---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 11/11/10: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:10 AM - Please Support The Lists... (Matt Dralle) 1. 06:45 AM - Re: brakes (flyv35b) 2. 06:54 AM - Re: see the crack? (flyv35b) 3. 07:04 AM - Re: brakes (John Brouillette) 4. 07:36 AM - Re: see the crack? (FLYaDIVE) 5. 10:08 AM - Re: see the crack? (Gary Vogt) 6. 10:10 AM - Re: see the crack? (Gary Vogt) 7. 10:44 AM - Re: see the crack? (flyv35b) 8. 10:51 AM - Re: see the crack? (Linn Walters) 9. 10:57 AM - Re: see the crack? (Dj Merrill) 10. 11:47 AM - Re: see the crack? (Gary Vogt) 11. 11:47 AM - Re: see the crack? (Linn Walters) 12. 11:58 AM - Re: see the crack? (Linn Walters) 13. 12:07 PM - Re: see the crack? (Dj Merrill) 14. 12:07 PM - Re: see the crack? (Garner Rice) 15. 12:21 PM - Re: see the crack? (Gary Vogt) 16. 12:28 PM - Re: see the crack? (Linn Walters) 17. 12:36 PM - Re: see the crack? (Linn Walters) 18. 12:38 PM - Re: see the crack? (Dj Merrill) 19. 12:44 PM - Re: see the crack? (Dj Merrill) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:10:49 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Please Support The Lists... Dear Listers, Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. There are some very nice incentive gifts to choose from as well! Please make your Contribution today at: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:03 AM PST US From: "flyv35b" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: brakes You're right, you just said you threw the part away. not the caliper. I guess I just assumed you threw the assembly away. Bad assumption. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Vogt To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 7:56 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: brakes you amaze me Cliff. No where in my email did I say I replaced the caliper. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: flyv35b To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 4:39:43 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: brakes Why not just replace the two pins? The caliper didn't look to bad if it were bead blasted and cleaned up. Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Vogt To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 3:31 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: brakes I replaced the part yesterday and threw the old one away. It looked like it had been there a while. If I were to guess, it looked like someone intensionally ground it down on a bench grinder. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: FLYaDIVE To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 2:19:04 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: brakes Tell ya what Gary... After you pull the part - If you want to send it to me I'll do an acid test to see if it was a defect in material or abrasion. Barry On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Gary Vogt wrote: Your guess is as good as mine. I looked at all related parts. No abnormal wear. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - From: Bob Hodo To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 5:35:15 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: brakes >>>OK, how would this happen?<<< Properly installed it could not have happened. Right? Sure looks like that ground away pin rode against a flat surface that was turning while it was still. How does it fit against the top of the brake rotor? Is that a match? How it got there and stayed there is quite a puzzle, just from memory of how the pieces fit. Bob Hodo _blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List tp://forums.matronics.com -- Barry "Chop'd Liver" href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.m atronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.co m">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:33 AM PST US From: "flyv35b" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? I guess you will be throwing the caliper away on this one! ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Vogt To: Teamgrumman List Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 8:27 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? Now, doesn't that just piss you off when that happens? ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:11 AM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: brakes From: John Brouillette Gary, the only time I have had the brake assembly get notched was with a wheel bearing that was failing. not the same type of aircraft it was on a Turbine Commander 840. Just maybe a similar thing is happening here John ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:32 AM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? From: FLYaDIVE What about welding the crack? If you can weld an engine case why not this? Barry *YOU ARE NOT * *WE ARE* *BECAUSE WE WERE * *YOU ARE* * * * * * * * * *The words to be inserted are VETERANS=92 and FREE* ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:08:28 AM PST US From: Gary Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? when I installed the fitting, I was thinking, "Something doesn't feel right. This isn't tightening like it should." It wasn't until after I got everything installed and was setting up to bleed the brakes that I noticed it. ________________________________ From: Rick Lindstrom Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 9:57:52 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? Yep. Those castings will only handle so much torque on the fitting. On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Gary Vogt wrote: Now, doesn't that just piss you off when that happens? > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:10:07 AM PST US From: Gary Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? I bled the brakes and there is no leak. This plane, the Project X plane, has no wheel pants yet. I'll keep an eye on it. ________________________________ From: flyv35b Sent: Thu, November 11, 2010 6:35:31 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? I guess you will be throwing the caliper away on this one! ----- Original Message ----- >From: Gary Vogt >To: Teamgrumman List >Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 8:27 PM >Subject: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? > > >Now, doesn't that just piss you off when that happens? > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:44:30 AM PST US From: "flyv35b" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? Probably, but would it be worth it? You could easily get $100 of labor invested with questionable outcome. Totally different cost level than an engine case. And it may have other issues such as corrosion pitting at the edge of the piston bore or wear where the brake lining bolts on. Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: FLYaDIVE To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 7:29 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? What about welding the crack? If you can weld an engine case why not this? Barry YOU ARE NOT WE ARE BECAUSE WE WERE YOU ARE The words to be inserted are VETERANS=92 and FREE ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:51:49 AM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? You probably won't see a leak until you get hard on the brakes a few times. Maybe heat affects it too. I've seen this fairly often on homebuilts ..... overtightening trying to get the fitting clocked like they want. They all leak. Linn On 11/11/2010 1:07 PM, Gary Vogt wrote: > I bled the brakes and there is no leak. This plane, the Project X > plane, has no wheel pants yet. I'll keep an eye on it. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* flyv35b > *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Thu, November 11, 2010 6:35:31 AM > *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? > > *I guess you will be throwing the caliper away on this one!* > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Gary Vogt > *To:* Teamgrumman List > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 10, 2010 8:27 PM > *Subject:* TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? > > Now, doesn't that just piss you off when that happens? > > * > > * > > * > > * ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:57:57 AM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? From: Dj Merrill On 11/11/2010 01:48 PM, Linn Walters wrote: > I've seen this fairly often on > homebuilts ..... overtightening trying to get the fitting clocked like > they want. They all leak. Out of curiousity (because I'm about to start on the brake system on my Sportsman), what is the proper way to tighten the fitting to get it oriented in the direction you want? Thanks, -Dj -- Dj Merrill - N1JOV Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/ Please use Netiquette Guidelines http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855 Kindly TRIM your email replies and post AFTER the relevant text ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:47:23 AM PST US From: Gary Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? This is the first caliper I've ever seen that was cracked. I have 3 more calipers, but, they are so corroded they are unusable. ________________________________ From: Linn Walters Sent: Thu, November 11, 2010 10:48:51 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? You probably won't see a leak until you get hard on the brakes a few times. Maybe heat affects it too. I've seen this fairly often on homebuilts ..... overtightening trying to get the fitting clocked like they want. They all leak. Linn On 11/11/2010 1:07 PM, Gary Vogt wrote: I bled the brakes and there is no leak. This plane, the Project X plane, has no wheel pants yet. I'll keep an eye on it. > > ________________________________ From: flyv35b >To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com >Sent: Thu, November 11, 2010 6:35:31 AM >Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? > > >I guess you will be throwing the caliper away on this one! >----- Original Message ----- >>From: Gary Vogt >>To: Teamgrumman List >>Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 8:27 PM >>Subject: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? >> >> >>Now, doesn't that just piss you off when that happens? >> > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:47:34 AM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? Proper???? I dunno, but I've used two approaches to clocking fittings. 1: I've used teflon paste if it's just a little loose. 2: I've used a tap to take a little more cut. I have ground the bottom of the tap so it can get further down into the hole. Linn On 11/11/2010 1:55 PM, Dj Merrill wrote: > --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Dj Merrill > > On 11/11/2010 01:48 PM, Linn Walters wrote: >> I've seen this fairly often on >> homebuilts ..... overtightening trying to get the fitting clocked like >> they want. They all leak. > > Out of curiousity (because I'm about to start on the brake system on my > Sportsman), what is the proper way to tighten the fitting to get it > oriented in the direction you want? > > Thanks, > > -Dj > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:58:28 AM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? Probably due to professionals rather than amateurs working on certified stuff. You won't believe what I see in the homebuilt arena. It's scary. I've turned down a fair amount of 'rides' because I feared it may be my last. The "just a little tighter (snap or crush)" and "that's close enough" syndromes are rampant. I've seen builders put huge lightening holes in spar webs because it would save weight. May not save the pilot though. Linn On 11/11/2010 2:44 PM, Gary Vogt wrote: > This is the first caliper I've ever seen that was cracked. I have 3 > more calipers, but, they are so corroded they are unusable. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Linn Walters > *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Thu, November 11, 2010 10:48:51 AM > *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? > > You probably won't see a leak until you get hard on the brakes a few > times. Maybe heat affects it too. I've seen this fairly often on > homebuilts ..... overtightening trying to get the fitting clocked like > they want. They all leak. > Linn > > On 11/11/2010 1:07 PM, Gary Vogt wrote: >> I bled the brakes and there is no leak. This plane, the Project X >> plane, has no wheel pants yet. I'll keep an eye on it. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From:* flyv35b >> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com >> *Sent:* Thu, November 11, 2010 6:35:31 AM >> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? >> >> *I guess you will be throwing the caliper away on this one!* >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Gary Vogt >> *To:* Teamgrumman List >> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 10, 2010 8:27 PM >> *Subject:* TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? >> >> Now, doesn't that just piss you off when that happens? >> >> * >> >> * >> >> * >> >> * > > * > > * > > * > > * ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:07:34 PM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? From: Dj Merrill On 11/11/2010 02:55 PM, Linn Walters wrote: > Probably due to professionals rather than amateurs working on certified > stuff. I have to agree with this statement. I've seen more than one A&P that scared the crap out of me at the quality of their work. I make it a point to ALWAYS personally go over any work done by someone else on the airplane, regardless of their paper credentials. After all, it is my *ss on the line, not theirs, if the plane has a failure in flight. -Dj -- Dj Merrill - N1JOV Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/ Please use Netiquette Guidelines http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855 Kindly TRIM your email replies and post AFTER the relevant text ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:07:47 PM PST US From: Garner Rice Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? Got stacks of them with cracks. Special price on those. Nuttin a little JB weld cont fix From: teamgrumman@yahoo.com Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? This is the first caliper I've ever seen that was cracked. I have 3 more c alipers=2C but=2C they are so corroded they are unusable. From: Linn Walters Sent: Thu=2C November 11=2C 2010 10:48:51 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? You probably won't see a leak until you get hard on the brakes a few times. Maybe heat affects it too. I've seen this fairly often on homebuilts ... .. overtightening trying to get the fitting clocked like they want. They a ll leak. Linn On 11/11/2010 1:07 PM=2C Gary Vogt wrote: I bled the brakes and there is no leak. This plane=2C the Project X plane =2C has no wheel pants yet. I'll keep an eye on it. From: flyv35b Sent: Thu=2C November 11=2C 2010 6:35:31 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? I guess you will be throwing the caliper away on this one! ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Vogt Sent: Wednesday=2C November 10=2C 2010 8:27 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? Now=2C doesn't that just piss you off when that happens? ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:21:51 PM PST US From: Gary Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? I don't know if there is a 'proper' way. Any lube, ( e.g., teflon tape, anti-seize, etc ) you put on the threads makes over tightening the fitting very easy. On-the-other-hand, not using a lube invites the possibility of galling the fitting. I use the teflon tape; no more than two wrap layers. Then, I tighten until it's snug then add enough to get my position correct. My gauge for tightness is just enough so that it requires a wrench to loosen. ________________________________ From: Dj Merrill Sent: Thu, November 11, 2010 10:55:33 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? On 11/11/2010 01:48 PM, Linn Walters wrote: > I've seen this fairly often on > homebuilts ..... overtightening trying to get the fitting clocked like > they want. They all leak. Out of curiousity (because I'm about to start on the brake system on my Sportsman), what is the proper way to tighten the fitting to get it oriented in the direction you want? Thanks, -Dj -- Dj Merrill - N1JOV Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/ Please use Netiquette Guidelines http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855 Kindly TRIM your email replies and post AFTER the relevant text ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:28:10 PM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? The first annual on my Grumman after I bought it caused me to start doing 'owner assisted annuals'. The A&P removed the B nut on the electric pump ..... I guess to clean the screen ..... and the nut went on finger tight. Having said that, I find most A&Ps to do professional and quality work, although some lack the craftmanship they should have. Doing all the wrenching myself leaves only me to blame when I don't hit the level of craftmanship I strive for. Back in '74 when I had my annual problem ..... I was pretty much ignorant about wrenching airplanes, but I had good mentors. Also, building airplanes always leaves you open to questions and criticism alike, but the knowledge I've gained over the years has helped keep my butt in one piece. Linn On 11/11/2010 3:05 PM, Dj Merrill wrote: > --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Dj Merrill > > On 11/11/2010 02:55 PM, Linn Walters wrote: >> Probably due to professionals rather than amateurs working on certified >> stuff. > I have to agree with this statement. I've seen more than one A&P that > scared the crap out of me at the quality of their work. I make it a > point to ALWAYS personally go over any work done by someone else on the > airplane, regardless of their paper credentials. After all, it is my > *ss on the line, not theirs, if the plane has a failure in flight. > > -Dj > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:36:51 PM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? I try and stay away from Teflon tape due to the chance of some 'strings' getting into the system. It's easy to keep the tape off the first couple of threads on initial insertion, but when you R&R a fitting, some of the tape gets left down inside the hole and gets pushed on through when you put the fitting back in. I've used tweezers to try and clean up the mess tape leaves behind. The Teflon paste will typically 'dissolve' in fluids so it doesn't pose near the possibility of getting where it causes problems. Linn On 11/11/2010 3:15 PM, Gary Vogt wrote: > I don't know if there is a 'proper' way. Any lube, ( e.g., teflon > tape, anti-seize, etc ) you put on the threads makes over tightening > the fitting very easy. On-the-other-hand, not using a lube invites > the possibility of galling the fitting. > > I use the teflon tape; no more than two wrap layers. Then, I tighten > until it's snug then add enough to get my position correct. My gauge > for tightness is just enough so that it requires a wrench to loosen. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Dj Merrill > *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Thu, November 11, 2010 10:55:33 AM > *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? > > > > > On 11/11/2010 01:48 PM, Linn Walters wrote: > > I've seen this fairly often on > > homebuilts ..... overtightening trying to get the fitting clocked like > > they want. They all leak. > > > Out of curiousity (because I'm about to start on the brake system > on my > Sportsman), what is the proper way to tighten the fitting to get it > oriented in the direction you want? > > Thanks, > > -Dj > > -- > Dj Merrill - N1JOV > Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/ > > Please use Netiquette Guidelines http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855 > Kindly TRIM your email replies and post AFTER > > * > > * ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:38:59 PM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? From: Dj Merrill On 11/11/2010 03:15 PM, Gary Vogt wrote: > > I use the teflon tape; no more than two wrap layers. Then, I tighten > until it's snug then add enough to get my position correct. My gauge > for tightness is just enough so that it requires a wrench to loosen. Sounds reasonable, thanks! That is essentially what I've done so far on the master cylinder fittings. No cracks so far! *grin* -Dj -- Dj Merrill - N1JOV Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/ Please use Netiquette Guidelines http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855 Kindly TRIM your email replies and post AFTER the relevant text ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:44:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: see the crack? From: Dj Merrill On 11/11/2010 03:30 PM, Linn Walters wrote: > I try and stay away from Teflon tape due to the chance of some 'strings' > getting into the system. I've been using a product called "Fuel Lube" (also called EZ Turn) instead of Teflon tape: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/ezturnlube.php -Dj -- Dj Merrill - N1JOV Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/ Please use Netiquette Guidelines http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855 Kindly TRIM your email replies and post AFTER the relevant text ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message teamgrumman-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.