Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:33 AM - List Fund Raiser & Some Very Nice Comments... (Matt Dralle)
1. 05:54 AM - Re: Re: Post Flight Question - Oil? (FLYaDIVE)
2. 01:10 PM - Re: Re: Post Flight Question - Oil? (Gary Vogt)
3. 01:50 PM - Re: Jamey, A36 stuff cheap? (James Courtney)
4. 05:48 PM - Re: Re: Post Flight Question - Oil? (Anthony Dymond)
5. 06:36 PM - Re: Re: Post Flight Question - Oil? (Gary Vogt)
6. 06:40 PM - Re: Re: Post Flight Question - Oil? (Linn Walters)
7. 08:51 PM - Re: Re: Post Flight Question - Oil? (Anthony Dymond)
8. 09:14 PM - Re: Re: Post Flight Question - Oil? (Linn Walters)
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| Subject: | List Fund Raiser & Some Very Nice Comments... |
Dear Listers,
I've been getting some really nice comments from Listers along with their List
Support Contributions. I've shared some of them below. Please read them over
and see what your fellow Listers think of the Lists and Forums.
Please make a Contribution today to support the continued upgrade and operation
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Thank you in advance for your generous support! It is very much appreciated!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
-------------------------------------------------------
You are providing a great service. Thanks so very much.
David L
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Jim S
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| Subject: | Re: Post Flight Question - Oil? |
Hello Im;
If you think about it, why should he pay attention - He is doing what he
feels is acceptable. Should the engine sit without doing ANYTHING? I woul
d
say that is even worse. Until they come up with nano-bots to travel around
inside the engine and report as to REALLY see what is going on you can ONLY
do what makes YOU feel good.
As for venting the steam? It would be a SIMPLE test to really say what is
in the steam. Get some LITMUS PAPER...
Go flying for say an hour.
Land and Open the Oil Cap and hold the Litmus Paper in the steam.
By doing a comparison with the Litmus Chart you will get an idea of the pH
of the steam. If it is just water you have to consider what will happen
when the engine cools and what the humidity of the day is. You may draw in
more humidity than you just let out.
And what is escaping is ONLY what is in the area of the tube and is light
enough to travel up the tube. Do you know what sits ABOVE the height of th
e
pick-up of the tube? The CAM.
The Internet has a very short memory. A short time back I posted a
lengthy synopsis of Corrosion & Rust on an engine that sat dissembled for
slightly over a year. NO PROTECTION other than a plastic sheet draped over
it.
Ya know how much Corrosion and rust was formed after a year?
NONE!
Now someone may say that was because of the oil that was being used. Such
as Exxon Elite.
The answer to that is: The plane was a RENTAL... Do you really think FOB's
use Exxon Elite on rentals?
Bottom Line: There is NO correct answer. You do what makes YOU feel good
and what fits your wallet.
If this fellow had the money he would or have the plane fly.
Barry* *
*YOU ARE NOT *
*WE ARE*
*BECAUSE WE WERE *
*YOU ARE*
* *
*The words to be inserted are VETERANS=92 and FREE*
*Thank you Veterans.*
*
*
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Post Flight Question - Oil? |
"does venting the steam from the filler cap at the end of a flight make any
sense? " it isn't likely going to have any effect. Odds are you'll be letting
cooler air in that holds more water.
________________________________
From: lmassaro <lmassaro@tac-eng.com>
Sent: Sun, November 14, 2010 7:36:25 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Post Flight Question - Oil?
I rarely fly less than 45 minutes at a clip for that very reason. Interesting
side note...
There is this old beater C152 tied down at my A/P. Never seen it fly, but have
seen the owner get in multiple times, start it up, run it for 20 minutes at
~1500 RPM while its tied down.
He thinks he's doing his engine good but in actuality is accelerating is
ultimate death. Told him this but he didn't seem to pay much attention to us.
So back to the original question...Given i fly long enough to get the oil hot
(assuming 190 at the temp probe is >220 at the heads/etc.), does venting the
steam from the filler cap at the end of a flight make any sense?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319369#319369
Message 3
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| Subject: | Jamey, A36 stuff cheap? |
Good for him - apparently it's an RV9A. If I lived somewhere where I could
keep more than one at reasonable cost I'd certainly consider it.
Still no Bonanza though eh Ned?
;)
Jamey
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyv35b
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jamey, A36 stuff cheap?
Jamey, Ned has more airplanes than Carter has liver pills! I think it's an
RV-6A that he owns. I'm sure he'll let you know for sure.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: James Courtney <mailto:jamey@jamescourtney.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 9:18 PM
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Jamey, A36 stuff cheap?
Thanks for thinking of me Ned but nothing I need there. My good friend
(also an A36 owner) is looking likely to purchase an RV-8 kit soon. I'm
looking forward to working on that with him. Neat airplanes those RVs and
boy did we have fun ogling the experimental avionics like the new Dynon
P/MFDs at AOPA Expo on Thursday. Damn shame we can't get that stuff for the
certified planes at a reasonable cost.
You also have some form of RV right?
Jamey
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of discover
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 3:12 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Jamey, A36 stuff cheap?
Hey Jamey,
I thought you might be4 interested in this A36 stuff
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=64434
Ned
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319293#319293
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| Subject: | Re: Post Flight Question - Oil? |
But is it really so bad to run it for 20 minutes?
He gets some moisture into the engine which is bad.
He circulates fresh oil through the engine which is better than letting
surfaces go dry.
He circulates fuel through the lines and carb which is good.
On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 7:36 PM, lmassaro <lmassaro@tac-eng.com> wrote:
>
> I rarely fly less than 45 minutes at a clip for that very reason.
> Interesting side note...
> There is this old beater C152 tied down at my A/P. Never seen it fly, but
> have seen the owner get in multiple times, start it up, run it for 20
> minutes at ~1500 RPM while its tied down.
> He thinks he's doing his engine good but in actuality is accelerating is
> ultimate death. Told him this but he didn't seem to pay much attention to
> us.
>
> So back to the original question...Given i fly long enough to get the oil
> hot (assuming 190 at the temp probe is >220 at the heads/etc.), does venting
> the steam from the filler cap at the end of a flight make any sense?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319369#319369
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Post Flight Question - Oil? |
moisture creates acids that attack the metal.
________________________________
From: Anthony Dymond <amdymond@gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 5:45:48 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Post Flight Question - Oil?
But is it really so bad to run it for 20 minutes?
He gets some moisture into the engine which is bad.
He circulates fresh oil through the engine which is better than letting surfaces
go dry.
He circulates fuel through the lines and carb which is good.
On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 7:36 PM, lmassaro <lmassaro@tac-eng.com> wrote:
>
>I rarely fly less than 45 minutes at a clip for that very reason. Interesting
>side note...
>There is this old beater C152 tied down at my A/P. Never seen it fly, but have
>seen the owner get in multiple times, start it up, run it for 20 minutes at
>~1500 RPM while its tied down.
>He thinks he's doing his engine good but in actuality is accelerating is
>ultimate death. Told him this but he didn't seem to pay much attention to us.
>
>So back to the original question...Given i fly long enough to get the oil hot
>(assuming 190 at the temp probe is >220 at the heads/etc.), does venting the
>steam from the filler cap at the end of a flight make any sense?
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319369#319369
>
>
>List Fund Raiser. Click on
>/" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>omebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>=============
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Post Flight Question - Oil? |
On 11/15/2010 8:45 PM, Anthony Dymond wrote:
> But is it really so bad to run it for 20 minutes?
Yes it is.
> He gets some moisture into the engine which is bad.
The byproduct of combustion isn't just moisture, it's also acids, which
will dissolve some of the metals that are vital for long engine life.
The reason you want an extended engine run at temp is to boil off the
acids that accumulate.
> He circulates fresh oil through the engine which is better than
> letting surfaces go dry.
This is true. However, the oil drains in between engine runs, leaving
the cam and cam followers exposed to the acidic environment. I'm no
chemist, but the acidic environment may serve to remove the oil from the
cam and cam followers which then leaves them open to rust. The rust
.... even small amounts will wear the cam and follower .... and the
engine efficiency goes down from there. A cam with no lobes ain't
good. I'm not sure why, but when the cam followers deteriorate they get
valleys etched in the face that look like filiform corrosion .... and
they have sharp edges. Maybe someone else can enlighten us why that is!!!
> He circulates fuel through the lines and carb which is good.
Again, true. But 100LL doesn't have the varnish problems that mogas
does ..... 100LL stays pretty volatile longer.
Linn
>
> On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 7:36 PM, lmassaro <lmassaro@tac-eng.com
> <mailto:lmassaro@tac-eng.com>> wrote:
>
> <lmassaro@tac-eng.com <mailto:lmassaro@tac-eng.com>>
>
> I rarely fly less than 45 minutes at a clip for that very reason.
> Interesting side note...
> There is this old beater C152 tied down at my A/P. Never seen it
> fly, but have seen the owner get in multiple times, start it up,
> run it for 20 minutes at ~1500 RPM while its tied down.
> He thinks he's doing his engine good but in actuality is
> accelerating is ultimate death. Told him this but he didn't seem
> to pay much attention to us.
>
> So back to the original question...Given i fly long enough to get
> the oil hot (assuming 190 at the temp probe is >220 at the
> heads/etc.), does venting the steam from the filler cap at the end
> of a flight make any sense?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319369#319369
>
>
> List Fund Raiser. Click on
> /" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> omebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
> http:/r generous support!
> e Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
> s.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> =============
>
>
> *
>
> *
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Post Flight Question - Oil? |
Thanks, this makes sense. Good reason to change the oil often.
If you were putting a plane up for the winter would the procedure be to
change the oil and run it just enough to circulate the oil? Doesn't water
also get into the fuel through condensation? This is an issue, particularly
in a boat where a fuel stabilizer is often used.
On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> On 11/15/2010 8:45 PM, Anthony Dymond wrote:
>
> But is it really so bad to run it for 20 minutes?
>
> Yes it is.
>
> He gets some moisture into the engine which is bad.
>
> The byproduct of combustion isn't just moisture, it's also acids, which
> will dissolve some of the metals that are vital for long engine life. The
> reason you want an extended engine run at temp is to boil off the acids that
> accumulate.
>
> He circulates fresh oil through the engine which is better than letting
> surfaces go dry.
>
> This is true. However, the oil drains in between engine runs, leaving the
> cam and cam followers exposed to the acidic environment. I'm no chemist,
> but the acidic environment may serve to remove the oil from the cam and cam
> followers which then leaves them open to rust. The rust .... even small
> amounts will wear the cam and follower .... and the engine efficiency goes
> down from there. A cam with no lobes ain't good. I'm not sure why, but
> when the cam followers deteriorate they get valleys etched in the face that
> look like filiform corrosion .... and they have sharp edges. Maybe someone
> else can enlighten us why that is!!!
>
> He circulates fuel through the lines and carb which is good.
>
> Again, true. But 100LL doesn't have the varnish problems that mogas does
> ..... 100LL stays pretty volatile longer.
> Linn
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 7:36 PM, lmassaro <lmassaro@tac-eng.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I rarely fly less than 45 minutes at a clip for that very reason.
>> Interesting side note...
>> There is this old beater C152 tied down at my A/P. Never seen it fly, but
>> have seen the owner get in multiple times, start it up, run it for 20
>> minutes at ~1500 RPM while its tied down.
>> He thinks he's doing his engine good but in actuality is accelerating is
>> ultimate death. Told him this but he didn't seem to pay much attention to
>> us.
>>
>> So back to the original question...Given i fly long enough to get the oil
>> hot (assuming 190 at the temp probe is >220 at the heads/etc.), does venting
>> the steam from the filler cap at the end of a flight make any sense?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319369#319369
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> List Fund Raiser. Click on
>> /" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> omebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
>> http:/r generous support!
>>
>> e Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
>> s.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List"
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>>
>> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> =============
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Post Flight Question - Oil? |
On 11/15/2010 11:47 PM, Anthony Dymond wrote:
> Thanks, this makes sense. Good reason to change the oil often.
> If you were putting a plane up for the winter would the procedure be
> to change the oil and run it just enough to circulate the oil?
> Doesn't water also get into the fuel through condensation? This is an
> issue, particularly in a boat where a fuel stabilizer is often used.
Lycoming has a service letter
http://www.lycoming.textron.com/support/publications/service-letters/pdfs/SL180B.pdf
which spells out what to do for long term storage.
Linn
>
> On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Linn Walters
> <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net <mailto:pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>> wrote:
>
> On 11/15/2010 8:45 PM, Anthony Dymond wrote:
>> But is it really so bad to run it for 20 minutes?
> Yes it is.
>> He gets some moisture into the engine which is bad.
> The byproduct of combustion isn't just moisture, it's also acids,
> which will dissolve some of the metals that are vital for long
> engine life. The reason you want an extended engine run at temp
> is to boil off the acids that accumulate.
>
>> He circulates fresh oil through the engine which is better than
>> letting surfaces go dry.
> This is true. However, the oil drains in between engine runs,
> leaving the cam and cam followers exposed to the acidic
> environment. I'm no chemist, but the acidic environment may serve
> to remove the oil from the cam and cam followers which then leaves
> them open to rust. The rust .... even small amounts will wear the
> cam and follower .... and the engine efficiency goes down from
> there. A cam with no lobes ain't good. I'm not sure why, but
> when the cam followers deteriorate they get valleys etched in the
> face that look like filiform corrosion .... and they have sharp
> edges. Maybe someone else can enlighten us why that is!!!
>
>> He circulates fuel through the lines and carb which is good.
> Again, true. But 100LL doesn't have the varnish problems that
> mogas does ..... 100LL stays pretty volatile longer.
> Linn
>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 7:36 PM, lmassaro <lmassaro@tac-eng.com
>> <mailto:lmassaro@tac-eng.com>> wrote:
>>
>> <lmassaro@tac-eng.com <mailto:lmassaro@tac-eng.com>>
>>
>> I rarely fly less than 45 minutes at a clip for that very
>> reason. Interesting side note...
>> There is this old beater C152 tied down at my A/P. Never
>> seen it fly, but have seen the owner get in multiple times,
>> start it up, run it for 20 minutes at ~1500 RPM while its
>> tied down.
>> He thinks he's doing his engine good but in actuality is
>> accelerating is ultimate death. Told him this but he didn't
>> seem to pay much attention to us.
>>
>> So back to the original question...Given i fly long enough to
>> get the oil hot (assuming 190 at the temp probe is >220 at
>> the heads/etc.), does venting the steam from the filler cap
>> at the end of a flight make any sense?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319369#319369
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> List Fund Raiser. Click on
>> /" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> <http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
>> omebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
>> <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
>> http:/r generous support!
>>
>> e Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
>> s.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List"
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
>> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>>
>> ronics.com/ <http://ronics.com/>"
>> target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> <http://forums.matronics.com/>
>> =============
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>
> *
>
> "_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> .com/" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
> ttp://forums.matronics.com
> *
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> *
>
> *
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