Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:49 AM - Pilot's Left Brake Problem (Tom Quinn)
2. 01:29 AM - Re: Pilot's Left Brake Problem (allenc3@bellsouth.net)
3. 08:37 AM - Re: Pilot's Left Brake Problem (flyv35b)
4. 09:43 AM - Re: Pilot's Left Brake Problem (FLYaDIVE)
5. 09:50 AM - Re: Pilot's Left Brake Problem (Tom Quinn)
6. 10:03 AM - Re: Pilot's Left Brake Problem (Tom Quinn)
7. 10:36 AM - Re: Pilot's Left Brake Problem (FLYaDIVE)
8. 11:14 AM - Re: Pilot's Left Brake Problem (flyv35b)
9. 11:39 AM - Re: Pilot's Left Brake Problem (Gary Vogt)
10. 11:53 AM - Pilot's Brake Problem (a story) (Gary Vogt)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Pilot's Left Brake Problem |
The left brake on the pilot's side is almost nonexistent. You step on the
left pedal and nothing, the co-pilot side is fine so that tells me that the
pads are probably okay. I know the Tiger has independent master cylinders
and I'm not sure if the fluid is low or if there is air in the system (not
sure how that would happen). I had the same problem a year or so ago but it
was the right pedal. I had the A&P look at it and they replaced EVERYTHING
to try and fix it until they screamed uncle and had the guy with Grumman
experience across the ramp come over and take a look at it. Any ideas?
Tom Quinn
249RR
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Pilot's Left Brake Problem |
Common problem. When brake hydraulic fluid gets low, pilot side is 1st to go
. Needs to be bled on pilot side. Then you need to find out why it's low....
.... Leak?
Claude Allen
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 28, 2010, at 3:46 AM, "Tom Quinn" <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com> wrote:
> The left brake on the pilot=99s side is almost nonexistent. You step
on the left pedal and nothing, the co-pilot side is fine so that tells me t
hat the pads are probably okay. I know the Tiger has independent master cyli
nders and I=99m not sure if the fluid is low or if there is air in the
system (not sure how that would happen). I had the same problem a year or s
o ago but it was the right pedal. I had the A&P look at it and they replaced
EVERYTHING to try and fix it until they screamed uncle and had the guy with
Grumman experience across the ramp come over and take a look at it. Any ide
as?
>
>
>
>
>
> Tom Quinn
>
> 249RR
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Pilot's Left Brake Problem |
Absolutely. If the pilot side doesn't work and the copilot's side does
then the fluid in the pilot side master cylinder is low, BUT the system
integrity is generally OK. As the linings wear the piston moves
outward and displaces more fluid and the fluid level gradually drops.
But there may be a leak that accelerates this. Most of the brakes still
have the original calipers and there is corrosion pitting in the bore
and as the O-ring moves outward it may get to an area that is pitted and
start seeping. Also, brake lines tend to crack at the B-nut at the
caliper and even completely brake off (I know from first hand experience
about this when landing at a one-way dirt strip with no go around).
Also, copilot master cylinders tend to seep around the shaft seal at the
top. Brake fluid level should be checked at the annual inspection and
fluid added (pumped up from the bottom).
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: allenc3@bellsouth.net
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 1:27 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Pilot's Left Brake Problem
Common problem. When brake hydraulic fluid gets low, pilot side is 1st
to go. Needs to be bled on pilot side. Then you need to find out why
it's low........ Leak?
Claude Allen
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 28, 2010, at 3:46 AM, "Tom Quinn" <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com> wrote:
The left brake on the pilot=99s side is almost nonexistent.
You step on the left pedal and nothing, the co-pilot side is fine so
that tells me that the pads are probably okay. I know the Tiger has
independent master cylinders and I=99m not sure if the fluid is
low or if there is air in the system (not sure how that would happen). I
had the same problem a year or so ago but it was the right pedal. I had
the A&P look at it and they replaced EVERYTHING to try and fix it until
they screamed uncle and had the guy with Grumman experience across the
ramp come over and take a look at it. Any ideas?
Tom Quinn
249RR
=========
http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
>www.buildersbooks.com
"http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
=========
t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
=========
ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
=========
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Pilot's Left Brake Problem |
REALLY?
Every Part Tom?
BRAKE DIAGNOSTICS
1 - Find which side is bad?
You already did - Pilot side left brake.
2 - Inspect the thickness of the brake pad.
You already did - You SAY it is OK.... Really... Did you see the low limit
marks?
3 - While you are on the ground LQQK at the PINS that the brake pad slide
on.
Are they smooth and clean? If not the pads could be getting cocked on an
angle and not sliding.
Clean them with RED ScotchBrite and rub on some GRAPHITE
or MOLYBDENUM DISULFIDE <-- DRY LUBE.
This helps them slide.
4 - BLEED the brakes from the Bottom - UP
I know you do not have the special No-Spill & Bleed fitting for the Master
Cylinders.
$7.00 a set with instructions plus shipping - Co$t $8.50
5 - ANY LEAKS?
6 - Now - if you bled the brakes and they work from the Co-Pilot side but
not from the Pilot Side...
Guess what... The problem is in the cylinder that is failing.
YES - You can rebuild it - BUT - More then likely it is a BENT PISTON SHAFT
.
That is difficult to see.
You will need a flat surface like a glass plate or a 'Surface Plate', to
roll the shaft on to see the bend. It does not take much. It might be
quicker to purchase a NEW Piston Shaft or a new Master Cylinder.
7 - Of course you said you replaced everything - 'O' rings - In the Master
Cylinder and on the Caliper Piston.
Did you clean EVERYTHING? A single hair across an 'O' ring will cause
problems.
8 - Now for some really CRAZY type problems:
Check the brake lines at all the bends. Especially by the but going to the
caliper. I had a CRAZY problem where ALL the preflight testing in the worl
d
did NOT show a crack. BUT, there was a very tinny small crack in the line
that opened with TEMPERATURE and pressure. There were NO LEAKS... VISIBLE.
Is showed one summer day when the owner did a landing and hit the brakes.
SMOKE was coming from the wheel. It LQQKed like the tire was smoking but
it was brake fluid spraying in a fine mist on the brake rotor. Purchased
NEW brake line fittings and a hunk of brake line - REPLACE about 16" and
problem was no more.
9 - Next CRAZY:
Take ALL the above information and apply it to the FITTING that screws into
the caliper.
YES - Cheap fix - REPLACE the Fitting.
10 - Next CRAZY:
Once again take ALL the information from #8 and apply it to the caliper
itself. They are ONLY a cast item and over tightening the Caliper Fitting
into the pipe thread hole can crack the caliper.
Remember Gary's crack? NO don't remember Gary's... Remember the crack in
the caliper Gary had?
:-)
11 - The LAST thing on the replacement list is to replace the Master
Cylinder Assembly - This may be cheaper than purchasing the parts and A&P
time to rebuild the old.
That all for now... GOOD LUCK.
Barry
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 3:46 AM, Tom Quinn <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com> wrote:
> The left brake on the pilot=92s side is almost nonexistent. You step on
the
> left pedal and nothing, the co-pilot side is fine so that tells me that t
he
> pads are probably okay. I know the Tiger has independent master cylinders
> and I=92m not sure if the fluid is low or if there is air in the system (
not
> sure how that would happen). I had the same problem a year or so ago but
it
> was the right pedal. I had the A&P look at it and they replaced EVERYTHIN
G
> to try and fix it until they screamed uncle and had the guy with Grumman
> experience across the ramp come over and take a look at it. Any ideas?
>
>
> Tom Quinn
>
> 249RR
>
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
============*
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Pilot's Left Brake Problem |
It=99s about time for the annual anyway. I know it=99s a
pain to get in under there to check the brake fluid level. I=99ll
get someone else to do it as I=99m getting way to old to contort
my body in that fashion. I can just see it now after they open my hanger
for 3 months nonpayment to find a dead guy upside down on the pilots
side!
Tom Quinn
President
TQI Solutions
A SDVOSB Corporation
Tel (757) 204-4618
Cell (757) 573-6818
Fax (757) 204-4628
quinn_tom@tqiinc.com
www.tqiinc.com
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
flyv35b
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Pilot's Left Brake Problem
Absolutely. If the pilot side doesn't work and the copilot's side does
then the fluid in the pilot side master cylinder is low, BUT the system
integrity is generally OK. As the linings wear the piston moves
outward and displaces more fluid and the fluid level gradually drops.
But there may be a leak that accelerates this. Most of the brakes still
have the original calipers and there is corrosion pitting in the bore
and as the O-ring moves outward it may get to an area that is pitted and
start seeping. Also, brake lines tend to crack at the B-nut at the
caliper and even completely brake off (I know from first hand experience
about this when landing at a one-way dirt strip with no go around).
Also, copilot master cylinders tend to seep around the shaft seal at the
top. Brake fluid level should be checked at the annual inspection and
fluid added (pumped up from the bottom).
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: allenc3@bellsouth.net
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 1:27 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Pilot's Left Brake Problem
Common problem. When brake hydraulic fluid gets low, pilot side is 1st
to go. Needs to be bled on pilot side. Then you need to find out why
it's low........ Leak?
Claude Allen
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 28, 2010, at 3:46 AM, "Tom Quinn" <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com> wrote:
The left brake on the pilot=99s side is almost nonexistent. You
step on the left pedal and nothing, the co-pilot side is fine so that
tells me that the pads are probably okay. I know the Tiger has
independent master cylinders and I=99m not sure if the fluid is
low or if there is air in the system (not sure how that would happen). I
had the same problem a year or so ago but it was the right pedal. I had
the A&P look at it and they replaced EVERYTHING to try and fix it until
they screamed uncle and had the guy with Grumman experience across the
ramp come over and take a look at it. Any ideas?
Tom Quinn
249RR
=========
http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
>www.buildersbooks.com
"http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
=========
t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
=========
ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
=========
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Pilot's Left Brake Problem |
Barry,
Good point, I should have been clearer. They replaced the pads
and bled the brakes over and over again. The Guy with the Grumman experience
came over took off with it and it worked fine after that. Yesterday I had
another pilot in the right seat and when we taxied I had no left brake and I
asked him to stomp on it. His side worked so well it almost launched me
through the windshield. I have a feeling I have a slow leak somewhere. It's
interesting that the right pilot side had the same problem a year and a half
ago. Thanks for the very detailed response below. I may tell the A&P just to
replace the master cylinder and be done with it.
Tom Quinn
249RR
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Pilot's Left Brake Problem
REALLY?
Every Part Tom?
BRAKE DIAGNOSTICS
1 - Find which side is bad?
You already did - Pilot side left brake.
2 - Inspect the thickness of the brake pad.
You already did - You SAY it is OK.... Really... Did you see the low limit
marks?
3 - While you are on the ground LQQK at the PINS that the brake pad slide
on.
Are they smooth and clean? If not the pads could be getting cocked on an
angle and not sliding.
Clean them with RED ScotchBrite and rub on some GRAPHITE or MOLYBDENUM
DISULFIDE <-- DRY LUBE.
This helps them slide.
4 - BLEED the brakes from the Bottom - UP
I know you do not have the special No-Spill & Bleed fitting for the Master
Cylinders.
$7.00 a set with instructions plus shipping - Co$t $8.50
5 - ANY LEAKS?
6 - Now - if you bled the brakes and they work from the Co-Pilot side but
not from the Pilot Side...
Guess what... The problem is in the cylinder that is failing.
YES - You can rebuild it - BUT - More then likely it is a BENT PISTON SHAFT.
That is difficult to see.
You will need a flat surface like a glass plate or a 'Surface Plate', to
roll the shaft on to see the bend. It does not take much. It might be
quicker to purchase a NEW Piston Shaft or a new Master Cylinder.
7 - Of course you said you replaced everything - 'O' rings - In the Master
Cylinder and on the Caliper Piston.
Did you clean EVERYTHING? A single hair across an 'O' ring will cause
problems.
8 - Now for some really CRAZY type problems:
Check the brake lines at all the bends. Especially by the but going to the
caliper. I had a CRAZY problem where ALL the preflight testing in the world
did NOT show a crack. BUT, there was a very tinny small crack in the line
that opened with TEMPERATURE and pressure. There were NO LEAKS... VISIBLE.
Is showed one summer day when the owner did a landing and hit the brakes.
SMOKE was coming from the wheel. It LQQKed like the tire was smoking but
it was brake fluid spraying in a fine mist on the brake rotor. Purchased
NEW brake line fittings and a hunk of brake line - REPLACE about 16" and
problem was no more.
9 - Next CRAZY:
Take ALL the above information and apply it to the FITTING that screws into
the caliper.
YES - Cheap fix - REPLACE the Fitting.
10 - Next CRAZY:
Once again take ALL the information from #8 and apply it to the caliper
itself. They are ONLY a cast item and over tightening the Caliper Fitting
into the pipe thread hole can crack the caliper.
Remember Gary's crack? NO don't remember Gary's... Remember the crack in
the caliper Gary had?
:-)
11 - The LAST thing on the replacement list is to replace the Master
Cylinder Assembly - This may be cheaper than purchasing the parts and A&P
time to rebuild the old.
That all for now... GOOD LUCK.
Barry
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 3:46 AM, Tom Quinn <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com> wrote:
The left brake on the pilot's side is almost nonexistent. You step on the
left pedal and nothing, the co-pilot side is fine so that tells me that the
pads are probably okay. I know the Tiger has independent master cylinders
and I'm not sure if the fluid is low or if there is air in the system (not
sure how that would happen). I had the same problem a year or so ago but it
was the right pedal. I had the A&P look at it and they replaced EVERYTHING
to try and fix it until they screamed uncle and had the guy with Grumman
experience across the ramp come over and take a look at it. Any ideas?
Tom Quinn
249RR
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Pilot's Left Brake Problem |
Tom:
Re-Read the outline. It is in sequential* *order of failure.
If you had a leak ONLY on the pilot side you should be seeing a puddle
somewhere.
All things point to the cylinder.
Barry
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Tom Quinn <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com> wrote:
> Barry,
>
>
> Good point, I should have been clearer. They replaced the pa
ds
> and bled the brakes over and over again. The Guy with the Grumman experie
nce
> came over took off with it and it worked fine after that. Yesterday I had
> another pilot in the right seat and when we taxied I had no left brake an
d I
> asked him to stomp on it. His side worked so well it almost launched me
> through the windshield. I have a feeling I have a slow leak somewhere. It
=92s
> interesting that the right pilot side had the same problem a year and a h
alf
> ago. Thanks for the very detailed response below. I may tell the A&P just
to
> replace the master cylinder and be done with it.
>
>
> Tom Quinn
>
> 249RR
>
>
> *From:* owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *FLYaDIVE
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 28, 2010 12:40 PM
>
> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Pilot's Left Brake Problem
>
>
> REALLY?
>
> Every Part Tom?
>
>
> BRAKE DIAGNOSTICS
>
> 1 - Find which side is bad?
>
> You already did - Pilot side left brake.
>
>
> 2 - Inspect the thickness of the brake pad.
>
> You already did - You SAY it is OK.... Really... Did you see the low limi
t
> marks?
>
>
> 3 - While you are on the ground LQQK at the PINS that the brake pad slide
> on.
>
> Are they smooth and clean? If not the pads could be getting cocked on an
> angle and not sliding.
>
> Clean them with RED ScotchBrite and rub on some GRAPHITE
> or MOLYBDENUM DISULFIDE <-- DRY LUBE.
>
> This helps them slide.
>
>
> 4 - BLEED the brakes from the Bottom - UP
>
> I know you do not have the special No-Spill & Bleed fitting for the Maste
r
> Cylinders.
>
> $7.00 a set with instructions plus shipping - Co$t $8.50
>
>
> 5 - ANY LEAKS?
>
>
> 6 - Now - if you bled the brakes and they work from the Co-Pilot side but
> not from the Pilot Side...
>
> Guess what... The problem is in the cylinder that is failing.
>
> YES - You can rebuild it - BUT - More then likely it is a BENT PISTON
> SHAFT. That is difficult to see.
>
> You will need a flat surface like a glass plate or a 'Surface Plate', to
> roll the shaft on to see the bend. It does not take much. It might be
> quicker to purchase a NEW Piston Shaft or a new Master Cylinder.
>
>
> 7 - Of course you said you replaced everything - 'O' rings - In the Mast
er
> Cylinder and on the Caliper Piston.
>
> Did you clean EVERYTHING? A single hair across an 'O' ring will cause
> problems.
>
>
> 8 - Now for some really CRAZY type problems:
>
> Check the brake lines at all the bends. Especially by the but going to t
he
> caliper. I had a CRAZY problem where ALL the preflight testing in the wo
rld
> did NOT show a crack. BUT, there was a very tinny small crack in the lin
e
> that opened with TEMPERATURE and pressure. There were NO LEAKS... VISIBL
E.
> Is showed one summer day when the owner did a landing and hit the brakes
.
> SMOKE was coming from the wheel. It LQQKed like the tire was smoking b
ut
> it was brake fluid spraying in a fine mist on the brake rotor. Purchased
> NEW brake line fittings and a hunk of brake line - REPLACE about 16" and
> problem was no more.
>
>
> 9 - Next CRAZY:
>
> Take ALL the above information and apply it to the FITTING that screws in
to
> the caliper.
>
> YES - Cheap fix - REPLACE the Fitting.
>
>
> 10 - Next CRAZY:
>
> Once again take ALL the information from #8 and apply it to the caliper
> itself. They are ONLY a cast item and over tightening the Caliper Fittin
g
> into the pipe thread hole can crack the caliper.
>
> Remember Gary's crack? NO don't remember Gary's... Remember the crack i
n
> the caliper Gary had?
>
> :-)
>
>
> 11 - The LAST thing on the replacement list is to replace the Master
> Cylinder Assembly - This may be cheaper than purchasing the parts and A&P
> time to rebuild the old.
>
>
> That all for now... GOOD LUCK.
>
>
> Barry
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 3:46 AM, Tom Quinn <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com> wrote:
>
> The left brake on the pilot=92s side is almost nonexistent. You step on t
he
> left pedal and nothing, the co-pilot side is fine so that tells me that t
he
> pads are probably okay. I know the Tiger has independent master cylinders
> and I=92m not sure if the fluid is low or if there is air in the system (
not
> sure how that would happen). I had the same problem a year or so ago but
it
> was the right pedal. I had the A&P look at it and they replaced EVERYTHIN
G
> to try and fix it until they screamed uncle and had the guy with Grumman
> experience across the ramp come over and take a look at it. Any ideas?
>
>
> Tom Quinn
>
> 249RR
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *_blank">www.aeroelectric.com*
>
> *.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com*
>
> *="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com*
>
> *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> *st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Lis
t*
>
> *tp://forums.matronics.com*
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *www.aeroelectric.com*
>
> *www.buildersbooks.com*
>
> *www.homebuilthelp.com*
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Pilot's Left Brake Problem |
Tom, it's not all that hard to do. Here is how I do it:
1. Stand on the RH wing walk and then plop your but down in the
co-pilot seat with you legs hanging over the rail.
2. Lean sideways over the consol with your shoulder on the LH floor.
3. Reach over the pilots master cylinders with your right arm and
unscrew the plastic square cap plugs from the top of the master
cylinder. You don't need to see them just do it by feel.
4. Insert a plastic spray tube from one of your aerosol cans down in to
the MC. Put your thumb and forefinger at the top of the MC hole and
pull the tube out. Look at the level and you now know how much fluid is
in there and whether or not you need to add fluid. The fluid should be
down from the top about 1/4" from where your fingers when it is full.
5. Bleed and fill the brakes from the bottom up. Once you've done it a
few dozen times you will know pretty close just how many pumps from your
oil pumper can it takes to fill an empty cylinder and you can get it
pretty close without help and making a mess pumping to much out the top.
There are other ways but I won't go in to that.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Quinn
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 9:48 AM
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Pilot's Left Brake Problem
It=99s about time for the annual anyway. I know it=99s a
pain to get in under there to check the brake fluid level. I=99ll
get someone else to do it as I=99m getting way to old to contort
my body in that fashion. I can just see it now after they open my hanger
for 3 months nonpayment to find a dead guy upside down on the pilots
side!
Tom Quinn
President
TQI Solutions
A SDVOSB Corporation
Tel (757) 204-4618
Cell (757) 573-6818
Fax (757) 204-4628
quinn_tom@tqiinc.com
www.tqiinc.com
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
flyv35b
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 11:35 AM
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Pilot's Left Brake Problem
Absolutely. If the pilot side doesn't work and the copilot's side
does then the fluid in the pilot side master cylinder is low, BUT the
system integrity is generally OK. As the linings wear the piston moves
outward and displaces more fluid and the fluid level gradually drops.
But there may be a leak that accelerates this. Most of the brakes still
have the original calipers and there is corrosion pitting in the bore
and as the O-ring moves outward it may get to an area that is pitted and
start seeping. Also, brake lines tend to crack at the B-nut at the
caliper and even completely brake off (I know from first hand experience
about this when landing at a one-way dirt strip with no go around).
Also, copilot master cylinders tend to seep around the shaft seal at the
top. Brake fluid level should be checked at the annual inspection and
fluid added (pumped up from the bottom).
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: allenc3@bellsouth.net
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 1:27 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Pilot's Left Brake Problem
Common problem. When brake hydraulic fluid gets low, pilot side is
1st to go. Needs to be bled on pilot side. Then you need to find out why
it's low........ Leak?
Claude Allen
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 28, 2010, at 3:46 AM, "Tom Quinn" <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
wrote:
The left brake on the pilot=99s side is almost nonexistent.
You step on the left pedal and nothing, the co-pilot side is fine so
that tells me that the pads are probably okay. I know the Tiger has
independent master cylinders and I=99m not sure if the fluid is
low or if there is air in the system (not sure how that would happen). I
had the same problem a year or so ago but it was the right pedal. I had
the A&P look at it and they replaced EVERYTHING to try and fix it until
they screamed uncle and had the guy with Grumman experience across the
ramp come over and take a look at it. Any ideas?
Tom Quinn
249RR
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ic.com>www.buildersbooks.com"http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilth
elp.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution==========t">http://www.matronics.com/Navig
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lp.com">www.homebuilthelp.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contributio
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eamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref=
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Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Pilot's Left Brake Problem |
When you say, everything was replaced, can you give a list? =0A=0Aodds are
your Master cylinder is AFU. =0A=0AIf it's bled correctly, even if it's n
ot that good, it'll work enough to get by =0Afor a while.=0A=0A=0A=0A______
__________________________=0AFrom: Tom Quinn <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>=0ATo: t
eamgrumman-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sun, November 28, 2010 12:46:03 AM=0A
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Pilot's Left Brake Problem=0A=0A =0AThe left bra
ke on the pilot=99s side is almost nonexistent. You step on the left
=0Apedal and nothing, the co-pilot side is fine so that tells me that the p
ads are =0Aprobably okay. I know the Tiger has independent master cylinders
and I=99m not =0Asure if the fluid is low or if there is air in the
system (not sure how that =0Awould happen). I had the same problem a year o
r so ago but it was the right =0Apedal. I had the A&P look at it and they r
eplaced EVERYTHING to try and fix it =0Auntil they screamed uncle and had t
he guy with Grumman experience across the =0Aramp come over and take a look
== =0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 10
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| Subject: | Pilot's Brake Problem (a story) |
(here's another story)
About 12 years ago, I bought a Cheetah that has been sitting at Van Nuys airport
for a number of years. Tanks were dry. No brakes on the pilots side. Windows
so foggy you couldn't see out. 1400 TTAF. It was such a good deal, I couldn't
pass it up.
Joe Morales drove me to the airport. We brought a battery with us.
We put the battery in, checked it, engine cranked. We then dragged the Cheetah
50 yards to the fuel island. Put 10 gallons in each side. Fuel ran out about
as fast as I put it in. I started the engine. Started pretty quickly too. Joe
was sitting next to me, holding the brakes. I had thought about flying from the
right seat since I had brakes on the right side, but decided against it. Joe is
an A&P/IA also. He'd go along with me. We taxied to 16 Right, quick mag check,
and took off for the flight to Lancaster.
About 15 miles out of Lancaster, ran out of fuel on the right tank. Switched to
the left tank. Landed at Fox (KWJF) and taxied to my hangar. 20 minute flight.
Jumped into my first Cheetah, flew to Van Nuys, dropped off Joe, flew home. Joe
showed up about 30 minutes later.
All in all, a very interesting day.
-------
The rest of the story. I actually sold the plane 2 weeks prior to buying it.
I never owned the plane . . . . really. I had the Bill of Sale made out to the
new owner.
I replaced the windshield, resealed the tanks, and put new "O" rings in the
brakes. The buyer paid me to fix the plane, plus all of the brokering type
paperwork, plus annual inspection, plus some profit on the plane itself. I
made $20,000 in a month.
I bought the plane with a credit card.
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