---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 11/28/10: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:49 AM - Pilot's Left Brake Problem (Tom Quinn) 2. 01:29 AM - Re: Pilot's Left Brake Problem (allenc3@bellsouth.net) 3. 08:37 AM - Re: Pilot's Left Brake Problem (flyv35b) 4. 09:43 AM - Re: Pilot's Left Brake Problem (FLYaDIVE) 5. 09:50 AM - Re: Pilot's Left Brake Problem (Tom Quinn) 6. 10:03 AM - Re: Pilot's Left Brake Problem (Tom Quinn) 7. 10:36 AM - Re: Pilot's Left Brake Problem (FLYaDIVE) 8. 11:14 AM - Re: Pilot's Left Brake Problem (flyv35b) 9. 11:39 AM - Re: Pilot's Left Brake Problem (Gary Vogt) 10. 11:53 AM - Pilot's Brake Problem (a story) (Gary Vogt) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:49:54 AM PST US From: "Tom Quinn" Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Pilot's Left Brake Problem The left brake on the pilot's side is almost nonexistent. You step on the left pedal and nothing, the co-pilot side is fine so that tells me that the pads are probably okay. I know the Tiger has independent master cylinders and I'm not sure if the fluid is low or if there is air in the system (not sure how that would happen). I had the same problem a year or so ago but it was the right pedal. I had the A&P look at it and they replaced EVERYTHING to try and fix it until they screamed uncle and had the guy with Grumman experience across the ramp come over and take a look at it. Any ideas? Tom Quinn 249RR ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:29:49 AM PST US From: "allenc3@bellsouth.net" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Pilot's Left Brake Problem Common problem. When brake hydraulic fluid gets low, pilot side is 1st to go . Needs to be bled on pilot side. Then you need to find out why it's low.... .... Leak? Claude Allen Sent from my iPad On Nov 28, 2010, at 3:46 AM, "Tom Quinn" wrote: > The left brake on the pilot=99s side is almost nonexistent. You step on the left pedal and nothing, the co-pilot side is fine so that tells me t hat the pads are probably okay. I know the Tiger has independent master cyli nders and I=99m not sure if the fluid is low or if there is air in the system (not sure how that would happen). I had the same problem a year or s o ago but it was the right pedal. I had the A&P look at it and they replaced EVERYTHING to try and fix it until they screamed uncle and had the guy with Grumman experience across the ramp come over and take a look at it. Any ide as? > > > > > > Tom Quinn > > 249RR > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:30 AM PST US From: "flyv35b" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Pilot's Left Brake Problem Absolutely. If the pilot side doesn't work and the copilot's side does then the fluid in the pilot side master cylinder is low, BUT the system integrity is generally OK. As the linings wear the piston moves outward and displaces more fluid and the fluid level gradually drops. But there may be a leak that accelerates this. Most of the brakes still have the original calipers and there is corrosion pitting in the bore and as the O-ring moves outward it may get to an area that is pitted and start seeping. Also, brake lines tend to crack at the B-nut at the caliper and even completely brake off (I know from first hand experience about this when landing at a one-way dirt strip with no go around). Also, copilot master cylinders tend to seep around the shaft seal at the top. Brake fluid level should be checked at the annual inspection and fluid added (pumped up from the bottom). Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: allenc3@bellsouth.net To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 1:27 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Pilot's Left Brake Problem Common problem. When brake hydraulic fluid gets low, pilot side is 1st to go. Needs to be bled on pilot side. Then you need to find out why it's low........ Leak? Claude Allen Sent from my iPad On Nov 28, 2010, at 3:46 AM, "Tom Quinn" wrote: The left brake on the pilot=99s side is almost nonexistent. You step on the left pedal and nothing, the co-pilot side is fine so that tells me that the pads are probably okay. I know the Tiger has independent master cylinders and I=99m not sure if the fluid is low or if there is air in the system (not sure how that would happen). I had the same problem a year or so ago but it was the right pedal. I had the A&P look at it and they replaced EVERYTHING to try and fix it until they screamed uncle and had the guy with Grumman experience across the ramp come over and take a look at it. Any ideas? Tom Quinn 249RR ========= http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com >www.buildersbooks.com "http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribut ion ========= t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List ========= ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ========= ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:43:09 AM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Pilot's Left Brake Problem From: FLYaDIVE REALLY? Every Part Tom? BRAKE DIAGNOSTICS 1 - Find which side is bad? You already did - Pilot side left brake. 2 - Inspect the thickness of the brake pad. You already did - You SAY it is OK.... Really... Did you see the low limit marks? 3 - While you are on the ground LQQK at the PINS that the brake pad slide on. Are they smooth and clean? If not the pads could be getting cocked on an angle and not sliding. Clean them with RED ScotchBrite and rub on some GRAPHITE or MOLYBDENUM DISULFIDE <-- DRY LUBE. This helps them slide. 4 - BLEED the brakes from the Bottom - UP I know you do not have the special No-Spill & Bleed fitting for the Master Cylinders. $7.00 a set with instructions plus shipping - Co$t $8.50 5 - ANY LEAKS? 6 - Now - if you bled the brakes and they work from the Co-Pilot side but not from the Pilot Side... Guess what... The problem is in the cylinder that is failing. YES - You can rebuild it - BUT - More then likely it is a BENT PISTON SHAFT .. That is difficult to see. You will need a flat surface like a glass plate or a 'Surface Plate', to roll the shaft on to see the bend. It does not take much. It might be quicker to purchase a NEW Piston Shaft or a new Master Cylinder. 7 - Of course you said you replaced everything - 'O' rings - In the Master Cylinder and on the Caliper Piston. Did you clean EVERYTHING? A single hair across an 'O' ring will cause problems. 8 - Now for some really CRAZY type problems: Check the brake lines at all the bends. Especially by the but going to the caliper. I had a CRAZY problem where ALL the preflight testing in the worl d did NOT show a crack. BUT, there was a very tinny small crack in the line that opened with TEMPERATURE and pressure. There were NO LEAKS... VISIBLE. Is showed one summer day when the owner did a landing and hit the brakes. SMOKE was coming from the wheel. It LQQKed like the tire was smoking but it was brake fluid spraying in a fine mist on the brake rotor. Purchased NEW brake line fittings and a hunk of brake line - REPLACE about 16" and problem was no more. 9 - Next CRAZY: Take ALL the above information and apply it to the FITTING that screws into the caliper. YES - Cheap fix - REPLACE the Fitting. 10 - Next CRAZY: Once again take ALL the information from #8 and apply it to the caliper itself. They are ONLY a cast item and over tightening the Caliper Fitting into the pipe thread hole can crack the caliper. Remember Gary's crack? NO don't remember Gary's... Remember the crack in the caliper Gary had? :-) 11 - The LAST thing on the replacement list is to replace the Master Cylinder Assembly - This may be cheaper than purchasing the parts and A&P time to rebuild the old. That all for now... GOOD LUCK. Barry On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 3:46 AM, Tom Quinn wrote: > The left brake on the pilot=92s side is almost nonexistent. You step on the > left pedal and nothing, the co-pilot side is fine so that tells me that t he > pads are probably okay. I know the Tiger has independent master cylinders > and I=92m not sure if the fluid is low or if there is air in the system ( not > sure how that would happen). I had the same problem a year or so ago but it > was the right pedal. I had the A&P look at it and they replaced EVERYTHIN G > to try and fix it until they screamed uncle and had the guy with Grumman > experience across the ramp come over and take a look at it. Any ideas? > > > Tom Quinn > > 249RR > > > * > =========== =========== =========== ============* > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:50:48 AM PST US From: "Tom Quinn" Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Pilot's Left Brake Problem It=99s about time for the annual anyway. I know it=99s a pain to get in under there to check the brake fluid level. I=99ll get someone else to do it as I=99m getting way to old to contort my body in that fashion. I can just see it now after they open my hanger for 3 months nonpayment to find a dead guy upside down on the pilots side! Tom Quinn President TQI Solutions A SDVOSB Corporation Tel (757) 204-4618 Cell (757) 573-6818 Fax (757) 204-4628 quinn_tom@tqiinc.com www.tqiinc.com From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyv35b Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 11:35 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Pilot's Left Brake Problem Absolutely. If the pilot side doesn't work and the copilot's side does then the fluid in the pilot side master cylinder is low, BUT the system integrity is generally OK. As the linings wear the piston moves outward and displaces more fluid and the fluid level gradually drops. But there may be a leak that accelerates this. Most of the brakes still have the original calipers and there is corrosion pitting in the bore and as the O-ring moves outward it may get to an area that is pitted and start seeping. Also, brake lines tend to crack at the B-nut at the caliper and even completely brake off (I know from first hand experience about this when landing at a one-way dirt strip with no go around). Also, copilot master cylinders tend to seep around the shaft seal at the top. Brake fluid level should be checked at the annual inspection and fluid added (pumped up from the bottom). Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: allenc3@bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 1:27 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Pilot's Left Brake Problem Common problem. When brake hydraulic fluid gets low, pilot side is 1st to go. Needs to be bled on pilot side. Then you need to find out why it's low........ Leak? Claude Allen Sent from my iPad On Nov 28, 2010, at 3:46 AM, "Tom Quinn" wrote: The left brake on the pilot=99s side is almost nonexistent. You step on the left pedal and nothing, the co-pilot side is fine so that tells me that the pads are probably okay. I know the Tiger has independent master cylinders and I=99m not sure if the fluid is low or if there is air in the system (not sure how that would happen). I had the same problem a year or so ago but it was the right pedal. I had the A&P look at it and they replaced EVERYTHING to try and fix it until they screamed uncle and had the guy with Grumman experience across the ramp come over and take a look at it. Any ideas? Tom Quinn 249RR ========= http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com >www.buildersbooks.com "http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribut ion ========= t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List ========= ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ========= href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.m atronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:03:38 AM PST US From: "Tom Quinn" Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Pilot's Left Brake Problem Barry, Good point, I should have been clearer. They replaced the pads and bled the brakes over and over again. The Guy with the Grumman experience came over took off with it and it worked fine after that. Yesterday I had another pilot in the right seat and when we taxied I had no left brake and I asked him to stomp on it. His side worked so well it almost launched me through the windshield. I have a feeling I have a slow leak somewhere. It's interesting that the right pilot side had the same problem a year and a half ago. Thanks for the very detailed response below. I may tell the A&P just to replace the master cylinder and be done with it. Tom Quinn 249RR From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 12:40 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Pilot's Left Brake Problem REALLY? Every Part Tom? BRAKE DIAGNOSTICS 1 - Find which side is bad? You already did - Pilot side left brake. 2 - Inspect the thickness of the brake pad. You already did - You SAY it is OK.... Really... Did you see the low limit marks? 3 - While you are on the ground LQQK at the PINS that the brake pad slide on. Are they smooth and clean? If not the pads could be getting cocked on an angle and not sliding. Clean them with RED ScotchBrite and rub on some GRAPHITE or MOLYBDENUM DISULFIDE <-- DRY LUBE. This helps them slide. 4 - BLEED the brakes from the Bottom - UP I know you do not have the special No-Spill & Bleed fitting for the Master Cylinders. $7.00 a set with instructions plus shipping - Co$t $8.50 5 - ANY LEAKS? 6 - Now - if you bled the brakes and they work from the Co-Pilot side but not from the Pilot Side... Guess what... The problem is in the cylinder that is failing. YES - You can rebuild it - BUT - More then likely it is a BENT PISTON SHAFT. That is difficult to see. You will need a flat surface like a glass plate or a 'Surface Plate', to roll the shaft on to see the bend. It does not take much. It might be quicker to purchase a NEW Piston Shaft or a new Master Cylinder. 7 - Of course you said you replaced everything - 'O' rings - In the Master Cylinder and on the Caliper Piston. Did you clean EVERYTHING? A single hair across an 'O' ring will cause problems. 8 - Now for some really CRAZY type problems: Check the brake lines at all the bends. Especially by the but going to the caliper. I had a CRAZY problem where ALL the preflight testing in the world did NOT show a crack. BUT, there was a very tinny small crack in the line that opened with TEMPERATURE and pressure. There were NO LEAKS... VISIBLE. Is showed one summer day when the owner did a landing and hit the brakes. SMOKE was coming from the wheel. It LQQKed like the tire was smoking but it was brake fluid spraying in a fine mist on the brake rotor. Purchased NEW brake line fittings and a hunk of brake line - REPLACE about 16" and problem was no more. 9 - Next CRAZY: Take ALL the above information and apply it to the FITTING that screws into the caliper. YES - Cheap fix - REPLACE the Fitting. 10 - Next CRAZY: Once again take ALL the information from #8 and apply it to the caliper itself. They are ONLY a cast item and over tightening the Caliper Fitting into the pipe thread hole can crack the caliper. Remember Gary's crack? NO don't remember Gary's... Remember the crack in the caliper Gary had? :-) 11 - The LAST thing on the replacement list is to replace the Master Cylinder Assembly - This may be cheaper than purchasing the parts and A&P time to rebuild the old. That all for now... GOOD LUCK. Barry On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 3:46 AM, Tom Quinn wrote: The left brake on the pilot's side is almost nonexistent. You step on the left pedal and nothing, the co-pilot side is fine so that tells me that the pads are probably okay. I know the Tiger has independent master cylinders and I'm not sure if the fluid is low or if there is air in the system (not sure how that would happen). I had the same problem a year or so ago but it was the right pedal. I had the A&P look at it and they replaced EVERYTHING to try and fix it until they screamed uncle and had the guy with Grumman experience across the ramp come over and take a look at it. Any ideas? Tom Quinn 249RR _blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List tp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:36:05 AM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Pilot's Left Brake Problem From: FLYaDIVE Tom: Re-Read the outline. It is in sequential* *order of failure. If you had a leak ONLY on the pilot side you should be seeing a puddle somewhere. All things point to the cylinder. Barry On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Tom Quinn wrote: > Barry, > > > Good point, I should have been clearer. They replaced the pa ds > and bled the brakes over and over again. The Guy with the Grumman experie nce > came over took off with it and it worked fine after that. Yesterday I had > another pilot in the right seat and when we taxied I had no left brake an d I > asked him to stomp on it. His side worked so well it almost launched me > through the windshield. I have a feeling I have a slow leak somewhere. It =92s > interesting that the right pilot side had the same problem a year and a h alf > ago. Thanks for the very detailed response below. I may tell the A&P just to > replace the master cylinder and be done with it. > > > Tom Quinn > > 249RR > > > *From:* owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *FLYaDIVE > *Sent:* Sunday, November 28, 2010 12:40 PM > > *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Pilot's Left Brake Problem > > > REALLY? > > Every Part Tom? > > > BRAKE DIAGNOSTICS > > 1 - Find which side is bad? > > You already did - Pilot side left brake. > > > 2 - Inspect the thickness of the brake pad. > > You already did - You SAY it is OK.... Really... Did you see the low limi t > marks? > > > 3 - While you are on the ground LQQK at the PINS that the brake pad slide > on. > > Are they smooth and clean? If not the pads could be getting cocked on an > angle and not sliding. > > Clean them with RED ScotchBrite and rub on some GRAPHITE > or MOLYBDENUM DISULFIDE <-- DRY LUBE. > > This helps them slide. > > > 4 - BLEED the brakes from the Bottom - UP > > I know you do not have the special No-Spill & Bleed fitting for the Maste r > Cylinders. > > $7.00 a set with instructions plus shipping - Co$t $8.50 > > > 5 - ANY LEAKS? > > > 6 - Now - if you bled the brakes and they work from the Co-Pilot side but > not from the Pilot Side... > > Guess what... The problem is in the cylinder that is failing. > > YES - You can rebuild it - BUT - More then likely it is a BENT PISTON > SHAFT. That is difficult to see. > > You will need a flat surface like a glass plate or a 'Surface Plate', to > roll the shaft on to see the bend. It does not take much. It might be > quicker to purchase a NEW Piston Shaft or a new Master Cylinder. > > > 7 - Of course you said you replaced everything - 'O' rings - In the Mast er > Cylinder and on the Caliper Piston. > > Did you clean EVERYTHING? A single hair across an 'O' ring will cause > problems. > > > 8 - Now for some really CRAZY type problems: > > Check the brake lines at all the bends. Especially by the but going to t he > caliper. I had a CRAZY problem where ALL the preflight testing in the wo rld > did NOT show a crack. BUT, there was a very tinny small crack in the lin e > that opened with TEMPERATURE and pressure. There were NO LEAKS... VISIBL E. > Is showed one summer day when the owner did a landing and hit the brakes .. > SMOKE was coming from the wheel. It LQQKed like the tire was smoking b ut > it was brake fluid spraying in a fine mist on the brake rotor. Purchased > NEW brake line fittings and a hunk of brake line - REPLACE about 16" and > problem was no more. > > > 9 - Next CRAZY: > > Take ALL the above information and apply it to the FITTING that screws in to > the caliper. > > YES - Cheap fix - REPLACE the Fitting. > > > 10 - Next CRAZY: > > Once again take ALL the information from #8 and apply it to the caliper > itself. They are ONLY a cast item and over tightening the Caliper Fittin g > into the pipe thread hole can crack the caliper. > > Remember Gary's crack? NO don't remember Gary's... Remember the crack i n > the caliper Gary had? > > :-) > > > 11 - The LAST thing on the replacement list is to replace the Master > Cylinder Assembly - This may be cheaper than purchasing the parts and A&P > time to rebuild the old. > > > That all for now... GOOD LUCK. > > > Barry > > > On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 3:46 AM, Tom Quinn wrote: > > The left brake on the pilot=92s side is almost nonexistent. You step on t he > left pedal and nothing, the co-pilot side is fine so that tells me that t he > pads are probably okay. I know the Tiger has independent master cylinders > and I=92m not sure if the fluid is low or if there is air in the system ( not > sure how that would happen). I had the same problem a year or so ago but it > was the right pedal. I had the A&P look at it and they replaced EVERYTHIN G > to try and fix it until they screamed uncle and had the guy with Grumman > experience across the ramp come over and take a look at it. Any ideas? > > > Tom Quinn > > 249RR > > > * * > > * * > > *_blank">www.aeroelectric.com* > > *.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com* > > *="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com* > > *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > *st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Lis t* > > *tp://forums.matronics.com* > > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *www.aeroelectric.com* > > *www.buildersbooks.com* > > *www.homebuilthelp.com* > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:14:59 AM PST US From: "flyv35b" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Pilot's Left Brake Problem Tom, it's not all that hard to do. Here is how I do it: 1. Stand on the RH wing walk and then plop your but down in the co-pilot seat with you legs hanging over the rail. 2. Lean sideways over the consol with your shoulder on the LH floor. 3. Reach over the pilots master cylinders with your right arm and unscrew the plastic square cap plugs from the top of the master cylinder. You don't need to see them just do it by feel. 4. Insert a plastic spray tube from one of your aerosol cans down in to the MC. Put your thumb and forefinger at the top of the MC hole and pull the tube out. Look at the level and you now know how much fluid is in there and whether or not you need to add fluid. The fluid should be down from the top about 1/4" from where your fingers when it is full. 5. Bleed and fill the brakes from the bottom up. Once you've done it a few dozen times you will know pretty close just how many pumps from your oil pumper can it takes to fill an empty cylinder and you can get it pretty close without help and making a mess pumping to much out the top. There are other ways but I won't go in to that. Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Quinn To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 9:48 AM Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Pilot's Left Brake Problem It=99s about time for the annual anyway. I know it=99s a pain to get in under there to check the brake fluid level. I=99ll get someone else to do it as I=99m getting way to old to contort my body in that fashion. I can just see it now after they open my hanger for 3 months nonpayment to find a dead guy upside down on the pilots side! Tom Quinn President TQI Solutions A SDVOSB Corporation Tel (757) 204-4618 Cell (757) 573-6818 Fax (757) 204-4628 quinn_tom@tqiinc.com www.tqiinc.com From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyv35b Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 11:35 AM To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Pilot's Left Brake Problem Absolutely. If the pilot side doesn't work and the copilot's side does then the fluid in the pilot side master cylinder is low, BUT the system integrity is generally OK. As the linings wear the piston moves outward and displaces more fluid and the fluid level gradually drops. But there may be a leak that accelerates this. Most of the brakes still have the original calipers and there is corrosion pitting in the bore and as the O-ring moves outward it may get to an area that is pitted and start seeping. Also, brake lines tend to crack at the B-nut at the caliper and even completely brake off (I know from first hand experience about this when landing at a one-way dirt strip with no go around). Also, copilot master cylinders tend to seep around the shaft seal at the top. Brake fluid level should be checked at the annual inspection and fluid added (pumped up from the bottom). Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: allenc3@bellsouth.net To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 1:27 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Pilot's Left Brake Problem Common problem. When brake hydraulic fluid gets low, pilot side is 1st to go. Needs to be bled on pilot side. Then you need to find out why it's low........ Leak? Claude Allen Sent from my iPad On Nov 28, 2010, at 3:46 AM, "Tom Quinn" wrote: The left brake on the pilot=99s side is almost nonexistent. You step on the left pedal and nothing, the co-pilot side is fine so that tells me that the pads are probably okay. I know the Tiger has independent master cylinders and I=99m not sure if the fluid is low or if there is air in the system (not sure how that would happen). I had the same problem a year or so ago but it was the right pedal. I had the A&P look at it and they replaced EVERYTHING to try and fix it until they screamed uncle and had the guy with Grumman experience across the ramp come over and take a look at it. Any ideas? Tom Quinn 249RR ==========http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectr ic.com>www.buildersbooks.com"http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilth elp.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co ntribution==========t">http://www.matronics.com/Navig ator?TeamGrumman-List==========ums.matronics.com">htt p://forums.matronics.com========== href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.comhref="http://w ww.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.comhref="http://www.homebuilthe lp.com">www.homebuilthelp.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contributio n">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?T eamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref= "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com www.aeroelectric.comwww.buildersbooks.comwww.homebuilthelp.comhttp://www. matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman- Listhttp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:39:27 AM PST US From: Gary Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Pilot's Left Brake Problem When you say, everything was replaced, can you give a list? =0A=0Aodds are your Master cylinder is AFU. =0A=0AIf it's bled correctly, even if it's n ot that good, it'll work enough to get by =0Afor a while.=0A=0A=0A=0A______ __________________________=0AFrom: Tom Quinn =0ATo: t eamgrumman-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sun, November 28, 2010 12:46:03 AM=0A Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Pilot's Left Brake Problem=0A=0A =0AThe left bra ke on the pilot=99s side is almost nonexistent. You step on the left =0Apedal and nothing, the co-pilot side is fine so that tells me that the p ads are =0Aprobably okay. I know the Tiger has independent master cylinders and I=99m not =0Asure if the fluid is low or if there is air in the system (not sure how that =0Awould happen). I had the same problem a year o r so ago but it was the right =0Apedal. I had the A&P look at it and they r eplaced EVERYTHING to try and fix it =0Auntil they screamed uncle and had t he guy with Grumman experience across the =0Aramp come over and take a look == =0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:53:52 AM PST US From: Gary Vogt Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Pilot's Brake Problem (a story) (here's another story) About 12 years ago, I bought a Cheetah that has been sitting at Van Nuys airport for a number of years. Tanks were dry. No brakes on the pilots side. Windows so foggy you couldn't see out. 1400 TTAF. It was such a good deal, I couldn't pass it up. Joe Morales drove me to the airport. We brought a battery with us. We put the battery in, checked it, engine cranked. We then dragged the Cheetah 50 yards to the fuel island. Put 10 gallons in each side. Fuel ran out about as fast as I put it in. I started the engine. Started pretty quickly too. Joe was sitting next to me, holding the brakes. I had thought about flying from the right seat since I had brakes on the right side, but decided against it. Joe is an A&P/IA also. He'd go along with me. We taxied to 16 Right, quick mag check, and took off for the flight to Lancaster. About 15 miles out of Lancaster, ran out of fuel on the right tank. Switched to the left tank. Landed at Fox (KWJF) and taxied to my hangar. 20 minute flight. Jumped into my first Cheetah, flew to Van Nuys, dropped off Joe, flew home. Joe showed up about 30 minutes later. All in all, a very interesting day. ------- The rest of the story. I actually sold the plane 2 weeks prior to buying it. I never owned the plane . . . . really. I had the Bill of Sale made out to the new owner. I replaced the windshield, resealed the tanks, and put new "O" rings in the brakes. The buyer paid me to fix the plane, plus all of the brokering type paperwork, plus annual inspection, plus some profit on the plane itself. I made $20,000 in a month. I bought the plane with a credit card. ________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message teamgrumman-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.