---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 12/17/10: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:43 AM - Re: nose strut (Dean White) 2. 09:13 AM - Re: nose strut (Ronald Millman CPA) 3. 12:02 PM - Re: nose strut (Gary Vogt) 4. 12:24 PM - Re: nose strut (Brian Hausknecht) 5. 03:32 PM - Re: nose strut (Ronald Millman CPA) 6. 03:45 PM - Re: nose strut (Ronald Millman CPA) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:16 AM PST US From: "Dean White" Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: nose strut I have complained to the FAA before about shoddy work and have been told by two different FSDOs that there was nothing that they could do. They don't care about professionalism or quality, just their darn paperwork. I do not have an A&P but will always check the work of a mechanic who is new to me who is working on my plane. I'm the one who is putting my life on the line when it flies and a good mechanic doesn't care if another set of eyes is looking on if you stay out of the way. Dean White (Tiger81166) Edmonds, WA 98026 dmwhite@e3ra.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Vogt Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 8:13 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: nose strut Oh, oh. I hear a story coming. In 1998, not long after I started working on planes full time, I got a plane that was based in Temecula, CA. It had been maintained by the same mechanic/FBO for the past 15 years. I forget all of the details, but I found 88 items that would ground the plane. I found a total of 119 items that needed to be corrected. At one point, standing in the cockpit (sans seats), and looked around. I said, "OK, I know I have to be on candid camera." The plane was a joke. My mentor, Mike Grimes (look at the authors listed in AC 43-13B), told me to report the mechanic to the FAA. I did. I followed up on it and was told there really wasn't anything they could do. The mechanic in Columbia, CA needs to be closed down too. _____ From: Linn Walters Sent: Thu, December 16, 2010 2:34:39 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: nose strut Now that's ridiculous. You should be able to bill a line item for recovery of part from hands of incompetent A&P. Actually, I really think the FAA should be advised. This level of professionalism could get somebody killed. IMHO, of course. Linn On 12/16/2010 2:10 PM, Gary Vogt wrote: this is, without exception, the worst case of a mechanic not knowing a fucking thing about Grummans (I can say that here) that I've ever seen. Strut had been removed using a hammer and chain and pipe wrench. The pics were taken AFTER I had sanded it out the best I could. The strut was covered with rust. It took a long time to get it this clean. After sanding and cleaning, I acid etched it, primed it, and painted it. I'll see how it looks in a few hours. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:13:15 AM PST US From: "Ronald Millman CPA" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: nose strut ?Well Gary, Bill Mallory and I had a terrific time removing the nosewheel strut on my Tiger a couple of years ago. But will Bill's many years of experience and my CPA muscle we got it loose. Apparently it had not been removed in a long, long time. Ron Millman AA5B @ KWHP L.A. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Vogt To: Teamgrumman List Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 11:10 AM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: nose strut this is, without exception, the worst case of a mechanic not knowing a fucking thing about Grummans (I can say that here) that I've ever seen. Strut had been removed using a hammer and chain and pipe wrench. The pics were taken AFTER I had sanded it out the best I could. The strut was covered with rust. It took a long time to get it this clean. After sanding and cleaning, I acid etched it, primed it, and painted it. I'll see how it looks in a few hours. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:02:31 PM PST US From: Gary Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: nose strut About 20 years ago. I took an old nose strut to a shop that makes trailer hitches. Using trailer receiver hitch box tubing, they built me a 7.5 foot lever arm which collapses (telescopes) down to just over 4 feet. The end that attaches to the nose strut is the same size and diameter as the nose gear fork. I can use the castled nut to hole it in place. I had it powder coated in black wrinkle. Even with that, I had one plane that took two people to lift up one end enough to break the nose strut loose. Then, we both pulled on it to get it to move the other way. That strut took 3 days to remove. ________________________________ From: Ronald Millman CPA Sent: Fri, December 17, 2010 9:00:04 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: nose strut Well Gary, Bill Mallory and I had a terrific time removing the nosewheel strut on my Tiger a couple of years ago. But will Bill's many years of experience and my CPA muscle we got it loose. Apparently it had not been removed in a long, long time. Ron Millman AA5B @ KWHP L.A. ----- Original Message ----- >From: Gary Vogt >To: Teamgrumman List >Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 11:10 AM >Subject: TeamGrumman-List: nose strut > > >this is, without exception, the worst case of a mechanic not knowing a >fucking thing about Grummans (I can say that here) that I've ever seen. > > >Strut had been removed using a hammer and chain and pipe wrench. > > >The pics were taken AFTER I had sanded it out the best I could. > > >The strut was covered with rust. It took a long time to get it this clean. > > >After sanding and cleaning, I acid etched it, primed it, and painted it. > I'll see how it looks in a few hours. > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:24:32 PM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: nose strut From: "Brian Hausknecht" R2VlLCB0aGF0IHNvdW5kcyBnb29kIHRvIG1lLiAgIE5pY2Ugc29saWQgY29uc3RydWN0aW9uLCBz dHJvbmcgYm9uZC4gTm8gZ2VhciBwYXJ0cyBmYWxsaW5nIG9mZiBsaWtlIHlvdSBoYXZlIHdpdGgg YSBDZXNzbmEuIFdoYXQncyB0aGUgcHJvYmxlbT8gIExPTCANCkJyaWFuIEhhdXNrbmVjaHQNCmJo YXVza25lQGdtYWlsLmNvbQ0Kd3d3LmJyaWFuZmx5cy5uZXQNCnd3dy5icmlhbmZseXMuY29tDQpT ZW50IGZyb20gbXkgQmxhY2tiZXJyeQ0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJv bTogR2FyeSBWb2d0IDx0ZWFtZ3J1bW1hbkB5YWhvby5jb20+DQpTZW5kZXI6IG93bmVyLXRlYW1n cnVtbWFuLWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NCkRhdGU6IEZyaSwgMTcgRGVjIDIwMTAg MTE6NTM6MTYgDQpUbzogPHRlYW1ncnVtbWFuLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4NClJlcGx5LVRv OiB0ZWFtZ3J1bW1hbi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb21TdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogVGVhbUdydW1tYW4t TGlzdDogbm9zZSBzdHJ1dA0KDQpBYm91dCAyMCB5ZWFycyBhZ28uIEkgdG9vayBhbiBvbGQgbm9z ZSBzdHJ1dCB0byBhIHNob3AgdGhhdCBtYWtlcyB0cmFpbGVyIA0KaGl0Y2hlcy4gIFVzaW5nIHRy YWlsZXIgcmVjZWl2ZXIgaGl0Y2ggYm94IHR1YmluZywgdGhleSBidWlsdCBtZSBhIDcuNSBmb290 IA0KbGV2ZXIgYXJtIHdoaWNoIGNvbGxhcHNlcyAodGVsZXNjb3BlcykgZG93biB0byBqdXN0IG92 ZXIgNCBmZWV0LiAgVGhlIGVuZCB0aGF0IA0KYXR0YWNoZXMgdG8gdGhlIG5vc2Ugc3RydXQgaXMg dGhlIHNhbWUgc2l6ZSBhbmQgZGlhbWV0ZXIgYXMgdGhlIG5vc2UgZ2VhciBmb3JrLiANCiBJIGNh biB1c2UgdGhlIGNhc3RsZWQgbnV0IHRvIGhvbGUgaXQgaW4gcGxhY2UuICBJIGhhZCBpdCBwb3dk ZXIgY29hdGVkIGluIGJsYWNrIA0Kd3JpbmtsZS4gIA0KDQpFdmVuIHdpdGggdGhhdCwgSSBoYWQg b25lIHBsYW5lIHRoYXQgdG9vayB0d28gcGVvcGxlIHRvIGxpZnQgdXAgb25lIGVuZCBlbm91Z2gg DQp0byBicmVhayB0aGUgbm9zZSBzdHJ1dCBsb29zZS4gIFRoZW4sIHdlIGJvdGggcHVsbGVkIG9u IGl0IHRvIGdldCBpdCB0byBtb3ZlIHRoZSANCm90aGVyIHdheS4gIFRoYXQgc3RydXQgdG9vayAz IGRheXMgdG8gcmVtb3ZlLiAgDQoNCg0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f Xw0KRnJvbTogUm9uYWxkIE1pbGxtYW4gQ1BBIDxyb25taWxsbWFuY3BhQG1zbi5jb20+DQpUbzog dGVhbWdydW1tYW4tbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tDQpTZW50OiBGcmksIERlY2VtYmVyIDE3LCAy MDEwIDk6MDA6MDQgQU0NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBUZWFtR3J1bW1hbi1MaXN0OiBub3NlIHN0cnV0 DQoNCiANCldlbGwgR2FyeSwgICBCaWxsIE1hbGxvcnkgYW5kIEkgaGFkIGEgdGVycmlmaWMgdGlt ZSAgcmVtb3ZpbmcNCnRoZSBub3Nld2hlZWwgc3RydXQgb24gbXkgVGlnZXIgYSBjb3VwbGUgb2Yg eWVhcnMgYWdvLg0KIA0KQnV0IHdpbGwgQmlsbCdzIG1hbnkgeWVhcnMgb2YgZXhwZXJpZW5jZSBh bmQgbXkgQ1BBIG11c2NsZQ0Kd2UgZ290IGl0IGxvb3NlLg0KIA0KQXBwYXJlbnRseSBpdCBoYWQg bm90IGJlZW4gcmVtb3ZlZCBpbiBhIGxvbmcsIGxvbmcgdGltZS4NCiANClJvbiBNaWxsbWFuIEFB NUIgICBAIEtXSFAgTC5BLg0KLS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLSANCj5Gcm9tOiBH YXJ5ICAgIFZvZ3QgDQo+VG86IFRlYW1ncnVtbWFuIExpc3QgDQo+U2VudDogVGh1cnNkYXksIERl Y2VtYmVyIDE2LCAyMDEwIDExOjEwICAgIEFNDQo+U3ViamVjdDogVGVhbUdydW1tYW4tTGlzdDog bm9zZSAgICBzdHJ1dA0KPg0KPg0KPnRoaXMgaXMsIHdpdGhvdXQgZXhjZXB0aW9uLCB0aGUgd29y c3QgY2FzZSBvZiBhIG1lY2hhbmljIG5vdCBrbm93aW5nIGEgICAgDQo+ZnVja2luZyB0aGluZyBh Ym91dCBHcnVtbWFucyAoSSBjYW4gc2F5IHRoYXQgaGVyZSkgdGhhdCBJJ3ZlIGV2ZXIgc2Vlbi4N Cj4NCj4NCj5TdHJ1dCBoYWQgYmVlbiByZW1vdmVkIHVzaW5nIGEgaGFtbWVyIGFuZCBjaGFpbiBh bmQgcGlwZSB3cmVuY2guDQo+DQo+DQo+VGhlIHBpY3Mgd2VyZSB0YWtlbiBBRlRFUiBJIGhhZCBz YW5kZWQgaXQgb3V0IHRoZSBiZXN0IEkgY291bGQuICAgICANCj4NCj4NCj5UaGUgc3RydXQgd2Fz IGNvdmVyZWQgd2l0aCBydXN0LiAgSXQgdG9vayBhIGxvbmcgdGltZSB0byBnZXQgaXQgdGhpcyAg ICBjbGVhbi4gDQogDQo+DQo+DQo+QWZ0ZXIgc2FuZGluZyBhbmQgY2xlYW5pbmcsIEkgYWNpZCBl dGNoZWQgaXQsIHByaW1lZCBpdCwgYW5kIHBhaW50ZWQgaXQuICAgIA0KPiBJJ2xsIHNlZSBob3cg aXQgbG9va3MgaW4gYSBmZXcgaG91cnMuDQo+DQoNCg0KDQogICAgICANCg= ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:32:04 PM PST US From: "Ronald Millman CPA" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: nose strut ?No problem. All it takes is very occasional removal, cleaning, replacement and sealing. It's a really great system. My Tiger is 33 years old, and flies like new. 141KTS. R ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Hausknecht To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 12:20 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: nose strut Gee, that sounds good to me. Nice solid construction, strong bond. No gear parts falling off like you have with a Cessna. What's the problem? LOL Brian Hausknecht bhauskne@gmail.com www.brianflys.net www.brianflys.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: Gary Vogt > Sender: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 11:53:16 -0800 (PST) To: ReplyTo: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: nose strut About 20 years ago. I took an old nose strut to a shop that makes trailer hitches. Using trailer receiver hitch box tubing, they built me a 7.5 foot lever arm which collapses (telescopes) down to just over 4 feet. The end that attaches to the nose strut is the same size and diameter as the nose gear fork. I can use the castled nut to hole it in place. I had it powder coated in black wrinkle. Even with that, I had one plane that took two people to lift up one end enough to break the nose strut loose. Then, we both pulled on it to get it to move the other way. That strut took 3 days to remove. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: Ronald Millman CPA To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Fri, December 17, 2010 9:00:04 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: nose strut Well Gary, Bill Mallory and I had a terrific time removing the nosewheel strut on my Tiger a couple of years ago. But will Bill's many years of experience and my CPA muscle we got it loose. Apparently it had not been removed in a long, long time. Ron Millman AA5B @ KWHP L.A. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Vogt To: Teamgrumman List Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 11:10 AM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: nose strut this is, without exception, the worst case of a mechanic not knowing a fucking thing about Grummans (I can say that here) that I've ever seen. Strut had been removed using a hammer and chain and pipe wrench. The pics were taken AFTER I had sanded it out the best I could. The strut was covered with rust. It took a long time to get it this clean. After sanding and cleaning, I acid etched it, primed it, and painted it. I'll see how it looks in a few hours. www.aeroelectric.com www.buildersbooks.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List ~=B2=03 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:45:13 PM PST US From: "Ronald Millman CPA" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: nose strut ?All the more reason to remove them once in a while. And reinstall them properly sealed. Ron. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Vogt To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: nose strut About 20 years ago. I took an old nose strut to a shop that makes trailer hitches. Using trailer receiver hitch box tubing, they built me a 7.5 foot lever arm which collapses (telescopes) down to just over 4 feet. The end that attaches to the nose strut is the same size and diameter as the nose gear fork. I can use the castled nut to hole it in place. I had it powder coated in black wrinkle. Even with that, I had one plane that took two people to lift up one end enough to break the nose strut loose. Then, we both pulled on it to get it to move the other way. That strut took 3 days to remove. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: Ronald Millman CPA To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Fri, December 17, 2010 9:00:04 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: nose strut Well Gary, Bill Mallory and I had a terrific time removing the nosewheel strut on my Tiger a couple of years ago. But will Bill's many years of experience and my CPA muscle we got it loose. Apparently it had not been removed in a long, long time. Ron Millman AA5B @ KWHP L.A. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Vogt To: Teamgrumman List Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 11:10 AM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: nose strut this is, without exception, the worst case of a mechanic not knowing a fucking thing about Grummans (I can say that here) that I've ever seen. Strut had been removed using a hammer and chain and pipe wrench. The pics were taken AFTER I had sanded it out the best I could. The strut was covered with rust. It took a long time to get it this clean. After sanding and cleaning, I acid etched it, primed it, and painted it. I'll see how it looks in a few hours. www.aeroelectric.com www.buildersbooks.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message teamgrumman-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.