---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 12/26/10: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:48 AM - Re: Too Many Posts (Gary Vogt) 2. 08:57 AM - Fw: [Fw: FW: to those that ride or those that want to.] (Gary Vogt) 3. 09:35 AM - to those that ride or those that want to.] (Linn Walters) 4. 01:09 PM - Re: Fw: [Fw: FW: to those that ride or those that want to.] () ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:48:28 AM PST US From: Gary Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Too Many Posts Don, it's not a big deal. Don't let those who whine because of multiple posts affect anything you do. thanks for your contributions. ________________________________ From: Don Curry Sent: Sat, December 25, 2010 2:34:26 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Too Many Posts My apologies to all who have received multiple copies of my posts. I have shut down my desktop and will leave it off for half an hour or so to see if that allows Outlook to clear itself. If someone who was receiving the multi-posts will let me know when they stop, I would appreciate it. Don Sent from my PDA. > -----Original Message----- > From: dmwhite@e3ra.com > Sent: Sat, 25 Dec 2010 12:57:02 -0800 > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: FlightPrep patent > > Cliff, > > I have had this problem before when getting intermittent contact between > my > Outlook and the server that the email comes to. Somehow, it gets the > message but doesn't reset the server so it knows it has been received. I > have fixed it by rebooting and/or messing with the settings in Outlook > that > tell it whether and how long to leave messages on the server. Thank > goodness that Microsoft doesn't make planes. > > Oops, I just looked and I got a bunch of them from Don, too. So it is > him > and not us that is the problem. I can still blame it on Microsoft, > though. > > Dean > > > > Dean White (Tiger81166) > > Edmonds, WA 98026 > > dmwhite@e3ra.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyv35b > Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2010 6:08 AM > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: FlightPrep patent > > > > Well Don, > > > > Since yesterday (24th) until this morning at 5:57 AM I have received this > same email from you 157 times! Apparently it is being duplicated to my > address and not to others. I don't know how but someone needs to get > this > resolved. > > > > Cliff > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Don Curry > > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Friday, December 24, 2010 1:23 PM > > Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: FlightPrep patent > > > > Sorry, Cliff, sometimes it does that when Outlook gets full and I never > know > unless somebody tells me. I hope I fixed it. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyv35b > Sent: Friday, December 24, 2010 3:36 PM > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: FlightPrep patent > > > > Don, is there something wrong with your email program, etc. I have > gotten > about 25 of the same emails from your this AM > > > > Cliff > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Don Curry > > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Friday, December 24, 2010 8:29 AM > > Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: FlightPrep patent > > > > Brian, > > Don't take this personally; I don't know you and I'm sure you are a great > guy. But there seems to be a sudden glut of experts on your side who > know > an awful lot about the specific, inner workings of the FlightPrep patent > and > patent law in general. I don't know who is getting you guys lathered up, > but my spider senses are on full alert. I think you're being played. > According to something I read, the US Patent Office examined FlightPrep's > patent application for eight years before issuing the patent. Eight > years > under a government bureaucrat's microscope! And then suddenly, within > just > a couple of weeks of RunwayFinder willingly pulling itself off the web, I > read account after account from you experts who absolutely know that > FlightPrep didn't deserve its patent -- and you back up your position by > swearing and calling names which, of course, is an impressive and > persuasive > tactic for some! Of course, you only have to prove to yourselves that > you > know more than the US Patent Office and all the patent attorneys who have > undoubtedly looked at this over the months - oh, and more than > RunwayFinder, > which took its site down for a reason - for once you have yourselves > convinced, you can enjoy the fun of espousing your opinion in your > characteristically delicate manner. Personally, I don't know how > FlightPrep > did it! In fact, I read in amazement some of Gary Vogt's accounts of his > dealings with the FAA while he was getting his STC for his cowl. I'm > sure I > would have had an aneurism after about the second time the FAA changed > some > parameter it wanted to check! The point is, the government's > professional > deny-boys examined FlightPrep's application for what seems like an > excessive > amount of time and ultimately approved it. So should FlightPrep be > commended for enduring the pain and bringing its product to market or > should > it be bashed for being successful? You have vociferously bought into the > emotion that it should be bashed and boycotted. I think I'll cling to > the > "innocent until proven guilty" concept for a while longer. > > Don > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian > Hausknecht > Sent: Friday, December 24, 2010 12:08 AM > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: FlightPrep patent > > > > Bullshit. They need to be boycotted. > > > > FlightPrep is a patent troll, taking advantage of the incompetence of the > Patent Office to get a patent for the long-existing and widely used > practice of web-based flight planning. The failures of the patent office > are becoming legendary, if you have been following technology news. > Patenting jestures and the act of performing an internet search? Morons! > > > > And as trolls, FlightPrep is incurring appropriate wrath for shaking down > their competitors. > > > > Let them know you will not tolerate their unethical performance. Boycott > them. > > > > I only wish there was a way to clean house at the patent office and get > competent people there who will throw out these frivilous applications > from > Apple, Google, and FlightTroll. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 7:25 PM, Don Curry wrote: > > Tom, > > I'm not trying to assume the role of apologist or defender for > FlightPrep, > nor as antagonist to FlightPrep's detractors. However, as a proud member > of > the aviation community for many years, I have enjoyed the fact-based > perspective this community usually displays. It must have something to > do > with working with gravity. So I am surprised to see your fervor backed > up > only by a "may" and an "if:" "FlightPrep may have overextended their > [sic] > claim. . .," and "If they overextended their [sic] claim. . ." Equally > surprising is your acknowledgment that the courts need to sort this out, > meaning, it seems, that you understand that we don't currently know the > whole truth and, in the end, the court's finding may be in favor of > FlightPrep. But until all the facts are weighed and the scales of > justice > are balanced, you are determined to light the torches and incite the > villagers to help you assassinate the suspect. Sounds kind of like a > kangaroo court - you know, "give the suspect a fair trial then hang the > guilty bastard!" Of course you can do what you want with your money, > your > time, and your speech, but I would encourage you to spend a little time > in > your introspective place and see if you might prefer an approach that > lets > the contestants run the race before declaring a winner. Oh, and on that > free speech thing, it's not free if it is used to promote an injustice > and > ends up costing you your honor. Just sayin. > > Don > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom > Quinn > Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 4:20 PM > > > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > > Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: FlightPrep patent > > > > The problem is that Flightprep may have over extended their claim that > other > companies have infringed upon their patent and have used their attorneys > to > scare small guys, without money, to close down. The bigger corporations > that > have deeper pockets basically told Flightprep to stick it where the sun > doesn't shine. If they have overextended their claim on their patent then > it > is them who is stealing from others. Until the courts sort this out I am > exercising my first amendment right of speaking out against Flightprep > for > using these heavy handed tactics against people who can't defend > themselves > and am encouraging my friends to join me in boycotting them as well. > Looks > like RunwayFinder has changed his mind in mounting a defense against > Flightprep http://blog.runwayfinder.com/. I will, and I encourage > everyone > else, to use what money they would have bought Flightprep products with, > to > donate to Dave Parson's legal defense fund once it is up and running. > > > > Tom Quinn > > 249RR > > > > From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don > Curry > Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 3:29 PM > > > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > > Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: FlightPrep patent > > > > If FlightPrep was issued a proper US Patent for its product, then why is > it > wrong for it to protect its patent? Have we so lost sight of the value > of > private property in this country that we are willing to call FlightPrep > greedy for wanting to protect its own possession? Have we decided that > it > deserves to be boycotted and put out of business for following the law? > That seems harsh and bitter to me. Personally, I don't know if > FlightPrep > has a legal and proper patent or if any of the other named parties has > infringed on that patent. I believe the responsible thing to do is hold > fire until the courts have reviewed the matter and ruled. However, if > the > patent is deemed legal and proper and if RunwayFinder, AOPA, SkyVector, > FlyaGoGo, et al have used it without the right to do so, then shame on > them. > And shame on those who rushed to judgment and took action (boycott or > otherwise) against the true owner of the property. Isn't the strength of > a > constitutional republic supposed to be its dedication to the rule of law > and > not the emotional appeals of the mob? Beware to all of us, for the next > time the mob wants to take someone's private property it may be one of > ours. > > > Don > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Starkey > Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 2:22 PM > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: FlightPrep patent > > > > I'm afraid that putting adjectives in all caps doesn't necessarily make > them > true. The FlightPrep patent was filed in 2001, which, in software terms, > is > centuries back. > > The basis of the patent is using a client browser in conjunction with a > server to develop a graphical flight plan. The systems cited as > pre-existing art required all charts, etc., be resident on the client > computer. > > A problem with the patent system is that even if neither A nor B is > patentable, A + B is. Another problem is that although something obvious > to > practitioners of an art, the courts and the patent office recognize that > almost everything is obvious after the fact. > > FlightPrep is indeed being pretty heavy handed and more that tad greedy. > But they're also taking on some very big guns with very large legal > budgets > like Jeppesen and AOPA. Unless FlightPrep has backers with very deep > pockets, they'll probably run out of money before Jeppesen and AOPA run > out > of appeals. > > Software is automatically copyrighted and may or may not be patented. > There > was a time that he USPTO considered software to algorithms, which are not > patentable. The Supreme Court found otherwise. > > That said, I think a boycott of FlightPrep is not unreasonable. In their > case, A + B was blatantly obvious, they added nothing to the state of the > art, are suppressing useful services, and deserve to be put out of > business > by Foreflight on the iPad. > > > On 12/23/2010 1:16 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote: > > Guys: > > > > I'm going to take a WAG here. > > > > If the same software has been available as a FREE DOMAIN and there is > PROOF > of prior existence. Than the organization that has to be chastised is > not > FlightPrep. Sure they are trying to pull a quick one. But, it is the > patten office that did not do their homework. > > More information is needed, I recall some basic guidelines that SOFTWARE > is > a copy-write and not a patten. Yet, if there was a doggle or toggle used > to > activate or protect the software THAT could be patented. Any lawyers out > there? How about a class action suit? > > > Barry > > = > > On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 8:44 AM, b v wrote: > > > FlightPrep has managed to pull a patent trough regarding on-line flight > planning and aviation maps. As far as I can tell, they patented existing > technology by using some creative wording. Now they are going after all > on-line flight planning companies including FltPlan > (http://www.fltplan.com/fltplanpressrelease.htm), FlightAware > (http://flightaware.com/news/article/FlightAware-Statement-on-FlightPrep-Pat > ent/147) and > AOPA(http://www.aopa.org/flightplanning/articles/2010/101214AOPA_Flight_Plan > ner_does_not_infringe_on_patent.html) and trying to shake them down. > They have already caused shut-down of RunwayFinder(my favorite chart > mapping > site), www.nacomatic.com and > www.flyagogo.net > . They managed to intimidate SkyVector into > submission. > > Here is a podcast that shows the gravity of the FlightPrep's assault and > a > threat to all on-line flight planning sites, particularly the free ones: > > http://www.avweb.com/podcast/podcast/AudioPodcast_LionelLavenue_FlightPrepFl > ightPlanning_PatentLaw_203826-1.html > > Please spread the news and boycott the FlightPrep. > > Thank you, > -Boris > > P.S. I have also sent this to GG list, but aparently that dude thinks > that > shutting down flight plannig web sites has no relevance to Grumman > pilots. > Now I understand Gary's feelings. > > > > > > > ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com > ooks.com " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > > et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > le, List Admin. > List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List > http://forums.matronics.com > > > > > > > > > -- > Jim Starkey > Founder, NimbusDB, Inc. > 978 526-1376 > > > www.aeroelectric.com > www.homebuilthelp.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > _____ > > > > > > > Try IM ToolPack > > > > > Send your photos by email > in > seconds... > Try FREE IM ToolPack at www.imtoolpack.com > > Works in all emails, instant messengers, blogs, forums and social > networks. > > > > > www.aeroelectric.com http://www.aeroelectric.com/> > www.homebuilthelp.com > http://www.matronics.com/c > > -Matt > Dralle, List - The TeamGrumman-List Email List utilities such as > List Photoshare, and much much --> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List > > _====================== --> > http://forums.matronics.com ==== > > > www.aeroelectric.com > www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.homebuilthelp.com/> > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > _____ > > > http://www.inbox.com/earth> > 3D Earth > Screensaver Preview > > Free 3D Earth Screensaver > Watch the Earth right on your desktop! Check it out at > www.inbox.com/earth > > > > "_blank">www.aeroelectric.com > .com/" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List > ttp://forums.matronics.com > > > > > > www.aeroelectric.com > www.buildersbooks.com > www.homebuilthelp.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > _____ > > > > 3D Earth Screensaver Preview > > Free 3D Earth Screensaver > Watch the Earth right on your desktop! Check it out at > www.inbox.com/earth > > > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com> > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com> > href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com> > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref > "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.c > om/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > > > > www.aeroelectric.com > www.buildersbooks.com > www.homebuilthelp.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > _____ > > > > > Try IM ToolPack > Share photos & > screenshots > in seconds... > Try FREE IM ToolPack at www.imtoolpack.com > > Works in all emails, instant messengers, blogs, forums and social > networks. > > > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com > href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref > "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.c > om/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ____________________________________________________________ Share photos & screenshots in seconds... TRY FREE IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if1 Works in all emails, instant messengers, blogs, forums and social networks. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:57:16 AM PST US From: Gary Vogt Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Fw: [FWD: FW: to those that ride or those that want to.] ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Adam Beckstead Rodney Beckstead ; Jerry Fisher ; Bob Leseberg ; Andy McLean ; Alfonso Sanchez ; Josh Sohn ; Tony ; Gary Vogt ; Kerry Vogt Sent: Sun, December 26, 2010 7:55:40 AM Subject: Fw: [FWD: FW: to those that ride or those that want to.] --- On Sun, 12/26/10, adam@custom-mopar.com wrote: >From: adam@custom-mopar.com >Subject: [FWD: FW: to those that ride or those that want to.] >To: sscycletrash@yahoo.com >Date: Sunday, December 26, 2010, 8:49 AM > > > > >-------- Original Message -------- >>Subject: FW: to those that ride or those that want to. >>From: Mark Trewhella >>Date: Tue, December 21, 2010 5:43 pm >>To: Adam Beckstead , Dawn Johnson >> >> >> >> >>________________________________ From: john.schabinger@northernagsuppliers.com >>To: marty.max@northernagsuppliers.com; padgett@bitstream.net; >>steve.kersting@kerstingsales.com; land_wendy@hotmail.com; wsbhome@mchsi.com; >>Warren@niteinfo.biz; mcuster@awardstaffing.com; mdschauer@frontiernet.net; >>mtrewhella@q.com; jamesnorris1@charter.net; jpirner@charter.net; >>jim456@sbcglobal.net; shagnasstys@aol.com; ghart46@cfl.rr.com; >>glnilson01@msn.com; gwloeppky@gmail.com; Terry.Barta@FTR.com; T_cueva@msn.com; >>larso007@umn.edu; bflynn@yellowjacket.com; bkoehler@medfabinc.com >>Subject: FW: to those that ride or those that want to. >>Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 11:12:50 -0600 >> >> >> >> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Absolutely unbelievable, you must see >>>>>Subject:Pucker Time >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> A 25-mile commute through Russian traffic on a powerful two-wheeled samurai >>>>>sword, and you get a video showing the "quick" way to work. Sometimes this >>>>>two-wheeler even becomes a one-wheeler as rare empty stretches of road >>>>>disappears when the nose goes skyward. >>>>>CLICK HERE >>>>>Hang On !! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> aaw >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>>= ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:05 AM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: TeamGrumman-List: to those that ride or those that want to.] Thanks Gary. Glad he made and posted the video ..... he's probably a statistic by now!!!! Linn On 12/26/2010 11:54 AM, Gary Vogt wrote: > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > *Absolutely unbelievable, you must see* > *Subject:*Pucker Time** > > ** > > ***A 25-mile commute through Russian traffic on a > powerful two-wheeled samurai sword, and you get a > video showing the "quick" way to work. > Sometimes****this two-wheeler even becomes a > one-wheeler as rare empty stretches of road > disappears when the nose goes skyward.* > */_CLICK HERE_/* > *Hang On !!* > > > *** > * aaw** > > > > > > * > > * ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:09:34 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fw: [FWD: FW: to those that ride or those that want to.] Ah yes, job security for people in my profession (Transfusion Medicine). Claude From: Gary Vogt Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2010 11:54 AM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Fw: [FWD: FW: to those that ride or those that want to.] ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Adam Beckstead ; Rodney Beckstead ; Jerry Fisher ; Bob Leseberg ; Andy McLean ; Alfonso Sanchez ; Josh Sohn ; Tony ; Gary Vogt ; Kerry Vogt Sent: Sun, December 26, 2010 7:55:40 AM Subject: Fw: [FWD: FW: to those that ride or those that want to.] --- On Sun, 12/26/10, adam@custom-mopar.com wrote: From: adam@custom-mopar.com Subject: [FWD: FW: to those that ride or those that want to.] To: sscycletrash@yahoo.com Date: Sunday, December 26, 2010, 8:49 AM -------- Original Message -------- Subject: FW: to those that ride or those that want to. From: Mark Trewhella Date: Tue, December 21, 2010 5:43 pm To: Adam Beckstead , Dawn Johnson ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: john.schabinger@northernagsuppliers.com To: marty.max@northernagsuppliers.com; padgett@bitstream.net; steve.kersting@kerstingsales.com; land_wendy@hotmail.com; wsbhome@mchsi.com; Warren@niteinfo.biz; mcuster@awardstaffing.com; mdschauer@frontiernet.net; mtrewhella@q.com; jamesnorris1@charter.net; jpirner@charter.net; jim456@sbcglobal.net; shagnasstys@aol.com; ghart46@cfl.rr.com; glnilson01@msn.com; gwloeppky@gmail.com; Terry.Barta@FTR.com; T_cueva@msn.com; larso007@umn.edu; bflynn@yellowjacket.com; bkoehler@medfabinc.com Subject: FW: to those that ride or those that want to. Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 11:12:50 -0600 ------------------------------------------------ Absolutely unbelievable, you must see Subject: Pucker Time A 25-mile commute through Russian traffic on a powerful two-wheeled samurai sword, and you get a video showing the "quick" way to work. Sometimes this two-wheeler even becomes a one-wheeler as rare empty stretches of road disappears when the nose goes skyward. CLICK HERE Hang On !! aaw = __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5668 (20101202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5668 (20101202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message teamgrumman-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.