---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 12/28/10: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:58 AM - Re: Coming Home to a Cheetah (flyv35b) 2. 05:59 AM - Re: Coming Home to a Cheetah (quinn_tom@tqiinc.com) 3. 06:19 AM - Re: Coming Home to a Cheetah (ArjayS@AOL.COM) 4. 06:35 AM - Re: Coming Home to a Cheetah (flyv35b) 5. 09:56 AM - Re: Coming Home to a Cheetah (allenc3@bellsouth.net) 6. 10:06 AM - Re: Coming Home to a Cheetah (Linn Walters) 7. 10:48 AM - Re: Coming Home to a Cheetah (Rick Pollack) 8. 06:36 PM - Re: Coming Home to a Cheetah (allenc3@bellsouth.net) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:58:55 AM PST US From: "flyv35b" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Coming Home to a Cheetah Most people probably follow the POH and take off without flaps. But you can get off the ground at a lower speed and in a shorter distance with partial flaps. You just may not be able to climb quite as fast (ROC) with the flaps even though the angle of climb MIGHT be steeper. I always (almost anyway) land with full flaps at minimum touchdown speed and typically hold the nosewheel off for some time after that. Just don't land at high speed on the nosewheel and start the POI that results in a prop strike many times. Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: David Boone To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 12:06 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Coming Home to a Cheetah I just purchased a 79 Cheetah with the 160 HP engine - I had a 77 Cheetah 23 years ago with 150 HP engine. It was a great airplane, but I cannot remember how I used to fly it. Landing with or without flaps, Take off with or without flaps. I'm based @ CPK - Chesapeake Va. - near sea Level. I appreciate any input. I hope no question is too stupid to ask. Thanks David O Boone ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:38 AM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Coming Home to a Cheetah From: quinn_tom@tqiinc.com RGF2aWQsIGlmIHlvdSBsaWtlIG1heWJlIHdlIGNhbiBtZWV0IHRvIGRpc2N1c3MgYWlycGxhbmVz IHNvbWV0aW1lLiBJIGhhdmUgc29tZSB0aXBzIG9uIHRoZSBHcnVtbWFucyB0aGF0IG1heSBiZSBo ZWxwZnVsIChtYWludGVuYW5jZSwgZmx5aW5nLCBldGMpDQpTZW50IG9uIHRoZSBTcHJpbnSuIE5v dyBOZXR3b3JrIGZyb20gbXkgQmxhY2tCZXJyea4NCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0t LS0NCkZyb206ICJEYXZpZCBCb29uZSIgPGRhdmlkNTU1QGNveC5uZXQ+DQpTZW5kZXI6IG93bmVy LXRlYW1ncnVtbWFuLWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NCkRhdGU6IE1vbiwgMjcgRGVj IDIwMTAgMjA6NDk6MDYgDQpUbzogPHRlYW1ncnVtbWFuLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4NClJl cGx5LVRvOiB0ZWFtZ3J1bW1hbi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJFOiBUZWFt R3J1bW1hbi1MaXN0OiBDb21pbmcgSG9tZSB0byBhIENoZWV0YWgNCg0KVGhpcyBpcyBhIG11bHRp LXBhcnQgbWVzc2FnZSBpbiBNSU1FIGZvcm1hdC4NCg0K ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:54 AM PST US From: ArjayS@AOL.COM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Coming Home to a Cheetah Ditto But Roy taught me to bleed off the flaps on T/O while in groud effect. It' s a habit I use to this day. Anyone else? Rj Siegel CEO/LoPresti Aviation Engineering > Most people probably follow the POH and take off without flaps.- But you > can get off the ground at a lower speed and in a shorter distance with > partial flaps.- You just may not be able to climb quite as fast (ROC) with the > flaps even though the angle of climb MIGHT be steeper.- I always (almo st > anyway) land with full flaps at minimum touchdown speed and typically ho ld > the nosewheel off for some time after that.- Just don't land at high speed on > the nosewheel and start the POI that results in a prop strike many times .. > - > Cliff > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:20 AM PST US From: "flyv35b" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Coming Home to a Cheetah That works, but I think I'd leave the flaps down if there was an obstacle not far ahead and then "milk" the flaps up after clearing the obstacle. The 4 place planes have enough extra power for the plane to climb well with partial flaps, like was mentioned about matching the flap to the maximum aileron down deflection. There is not much extra drag at that point. Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: ArjayS@AOL.COM To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 6:15 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Coming Home to a Cheetah Ditto But Roy taught me to bleed off the flaps on T/O while in groud effect. It's a habit I use to this day. Anyone else? Rj Siegel CEO/LoPresti Aviation Engineering Most people probably follow the POH and take off without flaps. But you can get off the ground at a lower speed and in a shorter distance with partial flaps. You just may not be able to climb quite as fast (ROC) with the flaps even though the angle of climb MIGHT be steeper. I always (almost anyway) land with full flaps at minimum touchdown speed and typically hold the nosewheel off for some time after that. Just don't land at high speed on the nosewheel and start the POI that results in a prop strike many times. Cliff ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:56:17 AM PST US From: "allenc3@bellsouth.net" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Coming Home to a Cheetah Always hate to get the flap thing going again, but what I usually tell the P OH (no flap) people is come on over to my 2600 ft Florida grass strip on say , July 4th when the temp and humidity is pushing 95 and the grass is growing like 1 inch a day and take off with no flaps. Claude Allen Sent from my iPad On Dec 28, 2010, at 9:15 AM, ArjayS@AOL.COM wrote: > Ditto > But Roy taught me to bleed off the flaps on T/O while in groud effect. It' s a habit I use to this day. Anyone else? > Rj Siegel CEO/LoPresti Aviation Engineering > > >> Most people probably follow the POH and take off without flaps. But you c an get off the ground at a lower speed and in a shorter distance with partia l flaps. You just may not be able to climb quite as fast (ROC) with the fla ps even though the angle of climb MIGHT be steeper. I always (almost anyway ) land with full flaps at minimum touchdown speed and typically hold the nos ewheel off for some time after that. Just don't land at high speed on the n osewheel and start the POI that results in a prop strike many times. >> >> Cliff >> > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:06:31 AM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Coming Home to a Cheetah Did you just invite the SE region to a flap-flap party on the 4th??? :-) Linn On 12/28/2010 12:52 PM, allenc3@bellsouth.net wrote: > Always hate to get the flap thing going again, but what I usually tell > the POH (no flap) people is come on over to my 2600 ft Florida grass > strip on say, July 4th when the temp and humidity is pushing 95 and > the grass is growing like 1 inch a day and take off with no flaps. > > Claude Allen > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 28, 2010, at 9:15 AM, ArjayS@AOL.COM wrote: > >> Ditto >> But Roy taught me to bleed off the flaps on T/O while in groud >> effect. It's a habit I use to this day. Anyone else? >> Rj Siegel CEO/LoPresti Aviation Engineering >> >> >>> *Most people probably follow the POH and take off without flaps. >>> But you can get off the ground at a lower speed and in a shorter >>> distance with partial flaps. You just may not be able to climb >>> quite as fast (ROC) with the flaps even though the angle of climb >>> MIGHT be steeper. I always (almost anyway) land with full flaps at >>> minimum touchdown speed and typically hold the nosewheel off for >>> some time after that. Just don't land at high speed on the >>> nosewheel and start the POI that results in a prop strike many times.* >>> >>> *Cliff* >>> >> >> >> * >> >> * > * > > * ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:48:19 AM PST US From: Rick Pollack Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Coming Home to a Cheetah Claude, just curious about how much flap do you use? Rick Tiger 4542N SMO On Dec 28, 2010, at 9:52 AM, allenc3@bellsouth.net wrote: > Always hate to get the flap thing going again, but what I usually tell the POH (no flap) people is come on over to my 2600 ft Florida grass strip on say, July 4th when the temp and humidity is pushing 95 and the grass is growing like 1 inch a day and take off with no flaps. > > Claude Allen > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 28, 2010, at 9:15 AM, ArjayS@AOL.COM wrote: > >> Ditto >> But Roy taught me to bleed off the flaps on T/O while in groud effect. It's a habit I use to this day. Anyone else? >> Rj Siegel CEO/LoPresti Aviation Engineering >> >> >>> Most people probably follow the POH and take off without flaps. But you can get off the ground at a lower speed and in a shorter distance with partial flaps. You just may not be able to climb quite as fast (ROC) with the flaps even though the angle of climb MIGHT be steeper. I always (almost anyway) land with full flaps at minimum touchdown speed and typically hold the nosewheel off for some time after that. Just don't land at high speed on the nosewheel and start the POI that results in a prop strike many times. >>> >>> Cliff >>> >> >> >> >> > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:17 PM PST US From: "allenc3@bellsouth.net" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Coming Home to a Cheetah About 1/3 or even with full Aileron deflection. As soon as I get positive cl imb, I bleed them off. Claude Allen Sent from my iPad On Dec 28, 2010, at 1:44 PM, Rick Pollack wrote: > Claude, just curious about how much flap do you use? > > Rick Tiger 4542N SMO > > > On Dec 28, 2010, at 9:52 AM, allenc3@bellsouth.net wrote: > >> Always hate to get the flap thing going again, but what I usually tell th e POH (no flap) people is come on over to my 2600 ft Florida grass strip on s ay, July 4th when the temp and humidity is pushing 95 and the grass is growi ng like 1 inch a day and take off with no flaps. >> >> Claude Allen >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Dec 28, 2010, at 9:15 AM, ArjayS@AOL.COM wrote: >> >>> Ditto >>> But Roy taught me to bleed off the flaps on T/O while in groud effect. I t's a habit I use to this day. Anyone else? >>> Rj Siegel CEO/LoPresti Aviation Engineering >>> >>> >>>> Most people probably follow the POH and take off without flaps. But yo u can get off the ground at a lower speed and in a shorter distance with par tial flaps. You just may not be able to climb quite as fast (ROC) with the f laps even though the angle of climb MIGHT be steeper. I always (almost anyw ay) land with full flaps at minimum touchdown speed and typically hold the n osewheel off for some time after that. Just don't land at high speed on the nosewheel and start the POI that results in a prop strike many times. >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> href="x-msg://31/3D%22http://www.aeroelectric.com%22">www.aeroelectric. com >> href="x-msg://31/3D%22http://www.buildersbooks.com%22">www.buildersbook s.com >> href="x-msg://31/3D%22http://www.homebuilthelp.com%22">www.homebuilthel p.com >> href="x-msg://31/3D%22http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22">http:// www.matronics.com/contribution >> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> href="x-msg://31/3D%22http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Li st%22">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List >> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> href="x-msg://31/3D%22http://forums.matronics.com%22">http://forums.mat ronics.com >> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message teamgrumman-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.