---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 04/15/11: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:53 AM - Re: Damn baffles (Gary L Vogt) 2. 06:09 AM - Re: Damn baffles (flyv35b) 3. 07:25 AM - Re: Damn baffles (Airport Bum) 4. 11:25 AM - Re: Damn baffles (Gary Vogt) 5. 11:25 AM - Re: Damn baffles (Gary Vogt) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:53:20 AM PST US From: Gary L Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Damn baffles I could be a smart ass and say, "Damn. That's a great idea. Who would have thought?" But I won't. Trust me paper won't get you to the .010 to .020 tolerance I build my baffles to. A coat hangar can be used to size brake line too. It'll get you close. But it won't fit worth a damn. When you install my baffles (the ones I've finalized), there is no trim to fit. On the baffles that failed MY criteria, it was because the holes in the #4 cylinder baffle with the holes for the nut plates, are off .050 inches. The holes in the left rear baffle for the oil cooler puts the oil cooler .025 inches too far outboard. Doesn't fit well without pushing and shoving. 15 pieces were scrapped. Now, I know I could have left all that bullshit trim-to-fit, that's the quality other STC holders build to (just ask Scott Jerigan). Why not do it right? Regrettably, the Rev A version of the left rear inner baffle wasn't approved by the FAA. Long story. So, it will need some trim to fit. The rest are minor changes. I can do those. Gary Sent from my iPad On Apr 14, 2011, at 9:26 PM, Airport Bum wrote: > > Your not doing it right! Samples are done in paper or vinyl before hard product is made. We do this stuff all the time. > > Kevin > > Gary Vogt wrote: > >> Can you believe almost $1200 for a set of baffles? >> >> Not only that, but, I still didn't get the hole spacing right on the #4/oil >> cooler match up. >> >> Damn. Lots of scrap aluminum. > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:52 AM PST US From: flyv35b Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Damn baffles On the baffles that failed MY criteria, it was because the holes in the #4 cylinder baffle with the holes for the nut plates, are off .050 inches. The holes in the left rear baffle for the oil cooler puts the oil cooler .025 inches too far outboard. Doesn't fit well without pushing and shoving. 15 pieces were scrapped. > Why would you have to scrap 15 pieces? Couldn't you just make a new rear baffle-the one the cooler is attached to? ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:25 AM PST US From: Airport Bum Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Damn baffles Gary, I'm just giving you a hard time, you know one smart ass helping another. We do often make multiple prototypes to get the close tolerances your looking for. It is a pain but it is worth it. Of course it helps to have the equipment in house. I'm not sure if you are doing the actual design work or if you are having it done. If your having it done, you might considered finding a program that works natively in the dxf format. That will give you a lot more control over the process. Corel draw and adobe illustrator are common programs that can work in dxf, there are many others. Once you have the file, your cutter should be able to convert the dxf to whatever they use if they cannot use dxf directly. Don't forget that you can often easily exceed the mfgs production tolerances making your part require fitting to each individual engine, panel, or whatever your making the part for. Kevin -----Original Message----- From: Gary L Vogt Sent: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 3:00 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Damn baffles I could be a smart ass and say, "Damn. That's a great idea. Who would have thought?" But I won't. Trust me paper won't get you to the .010 to .020 tolerance I build my baffles to. A coat hangar can be used to size brake line too. It'll get you close. But it won't fit worth a damn. When you install my baffles (the ones I've finalized), there is no trim to fit. On the baffles that failed MY criteria, it was because the holes in the #4 cylinder baffle with the holes for the nut plates, are off .050 inches. The holes in the left rear baffle for the oil cooler puts the oil cooler .025 inches too far outboard. Doesn't fit well without pushing and shoving. 15 pieces were scrapped. Now, I know I could have left all that bullshit trim-to-fit, that's the quality other STC holders build to (just ask Scott Jerigan). Why not do it right? Regrettably, the Rev A version of the left rear inner baffle wasn't approved by the FAA. Long story. So, it will need some trim to fit. The rest are minor changes. I can do those. Gary Sent from my iPad On Apr 14, 2011, at 9:26 PM, Airport Bum wrote: > > Your not doing it right! Samples are done in paper or vinyl before hard product is made. We do this stuff all the time. > > Kevin > > Gary Vogt wrote: > >> Can you believe almost $1200 for a set of baffles? >> >> Not only that, but, I still didn't get the hole spacing right on the #4/oil >> cooler match up. >> >> Damn. Lots of scrap aluminum. > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:25:39 AM PST US From: Gary Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Damn baffles Well, good point. Let me elaborate. 10 of the baffles are the oil cooler baffles. 5 with a large cutout. 5 with a small cutout. I should have only ordered the small ones. Too late now. The oil cooler hole itself is off too far. It needs to move in some. Shortening the entire part by .050 will do it, but then the holes to mount the oil cooler are off too much. The #4 cylinder baffle holes are too high. The oil cooler baffle won't fit without crowding the holes. These fit a lot tighter than the stock baffles. So, I'm going to change the baffles. Since I need a large oil cooler hole for my plane, everyone gets the large oil cooler hole. Gary ________________________________ From: flyv35b Sent: Fri, April 15, 2011 6:07:23 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Damn baffles On the baffles that failed MY criteria, it was because the holes in the #4 cylinder baffle with the holes for the nut plates, are off .050 inches. The holes in the left rear baffle for the oil cooler puts the oil cooler .025 inches too far outboard. Doesn't fit well without pushing and shoving. 15 pieces were scrapped. > Why would you have to scrap 15 pieces? Couldn't you just make a new rear baffle-the one the cooler is attached to? ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:25:53 AM PST US From: Gary Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Damn baffles I'm drawing them myself in AutoCad. ________________________________ From: Airport Bum Sent: Fri, April 15, 2011 7:22:32 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Damn baffles Gary, I'm just giving you a hard time, you know one smart ass helping another. We do often make multiple prototypes to get the close tolerances your looking for. It is a pain but it is worth it. Of course it helps to have the equipment in house. I'm not sure if you are doing the actual design work or if you are having it done. If your having it done, you might considered finding a program that works natively in the dxf format. That will give you a lot more control over the process. Corel draw and adobe illustrator are common programs that can work in dxf, there are many others. Once you have the file, your cutter should be able to convert the dxf to whatever they use if they cannot use dxf directly. Don't forget that you can often easily exceed the mfgs production tolerances making your part require fitting to each individual engine, panel, or whatever your making the part for. Kevin -----Original Message----- From: Gary L Vogt Sent: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 3:00 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Damn baffles I could be a smart ass and say, "Damn. That's a great idea. Who would have thought?" But I won't. Trust me paper won't get you to the .010 to .020 tolerance I build my baffles to. A coat hangar can be used to size brake line too. It'll get you close. But it won't fit worth a damn. When you install my baffles (the ones I've finalized), there is no trim to fit. On the baffles that failed MY criteria, it was because the holes in the #4 cylinder baffle with the holes for the nut plates, are off .050 inches. The holes in the left rear baffle for the oil cooler puts the oil cooler .025 inches too far outboard. Doesn't fit well without pushing and shoving. 15 pieces were scrapped. Now, I know I could have left all that bullshit trim-to-fit, that's the quality other STC holders build to (just ask Scott Jerigan). Why not do it right? Regrettably, the Rev A version of the left rear inner baffle wasn't approved by the FAA. Long story. So, it will need some trim to fit. The rest are minor changes. I can do those. Gary Sent from my iPad On Apr 14, 2011, at 9:26 PM, Airport Bum wrote: > > Your not doing it right! Samples are done in paper or vinyl before hard >product is made. We do this stuff all the time. > > Kevin > > Gary Vogt wrote: > >> Can you believe almost $1200 for a set of baffles? >> >> Not only that, but, I still didn't get the hole spacing right on the #4/oil >> cooler match up. >> >> Damn. Lots of scrap aluminum. > > > > > bsp; - List p; &==== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message teamgrumman-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.