---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 06/08/11: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:45 AM - Re: Re: Cooling exit ramp (Steve Roberts) 2. 08:54 PM - Re: Re: Cooling exit ramp (n32romeo@AOL.COM) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:45:57 AM PST US From: Steve Roberts Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Cooling exit ramp Looks cool to me... I'll start saving my pennies. :) Steve Roberts AA1B - 641HY @ ILG AYA Region 2 Director/Forum Admin Almost anything you do will be insignificant=2C but it is very important that you do it. - Mohandas Gandhi From: teamgrumman@yahoo.com Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Cooling exit ramp found it. From: Gary Vogt Sent: Fri=2C June 3=2C 2011 1:26:17 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Cooling exit ramp Hi Steve=2C Glad you like the eyebrow. I put my cowling on a 2-place. It looks pretty funny. I have a picture in iPhoto=2C but I can't find it. I have over 7 =2C000 photos in there. Gary From: Steve Roberts Sent: Fri=2C June 3=2C 2011 11:58:07 AM Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Cooling exit ramp Hey Gary=2C I like your eyebrow. Looks great on my two place. If I bought y our cowl could I make it fit my AA1 with a hacksaw=2C a grinder and some bo ndo? ROFLOL Steve Roberts AA1B - 641HY @ ILG AYA Region 2 Director/Forum Admin Almost anything you do will be insignificant=2C but it is very important that you do it. - Mohandas Gandhi From: teamgrumman@yahoo.com Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Cooling exit ramp WHAT? you mean the sky isn't falling? Damn. And I was so sure it was. From: Airport Bum Sent: Wed=2C June 1=2C 2011 10:21:42 AM Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Cooling exit ramp Actually I know both parties and I'm interested in the discussion. This is an interesting new product in a very tough market. Anytime a new p roduct comes the market it's bound to have growing pains. What makes the d ifference is how the vender handles the issue. I also think it's important to see customer feedback. Gary can be flowery and dramatic sometimes that's just his style. Net is a good guy=2C if a little high strung sometimes. At the end of the day they are both good guys=2C I hope they work it out and everyone goes home happy .. This is an open forum unlike the Levy gang where you get to hear Ron's opi nion on everything weather you ask for it or not. Kevin Scott Boyce wrote: >I don't know either one of you and I don't understand why I should be >interested in these personal vendettas between the two of you. Is this >really material for a public forum? It certainly does not add any value to >me as a Tiger owner. When I see certain posters on this list I usually >automatically hit the delete button without opening the email. Kinda like >dealing with spam. > > > >From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Vog t >Sent: Tuesday=2C May 31=2C 2011 9:27 PM >To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Cooling exit ramp > > > >Ned=2C > > > >If=2C as you say=2C your exit ramps look exactly like mine=2C why do you s ay shit >like "Try laying a straight edge on yours. I bet you'll find the same thin g. >If not then my cowl really has a lot more defects than I thought." I real ly >don't understand what your problem with the exit ramp is (or was). The >bottom of the ramp is fabricated flat (with some curvature to conform to t he >cowling). The cowling has it's own ramp. The two are faired together whe n >they are joined. It's pretty obvious. > > > >Here we go again "If you had done a better job when you installed the >cowling I would have had no squawks. Why didn't you check the engine >alignment as I ask you to do before you installed the Jaguar? Would have >saved a lot of grief." OK=2C Ned=2C just what did you want me to align it to? > > > >As I recall=2C you wanted this cowling done and installed in record time. To >help things along=2C to comply with your wishes=2C I used my plane to do a ll of >the initial fitting of the cowling. All of the work trimming was already >done when you got here. Your cowling fit great on my plane. > > > >I jeopardized my relationship with the FAA in order to get your 3 blade pr op >approved along with getting the airbox approved because I thought we were >friends. They wanted a complete flight test to show the 3 bladed prop had >no adverse interactions with the cowling. I called in a lot of favors and >made a lot of promises to get your plane approved and finished as quickly as >I did because I thought we were friends. > > > >I can get the cowling painted anywhere for $500 or less. I deducted $1000 >from the installed price because you said you didn't want it painted. I >gave you a good deal because I thought we were friends. And then you piss ed >and moaned about a $5 cam-loc you wanted replaced. And you wanted a >different right forward baffle so I gave you one. I gave you a baffle tha t >cost me $35 to have made. And then you had the balls to whine about a >cam-loc? Seriously=2C getting upset because you didn't get the $5 cam-loc you >wanted???? > > > >And the ONLY thanks I got from you was a report saying I forgot to tighten >the plug leads (not=2C Gary was so stressed getting my plane back together >that he forgot to tighten the plug leads)=2C the plane was slower=2C and y ou >weren't happy with the results. Then=2C on top of that=2C you wanted me t o sell >you another cowling at cost. > > > >Ned=2C nothing you've done or said since you left with the cowling has bee n or >sounded like something a friend of mine would have done. > > > >In comparison=2C I have another customer who has gone out of his way to wo rk >with me when he wanted something done. If I don't have his plane ready=2C he >either waits or comes over to help get another plane done so I can work on >his. He has bought me $100 bottles of single malt scotch on more than one >occasion=2C brings gifts for Clytie when he comes to pick up his plane=2C and >gave me a $100 bonus because he said I didn't charge enough for the time I >put into his wheel pants. In return=2C I sold him an eyebrow for $100=2C given >him instrument panel overlays=2C and he will be getting the cowling from m y >plane for $1000 when I get the new one Dave is making for me. This custom er >has never asked for anything extra or asked if I can sell something to him >cheaper or asked for anything for free. Unlike another customer of mine w ho >comes in and loads up on bottled water from my refrigerator (putting it in >his plane while he waits for me to get the plane out of the hangar)=2C he' s >not a cheap bastard. He leaves $5 in the fridge if he takes some water. I >like working with him. He's honest and doesn't expect something for >nothing. I consider him my friend. > > > >I never posted that I HAVE reported you to the FAA. > > > >Gary > > > > _____ > >From: discover <923te@att.net> >To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com >Sent: Tue=2C May 31=2C 2011 2:19:19 PM >Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Cooling exit ramp > > >I just got a call from a friend who mentioned this post from Gary about my >Jaguar cowling. Really for the life of me I don't understand where you are >coming from Gary. I have absolutely no interest in manufacturing or >competing on a cowling. You've got to be kidding! > >My exit ramps look exactly the same as your pictures Gary. >Let me say that again=2C My cowl is the same as yours=3B the pictures look >EXACTLEY the same. > >I have made no modifications to the cowling. > >I am doing a repair by adding length to the trailing edge of the cowling s o >that it can be aligned with the prop spinner. I don't believe am making it >any longer than it was in its pre-trimmed state. I am just trying to get i t >properly aligned to my Tiger. Again I have made no modifications. > >If you had done a better job when you installed the cowling I would have h ad >no squawks. Why didn't you check the engine alignment as I ask you to do >before you installed the Jaguar? Would have saved a lot of grief. > >As to why my engine ran rough remember posting this Gary: "As for the plug >wires not being tight=2C OOPs" > >That's kinda how I was looking at the whole cowling experience with you >Gary....you just had a lot of oops... > >But your making false accusations about me to the FAA puts this on a whole >different level. Do you really want to go to war over this? > >I see the posts we put here last fall where we discussed the poor fitting of >the cowl have been removed. At least I cannot locate them here now. Howeve r=2C >I do have pictures of how it was installed and how it was a poor fit. I ha ve >a copy of your emails wherein you agreed with me about this. >I'm sure my FSDO inspector will want to see all this information should it >actually go that far. Since you have made some kind of formal complaint to >the FAA perhaps I should as well? > >Please let me know if you want to make something of this or if you will >retract your false assertions to the FAA > >Gee Gary=2C I thought we were friends! > >When I flew home from your place with the new Jaguar cowl I found that it >did not cool any better List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List ttp://forums.matronics.com =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:54:00 PM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Cooling exit ramp From: n32romeo@AOL.COM Looks like it will need about a 12" prop extension. Modernized shades of Ken Blackman's AA-1C "Snout". Rich -----Original Message----- From: Steve Roberts Sent: Wed, Jun 8, 2011 9:39 am Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Cooling exit ramp Looks cool to me... I'll start saving my pennies. :) Steve Roberts AA1B - 641HY @ ILG AYA Region 2 Director/Forum Admin Almost anything you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it. - Mohandas Gandhi From: teamgrumman@yahoo.com Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Cooling exit ramp found it. From: Gary Vogt Sent: Fri, June 3, 2011 1:26:17 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Cooling exit ramp Hi Steve, Glad you like the eyebrow. I put my cowling on a 2-place. It looks prett y funny. I have a picture in iPhoto, but I can't find it. I have over 7, 000 photos in there. Gary From: Steve Roberts Sent: Fri, June 3, 2011 11:58:07 AM Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Cooling exit ramp Hey Gary, I like your eyebrow. Looks great on my two place. If I bought yo ur cowl could I make it fit my AA1 with a hacksaw, a grinder and some bond o? ROFLOL Steve Roberts AA1B - 641HY @ ILG AYA Region 2 Director/Forum Admin Almost anything you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it. - Mohandas Gandhi From: teamgrumman@yahoo.com Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Cooling exit ramp WHAT? you mean the sky isn't falling? Damn. And I was so sure it was. From: Airport Bum Sent: Wed, June 1, 2011 10:21:42 AM Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Cooling exit ramp Actually I know both parties and I'm interested in the discussion. This is an interesting new product in a very tough market. Anytime a new product comes the market it's bound to have growing pains. What makes th e difference is how the vender handles the issue. I also think it's impor tant to see customer feedback. Gary can be flowery and dramatic sometimes that's just his style. Net is a good guy, if a little high strung sometimes. At the end of the day the y are both good guys, I hope they work it out and everyone goes home happy .. This is an open forum unlike the Levy gang where you get to hear Ron's op inion on everything weather you ask for it or not. Kevin Scott Boyce wrote: >I don't know either one of you and I don't understand why I should be >interested in these personal vendettas between the two of you. Is this >really material for a public forum? It certainly does not add any value to >me as a Tiger owner. When I see certain posters on this list I usually >automatically hit the delete button without opening the email. Kinda like >dealing with spam. > > > >From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Vo gt >Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 9:27 PM >To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Cooling exit ramp > > > >Ned, > > > >If, as you say, your exit ramps look exactly like mine, why do you say sh it >like "Try laying a straight edge on yours. I bet you'll find the same thi ng. >If not then my cowl really has a lot more defects than I thought." I rea lly >don't understand what your problem with the exit ramp is (or was). The >bottom of the ramp is fabricated flat (with some curvature to conform to the >cowling). The cowling has it's own ramp. The two are faired together wh en >they are joined. It's pretty obvious. > > > >Here we go again "If you had done a better job when you installed the >cowling I would have had no squawks. Why didn't you check the engine >alignment as I ask you to do before you installed the Jaguar? Would have >saved a lot of grief." OK, Ned, just what did you want me to align it to ? > > > >As I recall, you wanted this cowling done and installed in record time. To >help things along, to comply with your wishes, I used my plane to do all of >the initial fitting of the cowling. All of the work trimming was already >done when you got here. Your cowling fit great on my plane. > > > >I jeopardized my relationship with the FAA in order to get your 3 blade prop >approved along with getting the airbox approved because I thought we were >friends. They wanted a complete flight test to show the 3 bladed prop ha d >no adverse interactions with the cowling. I called in a lot of favors an d >made a lot of promises to get your plane approved and finished as quickly as >I did because I thought we were friends. > > > >I can get the cowling painted anywhere for $500 or less. I deducted $100 0 >from the installed price because you said you didn't want it painted. I >gave you a good deal because I thought we were friends. And then you pis sed >and moaned about a $5 cam-loc you wanted replaced. And you wanted a >different right forward baffle so I gave you one. I gave you a baffle th at >cost me $35 to have made. And then you had the balls to whine about a >cam-loc? Seriously, getting upset because you didn't get the $5 cam-loc you >wanted???? > > > >And the ONLY thanks I got from you was a report saying I forgot to tighte n >the plug leads (not, Gary was so stressed getting my plane back together >that he forgot to tighten the plug leads), the plane was slower, and you >weren't happy with the results. Then, on top of that, you wanted me to sell >you another cowling at cost. > > > >Ned, nothing you've done or said since you left with the cowling has been or >sounded like something a friend of mine would have done. > > > >In comparison, I have another customer who has gone out of his way to wor k >with me when he wanted something done. If I don't have his plane ready, he >either waits or comes over to help get another plane done so I can work on >his. He has bought me $100 bottles of single malt scotch on more than on e >occasion, brings gifts for Clytie when he comes to pick up his plane, and >gave me a $100 bonus because he said I didn't charge enough for the time I >put into his wheel pants. In return, I sold him an eyebrow for $100, giv en >him instrument panel overlays, and he will be getting the cowling from my >plane for $1000 when I get the new one Dave is making for me. This custo mer >has never asked for anything extra or asked if I can sell something to hi m >cheaper or asked for anything for free. Unlike another customer of mine who >comes in and loads up on bottled water from my refrigerator (putting it in >his plane while he waits for me to get the plane out of the hangar), he's >not a cheap bastard. He leaves $5 in the fridge if he takes some water. I >like working with him. He's honest and doesn't expect something for >nothing. I consider him my friend. > > > >I never posted that I HAVE reported you to the FAA. > > > >Gary > > > > _____ > >From: discover <923te@att.net> >To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com >Sent: Tue, May 31, 2011 2:19:19 PM >Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Cooling exit ramp > > >I just got a call from a friend who mentioned this post from Gary about my >Jaguar cowling. Really for the life of me I don't understand where you ar e >coming from Gary. I have absolutely no interest in manufacturing or >competing on a cowling. You've got to be kidding! > >My exit ramps look exactly the same as your pictures Gary. >Let me say that again, My cowl is the same as yours; the pictures look >EXACTLEY the same. > >I have made no modifications to the cowling. > >I am doing a repair by adding length to the trailing edge of the cowling so >that it can be aligned with the prop spinner. I don't believe am making it >any longer than it was in its pre-trimmed state. I am just trying to get it >properly aligned to my Tiger. Again I have made no modifications. > >If you had done a better job when you installed the cowling I would have had >no squawks. Why didn't you check the engine alignment as I ask you to do >before you installed the Jaguar? Would have saved a lot of grief. > >As to why my engine ran rough remember posting this Gary: "As for the plu g >wires not being tight, OOPs" > >That's kinda how I was looking at the whole cowling experience with you >Gary....you just had a lot of oops... > >But your making false accusations about me to the FAA puts this on a whol e >different level. Do you really want to go to war over this? > >I see the posts we put here last fall where we discussed the poor fitting of >the cowl have been removed. At least I cannot locate them here now. Howev er, >I do have pictures of how it was installed and how it was a poor fit. I have >a copy of your emails wherein you agreed with me about this. >I'm sure my FSDO inspector will want to see all this information should it >actually go that far. Since you have made some kind of formal complaint to >the FAA perhaps I should as well? > >Please let me know if you want to make something of this or if you will >retract your false assertions to the FAA > >Gee Gary, I thought we were friends! > >When I flew home from your place with the new Jaguar cowl I found that it >did not cool any better List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ======================== =========== -= - The TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message teamgrumman-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.