---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 06/12/11: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 11:14 AM - Re: AD 95-19-15 R1 and SB-185A (Gary Vogt) 2. 11:38 AM - Re: Jaguar cowl installation notes on Bondline (Gary Vogt) 3. 10:12 PM - Jaguar Cowling questions Part 5 - painting (bvnj@yahoo.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 11:14:20 AM PST US From: Gary Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AD 95-19-15 R1 and SB-185A I still don't have an answer. =0A=0AThe real question is: which has prece dence over the other? Are ADs the final =0Aword? Or is the Service Bullet in the final word?=0AMaybe the real question is: what do you think takes p recedence?=0A=0A=0ASB-185A: Within the next 100 hours of time in service or the next scheduled =0Ainspection, after accumulating 1000 hours total ti me in service of the bolts, =0Athen each 500 hours thereafter, accomplish t he following:=0A=0A=0AAD 95-19-15 R1=0A=0AWhat Must I Do To Address This Pr oblem?=0A(e) To address this problem, you must do the following, unless alr eady done:=0A - - - this tells me I don't need to do it again after I did t he Service =0ABulletin OR the original AD=0A=0AActions=0A(1) Inspect any in board wing attach shoulder bolt for:=0A(i) Fretting, scoring, or wear (remo val of the cad plating) to the shoulder of =0Athe bolt=0A(ii) A smooth mach ined area between the threads and the shoulder bevel of =0Athe shoulder bol t profile=0A=0ACompliance =0AWithin the next 100 hours aircraft time-in-ser vice (TIS) after November 17, 1995 =0A(the effective date of AD 95=93 19=9315, unless already done=0A - - - this tells me I don't need to d o it again after I did the Service =0ABulletin OR the original AD=0A=0AProc edures =0AFollow American General Aircraft Corporation Service Bulletin No. SB=93185=93A, =0ARevision A, dated January 10, 2005.=0A=0A=0AA ctions=0A(2) Replace any inboard wing attach shoulder bolt with wear (remov al of the cad =0Aplating from the shoulder of the bolt) =0Aor if the thread s contact the shoulder of the bolt found during the inspections =0Arequired in paragraph (e)(1) of this AD=0A=0ACompliance=0ABefore further flight aft er the inspection required by paragraph (e)(1) of this =0AAD =0A - - - this tells me I don't need to do it again after I did the Service =0ABulletin O R the original AD=0A=0AProcedures =0AFollow American General Aircraft Corpo ration Service Bulletin No. SB=93185=93A, =0ARevision A, dated January 10, 2005.=0A=0A=0AActions=0A(3) Inspect the mounting holes in the w ing spar and the center section spar =0Afor enlargement or elongation that exceeds the specified dimension=0A=0ACompliance=0AWithin the next 100 hours aircraft time-in-service (TIS) after November 17, 1995 =0A(the effective d ate of AD 95=9319=9315), unless already done=0A - - - this tell s me I don't need to do it again after I did the Service =0ABulletin OR the original AD=0A=0A=0AProcedures=0AFollow American General Aircraft Corporat ion Service Bulletin No. SB=93185=93A, =0ARevision A, dated Jan uary 10, 2005.=0A=0A=0AActions=0A(4) Ream and bush any mounting hole that e xceeds the specified dimension =0Afound during the inspection required by p aragraph (e)(3) of this AD=0A=0ACompliance=0ABefore further flight after th e inspection required by paragraph (e)(3) of this =0AAD - - - this tells m e I don't need to do it again after I did the Service =0ABulletin OR the or iginal AD=0A=0A=0AProcedures=0AFollow American General Aircraft Corporation Service Bulletin No. SB=93185=93A, =0ARevision A, dated Januar y 10, 2005=0A=0A=0AActions=0A(5) Inspect the wing spar at the center spar c learance gap for excessive =0Aclearance, and shim the spar if excessive cle arance is found=0A=0ACompliance=0ABefore further flight after the inspectio ns required by paragraphs (e)(1) and =0A(e)(3) of this AD=0A - - - this tel ls me I don't need to do it again after I did the Service =0ABulletin OR th e original AD=0A=0AProcedures=0AFollow American General Aircraft Corporatio n Service Bulletin No. SB=93185=93A, =0ARevision A, dated Janua ry 10, 2005.=0A=0A=0AActions=0A(6) Do not install any wing attach shoulder bolt that has wear resulting in =0Aremoval of the cad plating from the shou lder of the bolt =0Aor if the threads contact the shoulder bevel of the sho ulder bolt profile=0A=0ACompliance=0AAs of October 3, 2005 (the effective d ate of this AD)=0A=0AProcedures=0ANot Applicable.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___________ _____________________=0AFrom: Gary Vogt =0ATo: teamg rumman-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sat, June 11, 2011 10:17:35 AM=0ASubject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AD 95-19-15 R1 and SB-185A=0A=0A=0Athe plane I check ed had 500 hours since the installing new bolts. I mic'd the =0Abolts with a digital mic that goes to .0001. I compared them to new bolts. =0A Even without the cad plating, the bolts measured the same. =0A=0AMaybe someone should ask Ron.=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: flyv35b =0ATo: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sat, June 11, 2011 5:41:44 AM=0ASubject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AD 95-19-15 R1 inetfiber.com>=0A=0AI agree. The AD is NOT recurring. If it was performed properly and the wing =0Aspar clearance is correct and/or was shimmed prop erly if needed then that =0Adoesn't change and the only thing beneficial wo uld be to check the spar bolt =0Atorque to see if they are secure. There h ave been some bolt failures, possibly =0Adue to loose fitting wing spars wh ich worked back and forth and apparently =0Aloaded the bolts causing fatigu e failure. And of course bolts could have been =0Aover torqued. The AD ca me about after American General replaced a bunch of =0Awings that were hail damaged at the factory sitting outside. Draw your own =0Aconclusions.=0A =0ACliff=0A=0AOn 6/11/2011 2:31 AM, Deems Herring wrote:=0A> The AD must be completed . Service bulletins are never mandatory for=0A> part 91 operati ons. The AD reference to the SB is simply giving you an=0A> acceptable way to=0A> accomplish the requirements of the AD. As always you can apply for =0A> permission to use an alternative method of compliance and if approved =0A> you would never be required to perform the actions in the SB. Only the =0A> FAA can make actions mandatory. Whether it is prudent to perform SB 18 5A=0A> on a repetitive basis is a different question.=0A> =0A> Deems=0A> =0A> teamgrumman@yahoo.com=0A> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AD 95-19-15 R 1 and SB-185A=0A> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 22:50:30 -0700=0A> To: teamgrumman -list@matronics.com=0A> =0A> Did this go out to the TeamGrumman-list? I tho ======================== =0A ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:38:00 AM PST US From: Gary Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowl installation notes on Bondline Boris wrote: "I have put 2 spacers on the top right mount and 2 spacers on the bottom right mount. The left mounts have one spacer each." How was the alignment to your original cowling before you started? How much changed with the installation of the Jaguar cowling? Boris wrote: "Rivets to attach the upper cowl halves to the hinge - cherry-max countersunk head 1/8". 38 rivets - 19 on each side. Install manual asks for CR3212-4-2. According to Aircraft spruce those have grip range 0.63 to .125. I measured hinge thickness + upper cowl thickness = 0.142". Maybe CR3212-4-3 is better? Ordered CR3212-4-2 anyway. Those require drill #30, Aircraft Spruce part 12-04217 and #30 countersink, Aircraft Spruce part 12-00880. The cage for countersinks is Spruce part 12-00940. " - - - - This is a gray area. The layup procedure calls for extra plies along the hinge attach. In theory, the hinge line has a thickness of about .055 to .060 inches. Boris wrote: "Nutplates to hold lower cowling halves together. 9 on the bottom + 3 on top. There are also 2 to hold upper cowling halves to lower cowling. Total 14. Install manual asks for MS21048-L-08. I believe Manual says 'countersunk' by mistake. I found those on www.cessnadirect.com. AircraftSpruce has MS21047L08. Aren't they the same? " - - - - The difference is the MS21048-L-08 won't rust. Boris wrote: "I decided to take a middle road - leave the vertical alignment as is and center the Jaguar cowl vertically with the spinner back plate." - - - - When everything is together, grab your prop and lift it as hard as you can. Your spinner will be 1/8 inch or so above the cowling. Just watch the alternator to cowling clearance. Boris wrote: "Install instructions don't mention this, but you have to remove the nose strut fairing boot. If you don't want to cut it off, you will have to remove the nose strut." - - - - Good point. I just cut them off. I'll add something to the install manual. Thank you for the time you've taken to record your experiences. ________________________________ From: b v Sent: Sat, June 11, 2011 12:05:24 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar cowl installation notes on Bondline Hi Gary, thank you for help with color codes. I looked in my log books and didn't find any record of any paint job, so I still think that it's the original paint. The blue colors have plenty of chips and nicks but somehow they look fresher and shinier then the white. I will take better pictures and will check if somebody on GG will recognize the colors. If not, I will have to trust the paint shop guy. I have put 2 spacers on the top right mount and 2 spacers on the bottom right mount. The left mounts have one spacer each. I started saving my installation notes on Bondline: http://www.bondline.org/wiki/Installing_AuCountry_Jaguar_Cowl_on_my_AA5-B When you get a chance, please take a look. I would like to know what you think. Thank you, -Boris > Time: 07:55:37 PM PST US > From: Gary Vogt > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: paint code question for > Jaguar cowl > > Hi Boris, > If the white is still the original 817U, it will buff out nicely. Odds are, if the blue is still shiny, it's been repainted. The colors on the 70's era Grummans are RM Centauri Acrylic Enamel. It's not baked on. Also, the colors are not custom colors. The orange, for example, is the orange from a 73 Volkswagon. The metallic brown is from a Dodge or Plymouth of around the same year. I'm sure if you take your ELT cover to an automotive paint store and try to match paint colors from 73 on, you'll find yours. Also, DuPont has totally revised the paint codes for paint sold in California. So, the numbers may not match up. Most paint stores have the old codes though. So, tell us, how's the installation going? How many shims on the engine mounts did you need? Gary ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:12:04 PM PST US From: bvnj@yahoo.com Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Jaguar Cowling questions Part 5 - painting Hi Gary, I need a little help with painting. Unfortunately my only painting experienc e is the walls in my house. What is the gray stuff on the outside surface of the cowls? A friend of mine saw it and said "gel coat". Is it a gel coat or is it 6 coats of k-36 ureth ane primer you mentioned earlier? The instructions say "prime with two part epoxy primer". If there are 6 coat s of primer already, do I still need to prime on top of it? Should I use the same k-36 primer? If not, could you please recommend one? D o they sell it in the local auto paint store? If not, where can I buy it? Normally I find things like that on the net but there is just too much info o n painting. Gives me brain overload. Thank you, Boris. On Jun 6, 2011, at 3:00 PM, Gary Vogt wrote: > ... I prime with 6 coats of K-36, thinned 20%. K-36 is a high build uret hane primer. Block sand the first time with 120. Prime again with one or 2 coats as needed. Block sand with 320. > > Gary > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message teamgrumman-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.