---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 08/26/11: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:36 AM - AG5B Alternator Light (busdriver) 2. 11:18 AM - Re: AG5B Alternator Light (923te) 3. 11:24 AM - Re: AG5B Alternator Light (Gary Vogt) 4. 11:48 AM - Re: AG5B Alternator Light (Gary Vogt) 5. 12:02 PM - Re: AG5B Alternator Light (923te) 6. 04:32 PM - Re: AG5B Alternator Light (busdriver) 7. 05:15 PM - Re: Re: AG5B Alternator Light (Gary Vogt) 8. 05:15 PM - Re: Re: AG5B Alternator Light (923te) 9. 07:03 PM - Re: Re: AG5B Alternator Light (923te) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:36:04 AM PST US Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B Alternator Light From: "busdriver" I have a 2001 AG5B with an intermittent flickering alternator light. My JPI EDM 700 always shows over 28vdc- so the alternator is definitely charging. I have changed the voltage regulator but the flickering light remains. Also, alternator will often not come on line after start up but will after turning the alt side of the master off and then back on. Any suggestions? Thank you in advance. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350642#350642 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:18:40 AM PST US From: 923te <923te@att.net> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B Alternator Light Can you describe the light you are talking about? Where is it located and what color it is? What make of regulator have you? On my 2001AG5B I have a light next to the key start that flickers after starting. However, It is not an alternator light. It is a starter engaged light. With a permenant magnet starter, such as the Skytek, after starter release the starter winds down but is charging the light circuit which causes the light to flicker. If you don't have this type of starter then this light may indicate a tired bendix. My Tiger has the voltage regulator on the firewall on the copilot side. The regulator has lights built into it that can be used to determine a problem. If you do indeed have an alternator light on the panel then it could be erroneously indicating a voltage problem. Does it stop flickering with increased RPM? The manual says up to 32volts is ok so you can check your charging circuit and determine if you have an overvoltage or just an indicator calibration issue Ned Sent from my iPhone On Aug 26, 2011, at 11:33 AM, "busdriver" wrote: > > I have a 2001 AG5B with an intermittent flickering alternator light. My JPI EDM 700 always shows over 28vdc- so the alternator is definitely charging. I have changed the voltage regulator but the flickering light remains. Also, alternator will often not come on line after start up but will after turning the alt side of the master off and then back on. Any suggestions? Thank you in advance. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350642#350642 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:24:14 AM PST US From: Gary Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B Alternator Light Unfortunately, the good folks at American General took a really simple and effective electrical system and fucked the hell out of it. -It was probab ly designed by the same guy that designed the stupid air intake for the car b. -=0A=0AHere is what I found on an AG5B that I did a firewall forward o n.=0A=0AAfter detailing the firewall, getting the freshly powder coated bat tery mount (silver), the powder coated engine mount (white), and new relays (battery and starter) connected to their respective wiring, I was anxious to get power back on the plane. -I put the charged battery into the mount , ran a jumper to the grounding lug on the engine mount, and turned on the master; nothing. -Ok, so, bad ground. -I ran another smaller jumper to the primer (remember, it has that funky Murphy valve for a primer) mount; s till nothing. -=0A=0AAre you familiar with the Cannon plug that comes out of the firewall? -One of the wires goes to the back of the vacuum filter for a ground. -I have always thought that looked cheesy. -SOOOOO. -I installed a stud on the firewall not too far off center and adjacent to th e Cannon plug. -The idea was to collect the 4 or 5 grounds on the firewal l side of the AG5B and put them all on the same ground. -What a concept. -=0A=0AOver the next couple of hours, I routed, stretched, and shortened all of the ground wires until they fit nicely on the stud. -Just out of c uriosity, I connected the ground side of the battery jumper to the stud; -Power. -So, I began removing each wire on the grounding stud until I f ound the one that turns-on-the-lights. -Folks, the airplane is not ground ed. -All of the power in your AG5B depends on one wire coming out of the cannon plug. -=0A=0AI also eliminated the black box for the ammeter shunt . -That shunt should be on the other side of the firewall, but that's ano ther story.=0A=0AI would take the cover off that black box and start checki ng wires. -Follow them to the alternator and back to the buss (through th e black box). -=0A=0AI've also seen, on a Tiger with less than 100 hours on it, where the-terminal lug on the-ground cable from the battery to t he engine block fractured at the lug on the engine. -They had that thing tied so tight and did not provide a short section for movement. -=0A=0AGa ry=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: busdriver =0ATo: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, August 26, 2 011 9:33 AM=0ASubject: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B Alternator Light=0A=0A--> Tea mGrumman-List message posted by: "busdriver" =0A=0AI have a 2001 AG5B with an intermittent flickering alternator light.- My JP I EDM 700 always shows over 28vdc- so the alternator is definitely charging .- I have changed the voltage regulator but the flickering light remains. - Also, alternator will often not come on line after start up but will af ter turning the alt side of the master off and then back on. Any suggestion s?- Thank you in advance.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A =0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350642#350642=0A=0A=0A=0A ==================== ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:48:43 AM PST US From: Gary Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B Alternator Light Ned,=0A=0AIf you look under that black box, you won't find a voltage regula tor. -Unless you put your regulator there. -I don't recall Bert's plane as having a regulator on the firewall. -If I'm not mistaken, it's under the panel. -=0A=0ASend a pic.=0A=0AGary=0A=0A=0A_________________________ _______=0AFrom: 923te <923te@att.net>=0ATo: "teamgrumman-list@matronics.com " =0ASent: Friday, August 26, 2011 11:15 AM =0ASubject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B Alternator Light=0A=0A--> TeamGrumma n-List message posted by: 923te <923te@att.net>=0A=0ACan you describe the l ight you are talking about? Where is it located and what color it is? What make of regulator have you?=0A=0AOn my 2001AG5B I have a light next to the key start that flickers after starting. However, It is not an alternator li ght. It is a starter engaged light. With a permenant magnet starter, such a s the Skytek, after starter release the starter winds down but is charging the light circuit which causes the light to flicker. If you don't have this type of starter then this light may indicate a tired bendix. My Tiger has - the voltage regulator- on the firewall on the copilot side. The regul ator has lights built into it that can be used to determine a problem. =0A =0AIf you do indeed have an alternator light on the panel then it could be erroneously indicating a voltage problem. Does it stop flickering with incr eased RPM?=0A=0AThe manual says- up to 32volts is ok so you can check you r charging circuit and determine if you have an overvoltage or just an indi cator calibration issue=0A=0ANed=0ASent from my iPhone=0A=0AOn Aug 26, 2011 , at 11:33 AM, "busdriver" wrote:=0A=0A> --> TeamGru mman-List message posted by: "busdriver" =0A> =0A> I have a 2001 AG5B with an intermittent flickering alternator light.- My JP I EDM 700 always shows over 28vdc- so the alternator is definitely charging .- I have changed the voltage regulator but the flickering light remains. - Also, alternator will often not come on line after start up but will af ter turning the alt side of the master off and then back on. Any suggestion s?- Thank you in advance.=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> Read this topic online here:=0A> =0A> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350642#350642 ============= ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:02:25 PM PST US From: "923te" <923te@att.net> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B Alternator Light My ACU (regulator) is under the panel attached to the firewall, ie, on the cockpit side of the firewall....not in the cheezy black box that has the ammeter shunt in it For a picture see attached PDF from the manual ned ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Vogt To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 1:45 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B Alternator Light Ned, If you look under that black box, you won't find a voltage regulator. Unless you put your regulator there. I don't recall Bert's plane as having a regulator on the firewall. If I'm not mistaken, it's under the panel. Send a pic. Gary ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: 923te <923te@att.net> To: "teamgrumman-list@matronics.com" Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 11:15 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AG5B Alternator Light Can you describe the light you are talking about? Where is it located and what color it is? What make of regulator have you? On my 2001AG5B I have a light next to the key start that flickers after starting. However, It is not an alternator light. It is a starter engaged light. With a permenant magnet starter, such as the Skytek, after starter release the starter winds down but is charging the light circuit which causes the light to flicker. If you don't have this type of starter then this light may indicate a tired bendix. My Tiger has the voltage regulator on the firewall on the copilot side. The regulator has lights built into it that can be used to determine a problem. If you do indeed have an alternator light on the panel then it could be erroneously indicating a voltage problem. Does it stop flickering with increased RPM? The manual says up to 32volts is ok so you can check your charging circuit and determine if you have an overvoltage or just an indicator calibration issue Ned Sent from my iPhone On Aug 26, 2011, at 11:33 AM, "busdriver" wrote: > > I have a 2001 AG5B with an intermittent flickering alternator light. My JPI EDM 700 always shows over 28vdc- so the alternator is definitely charging. I have changed the voltage regulator but the flickering light remains. Also, alternator will often not come on line after start up but will after turning the alt side of the master off and then back on. Any suggestions? Thank you in advance. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350642#350642 > > > > > http://forums.matronics. tronics.com/contribution" ====== ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:32:35 PM PST US Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: AG5B Alternator Light From: "busdriver" Ned and Gary, Thank you both very much for the quick, and thorough, responses. Ill attach a picture of the amber Alternator light- top left panel. I have the Zeftronics 24v solid state voltage regulator- just like the one in your picture. The light will flicker intermittently regardless of RPM. It may remain off for over an hour of flight and then begin to flicker (with no change in charging voltage as noted on the EDM 700). This system does seem way more complicated than it has to be. I have flown experimentals with GM alternators/ internal regulators that never missed a beat. Gary- I will start checking the grounds and the connections sounds like I have some work ahead of me. Am I correct in treating this as an indicating problem and not a charging problem? I can verify proper alternator operation with the EDM 700 and the load meter/ voltmeter. Thanks again for all of your help! -Curt Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350688#350688 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/curts_pics_029_198.jpg ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:15:50 PM PST US From: Gary Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: AG5B Alternator Light Curt,=0A=0AIn general, the indicator on an AA5B only indicates if the ALT s ide of the Master is on and therefore putting power to the field. =C2-It' s possible the one in an AG5B does the same. =C2-Check the back of the Ma ster and make sure the connections are tight. =C2-I remember having a pro blem with a Cheetah (no light) that made the amp needle wiggle. =C2-It wa s a loose connection on the Master Switch. =C2-May or may not have anythi ng to do with an AG5B, but, what the heck.=0A=0AGary=0A=0A=0A______________ __________________=0AFrom: busdriver =0ATo: teamgrumm an-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, August 26, 2011 4:29 PM=0ASubject: Te amGrumman-List: Re: AG5B Alternator Light=0A=0A--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "busdriver" =0A=0ANed and Gary,=0AThank y ou both very much for the quick, and thorough, responses.=C2- I=99l l attach a picture of the amber Alternator light- top left panel.=C2- I h ave the Zeftronics 24v solid state voltage regulator- just like the one in your picture.=C2- The light will flicker intermittently regardless of RPM .=C2- It may remain off for over an hour of flight and then begin to flic ker (with no change in charging voltage as noted on the EDM 700).=0AThis sy stem does seem way more complicated than it has to be.=C2- I have flown e xperimentals with GM alternators/ internal regulators that never missed a b eat. =0AGary- I will start checking the grounds and the connections sounds like I have some work ahead of me.=C2- Am I correct in treatin g this as an =9Cindicating=9D problem and not a =9Cchargi ng=9D problem?=C2- I can verify proper alternator operation with th e EDM 700 and the load meter/ voltmeter.=C2- Thanks again for all of your help!=0A-Curt=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forum s.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350688#350688=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AAttachments: =0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/curts_pics_029_198.jpg=0A=0A=0A=0A =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ===== ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:15:50 PM PST US From: 923te <923te@att.net> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: AG5B Alternator Light Curt I agree with Gary about you may have an intermittent ground. I had one about to happen when the starter relay wire fell off on my hand. I too have flown experimentals with internal regulators. I would encourage you to do anything you can to change it to a controllable external regulator. Or wire it with a relay. I had the internal one fail and start pumping 30 volts into my 12 volt battery. There is no way to shut an imternal regulatir off when this happens See Bob Knuckols at aeroelectric.com and on matronics.com for all the details on this and how to isolate the beast. By the time I got the plane on the ground the battery was fried. I was fortunate that it did not blow up and make a mess like one did in my mother inlaws car! Ned Sent from my iPhone On Aug 26, 2011, at 6:29 PM, "busdriver" wrote: > > Ned and Gary, > Thank you both very much for the quick, and thorough, responses. Ill attach a picture of the amber Alternator light- top left panel. I have the Zeftronics 24v solid state voltage regulator- just like the one in your picture. The light will flicker intermittently regardless of RPM. It may remain off for over an hour of flight and then begin to flicker (with no change in charging voltage as noted on the EDM 700). > This system does seem way more complicated than it has to be. I have flown experimentals with GM alternators/ internal regulators that never missed a beat. > Gary- I will start checking the grounds and the connections sounds like I have some work ahead of me. Am I correct in treating this as an indicating problem and not a charging problem? I can verify proper alternator operation with the EDM 700 and the load meter/ voltmeter. Thanks again for all of your help! > -Curt > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350688#350688 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/curts_pics_029_198.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:53 PM PST US From: "923te" <923te@att.net> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: AG5B Alternator Light That reminds me that my light used to flicker and my avionics guy told me to spray electrical cleaner into the master switch and work it on and off a bunch. That did away with the flicker. I took the battery ground cable off first. It would be worth trying Ned ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Vogt To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 7:13 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: AG5B Alternator Light Curt, In general, the indicator on an AA5B only indicates if the ALT side of the Master is on and therefore putting power to the field. It's possible the one in an AG5B does the same. Check the back of the Master and make sure the connections are tight. I remember having a problem with a Cheetah (no light) that made the amp needle wiggle. It was a loose connection on the Master Switch. May or may not have anything to do with an AG5B, but, what the heck. Gary ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: busdriver To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 4:29 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: AG5B Alternator Light Ned and Gary, Thank you both very much for the quick, and thorough, responses. I=99ll attach a picture of the amber Alternator light- top left panel. I have the Zeftronics 24v solid state voltage regulator- just like the one in your picture. The light will flicker intermittently regardless of RPM. It may remain off for over an hour of flight and then begin to flicker (with no change in charging voltage as noted on the EDM 700). This system does seem way more complicated than it has to be. I have flown experimentals with GM alternators/ internal regulators that never missed a beat. Gary- I will start checking the grounds and the connections sounds like I have some work ahead of me. Am I correct in treating this as an =9Cindicating=9D problem and not a =9Ccharging=9D problem? I can verify proper alternator operation with the EDM 700 and the load meter/ voltmeter. Thanks again for all of your help! -Curt Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350688#350688 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/curts_pics_029_198.jpamGrumman-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGr --> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message teamgrumman-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.