Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:13 AM - Re: AA5 - Winglets (923te)
2. 06:29 AM - Re: AA5 - Winglets (Andrew Kuzyk)
3. 06:40 AM - Re: AA5 - Winglets (923te)
4. 07:21 AM - AA5 - Winglets (ArjayS@AOL.COM)
5. 07:27 AM - Tiger info (Airport Bum)
6. 10:56 AM - Re: AA5 - Winglets (Andrew Kuzyk)
7. 11:11 AM - Re: AA5 - Winglets (ArjayS@AOL.COM)
8. 11:18 AM - Re: AA5 - Winglets (Andrew Kuzyk)
9. 12:01 PM - Re: AA5 - Winglets (Gary Vogt)
10. 02:04 PM - Re: AA5 - Winglets (Bruce Smith)
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| Subject: | Re: AA5 - Winglets |
Gary,
Do you mean winglets or wingtips?
ned
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Vogt
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 11:33 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA5 - Winglets
Funny you should ask. I have teh drawings and the beginning of a mock
up. Wheel pants are next.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Andrew Kuzyk <andrew@entro.com>
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 7:53 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AA5 - Winglets
Has a winglet mod been made available for the AA5?
Andrew
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: AA5 - Winglets |
Winglets. They are supposed to reduce/eliminate wingtip vortices
thereby increasing speed, and fuel efficiency maybe wing loading. I
have some loose drawings but I wouldn't know how to calculate what the
effect would be. Would winglets add much to the AA5?
Andrew
Andrew Kuzyk BID, ACIDO, RGD // Partner
Entro Communications
122 Parliament St.
Toronto, Canada M5A 2Y8
T: 416-368-6988 x 222
M: 416-706-4490
F: 416-368-5616
www.entro.com
On Aug 30, 2011, at 9:13 AM, 923te wrote:
> Gary,
> Do you mean winglets or wingtips?
> ned
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gary Vogt
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 11:33 PM
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA5 - Winglets
>
> Funny you should ask. I have teh drawings and the beginning of a mock
up. Wheel pants are next.
>
> From: Andrew Kuzyk <andrew@entro.com>
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 7:53 PM
> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AA5 - Winglets
>
> Has a winglet mod been made available for the AA5?
>
> Andrew
>
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| Subject: | Re: AA5 - Winglets |
On my lancair winglets add lift but also drag at lower altitudes but at
higher altitudes they add controllability and the additional drag over
the original wingtip is not so much up high. Without the winglets its
pretty hard to fly by hand over about 22000 ft.
Don't know that winglets would be a benefit to a Tiger that flies down
low but I think there is room for drag reduction and weight reduction
over the factory wingtips.
Message 4
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You are correct on all counts. There IS a little benefit on an AA5 wing but
not a lot. However everthing counts and a knot here and there adds up.
However, the biggest issue is certification and that is a big issue (read:
expensive). Among other issues you are talking about a compete spin program
. I'm
getting dizzy just thinking about it.
Rj Siegel CEO/LoPresti Aviation Engineering
> On my lancair winglets add lift but also drag at lower altitudes but at
> higher altitudes they add controllability and the additional drag over th
e
> original wingtip is not so much up high. Without the winglets its pretty
> hard to fly by hand over about 22000 ft.
> -
> Don't know that winglets would be a benefit to a Tiger that flies down
> low-but I think there is room for drag reduction and weight reduction o
ver
> the factory wingtips.
>
>
Message 5
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Ned,
Since you have lots of time in the tiger and pay attention to the details,
could you share with me what your settings, temps, speeds etc are during va
rious fazes of flight?- What do you see in climb, cruise, and decent?-
I'm not liking what I'm seeing and Fletcher did not find anything obvious.
-- I'll be pulling the cowling for a closer look, but so far nothing st
ands out as being below standard.
Kevin
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: AA5 - Winglets |
Hi RJ,
I spoke with David Fletcher a while back, he mentioned someone had
produced winglets but did not think that any where sold. So there may
be winglets with all the appropriate paper work in someone's basement
collecting dust. It may not have sold due minimal performance increase
at maximum cost but then again maybe there is enough of a performance
justification.
Andrew
Andrew Kuzyk BID, ACIDO, RGD // Partner
Entro Communications
122 Parliament St.
Toronto, Canada M5A 2Y8
T: 416-368-6988 x 222
M: 416-706-4490
F: 416-368-5616
www.entro.com
On Aug 30, 2011, at 10:19 AM, ArjayS@AOL.COM wrote:
> You are correct on all counts. There IS a little benefit on an AA5
wing but not a lot. However everthing counts and a knot here and there
adds up. However, the biggest issue is certification and that is a big
issue (read: expensive). Among other issues you are talking about a
compete spin program. I'm getting dizzy just thinking about it.
> Rj Siegel CEO/LoPresti Aviation Engineering
>
>> On my lancair winglets add lift but also drag at lower altitudes but
at higher altitudes they add controllability and the additional drag
over the original wingtip is not so much up high. Without the winglets
its pretty hard to fly by hand over about 22000 ft.
>>
>> Don't know that winglets would be a benefit to a Tiger that flies
down low but I think there is room for drag reduction and weight
reduction over the factory wingtips.
>>
>
>
>
>
>
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: AA5 - Winglets |
Hi Andrew
Yes, there are winglets with NONE of the appropriate paperwork, which is
why it's in Steve Millers basement. When he found out how much it would cos
t
to certify (after three years of fighting a losing battle) he tossed it in
the corner.
> Hi RJ, -
>
> I spoke with David Fletcher a while back, he mentioned someone had
> produced winglets but did not think that any where sold. -So there may
be winglets
> with all the appropriate paper work in someone's basement collecting dust
.
> It may not have sold due minimal performance increase at maximum cost but
> then again maybe there is enough of a performance justification.
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: AA5 - Winglets |
Hi RJ,
I guess there is no way that one can get a field certification (don't
know what the proper term is) without having to go through all the hoops
before seeing its viability. Where they ever installed and tested on an
AA5? I'm interested if there was any benefit to the overall
performance.
Andrew
Andrew Kuzyk BID, ACIDO, RGD // Partner
Entro Communications
122 Parliament St.
Toronto, Canada M5A 2Y8
T: 416-368-6988 x 222
M: 416-706-4490
F: 416-368-5616
www.entro.com
On Aug 30, 2011, at 2:08 PM, ArjayS@aol.com wrote:
> Hi Andrew
> Yes, there are winglets with NONE of the appropriate paperwork, which
is why it's in Steve Millers basement. When he found out how much it
would cost to certify (after three years of fighting a losing battle) he
tossed it in the corner.
>
>> Hi RJ,
>>
>> I spoke with David Fletcher a while back, he mentioned someone had
produced winglets but did not think that any where sold. So there may
be winglets with all the appropriate paper work in someone's basement
collecting dust. It may not have sold due minimal performance increase
at maximum cost but then again maybe there is enough of a performance
justification.
>>
>
>
NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: AA5 - Winglets |
A little of both. -It's a modified wingtip. -Calculations show a 1-3% i
ncrease in speed at 10,000 feet. -Worth it? -No. -But they look bitch
in'=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: 923te <923te@att.net>
=0ATo: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 6:13
AM=0ASubject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA5 - Winglets=0A=0A=0A =0AGary,=0ADo
you mean winglets or wingtips?=0Aned=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A>Fro
m: Gary Vogt =0A>To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Monday, Augu
st 29, 2011 11:33 PM=0A>Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA5 - Winglets=0A>
=0A>=0A>Funny you should ask. -I have teh drawings and the beginning of
a mock up. -Wheel pants are next.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>________________________
________=0A> From: Andrew Kuzyk <andrew@entro.com>=0A>To: teamgrumman-list@
matronics.com=0A>Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 7:53 PM=0A>Subject: TeamGru
mman-List: AA5 - Winglets=0A>=0A>=0A>Has a winglet mod been made available
for the AA5? =0A>=0A>=0A>Andrew=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIAL
ITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is
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re not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to a
n intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, diss
emination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is s
trictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance
upon this communication. If you received this communication in error or wit
hout authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwi
se and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk
drive, or other storage medium. =0A>h --> http://www.matronics.com/con=
=============== =0A>=0A>=0A>href="http://ww
w.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga
tor?TeamGrumman-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matr
onics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matro
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: AA5 - Winglets |
Gary,
Something like these?
http://www.minix.fr/english/abstract.php
Bruce
On Aug 30, 2011, at 2:58 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
> A little of both. It's a modified wingtip. Calculations show a 1-3% increase
in speed at 10,000 feet. Worth it? No. But they look bitchin'
>
> From: 923te <923te@att.net>
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 6:13 AM
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA5 - Winglets
>
> Gary,
> Do you mean winglets or wingtips?
> ned
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gary Vogt
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 11:33 PM
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA5 - Winglets
>
> Funny you should ask. I have teh drawings and the beginning of a mock up. Wheel
pants are next.
>
> From: Andrew Kuzyk <andrew@entro.com>
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 7:53 PM
> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AA5 - Winglets
>
> Has a winglet mod been made available for the AA5?
>
> Andrew
>
> NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted
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message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard
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or otherwise and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer,
disk drive, or other storage medium.
>
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