---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/30/11: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:13 AM - Re: AA5 - Winglets (923te) 2. 06:29 AM - Re: AA5 - Winglets (Andrew Kuzyk) 3. 06:40 AM - Re: AA5 - Winglets (923te) 4. 07:21 AM - AA5 - Winglets (ArjayS@AOL.COM) 5. 07:27 AM - Tiger info (Airport Bum) 6. 10:56 AM - Re: AA5 - Winglets (Andrew Kuzyk) 7. 11:11 AM - Re: AA5 - Winglets (ArjayS@AOL.COM) 8. 11:18 AM - Re: AA5 - Winglets (Andrew Kuzyk) 9. 12:01 PM - Re: AA5 - Winglets (Gary Vogt) 10. 02:04 PM - Re: AA5 - Winglets (Bruce Smith) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:13:15 AM PST US From: "923te" <923te@att.net> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA5 - Winglets Gary, Do you mean winglets or wingtips? ned ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Vogt To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 11:33 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA5 - Winglets Funny you should ask. I have teh drawings and the beginning of a mock up. Wheel pants are next. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: Andrew Kuzyk To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 7:53 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AA5 - Winglets Has a winglet mod been made available for the AA5? Andrew NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you received this communication in error or without authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium. h --> http://www.matronics.com/con=============== ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:13 AM PST US From: Andrew Kuzyk Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA5 - Winglets Winglets. They are supposed to reduce/eliminate wingtip vortices thereby increasing speed, and fuel efficiency maybe wing loading. I have some loose drawings but I wouldn't know how to calculate what the effect would be. Would winglets add much to the AA5? Andrew Andrew Kuzyk BID, ACIDO, RGD // Partner Entro Communications 122 Parliament St. Toronto, Canada M5A 2Y8 T: 416-368-6988 x 222 M: 416-706-4490 F: 416-368-5616 www.entro.com On Aug 30, 2011, at 9:13 AM, 923te wrote: > Gary, > Do you mean winglets or wingtips? > ned > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gary Vogt > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 11:33 PM > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA5 - Winglets > > Funny you should ask. I have teh drawings and the beginning of a mock up. Wheel pants are next. > > From: Andrew Kuzyk > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 7:53 PM > Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AA5 - Winglets > > Has a winglet mod been made available for the AA5? > > Andrew > > NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you received this communication in error or without authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium. > > h --> http://www.matronics.com/con============= == > > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > > > NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or o mitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you receive d this communication in error or without authorization please notify us i mmediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entir e communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:30 AM PST US From: "923te" <923te@att.net> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA5 - Winglets On my lancair winglets add lift but also drag at lower altitudes but at higher altitudes they add controllability and the additional drag over the original wingtip is not so much up high. Without the winglets its pretty hard to fly by hand over about 22000 ft. Don't know that winglets would be a benefit to a Tiger that flies down low but I think there is room for drag reduction and weight reduction over the factory wingtips. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:57 AM PST US From: ArjayS@AOL.COM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AA5 - Winglets You are correct on all counts. There IS a little benefit on an AA5 wing but not a lot. However everthing counts and a knot here and there adds up. However, the biggest issue is certification and that is a big issue (read: expensive). Among other issues you are talking about a compete spin program . I'm getting dizzy just thinking about it. Rj Siegel CEO/LoPresti Aviation Engineering > On my lancair winglets add lift but also drag at lower altitudes but at > higher altitudes they add controllability and the additional drag over th e > original wingtip is not so much up high. Without the winglets its pretty > hard to fly by hand over about 22000 ft. > - > Don't know that winglets would be a benefit to a Tiger that flies down > low-but I think there is room for drag reduction and weight reduction o ver > the factory wingtips. > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:30 AM PST US From: Airport Bum Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Tiger info Ned, Since you have lots of time in the tiger and pay attention to the details, could you share with me what your settings, temps, speeds etc are during va rious fazes of flight?- What do you see in climb, cruise, and decent?- I'm not liking what I'm seeing and Fletcher did not find anything obvious. -- I'll be pulling the cowling for a closer look, but so far nothing st ands out as being below standard. Kevin ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:56:41 AM PST US From: Andrew Kuzyk Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA5 - Winglets Hi RJ, I spoke with David Fletcher a while back, he mentioned someone had produced winglets but did not think that any where sold. So there may be winglets with all the appropriate paper work in someone's basement collecting dust. It may not have sold due minimal performance increase at maximum cost but then again maybe there is enough of a performance justification. Andrew Andrew Kuzyk BID, ACIDO, RGD // Partner Entro Communications 122 Parliament St. Toronto, Canada M5A 2Y8 T: 416-368-6988 x 222 M: 416-706-4490 F: 416-368-5616 www.entro.com On Aug 30, 2011, at 10:19 AM, ArjayS@AOL.COM wrote: > You are correct on all counts. There IS a little benefit on an AA5 wing but not a lot. However everthing counts and a knot here and there adds up. However, the biggest issue is certification and that is a big issue (read: expensive). Among other issues you are talking about a compete spin program. I'm getting dizzy just thinking about it. > Rj Siegel CEO/LoPresti Aviation Engineering > >> On my lancair winglets add lift but also drag at lower altitudes but at higher altitudes they add controllability and the additional drag over the original wingtip is not so much up high. Without the winglets its pretty hard to fly by hand over about 22000 ft. >> >> Don't know that winglets would be a benefit to a Tiger that flies down low but I think there is room for drag reduction and weight reduction over the factory wingtips. >> > > > > > NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or o mitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you receive d this communication in error or without authorization please notify us i mmediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entir e communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:11:09 AM PST US From: ArjayS@AOL.COM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA5 - Winglets Hi Andrew Yes, there are winglets with NONE of the appropriate paperwork, which is why it's in Steve Millers basement. When he found out how much it would cos t to certify (after three years of fighting a losing battle) he tossed it in the corner. > Hi RJ, - > > I spoke with David Fletcher a while back, he mentioned someone had > produced winglets but did not think that any where sold. -So there may be winglets > with all the appropriate paper work in someone's basement collecting dust . > It may not have sold due minimal performance increase at maximum cost but > then again maybe there is enough of a performance justification. > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:18:58 AM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA5 - Winglets From: Andrew Kuzyk Hi RJ, I guess there is no way that one can get a field certification (don't know what the proper term is) without having to go through all the hoops before seeing its viability. Where they ever installed and tested on an AA5? I'm interested if there was any benefit to the overall performance. Andrew Andrew Kuzyk BID, ACIDO, RGD // Partner Entro Communications 122 Parliament St. Toronto, Canada M5A 2Y8 T: 416-368-6988 x 222 M: 416-706-4490 F: 416-368-5616 www.entro.com On Aug 30, 2011, at 2:08 PM, ArjayS@aol.com wrote: > Hi Andrew > Yes, there are winglets with NONE of the appropriate paperwork, which is why it's in Steve Millers basement. When he found out how much it would cost to certify (after three years of fighting a losing battle) he tossed it in the corner. > >> Hi RJ, >> >> I spoke with David Fletcher a while back, he mentioned someone had produced winglets but did not think that any where sold. So there may be winglets with all the appropriate paper work in someone's basement collecting dust. It may not have sold due minimal performance increase at maximum cost but then again maybe there is enough of a performance justification. >> > > NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or o mitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you receive d this communication in error or without authorization please notify us i mmediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entir e communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:01:47 PM PST US From: Gary Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA5 - Winglets A little of both. -It's a modified wingtip. -Calculations show a 1-3% i ncrease in speed at 10,000 feet. -Worth it? -No. -But they look bitch in'=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: 923te <923te@att.net> =0ATo: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 6:13 AM=0ASubject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA5 - Winglets=0A=0A=0A =0AGary,=0ADo you mean winglets or wingtips?=0Aned=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A>Fro m: Gary Vogt =0A>To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Monday, Augu st 29, 2011 11:33 PM=0A>Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA5 - Winglets=0A> =0A>=0A>Funny you should ask. -I have teh drawings and the beginning of a mock up. -Wheel pants are next.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>________________________ ________=0A> From: Andrew Kuzyk =0A>To: teamgrumman-list@ matronics.com=0A>Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 7:53 PM=0A>Subject: TeamGru mman-List: AA5 - Winglets=0A>=0A>=0A>Has a winglet mod been made available for the AA5? =0A>=0A>=0A>Andrew=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIAL ITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you a re not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to a n intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, diss emination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is s trictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you received this communication in error or wit hout authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwi se and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium. =0A>h --> http://www.matronics.com/con= =============== =0A>=0A>=0A>href="http://ww w.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga tor?TeamGrumman-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matr onics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matro ===================== ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:50 PM PST US From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA5 - Winglets Gary, Something like these? http://www.minix.fr/english/abstract.php Bruce On Aug 30, 2011, at 2:58 PM, Gary Vogt wrote: > A little of both. It's a modified wingtip. Calculations show a 1-3% increase in speed at 10,000 feet. Worth it? No. But they look bitchin' > > From: 923te <923te@att.net> > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 6:13 AM > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA5 - Winglets > > Gary, > Do you mean winglets or wingtips? > ned > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gary Vogt > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 11:33 PM > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AA5 - Winglets > > Funny you should ask. I have teh drawings and the beginning of a mock up. Wheel pants are next. > > From: Andrew Kuzyk > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 7:53 PM > Subject: TeamGrumman-List: AA5 - Winglets > > Has a winglet mod been made available for the AA5? > > Andrew > > NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. 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