---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 09/27/11: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:44 AM - Re: Behavioural Characterstics (Andrew Kuzyk) 2. 05:32 PM - % HP (Linn Walters) 3. 06:05 PM - Re: Behavioural Characterstics (FLYaDIVE) 4. 06:14 PM - Re: % HP (923te) 5. 08:36 PM - Re: % HP (Linn Walters) 6. 11:43 PM - Re: % HP (James Courtney) 7. 11:56 PM - Re: % HP (Linn Walters) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:44:06 AM PST US From: Andrew Kuzyk Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Behavioural Characterstics I don't know if it has anything to do with increased horsepower. I was thinking that may be I wasn't applying sufficient pressure on the rudder, but then I applied some pressure and the same thing occurred. Maybe the trimtab? Andrew Kuzyk BID, ACIDO, RGD // Partner Entro Communications 122 Parliament St. Toronto, Canada M5A 2Y8 T: 416-368-6988 x 222 M: 416-706-4490 F: 416-368-5616 www.entro.com On Sep 27, 2011, at 1:43 AM, Gary Vogt wrote: > That's a hard one to comment on. If I had flown it I'd have a better idea. Any other unusual characteristics? > > From: Andrew Kuzyk > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 12:14 PM > Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Behavioural Characterstics > > I flew my Traveler, yesterday in calm clear skies and noticed the plane had a gentle fishtailing motion when in level cruise, if I accelerated it would go away. Anyone have any insights? > Andrew > NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you received this communication in error or without authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium. > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?T="_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.co > > > > NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or o mitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you receive d this communication in error or without authorization please notify us i mmediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entir e communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:43 PM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: TeamGrumman-List: % HP Any ideas on a formula for % horsepower that works for different size engines? So far Google has let me down. Linn ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:18 PM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Behavioural Characterstics From: FLYaDIVE Was the BALL centered? On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 12:39 PM, Andrew Kuzyk wrote: > I don't know if it has anything to do with increased horsepower. I was > thinking that may be I wasn't applying sufficient pressure on the rudder, > but then I applied some pressure and the same thing occurred. Maybe the > trimtab? > > > > **Andrew Kuzyk BID, ACIDO, RGD // Partner** > > * Entro Communications* > 122 Parliament St. > Toronto, Canada M5A 2Y8 > > T: *416-368-6988 x 222* > M: 416-706-4490 > F: 416-368-5616 > > www.entro.com > > **** > > ** ** > > On Sep 27, 2011, at 1:43 AM, Gary Vogt wrote: > > That's a hard one to comment on. If I had flown it I'd have a better ide a. > Any other unusual characteristics? > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Andrew Kuzyk > *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, September 26, 2011 12:14 PM > *Subject:* TeamGrumman-List: Behavioural Characterstics > > I flew my Traveler, yesterday in calm clear skies and noticed the plane h ad > a gentle fishtailing motion when in level cruise, if I accelerated it wou ld > go away. Anyone have any insights? > Andrew > > NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and i s confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for del ivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conve rsion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you received this commu nication in error or without authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium. > > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?T="_blank" href="http://forums.ma tronics.com">http://forums.matronics.co > > * > > * > * > * > * > * > > > > face="courier new,courier"> http ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution > > * > ** > > > NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and i s confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for del ivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conve rsion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you received this commu nication in error or without authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium. > > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:46 PM PST US From: "923te" <923te@att.net> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: % HP Here ya go hp = torque * RPM / 5252 otherwise check your POH cause it's different in each plane or see attachments for O-360 ----- Original Message ----- From: Linn Walters To: grumman2 Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 7:29 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: % HP Any ideas on a formula for % horsepower that works for different size engines? So far Google has let me down. Linn ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:42 PM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: % HP Thanks for the replies. I should have been a little more specific. I'm looking for a formula that computes % HP from parameters that are measurable .... fuel flow, OAT, RPM, MP etc. so I can display the value on my EFIS. Since the EFIS measures many parameters a formula could compute % HP realtime. Hard to fly and look at the graphs ...... :-P There is a formula from Van's (below from another email) but it doesn't seem to be accurate for different size engines (not sure which engine really fits), and I don't have the math skills to tweak it. I was hoping someone might have the magic bullet. Linn Van's formula: h=(H-((R-r)*(5.58-0.125*(M-m))/100 + 7.35*(M-m)) + 2.0*pa/1000)*sqrt((519-3.58*pa/1000)/(460+ta)) h% = h/H*100 where Constants: H= maximum sea level horsepower at maximum manifold pressure (from manufacturer's data) R= maximum sea level RPM at maximum manifold pressure (from manufacturer's data) M= maximum sea level manifold pressure at rated RPM (from manufacturer's data) For a Lycoming/Superior 320 (my case): H= 160 R= 2700 M= 28.6 Variables (inputs) r= actual RPM m= actual manifold pressure pa= actual pressure altitude (altimeter set to 29.92 inHg) ta = actual air inlet temperature at pressure altitude (OAT has practically the same value) Outputs h = calculated horsepower h%= calculated percent horsepower On 9/27/2011 9:16 PM, 923te wrote: > Here ya go > hp = torque * RPM / 5252 > otherwise check your POH cause it's different in each plane or > see attachments for O-360 > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Linn Walters > *To:* grumman2 > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 27, 2011 7:29 PM > *Subject:* TeamGrumman-List: % HP > > > > > Any ideas on a formula for % horsepower that works for different size > engines? So far Google has let me p; Features Chat, > http://www.mnbsp; via the Web > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > _p; generous bsp; > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c================ > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:43:21 PM PST US From: "James Courtney" Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: % HP Lean of peak %HP is determined by fuel flow. ROP all the other atmospheric parameters apply. A good rule of thumb for the big Continentals (IO-520/550) operated LOP is 14.9 HP per gallon per hour of fuel flow. Probably not helpful to a carbureted Lycoming. Drop a line to the GAMI guys and see if they have a suggestion. There's got to be some reasonable equation for approximating out there. Your equation doesn't seem terrible as when I plug it into Mathematica it returns some not unreasonable looking values. Maybe a bit high. Jamey From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 8:33 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: % HP Thanks for the replies. I should have been a little more specific. I'm looking for a formula that computes % HP from parameters that are measurable .... fuel flow, OAT, RPM, MP etc. so I can display the value on my EFIS. Since the EFIS measures many parameters a formula could compute % HP realtime. Hard to fly and look at the graphs ...... :-P There is a formula from Van's (below from another email) but it doesn't seem to be accurate for different size engines (not sure which engine really fits), and I don't have the math skills to tweak it. I was hoping someone might have the magic bullet. Linn Van's formula: h=(H-((R-r)*(5.58-0.125*(M-m))/100 + 7.35*(M-m)) + 2.0*pa/1000)*sqrt((519-3.58*pa/1000)/(460+ta)) h% = h/H*100 where Constants: H= maximum sea level horsepower at maximum manifold pressure (from manufacturer's data) R= maximum sea level RPM at maximum manifold pressure (from manufacturer's data) M= maximum sea level manifold pressure at rated RPM (from manufacturer's data) For a Lycoming/Superior 320 (my case): H= 160 R= 2700 M= 28.6 Variables (inputs) r= actual RPM m= actual manifold pressure pa= actual pressure altitude (altimeter set to 29.92 inHg) ta = actual air inlet temperature at pressure altitude (OAT has practically the same value) Outputs h = calculated horsepower h%= calculated percent horsepower On 9/27/2011 9:16 PM, 923te wrote: Here ya go hp = torque * RPM / 5252 otherwise check your POH cause it's different in each plane or see attachments for O-360 ----- Original Message ----- From: Linn Walters Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 7:29 PM Subject: TeamGrumman-List: % HP Any ideas on a formula for % horsepower that works for different size engines? So far Google has let me p; Features Chat, http://www.mnbsp; via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _p; generous bsp; href "http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c========= ====== _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:56:11 PM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: % HP Thanks Jamey. Math is one of my weak areas. I wish I knew what the constants are and where they came from. Your suggestion about GAMI is a good one. Linn On 9/28/2011 2:40 AM, James Courtney wrote: > > Lean of peak %HP is determined by fuel flow. ROP all the other > atmospheric parameters apply. A good rule of thumb for the big > Continentals (IO-520/550) operated LOP is 14.9 HP per gallon per hour > of fuel flow. Probably not helpful to a carbureted Lycoming. Drop a > line to the GAMI guys and see if they have a suggestion. There's got > to be some reasonable equation for approximating out there. Your > equation doesn't seem terrible as when I plug it into Mathematica it > returns some not unreasonable looking values. Maybe a bit high. > > Jamey > > *From:*owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *Linn Walters > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 27, 2011 8:33 PM > *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: % HP > > Thanks for the replies. > > I should have been a little more specific. I'm looking for a formula > that computes % HP from parameters that are measurable .... fuel > flow, OAT, RPM, MP etc. so I can display the value on my EFIS. Since > the EFIS measures many parameters a formula could compute % HP > realtime. Hard to fly and look at the graphs ...... :-P There is a > formula from Van's (below from another email) but it doesn't seem to > be accurate for different size engines (not sure which engine really > fits), and I don't have the math skills to tweak it. I was hoping > someone might have the magic bullet. > Linn > > Van's formula: > h=(H-((R-r)*(5.58-0.125*(M-m))/100 + 7.35*(M-m)) + > 2.0*pa/1000)*sqrt((519-3.58*pa/1000)/(460+ta)) > > h% = h/H*100 > > where > > Constants: > > H= maximum sea level horsepower at maximum manifold pressure (from > manufacturer's data) > R= maximum sea level RPM at maximum manifold pressure (from > manufacturer's data) > M= maximum sea level manifold pressure at rated RPM (from > manufacturer's data) > > For a Lycoming/Superior 320 (my case): > > H= 160 > R= 2700 > M= 28.6 > > Variables (inputs) > > r= actual RPM > m= actual manifold pressure > pa= actual pressure altitude (altimeter set to 29.92 inHg) > ta = actual air inlet temperature at pressure altitude (OAT has > practically the same value) > > Outputs > > h = calculated horsepower > h%= calculated percent horsepower > > > On 9/27/2011 9:16 PM, 923te wrote: > > Here ya go > > hp = torque * RPM / 5252 > > otherwise check your POH cause it's different in each plane or > > see attachments for O-360 > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:*Linn Walters > > *To:*grumman2 > > *Sent:*Tuesday, September 27, 2011 7:29 PM > > *Subject:*TeamGrumman-List: % HP > > > > > Any ideas on a formula for % horsepower that works for different size > engines? So far Google has let me p; Features Chat, > http://www.mnbsp; via the Web > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > _p; generous bsp; > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" > >http://www.matronics.com/c================ > > * *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List > *_======================http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web generous nbsp; --> http://www.matronics.com/c= * > * * > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 10.0.1410 / 09/27/11 > > * > > > * ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message teamgrumman-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.