---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 11/26/11: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:17 AM - Re: Re: Fw: Flying with a level (FLYaDIVE) 2. 10:42 AM - Re: Re: Fw: Flying with a level (Gary L Vogt) 3. 11:31 AM - What a drag . . . (Gary L Vogt) 4. 02:09 PM - Re: Fw: Flying with a level (Doug Doty) 5. 02:25 PM - Re: Fw: Flying with a level (Doug Doty) 6. 05:07 PM - Re: Re: Fw: Flying with a level (Bob Hodo) 7. 05:26 PM - Re: What a drag . . . (Bob Hodo) 8. 07:27 PM - Re: Fw: Flying with a level (Doug Doty) 9. 08:08 PM - Re: Re: Fw: Flying with a level (Bob Hodo) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:08 AM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Fwd: Flying with a level From: FLYaDIVE Doug: Say hello and thank you to your Son from me. Barry USAF On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 11:40 PM, Doug Doty <39marinette@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > I am always looking for some place to go so maybe I'll swing over that way > and compare notes some day, I am going to Florida to get warm soon and > Louisiana to visit a son healing from an Afghanistan wound a while back. I > look at it. > > Doug... > > -------- > 1977 AA5B N28454, Fuel Totalizer, Lopresti Nose, Red Rudder Cap, 4 cyl. > egt, stock otherwise. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359147#359147 > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:42:11 AM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Fwd: Flying with a level From: Gary L Vogt So, Doug, tell us about your dragster. I've been looking for a C6 chassis to go under a C3. Lots of cutting and fabricating. That project will have wait until the IO360 is finished. Gary Sent from my iPad On Nov 24, 2011, at 12:25 PM, "Doug Doty" <39marinette@gmail.com> wrote: > > You are right about Lurkers. I drag raced for 25 years and crave speed and efficiency, so don't think I am not enjoying the exchange of information, I am dying to pick up a little and smoke a certain mooney !!!!! > > -------- > 1977 AA5B N28454, Fuel Totalizer, Lopresti Nose, Red Rudder Cap, 4 cyl. egt, stock otherwise. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359129#359129 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:31:12 AM PST US Subject: TeamGrumman-List: What a drag . . . From: Gary L Vogt BH wrote, "When my cheetah is strait and level at 140 knots, the canopy rails are more than 1 degree ( 1.27 is my first measurement ) nose down. That means that rear section is 8.27 degrees nose down." Now ya got me thinking again. When 626 (the Project X plane) gets out of annual, I'm going to make some more detailed measurements on the wing incident. If zero lift occurs somewhere between 2 and 5 degrees down AOA, it MIGHT be possible to determine the lift on the fuselage. Also, if max L/D occurs at somewhere between 2 and 5 degrees up AOA, now all we need is a device on the plane that finds relative AOA. As a system, the vertical and horizontal lift and drag need to be considered. The lift and drag of the system seems dependent on loading, flap position, trim drag, cooling drag, aircraft weight, and Reynolds number (i.e., aircraft speed). BH, can you make a mathematical curve fit to the rib you have? It might be possible to extrapolate data from existing NACA airfoil data. IF we know the top is a 64-415, then that shape we know. BTW. The P-51 uses an airfoil similar to a 66-415. Same basic shape as a 64-415 but with the max thickness at 60% cord instead of 40% cord. Gary Sent from my iPad ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:09:38 PM PST US Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Fwd: Flying with a level From: "Doug Doty" <39marinette@gmail.com> Started with big block Camaro's in the middle 80's then into the 5.0 craze in the middle 90's and back to big Chevys in Camaro's in the 05' and out and done in 08' Here is a couple of pic's of the last 8.5 outlaw car. I built for the 08 season. It made 1098 hp. with 615 ci. and conventional heads from a "Texas pro stock class" head and intake custom shop on the right coast. Lucky to have enough money left the have a couple planes and a hanger after the racing, it was fun but a major drain on finances. -------- 1977 AA5B N28454, Fuel Totalizer, Lopresti Nose, Red Rudder Cap, 4 cyl. egt, stock otherwise. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359351#359351 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:25:10 PM PST US Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Fwd: Flying with a level From: "Doug Doty" <39marinette@gmail.com> Back to airplanes, On my tiger during preflight today I was looking a lot harder at a few thing than normal as a result of this and the pther threads and I found that if I aligned the left elevator tip on the front balance portion with the HS that my right side rode high maybe as much as 1/2" in the same far forward spot adjacent to the HS on the right side. Is this normal or do I need to get after figuring this out asap. ???????????????? It flys flat and level with no trim in the alierons buy has a good bit of trim tab bent to the right on the rudder... Help.... -------- 1977 AA5B N28454, Fuel Totalizer, Lopresti Nose, Red Rudder Cap, 4 cyl. egt, stock otherwise. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359353#359353 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:50 PM PST US From: Bob Hodo Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Fwd: Flying with a level Doug asked: I found that if I aligned the left elevator tip on the front balance =0Apo rtion with the HS that my right side rode high maybe as much as 1/2" =0Ain the same far forward spot adjacent to the HS on the right side. Is =0Athis normal or do I need to get after figuring this out asap. ? You have a typical split elevator.- 1/2 inch is pretty bad.- From a str uctural standpoint it is the possibility of one side flopping around that i s most concerning.- I doubt that if you look aft while flying you will se e it doing that, however. If you go to aya.org and click on "Maintenance Hanger" then AA5 Maintenance manual then chapter 27 and when the pdf downloads go about 60% of the way down to Fig 404 in Chapter 27-3-1 on g=page 408 you will see Item 24. BEL L CRANK and item 30. TORQUE TUBE. Basically there is a tube in a tube, and a hole drilled through both walls of both tubes and a bolt which is actually a pin that keeps the two aligned .- They wear over 30 years or so.- And it is the slop more than the mis alignment that is problematic.- The first cure is an oversize bolt from F letchair or possibly Ken Blackman that will go inside the hole after it is redrilled to the proper next step up in size. The problem is that you want perfect alignment before redrilling, and it is just best to let one of the guru's who have the reamer and the experience to just get it perfect. Now Doug, I do a lot of my own maintenance on a lot of things including my cheetah.- But I gladly chose to let Bob Steward do mine.- (He supervise s and trains and approves the things I do anyway, and for a while was urgin g me to get my A&P.) I don't think it is dangerous to fly as it is, but it is not something that can be ignored either.- You WILL get it fixed, it might as well be right away and might as well be done by an expert. shortcut to the .pdf at AYA.org http://www.aya.org/s/358/images/editor_documents/content/The%20maintenance% 20Manual%20is%20an%20essential%20%28and%20legally%20required/27.pdf That's my 2 cents... Bob Hodo GADsden, AL ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:15 PM PST US From: Bob Hodo Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: What a drag . . . Gary >>>- Now ya got me thinking again. BH>>> I can't imagine you stop thinking very often... Gary>>> BH, can you make a mathematical curve fit to the rib you have? BH>>>- I might have had that skill set 35 years ago, not sure, but I cert ainly don't have it now.- Gary, when I stare at that foil from the side, with my chair rail on the wa ll behind it like the oncoming airstream, I can see it not being too bad wi th the flat aft half parallel to the stream, and the front section more tha n 4 degrees up from that, and the big drooping front edge in its slickest p rofile.- But that must happen down around 100 to 105 knots. At 140 knots on the cheetah the flat aft half is more than 3 degrees nose d own, and the front flat half is only about 1 degree nose up.- To my eye i t looks like the wing cannot possibly be lifting any longer, but apparently that big camber on top is still cranking pretty good.- By this time howe ver, we have a pretty blunt leading edge that kills a lot of bugs (and I th ink two hummingbirds on the way to Pennsylvania!) I can trace you a copy of the rib on paper and send it to you to hang on yo ur wall next to your TV if you like.- ( Along with some pieces to stick o n the front to change the shape as I would like!) Bob Hodo GADsden, AL ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:45 PM PST US Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Fwd: Flying with a level From: "Doug Doty" <39marinette@gmail.com> Flew today and the weather is going to be lousey for a few days starting at this very moment as I hear the rain on the skylites, so I will pull the tail cone tomorrow morning and get into it, it needs the jack screw on the trim cleaned up anyway, not feeling as smooth as it should. My IA is just across the taxiway and always happy to help. I can switch places with the 150 and it needs to be in front anyway as it is going away for a few days for some maint. too. I'll get it taken care of before I fly it again. I just like fixing every thing I can find asap, especially on a plane like this that is still new to me and not much history with it yet. Might even get a few pic's along the way. -------- 1977 AA5B N28454, Fuel Totalizer, Lopresti Nose, Red Rudder Cap, 4 cyl. egt, stock otherwise. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359375#359375 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:24 PM PST US From: Bob Hodo Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Fwd: Flying with a level Getting to it is no problem.- It is very likely that only one side is wal lowed out.- But you won't necessarily need to go up from whatever the cur rent standard size is to the next standard size.- Garner Rice (Fletchair, 1-800-FAWINGS) should have in stock a special size bolt that they order ju st for this. But you need a special reamer to do it right, not just a drill. Anyway, your goal of course is for them both to sit with the leading edge o f the el tips matching the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer at the same time with near zero play in either elevator. Also, since you are a tiger, you should be able to turn around in cruise fl ight and see them flying like that.- If your plane is fast, you will see the el tips begin to rise above the HS leading edge beginning around 140 kn ots or so. (Made worse by using the cheetah trick of carrying some extra wa ter as rear ballast.) Good luck, and keep us posted on what you find. 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