Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:39 AM - Re: Spark Plugs - Fine Wire Safety Warning (flyv35b)
2. 08:58 AM - Re: Spark Plugs - Fine Wire Safety Warning (923te)
3. 08:59 AM - Re: Spark Plugs - Fine Wire Safety Warning (923te)
4. 10:14 AM - Re: Spark Plugs - Fine Wire Safety Warning (Ben Lowther)
5. 10:15 AM - Re: Spark Plugs - Fine Wire Safety Warning (flyv35b)
6. 11:16 AM - Re: Spark Plugs - Fine Wire Safety Warning (923te)
7. 11:16 AM - Re: Spark Plugs - Fine Wire Safety Warning (923te)
8. 12:11 PM - Re: Spark Plugs - Fine Wire Safety Warning (Ben Lowther)
9. 12:55 PM - Re: Spark Plugs - Fine Wire Safety Warning (flyv35b)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Spark Plugs - Fine Wire Safety Warning |
On 12/24/2011 9:42 AM, Gary Vogt wrote:
> what engine is in the SR-22?
>
> I think the change to RHB29E is a guess. Plug runs cooler. I don't think
> they know the failure mode.
>
> If the SR-22 has angle valves, well, it's an entirely different animal.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* 923te <923te@att.net>
> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 24, 2011 8:48 AM
> *Subject:* TeamGrumman-List: Spark Plugs - Fine Wire Safety Warning
>
> I've been looking for reasons why my plane isn't as fast as it used to
> be. Maybe I found something.
> I found a MSB concerning fine wire plug failures from Tornado Alley turbo:
> http://www.taturbo.com/TATSR22-SB11-05%20fine%20wire%20spark%20plugs%20initial%20release%20sept%2023%202011.pdf
> Beechtalk has a thread on this issue where they mention that NA or
> Normally aspirated engines have the same failure with fine wire plugs.
> http://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=59668&hilit=fine+wire
The NA engine in the SR22 is an IO-550N, rated at 310 hp (9.0:1 CR).
This was turbo-normalized by TAT (via STC) and then later on the factory
installed a TSIO-550K, rated at 315 hp in the SR22T.
I think the failure mode is pretty well defined. The problems are
largely with the turbo-normalized engines but have also occurred on the
NA engines, both have 9.0:1 CR and a different combustion chamber than
any parallel valve Lycoming engine.
TAT issued a SB in late September which applies to the turbo-normalized
STC engine with the fine wire RHB32S spark plugs. The problems pointed
to cracked or damaged insulators which led to pre-ignition and some
engine failures. NA IO-55N engines typically had RHB32E massive
electrode plugs installed and the turbo-normalized engine typically had
the fine wire RHB32S plugs. No cracked insulators were found with the
massive electrode plugs.
TAT is recommending in SB 11-05 that the fine wire plugs be replaced in
the turbo-normalized STC'd engine with RHB29E plugs or RHB32E plugs if
the former cannot be found. The SB has much more info but here are some
excerpts.
TAT SB 11-05
"A number of field reports, at least two incidents (on airport forced
landings), and one (non-injury) accident
have prompted this service bulletin. The field reports are supported by
photographic and physical parts
evidence, and by direct experience. Collectively, this data documents an
unusually frequent occurrence of
cracked ceramic insulators found in Champion RHB32S fine wire spark
plugs installed in a variety of aircraft.
Champion RHB32S fine wire plugs were installed as original equipment in
most, but not all, turbonormalized
SR 22 aircraft (TN SR22). The same failure mode for the cracking of
RHB32S fine wire spark plugs has also
been observed in normally aspirated SR22 aircraft, a Columbia 400, a
normally aspirated Bonanza, and a
Cessna T310R.
Cracked and damaged ceramic insulators on spark plugs are known to be a
common cause of pre-ignition type
combustion events in aircraft piston engines. Pre-ignition combustion
events are the most destructive
combustion process known to affect piston engines. So far as is known,
similar issues with RHB32E (massive
style) are not occurring.
TAT has neither seen nor heard of any report of any cracked RHB32E
massive spark plug in that group of aircraft equipped with RHB32E
massive spark plugs."
I don't believe that Grumman owners have anything to worry about in our
Lycoming engines. I have been running them in my O-320 for quite some
time now as they came with the engine and have had no problems but I
don't think I would buy them due to the extremely high cost and I don't
see the added benefit. I'd rather replace the massive electrode plugs
twice as often or so. If you feel you have a fouling issue you can use
the REM37BY plugs which are less susceptible.
Cliff
Cliff
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Spark Plugs - Fine Wire Safety Warning |
Cliff
You have any experience with spark plug resistance? All my Champion fine wires
were over 5000 ohms. Tempest says over 5000 and expect problems like I have been
experiencing
Engine has been hard to start at least it hasn't started quickly like it used to
and when loading up it misses. I hope to be flying soon to check this out. I've
replaced the fine wires with some massives I had that have good resistance
checks
Ned
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 27, 2011, at 8:37 AM, flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com> wrote:
>
> On 12/24/2011 9:42 AM, Gary Vogt wrote:
>> what engine is in the SR-22?
>>
>> I think the change to RHB29E is a guess. Plug runs cooler. I don't think
>> they know the failure mode.
>>
>> If the SR-22 has angle valves, well, it's an entirely different animal.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* 923te <923te@att.net>
>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 24, 2011 8:48 AM
>> *Subject:* TeamGrumman-List: Spark Plugs - Fine Wire Safety Warning
>>
>> I've been looking for reasons why my plane isn't as fast as it used to
>> be. Maybe I found something.
>> I found a MSB concerning fine wire plug failures from Tornado Alley turbo:
>> http://www.taturbo.com/TATSR22-SB11-05%20fine%20wire%20spark%20plugs%20initial%20release%20sept%2023%202011.pdf
>> Beechtalk has a thread on this issue where they mention that NA or
>> Normally aspirated engines have the same failure with fine wire plugs.
>> http://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=59668&hilit=fine+wire
>
> The NA engine in the SR22 is an IO-550N, rated at 310 hp (9.0:1 CR). This was
turbo-normalized by TAT (via STC) and then later on the factory installed a TSIO-550K,
rated at 315 hp in the SR22T.
>
> I think the failure mode is pretty well defined. The problems are largely with
the turbo-normalized engines but have also occurred on the NA engines, both
have 9.0:1 CR and a different combustion chamber than any parallel valve Lycoming
engine.
>
> TAT issued a SB in late September which applies to the turbo-normalized STC engine
with the fine wire RHB32S spark plugs. The problems pointed to cracked
or damaged insulators which led to pre-ignition and some engine failures. NA
IO-55N engines typically had RHB32E massive electrode plugs installed and the
turbo-normalized engine typically had the fine wire RHB32S plugs. No cracked
insulators were found with the massive electrode plugs.
>
> TAT is recommending in SB 11-05 that the fine wire plugs be replaced in the turbo-normalized
STC'd engine with RHB29E plugs or RHB32E plugs if the former cannot
be found. The SB has much more info but here are some excerpts.
>
> TAT SB 11-05
> "A number of field reports, at least two incidents (on airport forced landings),
and one (non-injury) accident
> have prompted this service bulletin. The field reports are supported by photographic
and physical parts
> evidence, and by direct experience. Collectively, this data documents an unusually
frequent occurrence of
> cracked ceramic insulators found in Champion RHB32S fine wire spark plugs installed
in a variety of aircraft.
>
> Champion RHB32S fine wire plugs were installed as original equipment in most,
but not all, turbonormalized
> SR 22 aircraft (TN SR22). The same failure mode for the cracking of RHB32S fine
wire spark plugs has also
> been observed in normally aspirated SR22 aircraft, a Columbia 400, a normally
aspirated Bonanza, and a
> Cessna T310R.
>
> Cracked and damaged ceramic insulators on spark plugs are known to be a common
cause of pre-ignition type
> combustion events in aircraft piston engines. Pre-ignition combustion events
are the most destructive
> combustion process known to affect piston engines. So far as is known, similar
issues with RHB32E (massive
> style) are not occurring.
>
> TAT has neither seen nor heard of any report of any cracked RHB32E
> massive spark plug in that group of aircraft equipped with RHB32E massive spark
plugs."
>
> I don't believe that Grumman owners have anything to worry about in our Lycoming
engines. I have been running them in my O-320 for quite some time now as
they came with the engine and have had no problems but I don't think I would buy
them due to the extremely high cost and I don't see the added benefit. I'd
rather replace the massive electrode plugs twice as often or so. If you feel
you have a fouling issue you can use the REM37BY plugs which are less susceptible.
>
> Cliff
>
> Cliff
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Spark Plugs - Fine Wire Safety Warning |
> Here are 3 references to spark plug resistance limits
> One says 5,000
> one says 10,000
> one says 20,000
>
>
>
> =46rom John Schwaner
> http://www.sacskyranch.com/eng174.htm
> Worn or fouled spark plugs (spark plugs with over 10,000 ohm resistance, 1
,000 ohm normal) can dramatically raise the voltage required to fire the spa
rk plug
>
> Hmm, found this from our AYA Tech guy
> http://www.aircraftowner.com/magazine/tag/Aircraft%20Maintenance%20Restora
tion
> Jeff Simon:
> Champion and Unison will not release official values for a bad plug resist
ance, but I was told unofficially that any plug showing 20K Ohms or more sho
uld really be scrapped
>
>
> Tempest says above 5,000 Ohms is bad
> http://www.electroair.net/pdf/SparkPlugCard.pdf
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Spark Plugs - Fine Wire Safety Warning |
See Champion Service Letter=0A=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A
From: 923te <923te@att.net>=0ATo: Cliff <flyv35b@minetfiber.com> =0ASent:
Tuesday, December 27, 2011 5:55 PM=0ASubject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Spark P
lugs - Fine Wire Safety Warning=0A =0A--> TeamGrumman-List message posted b
y: 923te <923te@att.net>=0A=0ACliff=0AYou have any experience with spark pl
ug resistance? All my Champion fine wires were over 5000 ohms. Tempest says
over 5000 and expect problems like I have been experiencing=0A=0AEngine ha
s been hard to start at least it hasn't started quickly like it used to and
when loading up it misses. I hope to be flying soon to check this out. I'v
e replaced the fine wires with some massives I had that have good resistanc
e checks=0A=0A=0ANed=0A=0ASent from my iPhone=0A=0AOn Dec 27, 2011, at 8:37
AM, flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com> wrote:=0A=0A> --> TeamGrumman-List me
ssage posted by: flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com>=0A> =0A> On 12/24/2011 9:
42 AM, Gary Vogt wrote:=0A>> what engine is in the SR-22?=0A>> =0A>> I thin
k the change to RHB29E is a guess. Plug runs cooler. I don't think=0A>> the
y know the failure mode.=0A>> =0A>> If the SR-22 has angle valves, well, it
's an entirely different animal.=0A>> =0A>> -------------------------------
-----------------------------------------=0A>> *From:* 923te <923te@att.net
>=0A>> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com=0A>> *Sent:* Saturday, December
24, 2011 8:48 AM=0A>> *Subject:* TeamGrumman-List: Spark Plugs - Fine Wire
Safety Warning=0A>> =0A>> I've been looking for reasons why my plane isn't
as fast as it used to=0A>> be. Maybe I found something.=0A>> I found a MSB
concerning fine wire plug failures from Tornado Alley turbo:=0A>> http://w
ww.taturbo.com/TATSR22-SB11-05%20fine%20wire%20spark%20plugs%20initial%20re
lease%20sept%2023%202011.pdf=0A>> Beechtalk has a thread on this issue wher
e they mention that NA or=0A>> Normally aspirated engines have the same fai
lure with fine wire plugs.=0A>> http://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.p
hp?f=37&t=59668&hilit=fine+wire=0A> =0A> The NA engine in the SR22 is
an IO-550N, rated at 310 hp (9.0:1 CR). This was turbo-normalized by TAT (
via STC) and then later on the factory installed a TSIO-550K, rated at 315
hp in the SR22T.=0A> =0A> I think the failure mode is pretty well defined.
- The problems are largely with the turbo-normalized engines but have als
o occurred on the NA engines, both have 9.0:1 CR and a different combustion
chamber than any parallel valve Lycoming engine.=0A> =0A> TAT issued a SB
in late September which applies to the turbo-normalized STC engine with the
fine wire RHB32S spark plugs.- The problems pointed to cracked or damage
d insulators which led to pre-ignition and some engine failures.- NA IO-5
5N engines typically had RHB32E massive electrode plugs installed and the t
urbo-normalized engine typically had the fine wire RHB32S plugs.- No crac
ked insulators were found with the massive electrode plugs.=0A> =0A> TAT is
recommending in SB 11-05 that the fine wire plugs be replaced in the turbo
-normalized STC'd engine with RHB29E plugs or RHB32E plugs if the former ca
nnot be found.- The SB has much more info but here are some excerpts.=0A>
=0A> TAT SB 11-05=0A> "A number of field reports, at least two incidents (
on airport forced landings), and one (non-injury) accident=0A> have prompte
d this service bulletin. The field reports are supported by photographic an
d physical parts=0A> evidence, and by direct experience. Collectively, this
data documents an unusually frequent occurrence of=0A> cracked ceramic ins
ulators found in Champion RHB32S fine wire spark plugs installed in a varie
ty of aircraft.=0A> =0A> Champion RHB32S fine wire plugs were installed as
original equipment in most, but not all, turbonormalized=0A> SR 22 aircraft
(TN SR22). The same failure mode for the cracking of RHB32S fine wire spar
k plugs has also=0A> been observed in normally aspirated SR22 aircraft, a C
olumbia 400, a normally aspirated Bonanza, and a=0A> Cessna T310R.=0A> =0A>
Cracked and damaged ceramic insulators on spark plugs are known to be a co
mmon cause of pre-ignition type=0A> combustion events in aircraft piston en
gines. Pre-ignition combustion events are the most destructive=0A> combusti
on process known to affect piston engines. So far as is known, similar issu
es with RHB32E (massive=0A> style) are not occurring.=0A> =0A> TAT has neit
her seen nor heard of any report of any cracked RHB32E=0A> massive spark pl
ug in that group of aircraft equipped with RHB32E massive spark plugs."=0A>
=0A> I don't believe that Grumman owners have anything to worry about in o
ur Lycoming engines.- I have been running them in my O-320 for quite some
time now as they came with the engine and have had no problems but I don't
think I would buy them due to the extremely high cost and I don't see the
added benefit.- I'd rather replace the massive electrode plugs twice as o
ften or so.- If you feel you have a fouling issue you can use the REM37BY
plugs which are less susceptible.=0A> =0A> Cliff=0A> =0A> Cliff=0A> =0A>
=- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle
========
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Spark Plugs - Fine Wire Safety Warning |
On 12/27/2011 8:55 AM, 923te wrote:
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: 923te<923te@att.net>
>
> Cliff
> You have any experience with spark plug resistance? All my Champion fine wires
were over 5000 ohms. Tempest says over 5000 and expect problems like I have
been experiencing
>
> Engine has been hard to start at least it hasn't started quickly like it used
to and when loading up it misses. I hope to be flying soon to check this out.
I've replaced the fine wires with some massives I had that have good resistance
checks
>
>
> Ned
Not with the fine wire plugs. But I would think the manufacturer's
recommendation would trump others.
I've tested massive electrode ones some and just checked 8 used ones out
of a Tiger that showed a little over 1000 ohms, except for one that was
misfiring and failed to fire at higher air pressures on a plug testing
machine. It's resistance was was high at about 14 megohms! As I recall
all the plugs that I know were firing OK have had pretty low resistance,
like 2K or less.
I do know it is very important to have a good contact with the meter
probes on the electrodes down inside the on the center electrode. You
can get fooled if you are not carefull. Probably need to bead blast the
plug before checking the resistance. Obviously, a plug with high
resistance will make it more difficult for the mag to fire it and all
the other system resistances will be additive. And of course the
voltage the mag can generate is a factor and probably decreases some
over it's life.
Cliff
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Spark Plugs - Fine Wire Safety Warning |
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 27, 2011, at 12:11 PM, Ben Lowther <benlowther@yahoo.com> wrote:
> See Champion Service Letter
>
> From: 923te <923te@att.net>
> To: Cliff <flyv35b@minetfiber.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 5:55 PM
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Spark Plugs - Fine Wire Safety Warning
>
>
> Cliff
> You have any experience with spark plug resistance? All my Champion fine w
ires were over 5000 ohms. Tempest says over 5000 and expect problems like I h
ave been experiencing
>
> Engine has been hard to start at least it hasn't started quickly like it u
sed to and when loading up it misses. I hope to be flying soon to check this
out. I've replaced the fine wires with some massives I had that have good r
esistance checks
>
>
> Ned
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 27, 2011, at 8:37 AM, flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > On 12/24/2011 9:42 AM, Gary Vogt wrote:
> >> what engine is in the SR-22?
> >>
> >> I think the change to RHB29E is a guess. Plug runs cooler. I don't thin
k
> >> they know the failure mode.
> >>
> >> If the SR-22 has angle valves, well, it's an entirely different animal.
> >>
> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> >> *From:* 923te <923te@att.net>
> >> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> >> *Sent:* Saturday, December 24, 2011 8:48 AM
> >> *Subject:* TeamGrumman-List: Spark Plugs - Fine Wire Safety Warning
> >>
> >> I've been looking for reasons why my plane isn't as fast as it used to
> >> be. Maybe I found something.
> >> I found a MSB concerning fine wire plug failures from Tornado Alley tur
bo:
> >> http://www.taturbo.com/TATSR22-SB11-05%20fine%20wire%20spark%20plugs%20
initial%20release%20sept%2023%202011.pdf
> >> Beechtalk has a thread on this issue where they mention that NA or
> >> Normally aspirated engines have the same failure with fine wire plugs.
> >> http://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=59668&hilit=
fine+wire
> >
> > The NA engine in the SR22 is an IO-550N, rated at 310 hp (9.0:1 CR). Thi
s was turbo-normalized by TAT (via STC) and then later on the factory instal
led a TSIO-550K, rated at 315 hp in the SR22T.
> >
> > I think the failure mode is pretty well defined. The problems are large
ly with the turbo-normalized engines but have also occurred on the NA engine
s, both have 9.0:1 CR and a different combustion chamber than any parallel v
alve Lycoming engine.
> >
> > TAT issued a SB in late September which applies to the turbo-normalized S
TC engine with the fine wire RHB32S spark plugs. The problems pointed to cr
acked or damaged insulators which led to pre-ignition and some engine failur
es. NA IO-55N engines typically had RHB32E massive electrode plugs installe
d and the turbo-normalized engine typically had the fine wire RHB32S plugs.
No cracked insulators were found with the massive electrode plugs.
> >
> > TAT is recommending in SB 11-05 that the fine wire plugs be replaced in t
he turbo-normalized STC'd engine with RHB29E plugs or RHB32E plugs if the fo
rmer cannot be found. The SB has much more info but here are some excerpts.
> >
> > TAT SB 11-05
> > "A number of field reports, at least two incidents (on airport forced la
ndings), and one (non-injury) accident
> > have prompted this service bulletin. The field reports are supported by p
hotographic and physical parts
> > evidence, and by direct experience. Collectively, this data documents an
unusually frequent occurrence of
> > cracked ceramic insulators found in Champion RHB32S fine wire spark plug
s installed in a variety of aircraft.
> >
> > Champion RHB32S fine wire plugs were installed as original equipment in m
ost, but not all, turbonormalized
> > SR 22 aircraft (TN SR22). The same failure mode for the cracking of RHB3
2S fine wire spark plugs has also
> > been observed in normally aspirated SR22 aircraft, a Columbia 400, a nor
mally aspirated Bonanza, and a
> > Cessna T310R.
> >
> > Cracked and damaged ceramic insulators on spark plugs are known to be a c
ommon cause of pre-ignition type
> > combustion events in aircraft piston engines. Pre-ignition combustion ev
ents are the most destructive
> > combustion process known to affect piston engines. So far as is known, s
imilar issues with RHB32E (massive
> > style) are not occurring.
> >
> > TAT has neither seen nor heard of any report of any cracked RHB32E
> > massive spark plug in that group of aircraft equipped with RHB32E massiv
e spark plugs."
> >
> > I don't believe that Grumman owners have anything to worry about in our L
ycoming engines. I have been running them in my O-320 for quite some time n
ow as they came with the engine and have had no problems but I don't think I
would buy them due to the extremely high cost and I don't see the added ben
efit. I'd rather replace the massive electrode plugs twice as often or so.
If you feel you have a fouling issue you can use the REM37BY plugs which ar
e less susceptible.
> >
> > Cliff
> >
> > Cliff
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > tp://www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matron
ics -Matt Dralle, List Admin.bsp; --> http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Lista href="http://forums.matronics.com" = -->
>
>
>
>
> <Champion-Fine-Wire-Spark-Plug-Service-Letter.pdf>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Spark Plugs - Fine Wire Safety Warning |
Which one there are many
Care to give a link?
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 27, 2011, at 12:11 PM, Ben Lowther <benlowther@yahoo.com> wrote:
> See Champion Service Letter
>
> From: 923te <923te@att.net>
> To: Cliff <flyv35b@minetfiber.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 5:55 PM
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Spark Plugs - Fine Wire Safety Warning
>
>
> Cliff
> You have any experience with spark plug resistance? All my Champion fine w
ires were over 5000 ohms. Tempest says over 5000 and expect problems like I h
ave been experiencing
>
> Engine has been hard to start at least it hasn't started quickly like it u
sed to and when loading up it misses. I hope to be flying soon to check this
out. I've replaced the fine wires with some massives I had that have good r
esistance checks
>
>
> Ned
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 27, 2011, at 8:37 AM, flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > On 12/24/2011 9:42 AM, Gary Vogt wrote:
> >> what engine is in the SR-22?
> >>
> >> I think the change to RHB29E is a guess. Plug runs cooler. I don't thin
k
> >> they know the failure mode.
> >>
> >> If the SR-22 has angle valves, well, it's an entirely different animal.
> >>
> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> >> *From:* 923te <923te@att.net>
> >> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> >> *Sent:* Saturday, December 24, 2011 8:48 AM
> >> *Subject:* TeamGrumman-List: Spark Plugs - Fine Wire Safety Warning
> >>
> >> I've been looking for reasons why my plane isn't as fast as it used to
> >> be. Maybe I found something.
> >> I found a MSB concerning fine wire plug failures from Tornado Alley tur
bo:
> >> http://www.taturbo.com/TATSR22-SB11-05%20fine%20wire%20spark%20plugs%20
initial%20release%20sept%2023%202011.pdf
> >> Beechtalk has a thread on this issue where they mention that NA or
> >> Normally aspirated engines have the same failure with fine wire plugs.
> >> http://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=59668&hilit=
fine+wire
> >
> > The NA engine in the SR22 is an IO-550N, rated at 310 hp (9.0:1 CR). Thi
s was turbo-normalized by TAT (via STC) and then later on the factory instal
led a TSIO-550K, rated at 315 hp in the SR22T.
> >
> > I think the failure mode is pretty well defined. The problems are large
ly with the turbo-normalized engines but have also occurred on the NA engine
s, both have 9.0:1 CR and a different combustion chamber than any parallel v
alve Lycoming engine.
> >
> > TAT issued a SB in late September which applies to the turbo-normalized S
TC engine with the fine wire RHB32S spark plugs. The problems pointed to cr
acked or damaged insulators which led to pre-ignition and some engine failur
es. NA IO-55N engines typically had RHB32E massive electrode plugs installe
d and the turbo-normalized engine typically had the fine wire RHB32S plugs.
No cracked insulators were found with the massive electrode plugs.
> >
> > TAT is recommending in SB 11-05 that the fine wire plugs be replaced in t
he turbo-normalized STC'd engine with RHB29E plugs or RHB32E plugs if the fo
rmer cannot be found. The SB has much more info but here are some excerpts.
> >
> > TAT SB 11-05
> > "A number of field reports, at least two incidents (on airport forced la
ndings), and one (non-injury) accident
> > have prompted this service bulletin. The field reports are supported by p
hotographic and physical parts
> > evidence, and by direct experience. Collectively, this data documents an
unusually frequent occurrence of
> > cracked ceramic insulators found in Champion RHB32S fine wire spark plug
s installed in a variety of aircraft.
> >
> > Champion RHB32S fine wire plugs were installed as original equipment in m
ost, but not all, turbonormalized
> > SR 22 aircraft (TN SR22). The same failure mode for the cracking of RHB3
2S fine wire spark plugs has also
> > been observed in normally aspirated SR22 aircraft, a Columbia 400, a nor
mally aspirated Bonanza, and a
> > Cessna T310R.
> >
> > Cracked and damaged ceramic insulators on spark plugs are known to be a c
ommon cause of pre-ignition type
> > combustion events in aircraft piston engines. Pre-ignition combustion ev
ents are the most destructive
> > combustion process known to affect piston engines. So far as is known, s
imilar issues with RHB32E (massive
> > style) are not occurring.
> >
> > TAT has neither seen nor heard of any report of any cracked RHB32E
> > massive spark plug in that group of aircraft equipped with RHB32E massiv
e spark plugs."
> >
> > I don't believe that Grumman owners have anything to worry about in our L
ycoming engines. I have been running them in my O-320 for quite some time n
ow as they came with the engine and have had no problems but I don't think I
would buy them due to the extremely high cost and I don't see the added ben
efit. I'd rather replace the massive electrode plugs twice as often or so.
If you feel you have a fouling issue you can use the REM37BY plugs which ar
e less susceptible.
> >
> > Cliff
> >
> > Cliff
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > tp://www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matron
ics -Matt Dralle, List Admin.bsp; --> http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Lista href="http://forums.matronics.com" = -->
>
>
>
>
> <Champion-Fine-Wire-Spark-Plug-Service-Letter.pdf>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Spark Plugs - Fine Wire Safety Warning |
My appology I-attached-a PDF copy, but apparently it didn't attach.=0A
-=0AThe link is: http://www.championaerospace.com/assets/Champion-Fine-Wi
re-Spark-Plug-Service-Letter.pdf=0A =0A=0A________________________________
=0A From: 923te <923te@att.net>=0ATo: "teamgrumman-list@matronics.com" <tea
mgrumman-list@matronics.com> =0ASent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 8:14 PM=0A
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Spark Plugs - Fine Wire Safety Warning=0A
=0A=0AWhich one there are many=0ACare to give a link?=0A=0ASent from my iPh
one=0A=0AOn Dec 27, 2011, at 12:11 PM, Ben Lowther <benlowther@yahoo.com> w
rote:=0A=0A=0ASee Champion Service Letter=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>_________________
_______________=0A> From: 923te <923te@att.net>=0A>To: Cliff <flyv35b@minet
fiber.com> =0A>Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 5:55 PM=0A>Subject: Re: Tea
mGrumman-List: Spark Plugs - Fine Wire Safety Warning=0A> =0A>--> TeamGrumm
an-List message posted by: 923te <923te@att.net>=0A>=0A>Cliff=0A>You have a
ny experience with spark plug resistance? All my Champion fine wires were o
ver 5000 ohms. Tempest says over 5000 and expect problems like I have been
experiencing=0A>=0A>Engine has been hard to start at least it hasn't starte
d quickly like it used to and when loading up it misses. I hope to be flyin
g soon to check this out. I've replaced the fine wires with some massives I
had that have good resistance checks=0A>=0A>=0A>Ned=0A>=0A>Sent from my iP
hone=0A>=0A>On Dec 27, 2011, at 8:37 AM, flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com> w
etfiber.com>=0A>> =0A>> On 12/24/2011 9:42 AM, Gary Vogt wrote:=0A>>> what
engine is in the SR-22?=0A>>> =0A>>> I think the change to RHB29E is a gues
s. Plug runs cooler. I don't think=0A>>> they know the failure mode.=0A>>>
=0A>>> If the SR-22 has angle valves, well, it's an entirely different anim
al.=0A>>> =0A>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
--------------=0A>>> *From:* 923te <923te@att.net>=0A>>> *To:* teamgrumman-
list@matronics.com=0A>>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 24, 2011 8:48 AM=0A>>>
*Subject:* TeamGrumman-List: Spark Plugs - Fine Wire Safety Warning=0A>>>
=0A>>> I've been looking for reasons why my=0A plane isn't as fast as it us
ed to=0A>>> be. Maybe I found something.=0A>>> I found a MSB concerning fin
e wire plug failures from Tornado Alley turbo:=0A>>> http://www.taturbo.com
/TATSR22-SB11-05%20fine%20wire%20spark%20plugs%20initial%20release%20sept%2
023%202011.pdf=0A>>> Beechtalk has a thread on this issue where they mentio
n that NA or=0A>>> Normally aspirated engines have the same failure with fi
ne wire plugs.=0A>>> http://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=37&t
=59668&hilit=fine+wire=0A>> =0A>> The NA engine in the SR22 is an IO-55
0N, rated at 310 hp (9.0:1 CR). This was turbo-normalized by TAT (via STC)
and then later on the factory installed a TSIO-550K, rated at 315 hp in the
SR22T.=0A>> =0A>> I think the failure mode is pretty well defined.- The
problems are largely with the turbo-normalized engines but have also occurr
ed on the NA engines, both have 9.0:1 CR and a different=0A combustion cham
ber than any parallel valve Lycoming engine.=0A>> =0A>> TAT issued a SB in
late September which applies to the turbo-normalized STC engine with the fi
ne wire RHB32S spark plugs.- The problems pointed to cracked or damaged i
nsulators which led to pre-ignition and some engine failures.- NA IO-55N
engines typically had RHB32E massive electrode plugs installed and the turb
o-normalized engine typically had the fine wire RHB32S plugs.- No cracked
insulators were found with the massive electrode plugs.=0A>> =0A>> TAT is
recommending in SB 11-05 that the fine wire plugs be replaced in the turbo-
normalized STC'd engine with RHB29E plugs or RHB32E plugs if the former can
not be found.- The SB has much more info but here are some excerpts.=0A>>
=0A>> TAT SB 11-05=0A>> "A number of field reports, at least two incidents
(on airport forced landings), and one (non-injury) accident=0A>> have prom
pted this=0A service bulletin. The field reports are supported by photograp
hic and physical parts=0A>> evidence, and by direct experience. Collectivel
y, this data documents an unusually frequent occurrence of=0A>> cracked cer
amic insulators found in Champion RHB32S fine wire spark plugs installed in
a variety of aircraft.=0A>> =0A>> Champion RHB32S fine wire plugs were ins
talled as original equipment in most, but not all, turbonormalized=0A>> SR
22 aircraft (TN SR22). The same failure mode for the cracking of RHB32S fin
e wire spark plugs has also=0A>> been observed in normally aspirated SR22 a
ircraft, a Columbia 400, a normally aspirated Bonanza, and a=0A>> Cessna T3
10R.=0A>> =0A>> Cracked and damaged ceramic insulators on spark plugs are k
nown to be a common cause of pre-ignition type=0A>> combustion events in ai
rcraft piston engines. Pre-ignition combustion events are the most destruct
ive=0A>> combustion process known to affect=0A piston engines. So far as is
known, similar issues with RHB32E (massive=0A>> style) are not occurring.
=0A>> =0A>> TAT has neither seen nor heard of any report of any cracked RHB
32E=0A>> massive spark plug in that group of aircraft equipped with RHB32E
massive spark plugs."=0A>> =0A>> I don't believe that Grumman owners have a
nything to worry about in our Lycoming engines.- I have been running them
in my O-320 for quite some time now as they came with the engine and have
had no problems but I don't think I would buy them due to the extremely hig
h cost and I don't see the added benefit.- I'd rather replace the massive
electrode plugs twice as often or so.- If you feel you have a fouling is
sue you can use the REM37BY plugs which are less susceptible.=0A>> =0A>> Cl
iff=0A>> =0A>> Cliff=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>>=0Atp://www.matronic
s.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics- - - -
- - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admin.bsp; --> http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Lista href="http://forums.matronics.com"=0A=-
--> =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A<Champion-Fine-Wire-Spark-Plug-Service-Letter.p
====================
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Spark Plugs - Fine Wire Safety Warning |
On 12/27/2011 12:07 PM, Ben Lowther wrote:
> My appology I attached a PDF copy, but apparently it didn't attach.
> The link is:
> http://www.championaerospace.com/assets/Champion-Fine-Wire-Spark-Plug-Service-Letter.pdf
Seems like everyone wants to blame someone else for the problem!
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