---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 01/27/12: 1 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 10:25 AM - Re: Tiger Crash: 11/12/99 (Gary Vogt) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 10:25:39 AM PST US From: Gary Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Tiger Crash: 11/12/99 Got a reply . . .-=0A=0A"I'm not so sure.- The weight design is a small diameter tube stuck through the larger tube and welded, which changes the grain structure of the Normalized tube.- The instantaneous jolt of the tu rbulence would stress the tube right where it changes section going into th e larger tube, and if sufficiently powerful would tear the tube before it h ad a chance to rotate the aileron so that the bolt would reach the stop." =0A=0AI appreciate the information, but, based on what I saw, it's very unl ikely the entire end of the aileron torque tube could have been snapped off and dragged out without damaging the stops if the bolt had been there. - =0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Gary Vogt =0ATo: Teamgrumman List =0ASent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 11:43 AM=0ASubject: TeamGrumman-List: Tiger Cras h: 11/12/99=0A =0A=0AThis was forwarded to me from gg because it happened in my backyard (sort of).-=0A==============0A =0AI was called to go look at the wreckage in Van Nuys by one of the accide nt investigators who was also my AP/AI mentor.=0A=0AI saw the wing and the aileron and noticed the missing counterweights. -The counter-weight holes in both wingtips had a tear in the fiberglass where the counterweight arm might go through IF the counterweight had been far enough down into the win d to where the drag on the counterweight might pull it backwards. -I note d the aileron stops. -=0AThe aileron stops WERE STILL THERE AND THEY HAD NO DAMAGE.=0A=0AMy conclusion, to the friend of mine, was that counterweigh t had been installed=0A wrong with the bolt that acts as the stop not insta lled where it should be. -=0A=0ASarcastic note: -Quote: -"You don't n eed a Grumman specific mechanic to work on a Grumman."=0A=0AForward to GG i f you wish.=0A==============0A=0A"On November 12, 1999, at 1738 hours Pacific standard time, an American General AG5B, N1195 L, was substantially damaged by an encounter with in-flight turbulence whil e on downwind leg for landing at the Van Nuys, California, municipal airpor t. ......=0A=0AThe pilot reported that ...... there was an instantaneous jo lt of sudden severe turbulence that ended before he could take any action. His left hand was on the flight controls and his right hand was on the thro ttle. The pilot said the flight control in his left hand felt "like the han dle of a sledge hammer when you strike a steel pipe.-=0A=0A.... He felt t hat the speed was normal, there was no shrieking or wind noise, and the pil ot made no control input before or after the turbulence.=0A---------------- I don't believe this. -Anyone who has ever been hit with the slightest t urbulence instinctively corrects, or over corrects, it.=0A=0A=0AOne of the aileron mass balance weights was located on November 16, 1999, in the bedro om of an unoccupied apartment where it had penetrated the roof and ceiling. The apartment is located beneath the downwind leg flight path on the east side of the airport approximately midfield.-=0A---------------- I'd like to have seen this. -It hadn't been located yet.=0A=0AThe Safety Board inv estigator examined the aircraft on November 16, 1999. Each wing is assemble d in three sections, which are spliced together. The tip section of the lef t wing, outboard of the=0A second splice, was deformed upward about 5 degre es with respect to the inboard section of the wing. The upper wing skin exh ibited compression buckling. In comparing the two damage areas, the bucklin g was substantial on the outboard wing section and modest on the upper wing skin inboard of the tip splice. The right wing exhibited modest compressio n buckling over its entire span but was not visibly deformed. There was no visible damage to the fuselage, empennage, or landing gear. The mass balanc e weights on both ailerons were absent. The steel tubes supporting the mass balances separated immediately forward of the weld attachment to the ailer on torque tube in the vicinity of the heat affected region of the weld. Bot h failures exhibited a shear lip on the top portion and downward bending on the bottom portion. There was no damage to control stops or evidence of ov er-travel."=0A----------------- NOTE: -"There was no damage to control st ops or evidence of over-travel."=0AIf the counterweight had been installed correctly, the forces needed to tear off the weight would have also ripped =========================0A ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message teamgrumman-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.