Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:04 AM - Re: Oil consumption has increased...maybe (flyv35b)
2. 06:20 AM - Re: Oil Consumption (flyv35b)
3. 07:32 AM - Re: Cabin heat nylon bushings (Garner Rice)
4. 05:49 PM - Re: Oil consumption has increased...maybe (Dan Baisley)
5. 06:16 PM - Re: Cabin heat nylon bushings (Dan Baisley)
6. 06:45 PM - Re: Cabin heat nylon bushings (Dan Baisley)
7. 06:48 PM - Re: Oil Consumption (Gary Vogt)
8. 06:57 PM - Re: Oil Consumption (923te)
9. 06:58 PM - Re: Oil consumption has increased...maybe (Gary Vogt)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Oil consumption has increased...maybe |
On 2/19/2012 5:06 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
> No it's not Cliff...
>
> It made a lot of money for the guy that holds the STC.
>
> Barry
>
Duh! But still worthless (almost) at taking oil vapor out of the
crankcase breather and returning the oil back to the engine.
If you saw the oil (and water) that is being returned to the engine I
don't think you would want the air-oil separator. Heck, run it in to a
container and at least that way you can empty it once in awhile.
Cliff
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Consumption |
On 2/19/2012 8:09 AM, brian sandberg wrote:
>
> Compressions have been good at every annual for years, and power output
> is still great with normal EGT/CHT across the cylinders, but I'll
> recheck for blowby. I never fill more than 6 quarts and find it settles
> around 5.5 quarts. It is possible that I simply didn't add as much as I
> thought before the 5.5 hour flight from DC to Memphis; landed with just
> more than 4 quarts remaining (cold engine) which is the lowest I've ever
> seen and way below my comfort level despite the Lycoming
> recommendations. Maybe 1/4-1/3 quart lost per hour doesn't seem
> horrible. Perhaps the 2 straight hours in crazy turbulence entrained
> extra oil overboard, although that seems like a stretch.
>
> Breather 1-1.5 inches out like normal. Thanks.
>
> -Brian
2 qts of oil in 5.5 hrs is getting a bit much, although still meeting
Lycoming's specs. I'd say your piston rings and cylinders are getting
well worn, unless you are just breaking in new cylinders and the rings
never seated properly. Pull your bottom spark plugs and see if they are
wet with oil. If so the hand writing is on the wall.
Cliff
Message 3
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| Subject: | Cabin heat nylon bushings |
The company that I bought them from back in 2001 was Hartwell Commercial Pr
oducts. The tools came from Placentia Ca=2C but the main office is in Chica
go. The last phone number I have is 714-993-2752. The tool for the nas1368n
4c is a HT-4 flipping tool. HT-6 for the nas1368n6c. I have bought 20 of t
hem and loaned them out for those that were in need. Needless to say=2C th
e loaners did not come back. As I get older=2C I cant remember who I loaned
them to=2C but I'm sure those that I loaned them to=2C are older than I am
. So the real question is for my older customers is=2C did you remember to
tighten up the prop bolts before you put that shiney pointed thingy on the
front.
Garnertic-toc
From: teamgrumman@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cabin heat nylon bushings
Garner doesn't have one any more.
From: 923TE <923te@att.net>
To: "teamgrumman-list@matronics.com" <teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday=2C February 18=2C 2012 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cabin heat nylon bushings
It's been about 6 years ago but as I recall Garner has a tool that he loans
out when you get the bushings and seal material from him. The tool must ha
ve worked pretty good because I don't remember it being a difficult repair
Ned
<><
On Feb 18=2C 2012=2C at 7:52 PM=2C Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
OK=2C what is the trick to getting the bushings installed? I tried fabrica
ting several different tools. I got one of the bushings to work. The othe
r 3 didn't.
Is there a better solution for these
bushings?
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Oil consumption has increased...maybe |
It can also be an effective tool to remove crank nose seals. Take an M20
out of service, put it in the freezer overnight, then cut it in half with a
bandsaw. Tell me how it is supposed to function as a breather then...
DWB
On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 6:04 AM, flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com> wrote:
>
> On 2/19/2012 5:06 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
>
>> No it's not Cliff...
>>
>> It made a lot of money for the guy that holds the STC.
>>
>> Barry
>>
>>
> Duh! But still worthless (almost) at taking oil vapor out of the
> crankcase breather and returning the oil back to the engine.
>
>
> If you saw the oil (and water) that is being returned to the engine I
> don't think you would want the air-oil separator. Heck, run it in to a
> container and at least that way you can empty it once in awhile.
>
> Cliff
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin heat nylon bushings |
Hartwell is still around. Don't know if they still have anything to do
with this product, they mostly manufacture latches of various kinds... They
are a supplier for a project I've been working for several years now...
I've been dealing with them (on the engineering side) in regards to this *
fantastic* product: http://www.hartwellcorp.com/pdfs/SGcsB787bif.pdf
Contact info is here: http://www.hartwellcorp.com/html/contact.html
You may have better luck with the phone number listed as "HASCO", that's
their spares/aftermarket services division.
DWB
On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 7:32 AM, Garner Rice <garnerrice@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The company that I bought them from back in 2001 was Hartwell Commercial
> Products. The tools came from Placentia Ca, but the main office is in
> Chicago. The last phone number I have is 714-993-2752. The tool for the
> nas1368n4c is a HT-4 flipping tool. HT-6 for the nas1368n6c. I have bought
> 20 of them and loaned them out for those that were in need. Needless to
> say, the loaners did not come back. As I get older, I cant remember who I
> loaned them to, but I'm sure those that I loaned them to, are older than I
> am. So the real question is for my older customers is, did you remember to
> tighten up the prop bolts before you put that shiney pointed thingy on the
> front.
>
> Garner
> tic-toc
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 19:04:16 -0800
> From: teamgrumman@yahoo.com
>
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cabin heat nylon bushings
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Garner doesn't have one any more.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* 923TE <923te@att.net>
> *To:* "teamgrumman-list@matronics.com" <teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 18, 2012 6:15 PM
> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cabin heat nylon bushings
>
> It's been about 6 years ago but as I recall Garner has a tool that he
> loans out when you get the bushings and seal material from him. The tool
> must have worked pretty good because I don't remember it being a difficult
> repair
>
> Ned
>
> <><
>
> On Feb 18, 2012, at 7:52 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> OK, what is the trick to getting the bushings installed? I tried
> fabricating several different tools. I got one of the bushings to work.
> The other 3 didn't.
>
> Is there a better solution for these bushings?
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin heat nylon bushings |
On second look, it appears that they spun that part of the product line off
as Hartwell-Dzus... which then became Southco-Dzus, which then renamed
itself Southco. It appears that they still make a grommet similar to the
NAS1368, and they mention an installation tool on their catalog page.
http://www.southco.com/product/class.aspx?cid=7538
DWB
On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 6:15 PM, Dan Baisley <slacktide@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hartwell is still around. Don't know if they still have anything to do
> with this product, they mostly manufacture latches of various kinds... They
> are a supplier for a project I've been working for several years now...
> I've been dealing with them (on the engineering side) in regards to this *
> fantastic* product: http://www.hartwellcorp.com/pdfs/SGcsB787bif.pdf
>
> Contact info is here: http://www.hartwellcorp.com/html/contact.html
>
> You may have better luck with the phone number listed as "HASCO", that's
> their spares/aftermarket services division.
>
> DWB
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 7:32 AM, Garner Rice <garnerrice@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>> The company that I bought them from back in 2001 was Hartwell Commercial
>> Products. The tools came from Placentia Ca, but the main office is in
>> Chicago. The last phone number I have is 714-993-2752. The tool for the
>> nas1368n4c is a HT-4 flipping tool. HT-6 for the nas1368n6c. I have bought
>> 20 of them and loaned them out for those that were in need. Needless to
>> say, the loaners did not come back. As I get older, I cant remember who I
>> loaned them to, but I'm sure those that I loaned them to, are older than I
>> am. So the real question is for my older customers is, did you remember to
>> tighten up the prop bolts before you put that shiney pointed thingy on the
>> front.
>>
>> Garner
>> tic-toc
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 19:04:16 -0800
>> From: teamgrumman@yahoo.com
>>
>> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cabin heat nylon bushings
>> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>
>>
>> Garner doesn't have one any more.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* 923TE <923te@att.net>
>> *To:* "teamgrumman-list@matronics.com" <teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, February 18, 2012 6:15 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cabin heat nylon bushings
>>
>> It's been about 6 years ago but as I recall Garner has a tool that he
>> loans out when you get the bushings and seal material from him. The tool
>> must have worked pretty good because I don't remember it being a difficult
>> repair
>>
>> Ned
>>
>> <><
>>
>> On Feb 18, 2012, at 7:52 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> OK, what is the trick to getting the bushings installed? I tried
>> fabricating several different tools. I got one of the bushings to work.
>> The other 3 didn't.
>>
>> Is there a better solution for these bushings?
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Consumption |
Seals won't work on sodium filled valves. -These guides are designed to b
e run with a minimum clearance.=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A
From: 923te <923te@att.net>=0ATo: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com =0ASent:
Sunday, February 19, 2012 2:08 PM=0ASubject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Oil Cons
umption=0A =0A=0AWould have been nice if this model of the =0ALycoming had
some valve stem seals. Might have helped with too much oil capor in =0Athe
crankcase and maybe less coking on the stems. Gee even the lowly VW and =0A
Corvair had valve stem seals!=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A>From: Gary
Vogt =0A>To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Sunday, February 19
, 2012 1:19 PM=0A>Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Oil Consumption=0A>=0A>
=0A>I played with this a little also. -I did the 'inside the cowl' trick
. -Problem is, the engine needs to be evacuated. -I ran the breather t
o the airbox on my Cheetah for a while. -I also thought about a PVC valv
e and then to the rocker box. -Too much aggravation. -=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>
________________________________=0A> From: 923TE <923te@att.net>=0A>To: "te
amgrumman-list@matronics.com" <teamgrumman-list@matronics.com> =0A>Sent: S
unday, February 19, 2012 9:04 AM=0A>Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Oil Co
nsumption=0A>=0A>=0A>Brian,=0A>I have been experimenting with placement of
the breather tube. I haven't finished but I have found that it makes a dif
ference on "overboard" oil. I left the whole breather tube inside the cowl
near the bottom and lost very little oil. There was just a very little bi
t puddled just below the breather tube exit on the cowl floor. With the tu
be end flush with the outside of the cowl it loses more, enough oil to tra
ck the belly all the way to the tail. With it out about an inch it loses l
ess oil than that. That's the extent of my testing so far. My plane is sim
ilar to yours where it settles around 6 qts but that is also dependent on
where the breather exit is. I'm thinking that the best place for the breat
her exit will be somewhere in front of the exit ramp inside the cowl where
I expect the pressure to be slightly higher than on the outside of the co
wl.=0A>Regards,=0A>Ned=0A>=0A><><=0A>=0A>On Feb 19, 2012, at 10:09 AM, bria
n sandberg <sandbag23@msn.com> wrote:=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>>=0A>>Compressions h
ave been good at every annual for years, and =0A power output is still g
reat with normal EGT/CHT across the cylinders, but =0A I'll recheck for
blowby.- I never fill more than 6 quarts and find it =0A settles aroun
d 5.5 quarts.- It is possible that I simply didn't add as =0A much as
I thought before the 5.5 hour flight from DC to Memphis; landed with =0A
just more than 4 quarts remaining (cold engine) which is the lowest I've
=0A ever seen and way below my comfort level despite the Lycoming =0A
recommendations.- Maybe 1/4-1/3 quart lost per hour doesn't seem =0A
horrible.- Perhaps the 2 straight hours in crazy turbulence entrained =0A
extra oil overboard, although that seems like a =0A stretch.=0A>>-
=0A>>Breather 1-1.5 inches out like normal.- =0A Thanks.=0A>>-=0A>>-
Brian=0A>>=0A>>===========0At">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List=0A========== cs.com ==
======== matronics.com/contribution=0A=======
=== =0A>_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumma
n-List">http:/========= =0A>=0A>=0A>href="http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?
TeamGrumman-List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matro
nics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matron
====================
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Consumption |
You might want to run that one by your buddy Ken over at Lycon. I hear
they run seals on sodium filled valves when using gapless rings.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Vogt
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Oil Consumption
Seals won't work on sodium filled valves. These guides are designed
to be run with a minimum clearance.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: 923te <923te@att.net>
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Oil Consumption
Would have been nice if this model of the Lycoming had some valve stem
seals. Might have helped with too much oil capor in the crankcase and
maybe less coking on the stems. Gee even the lowly VW and Corvair had
valve stem seals!
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Vogt
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Oil Consumption
I played with this a little also. I did the 'inside the cowl'
trick. Problem is, the engine needs to be evacuated. I ran the
breather to the airbox on my Cheetah for a while. I also thought about
a PVC valve and then to the rocker box. Too much aggravation.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: 923TE <923te@att.net>
To: "teamgrumman-list@matronics.com"
<teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Oil Consumption
Brian,
I have been experimenting with placement of the breather tube. I
haven't finished but I have found that it makes a difference on
"overboard" oil. I left the whole breather tube inside the cowl near the
bottom and lost very little oil. There was just a very little bit
puddled just below the breather tube exit on the cowl floor. With the
tube end flush with the outside of the cowl it loses more, enough oil to
track the belly all the way to the tail. With it out about an inch it
loses less oil than that. That's the extent of my testing so far. My
plane is similar to yours where it settles around 6 qts but that is also
dependent on where the breather exit is. I'm thinking that the best
place for the breather exit will be somewhere in front of the exit ramp
inside the cowl where I expect the pressure to be slightly higher than
on the outside of the cowl.
Regards,
Ned
<><
On Feb 19, 2012, at 10:09 AM, brian sandberg <sandbag23@msn.com>
wrote:
Compressions have been good at every annual for years, and power
output is still great with normal EGT/CHT across the cylinders, but I'll
recheck for blowby. I never fill more than 6 quarts and find it settles
around 5.5 quarts. It is possible that I simply didn't add as much as I
thought before the 5.5 hour flight from DC to Memphis; landed with just
more than 4 quarts remaining (cold engine) which is the lowest I've ever
seen and way below my comfort level despite the Lycoming
recommendations. Maybe 1/4-1/3 quart lost per hour doesn't seem
horrible. Perhaps the 2 straight hours in crazy turbulence entrained
extra oil overboard, although that seems like a stretch.
Breather 1-1.5 inches out like normal. Thanks.
-Brian
=========
t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
=========
cs.com
=========
matronics.com/contribution
=========
_blank"
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http:/==
======
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matro===================
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Oil consumption has increased...maybe |
you give it too much credit=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A Fro
m: flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com>=0ATo: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
=0ASent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 2:42 PM=0ASubject: Re: TeamGrumman-List:
Oil consumption has increased...maybe=0A =0A--> TeamGrumman-List message p
osted by: flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com>=0A=0AOn 2/18/2012 7:02 PM, Gary
Vogt wrote:=0A=0A> Check compressions for blow-by. An air-oil separator wil
l only cost you=0A> money. I have 3 of the M-20 air-oil separators. I'd sel
===============
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