---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 04/23/12: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:08 AM - Re: Cowling (Dan Schmitz) 2. 07:22 AM - Re: High CHTs Epilogue (jwellum@AOL.COM) 3. 10:21 AM - Re: Cowling (Gary Vogt) 4. 10:22 AM - Re: High CHTs Epilogue (Gary Vogt) 5. 11:04 AM - Re: Cowling (Dan Schmitz) 6. 12:03 PM - Re: Cowling (Gary) 7. 02:26 PM - Re: Cowling (FLYaDIVE) 8. 09:45 PM - Re: Cowling (923te) 9. 09:46 PM - Re: High CHTs Epilogue (923te) 10. 11:32 PM - Re: Cowling (Gary L Vogt) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:08:41 AM PST US From: Dan Schmitz Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling SSBiZWxpZXZlIG15IGVuZ2luZSBpcyAwLjQgZGVncmVlcyBkb3duIHRocnVzdC4gIEkgdGhvdWdo dCB0aGF0IHdhcyBpbiB0aGUgdGFyZ2V0IHJhbmdlLiAgSXQgbWF0Y2hlZCB0aGUgb2xkIGNvd2wg cXVpdGUgbmljZWx5IGFuZCB0aGUgbmV3IGNvd2wsIHdoZXJlIHlvdSBoYWQgbWFya2VkIHNvbWUg bGlrZWx5IGxpbmVzIG1hdGNoZWQgdXAgYWxtb3N0IHBlcmZlY3RseS4gIEluIHRoZSBvbmUgcGlj dHVyZSB3aGVyZSB0aGUgZW5naW5lIGxvb2tzIGhpZ2gsIGl0IHdhcyBhIHZlcnkgZWFybHkgcGlj dHVyZS4gIFRoZSBjb3dsIHdhcyBqdXN0IHJlc3Rpbmcgb24gdGhlIGVuZ2luZSB3aXRob3V0IGFu eSBpbnRlcm5hbCBzdXBwb3J0IGF0IHRoYXQgcG9pbnQuICBJIGRvbuKAmXQgY3VycmVudGx5IGhh dmUgYW55IGJhZmZsZSBwaWN0dXJlcy4gIEkgd2FudCB0byByZXBsYWNlIHRoZSBib3R0b20gIzQg c3BhcmsgcGx1ZyBzb29uLCBzbyBob3BlZnVsbHkgSeKAmWxsIHJlbWVtYmVyIHRoZW4uDQoNCk9o LCBvbmUgY2hhbmdlIEkgaW5zaXN0ZWQgb246ICBUaGUgb2xkIGFpciBpbnRha2UgYWJvdmUgdGhl ICMzIGN5bGluZGVyIHVzZWQgdG8gaGF2ZSBhIGdyYXRpbmcuICBUaGUgbmV3IGJhZmZsZXMgc2lt cGx5IGhhZCBhbiBvcGVuIGhvbGUuICBJIGhhZCB2aXNpb25zIG9mIGEgYmlyZCBxdWlldGx5IG5l c3RpbmcgYmFjayB0aGVyZSBhbmQgbWUgdHJ5aW5nIHRvIHRha2Ugb2ZmIHdpdGggYSBiaXJkIG5l c3QgY292ZXJpbmcgdGhlIGFpciBmaWx0ZXIuICBTbyBteSBiYWZmbGVzIGhhdmUgYSBncmF0ZSBv dmVyIHRoZSBhaXIgaW50YWtlIGhvbGUuDQoNCkRhbg0KDQpGcm9tOiBvd25lci10ZWFtZ3J1bW1h bi1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIFttYWlsdG86b3duZXItdGVhbWdydW1tYW4tbGlz dC1zZXJ2ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbV0gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIEdhcnkgVm9ndA0KU2VudDogRnJp ZGF5LCBBcHJpbCAyMCwgMjAxMiAxOjU0IFBNDQpUbzogdGVhbWdydW1tYW4tbGlzdEBtYXRyb25p Y3MuY29tDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogVGVhbUdydW1tYW4tTGlzdDogQ293bGluZw0KDQpEYW4NCg0K VGhhbmtzIGZvciBwb3N0aW5nLg0KDQpJIGp1c3QgZmluaXNoZWQgdGhlIGluc3RhbGxhdGlvbiBv biBEZWFuJ3MgcGxhbmUuICBIZSdzIGlzIGdldHRpbmcgYW4gYWRkaXRpb25hbCA2IG9yIDcga25v dHMgYW5kIGEgZ2FsbG9uIGFuIGhvdXIgbGVzcy4NCg0KQ2FtLUxvY3M6ICBUaGUgaG9sZSBmb3Ig dGhlIHJlY2VwdGFjbGUgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGF0IGxlYXN0IDUvOCBpbmNoZXMuICBJIHRoZW4gdXNl IGEgY291bnRlcnNpbmsgYml0IHRvIGZsYWlyIHRoZSBlZGdlLiAgT25jZSB0aGUgQ2FtbG9jIGlz IHVubGF0Y2hlZCwgcHVsbCBpdCBzbyBpdCdzIGFsbCB0aGUgd2F5IG91dC4gIEhvbGQgb250byB0 aGUgdHdvIGVuZCBvbmVzIGFuZCBwdWxsIG91dCBhbmQgb3Blbi4NCg0KSW4gdGhlIHBpYyBpdCBs b29rcyBsaWtlIHRoZSBlbmdpbmUgaXMgd2F5IHRvbyBmYXIgdXAuICBJdCBuZWVkcyB0byBiZSBh Ym91dCAuNSB0byAxIGRlZ3JlZSBkb3duLg0KDQpJIGhhZCB0byBtYWtlIHRoZSBmcm9udCBjeWxp bmRlcnMgcnVuIGhvdCBpbiBjbGltYiB0byBtYWtlIHRoZW0gZXZlbiBpbiBjcnVpc2UuDQoNCklm IHlvdSBoYXZlIHBpY3Mgb2YgdGhlIGJhZmZsZXMsIEknZCByZWFsbHkgbGlrZSB0byBzZWUgdGhl bS4NCg0KV2hlbiBpbnN0YWxsaW5nIERlYW4ncyBjb3dsaW5nLCBJIGZvdW5kIEkgbmVlZGVkIHRv IHR3ZWFrIHNvbWUgYmFmZmxlcy4gIEkgaGF2ZSB0aGVtIGluIGZvciByZXZpc2lvbi4gIEhvcGVm dWxseSB0aGUgbmV4dCBiYXRjaCB3aWxsIGJlIGNsb3Nlci4NCg0KR2FyeQ0KDQo ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:36 AM PST US From: jwellum@AOL.COM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: High CHTs Epilogue The only time that I have seen temps over 400 degrees has been on newly installed cylinders and I have never seen the oil temp above 195. Typically see 375 on the hottest cylinder on a HOT day. Saturday morning was cool at about 50 degrees. I don't think the hottest cylinder made it to 360 degrees. That was at 2000 feet, leaned out, straight and level at 2700 rpm. Our plane has an EI, 4 probe CHT/EGT gauge which probably reads less than a JPI. Number 2 cylinder is always the coldest at about 320 degrees and sometimes I think it runs too cold. In a message dated 4/21/2012 11:53:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time, teamgrumman@yahoo.com writes: Mark, That's good to hear. When my plane is "dialed in" it will still run 410 straight and level at 4000 feet. Can't wait to get the IO360 on and finished. Gary Sent from my iPad On Apr 21, 2012, at 6:30 PM, "Mark T. Mueller" <_mark.t.mueller@comcast.net_ (mailto:mark.t.mueller@comcast.net) > wrote: A few weeks ago I asked for advice/comments on high CHTs after my annual inspection. I appreciate the responses I got back, and most concentrated on baffling and timing. My IA swore the timing on the engine was correct, and the cabin heating duct in front of the exit ramp would not effect cooling flow much. Spent a day trying to troubleshoot, and he became convinced it was an instrumentation issue. Kind of made sense, but I was skeptical. He did find one of the CHT probes had significant tip wear (they were well over 10 years old...) After new probe installation, the monitor indicated a 10 degree drop in CHTs, but still running well over 430 in cruise... Last weekend, I re-routed the heater duct away and around the exit ramps. A pain, but just took some time and extra materials. Noticed an immediate improvement in cooling, but CHTs were still too high for my liking. I ordered a Mag-Rite timing tool kit from ATS. Digital protractor and nylon cylinder probe to enable very precise location of actual TDC (as opposed to a mark on a ring and location on case.) Can't say enough good things about this kit (worth every penny), very easy to use, and the digital protractor has 1/10 degree resolution. Re-timed my mags (I have a LASAR ignition) to specs. To say the timing was 'off' is an understatement. It was WAY off. The smoothness of the LASAR masked the issue well, and the motor put out good power. Now that it is 'dialed in' to within a tenth of a degree of accuracy, the CHTs dropped over 20F. So, I improved cooling air flow, and fixed my timing. This is AFTER paying an IA for a complete annual, and coming back for troubleshooting. At the end of the day, the lesson I learned is after over 10 years of ownership, I will know when 33R is "dialed in" or not regardless of what an IA may believe even if he has been taking care of this aircraft for several years... Mark href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:21:19 AM PST US From: Gary Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling "So my baffles have a grate over the air intake hole."=0A=0AI actually disc ussed that with a DER. =C2-There was a concern over impact ice blocking t he hole. =C2-I didn't buy it but who am I to argue. =C2-Leaving it off made it simple. =C2-How did you attach the screen? =C2-Seems simple eno ugh.=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Dan Schmitz =0ATo: "teamgrumman-list@matronics.com" =0ASent: Monday, April 23, 2012 5:05 AM=0ASubject: RE: TeamGru mman-List: Cowling=0A =0A=0A =0AI believe my engine is 0.4 degrees down thr ust.=C2- I thought that was in the target range.=C2- It matched the old cowl quite nicely and the new cowl, where you had marked some likely lines matched up almost perfectly.=C2- In the one picture where the engine loo ks high, it was a very early picture.=C2- The cowl was just resting on th e engine without any internal support at that point.=C2- I don=C3=A2 =82=AC=84=A2t currently have any baffle pictures.=C2- I want to replac e the bottom #4 spark plug soon, so hopefully I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2ll r emember then.=0A=C2-=0AOh, one change I insisted on: =C2-The old air in take above the #3 cylinder used to have a grating.=C2- The new baffles si mply had an open hole.=C2- I had visions of a bird quietly nesting back t here and me trying to take off with a bird nest covering the air filter.=C2 - So my baffles have a grate over the air intake hole.=0A=C2-=0ADan=0A =C2-=0AFrom:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tea mgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Vogt=0ASent: Friday, April 20, 2012 1:54 PM=0ATo: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling=0A=C2-=0ADan=0A=C2-=0AThanks for posting. =C2 -=0A=C2-=0AI just finished the installation on Dean's plane. =C2-He's is getting an additional 6 or 7 knots and a gallon an hour less.=0A=C2- =0ACam-Locs: =C2-The hole for the receptacle should be at least 5/8 inche s. =C2-I then use a countersink bit to flair the edge. =C2-Once the Cam loc is unlatched, pull it so it's all the way out. =C2-Hold onto the two end ones and pull out and open. =C2-=0A=C2-=0AIn the pic it looks like the engine is way too far up. =C2-It needs to be about .5 to 1 degree dow n. =C2-=0A=C2-=0AI had to make the front cylinders run hot in climb to make them even in cruise.=0A=C2-=0AIf you have pics of the baffles, I'd r eally like to see them. =C2-=0A=C2-=0AWhen installing Dean's cowling, I found I needed to tweak some baffles. =C2-I have them in for revision. =C2-Hopefully the next batch will be closer.=0A=C2-=0AGary=0A=C2-=0A =C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9Eg(=93=C5-=C3=93M4 =C3=93G=C3=9Aq=C3=BC=C2=A2=C3=C3=A2z=C2=B9=C3=9E=C3=81=C3=8A.=C2=AE'=C2 =AB8^M=C3=C2=C2=BB=C2=84=A2=C2=A9=C3=8B=C5-=C3=8BD=84=A2 =C2=A8=C2=A5=C5-=C3=AE=EF=BD,z=C3=98^1=C2=ABk=C2=A2x=C5=93=C2=B0=C2=B8 =C2=AC=C2=B4W=C5=A1=C2=B6=C3=C3=9E=C2=B0=C3'=C2=AF=C5-=C2=AD=C2=A2 =C2=BBhn=C2=BA0=C2=B1=C3=AD=C3=A9=C5=A1=C5=B8"=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=9B =C2=AD=C5-X=C2=AD=B0=C3=AB,=C2=B9=C3=88Z=C2=B0=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B5I =C3J=C3=C3=ACr=C2=B8=C2=A9=C2=B6*' ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:22:10 AM PST US From: Gary Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: High CHTs Epilogue Based on a year of flying with an EI mounted above my JPI, I'd have to say that if you saw CHTs anywhere near 400 on an EI, be worried. -A JPI would be showing over 470 at that point.=0A=0A=0A_______________________________ _=0A From: "jwellum@AOL.COM" =0ATo: teamgrumman-list@matro nics.com =0ASent: Monday, April 23, 2012 7:20 AM=0ASubject: Re: TeamGrumman -List: High CHTs Epilogue=0A =0A=0A-=0AThe only time that I have seen tem ps over 400 degrees has been on newly =0Ainstalled cylinders and I have nev er seen the oil temp above 195. Typically see =0A375 on the hottest cylinde r on a HOT day. Saturday morning was cool at about 50 =0Adegrees. I don't t hink the hottest cylinder made it to 360 degrees. That was at =0A2000 feet, leaned out,-straight and level at 2700 rpm. Our plane =0Ahas-an EI,- 4 probe- CHT/EGT gauge which-probably reads less =0Athan a JPI. Number 2 cylinder is always the coldest at about 320 degrees and =0Asometimes I th ink it runs too cold. =0A-=0A-=0A-=0A-=0A-=0A-=0A-=0A-=0A -=0AIn a message dated 4/21/2012 11:53:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time, =0A teamgrumman@yahoo.com writes:=0AMark,=0A>=0A>=0A>That's good to hear. When my plane is "dialed in" it will still run 410 straight and level at 4000 f eet. Can't wait to get the IO360 on and finished.-=0A>=0A>=0A>GarySent f rom my iPad=0A>=0A>On Apr 21, 2012, at 6:30 PM, "Mark T. Mueller" wrote:=0A>=0A>=0A>A few weeks ago I asked for advice/c omments on high CHTs after my annual inspection. -I appreciate the respo nses I got back, and most concentrated on baffling and timing. =0A>>=0A>> =0A>>My IA swore the timing on the engine was correct, and the cabin heatin g duct in front of the exit ramp would not effect cooling flow much. -S pent a day trying to troubleshoot, and he became convinced it was an instr umentation issue. -Kind of made sense, but I was skeptical. -He did fi nd one of the CHT probes had significant tip wear (they were well over 10 years old...)=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>After new probe installation, the monitor indic ated a 10 degree drop in CHTs, but still running well over 430 in cruise.. .=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Last weekend, I re-routed the heater duct away and around t he exit ramps. -A pain, but just took some time and extra materials. -Noticed an immediate improvement in cooling, but CHTs were still too hi gh for my liking.=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>I ordered a Mag-Rite timing tool kit from A TS. -Digital protractor and nylon cylinder probe to enable very precise location of actual TDC (as opposed to a mark on a ring and location on cas e.) -Can't say enough good things about this kit (worth every penny), ve ry easy to use, and the digital protractor has 1/10 degree resolution. - Re-timed my mags (I have a LASAR ignition) to specs. -To say the timing was 'off' is an understatement. -It was WAY off. -The smoothness of th e LASAR masked the issue well, and the motor put out good power.=0A>>=0A>> =0A>>Now that it is 'dialed in' to within a tenth of a degree of accuracy, the CHTs dropped over 20F.=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>So, I improved cooling air flow, and fixed my timing. -This is AFTER paying an IA for a complete annual, and coming back for-troubleshooting.=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>At the end of the day , the lesson I learned is after over 10 years of ownership, I will know wh en 33R is "dialed in" or not regardless of what an IA may believe even if he has been taking care of this aircraft for several years...=0A>>=0A>>Mar k=0A>>=0A>>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">htt p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List=0Ahref="http://forums.ma tronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com /contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>st href="http:// www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navi gator?TeamGrumman-List s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com=0Ap:// www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A_ -======================== ================ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:04:01 AM PST US From: Dan Schmitz Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling SSBlbXBsb3llZCBvbmUgb2YgdGhvc2UgZGlzZ3VzdGluZyBvd25lciB0ZWNobmlxdWVzLiAgSSB0 b2xkIG15IEEmUCB0byBmaXggaXQgdXAgYW5kIHdlbnQgaG9tZS4gIEkga25vdyBJIGxvb2tlZCBv dmVyIHRoZSBpbnN0YWxsYXRpb24gbGF0ZXIsIGJ1dCBkb27igJl0IHJlY2FsbCBub3cuDQoNClRo ZSBpY2luZyB0aG91Z2h0IG9jY3VycmVkIHRvIG1lIGFzIHdlbGwuICBCdXQgdGhlIG9sZCBzeXN0 ZW0gdXNlZCBhIGdyYXRlIGFuZCB0aGVyZeKAmXMgdGhlIGNhcmIgaGVhdCBwYXRoLiAgSXTigJlz IG5vdCBnb2luZyB0byBiZSB3b3JzZSB0aGFuIHRoZSBvcmlnaW5hbC4gIEnigJltIG1vcmUgYWZy YWlkIG9mIGhpZGRlbiBiaXJkcy4NCkRhbg0KDQpGcm9tOiBvd25lci10ZWFtZ3J1bW1hbi1saXN0 LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIFttYWlsdG86b3duZXItdGVhbWdydW1tYW4tbGlzdC1zZXJ2 ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbV0gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIEdhcnkgVm9ndA0KU2VudDogTW9uZGF5LCBB cHJpbCAyMywgMjAxMiAxOjE5IFBNDQpUbzogdGVhbWdydW1tYW4tbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29t DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogVGVhbUdydW1tYW4tTGlzdDogQ293bGluZw0KDQoiU28gbXkgYmFmZmxl cyBoYXZlIGEgZ3JhdGUgb3ZlciB0aGUgYWlyIGludGFrZSBob2xlLiINCg0KSSBhY3R1YWxseSBk aXNjdXNzZWQgdGhhdCB3aXRoIGEgREVSLiAgVGhlcmUgd2FzIGEgY29uY2VybiBvdmVyIGltcGFj dCBpY2UgYmxvY2tpbmcgdGhlIGhvbGUuICBJIGRpZG4ndCBidXkgaXQgYnV0IHdobyBhbSBJIHRv IGFyZ3VlLiAgTGVhdmluZyBpdCBvZmYgbWFkZSBpdCBzaW1wbGUuICBIb3cgZGlkIHlvdSBhdHRh Y2ggdGhlIHNjcmVlbj8gIFNlZW1zIHNpbXBsZSBlbm91Z2guDQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQpGcm9tOiBEYW4gU2NobWl0eiA8RGFuLlNjaG1pdHpAY2FsaXguY29t PG1haWx0bzpEYW4uU2NobWl0ekBjYWxpeC5jb20+Pg0KVG86ICJ0ZWFtZ3J1bW1hbi1saXN0QG1h dHJvbmljcy5jb208bWFpbHRvOnRlYW1ncnVtbWFuLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4iIDx0ZWFt Z3J1bW1hbi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb208bWFpbHRvOnRlYW1ncnVtbWFuLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9u aWNzLmNvbT4+DQpTZW50OiBNb25kYXksIEFwcmlsIDIzLCAyMDEyIDU6MDUgQU0NClN1YmplY3Q6 IFJFOiBUZWFtR3J1bW1hbi1MaXN0OiBDb3dsaW5nDQoNCkkgYmVsaWV2ZSBteSBlbmdpbmUgaXMg MC40IGRlZ3JlZXMgZG93biB0aHJ1c3QuICBJIHRob3VnaHQgdGhhdCB3YXMgaW4gdGhlIHRhcmdl dCByYW5nZS4gIEl0IG1hdGNoZWQgdGhlIG9sZCBjb3dsIHF1aXRlIG5pY2VseSBhbmQgdGhlIG5l dyBjb3dsLCB3aGVyZSB5b3UgaGFkIG1hcmtlZCBzb21lIGxpa2VseSBsaW5lcyBtYXRjaGVkIHVw IGFsbW9zdCBwZXJmZWN0bHkuICBJbiB0aGUgb25lIHBpY3R1cmUgd2hlcmUgdGhlIGVuZ2luZSBs b29rcyBoaWdoLCBpdCB3YXMgYSB2ZXJ5IGVhcmx5IHBpY3R1cmUuICBUaGUgY293bCB3YXMganVz dCByZXN0aW5nIG9uIHRoZSBlbmdpbmUgd2l0aG91dCBhbnkgaW50ZXJuYWwgc3VwcG9ydCBhdCB0 aGF0IHBvaW50LiAgSSBkb27DouKCrOKEonQgY3VycmVudGx5IGhhdmUgYW55IGJhZmZsZSBwaWN0 dXJlcy4gIEkgd2FudCB0byByZXBsYWNlIHRoZSBib3R0b20gIzQgc3BhcmsgcGx1ZyBzb29uLCBz byBob3BlZnVsbHkgScOi4oKs4oSibGwgcmVtZW1iZXIgdGhlbi4NCg0KT2gsIG9uZSBjaGFuZ2Ug SSBpbnNpc3RlZCBvbjogIFRoZSBvbGQgYWlyIGludGFrZSBhYm92ZSB0aGUgIzMgY3lsaW5kZXIg dXNlZCB0byBoYXZlIGEgZ3JhdGluZy4gIFRoZSBuZXcgYmFmZmxlcyBzaW1wbHkgaGFkIGFuIG9w ZW4gaG9sZS4gIEkgaGFkIHZpc2lvbnMgb2YgYSBiaXJkIHF1aWV0bHkgbmVzdGluZyBiYWNrIHRo ZXJlIGFuZCBtZSB0cnlpbmcgdG8gdGFrZSBvZmYgd2l0aCBhIGJpcmQgbmVzdCBjb3ZlcmluZyB0 aGUgYWlyIGZpbHRlci4gIFNvIG15IGJhZmZsZXMgaGF2ZSBhIGdyYXRlIG92ZXIgdGhlIGFpciBp bnRha2UgaG9sZS4NCg0KRGFuDQo ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:03:48 PM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling From: Gary WWVhLCBiaXJkcyBjYW4gYmUgYSBwYWluIGluIHRoZSBhc3MuIA0KDQpTZW50IGZyb20gbXkgaVBo b25lDQoNCk9uIEFwciAyMywgMjAxMiwgYXQgMTE6MDEgQU0sIERhbiBTY2htaXR6IDxEYW4uU2No bWl0ekBjYWxpeC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KDQo+IEkgZW1wbG95ZWQgb25lIG9mIHRob3NlIGRpc2d1 c3Rpbmcgb3duZXIgdGVjaG5pcXVlcy4gIEkgdG9sZCBteSBBJlAgdG8gZml4IGl0IHVwIGFuZCB3 ZW50IGhvbWUuICBJIGtub3cgSSBsb29rZWQgb3ZlciB0aGUgaW5zdGFsbGF0aW9uIGxhdGVyLCBi dXQgZG9u4oCZdCByZWNhbGwgbm93Lg0KPiAgDQo+IFRoZSBpY2luZyB0aG91Z2h0IG9jY3VycmVk IHRvIG1lIGFzIHdlbGwuICBCdXQgdGhlIG9sZCBzeXN0ZW0gdXNlZCBhIGdyYXRlIGFuZCB0aGVy ZeKAmXMgdGhlIGNhcmIgaGVhdCBwYXRoLiAgSXTigJlzIG5vdCBnb2luZyB0byBiZSB3b3JzZSB0 aGFuIHRoZSBvcmlnaW5hbC4gIEnigJltIG1vcmUgYWZyYWlkIG9mIGhpZGRlbiBiaXJkcy4NCj4g RGFuDQo+ICANCj4gRnJvbTogb3duZXItdGVhbWdydW1tYW4tbGlzdC1zZXJ2ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNz LmNvbSBbbWFpbHRvOm93bmVyLXRlYW1ncnVtbWFuLWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb21d IE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBHYXJ5IFZvZ3QNCj4gU2VudDogTW9uZGF5LCBBcHJpbCAyMywgMjAxMiAx OjE5IFBNDQo+IFRvOiB0ZWFtZ3J1bW1hbi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NCj4gU3ViamVjdDog UmU6IFRlYW1HcnVtbWFuLUxpc3Q6IENvd2xpbmcNCj4gIA0KPiAiU28gbXkgYmFmZmxlcyBoYXZl IGEgZ3JhdGUgb3ZlciB0aGUgYWlyIGludGFrZSBob2xlLiINCj4gIA0KPiBJIGFjdHVhbGx5IGRp c2N1c3NlZCB0aGF0IHdpdGggYSBERVIuICBUaGVyZSB3YXMgYSBjb25jZXJuIG92ZXIgaW1wYWN0 IGljZSBibG9ja2luZyB0aGUgaG9sZS4gIEkgZGlkbid0IGJ1eSBpdCBidXQgd2hvIGFtIEkgdG8g YXJndWUuICBMZWF2aW5nIGl0IG9mZiBtYWRlIGl0IHNpbXBsZS4gIEhvdyBkaWQgeW91IGF0dGFj aCB0aGUgc2NyZWVuPyAgU2VlbXMgc2ltcGxlIGVub3VnaC4NCj4gIA0KPiBGcm9tOiBEYW4gU2No bWl0eiA8RGFuLlNjaG1pdHpAY2FsaXguY29tPg0KPiBUbzogInRlYW1ncnVtbWFuLWxpc3RAbWF0 cm9uaWNzLmNvbSIgPHRlYW1ncnVtbWFuLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4gDQo+IFNlbnQ6IE1v bmRheSwgQXByaWwgMjMsIDIwMTIgNTowNSBBTQ0KPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBSRTogVGVhbUdydW1tYW4t TGlzdDogQ293bGluZw0KPiAgDQo+IEkgYmVsaWV2ZSBteSBlbmdpbmUgaXMgMC40IGRlZ3JlZXMg ZG93biB0aHJ1c3QuICBJIHRob3VnaHQgdGhhdCB3YXMgaW4gdGhlIHRhcmdldCByYW5nZS4gIEl0 IG1hdGNoZWQgdGhlIG9sZCBjb3dsIHF1aXRlIG5pY2VseSBhbmQgdGhlIG5ldyBjb3dsLCB3aGVy ZSB5b3UgaGFkIG1hcmtlZCBzb21lIGxpa2VseSBsaW5lcyBtYXRjaGVkIHVwIGFsbW9zdCBwZXJm ZWN0bHkuICBJbiB0aGUgb25lIHBpY3R1cmUgd2hlcmUgdGhlIGVuZ2luZSBsb29rcyBoaWdoLCBp dCB3YXMgYSB2ZXJ5IGVhcmx5IHBpY3R1cmUuICBUaGUgY293bCB3YXMganVzdCByZXN0aW5nIG9u IHRoZSBlbmdpbmUgd2l0aG91dCBhbnkgaW50ZXJuYWwgc3VwcG9ydCBhdCB0aGF0IHBvaW50LiAg SSBkb27DouKCrOKEonQgY3VycmVudGx5IGhhdmUgYW55IGJhZmZsZSBwaWN0dXJlcy4gIEkgd2Fu dCB0byByZXBsYWNlIHRoZSBib3R0b20gIzQgc3BhcmsgcGx1ZyBzb29uLCBzbyBob3BlZnVsbHkg ScOi4oKs4oSibGwgcmVtZW1iZXIgdGhlbi4NCj4gIA0KPiBPaCwgb25lIGNoYW5nZSBJIGluc2lz dGVkIG9uOiAgVGhlIG9sZCBhaXIgaW50YWtlIGFib3ZlIHRoZSAjMyBjeWxpbmRlciB1c2VkIHRv IGhhdmUgYSBncmF0aW5nLiAgVGhlIG5ldyBiYWZmbGVzIHNpbXBseSBoYWQgYW4gb3BlbiBob2xl LiAgSSBoYWQgdmlzaW9ucyBvZiBhIGJpcmQgcXVpZXRseSBuZXN0aW5nIGJhY2sgdGhlcmUgYW5k IG1lIHRyeWluZyB0byB0YWtlIG9mZiB3aXRoIGEgYmlyZCBuZXN0IGNvdmVyaW5nIHRoZSBhaXIg ZmlsdGVyLiAgU28gbXkgYmFmZmxlcyBoYXZlIGEgZ3JhdGUgb3ZlciB0aGUgYWlyIGludGFrZSBo b2xlLg0KPiAgDQo+IERhbg0KPiAp77+977+936J7bO+/vTfvv71y77+9aO+/vU0077+9TR9px5zv v73vv73vv71677+977+977+977+9Lu+/vSfvv71OF++/vXnvv73vv73vv73vv71qcu+/ve+/vSZq KUXvv73vv73vv71Sx63vv73vv70a77+977+9J++/ve+/vQvvv73vv71Fee+/vW7vv73vv70gau+/ vWrvv70r77+977+977+9Cx7vv70X77+9anzvv73vv73vv71u77+9KWLvv70n77+977+977+9IWrv v73vv73vv70n77+9K++/ve+/ve+/ve+/vdio77+9INyGK++/vUnvv71yEO+/ve+/vXloae+/ve+/ vWsga++/vQseIBbvv70UBA/vv73vv71o77+9Fu+/vXnvv73dmu+/vSHvv73vv70h77+977+977+9 ahrvv71+G23vv73vv73vv73vv70J77+977+977+9J++/ve+/vRzvv71v77+9au+/vWrvv70rTe+/ vRrvv73vv73vv73vv73Liu+/vWHvv73vv71/77+9DDDvv73vv71r77+9eO+/ve+/ve+/vSbvv73W r++/vQbvv73vv73vv73vv71qYe+/ve+/vWnvv73vv73vv73vv73vv73vv70BNE4077+977+9WEBF ORUMSSbvv716IO+/vWrvv70o77+916fvv73vv71s77+977+92opW77+977+977+977+9au+/vV5Z 77+9xaLvv73vv73vv73vv71ree+/vW3vv73vv73vv71+77+977+9yZrvv73vv70n77+977+9HO+/ vWht77+977+977+9fu+/ve+/vcma77+977+9J++/ve+/vRzvv71v77+9ListIO+/ve+/vSbvv70q J1nvv73SiteT77+977+977+9yovvv73vv73vv73vv73vv73vv70e77+977+977+977+9Lu+/ve+/ vSvvv73Gre+/vTrallfvv73vv73vv71Admjvv71qGu+/vX4bbe+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vQnvv73vv73v v70n77+977+9HO+/vW/contr77+977+977+977+977+977+977+9f++/vQww77+977+9a++/vXjv v73vv73vv70m77+977+9J++/ve+/ve+/ve+/vdio77+977+9b++/ve+/ve+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vUzv v73vv71NEg8477+9RDzvv70scu+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vRzvv71n77+977+9IO+/veimgwjvv73vv70d YXooIe+/vVsrchtt77+977+977+9eu+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vRzvv71v77+977+9eO+/vV0027t177+9 zrfbne+/ve+/vcyidj40c++/vWRx77+9He+/vUgid23vv73TvnXvv73vv70r77+977+9Z++/ve+/ vSvvv73vv71i77+9DCJ277+9de+/veighu+/vWzvv73vv71t77+977+977+977+977+9MmoaKHLv v73vv73vv73vv71577+9TXTvv71u77+977+9fzrvv71ud9OLMu+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vc6h77+977+9 NHbvv70g77+93bbvv71O77+977+977+977+977+977+977+9HO+/vSpt77+9Kl7vv73vv71t77+9 Nu+/vWrvv70r77+977+9bO+/ve+/vW3vv73vv73vv713KO+/ve+/ve+/vSbvv71o77+977+9Bu+/ ve+/ve+/vRzvv70qbe+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vXLvv73vv71e77+977+977+9au+/vXLvv73vv73vv73v v71hYBPvv73vv70keu+/vRYCB++/vU7vv73vv73vv73vv73vv73vv71NNe+/vV5677+9Xu+/vdmF 77+9Tu+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vey5ue+/ve+/ve+/vRzvv70qbe+/ve+/vRzvv70qbXYr77+9CytyG23v v73vv73vv71qdu+/ve+/vdic77+9Ju+/ve+/ve+/vSjvv73vv71p77+977+9dO+/vU16157vv73X ru+/ve+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vSdt77+9WF7vv70IbdWpbe+/ve+/vWLvv73vv73vv73vv73vv73vv71i 77+977+9cu+/vemargjvv73vv71Kce+/vW0p77+977+9Xmrvv73vv70cHm5I77+977+977+9be+/ vSzvv71p77+977+977+977+977+977+9CO+/ve+/vR500pxtae+/vV7vv73cpXsI77+977+9HXTR uit177+977+9Gyjvv70nQggm77+9ckgr77+977+977+9cu+/vWjvv71RRe+/ve+/ve+/ve+/ve+/ vder77+977+9Yu+/ve+/vWnvv73Hpe+/ve+/vVpyKe+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vXbvv71y77+977+977+9 ckgr77+977+977+9cu+/vWjvv71dBe+/vV0pae+/vWLvv70OacW7Le+/vVfvv73vv717bO+/vTfv v73Xme+/ve+/vQjvv73vv71Oae+/ve+/vSXvv73vv70077+9M++/vQHvv73biu+/vXLvv73vv73v v73vv70i77+977+9dO+/vWbvv73vv70p77+9Be+/vVrvv70m77+9KV5y77+9aO+/ve+/vXTvv73v v71b77+9WX9u77+9cu+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vSLvv73vv71077+977+977+9fQ/vv70H77+9ee+/ve+/ vWHvv71o77+977+9Le+/vVfvv73vv717bO+/vTfvv73vv71HKO+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vUnvv73vv70I 77+977+9TmnFqGt577+9be+/ve+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vWt3Ju+/ve+/ve+/vSjvv73vv71xfe+/vQzv v73Fje+/ve+/ve+/vdGo77+9EX1MDO+/ve+/ve+/ve+/ve+/ve+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vRHvv73vv70g 77+977+977+977+977+977+977+977+977+977+9Ee+/veWlkCDvv73vv73vv73Zoe+/ve+/ve+/ ve+/ve+/vRtdbHPvv73vv70P77+977+9dwPvv73vv71y77+977+977+9Ju+/ve+/ve+/vSjvv73v v71hecar77+977+9J3Xvv73vv717bz3vv71877+9G2bvv73vv71y77+977+9KO+/ve+/ve+/ve+/ vX87CBli77+977+9Hu+/ve+/veymim7vv70p3Lrvv73vv73vv73vv73vv71177+9P2nvv73vv73v v73vv70t77+9V++/ve+/vXts77+9N++/ve+/vWbvv73vv70p77+9ahrvv71+G23vv73vv73vv73v v70yahoocu+/ve+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vWnMv++/ve+/ve+/vWoaKO+/vQfvv71t5pyiez9177+9Wu+/ vVsh77+9aWzvv70pXnLvv71o77+9Xu+/vfOwn6J7bO+/vTfvv73vv73vv73ivacyPu+/vWJzL++/ vW7vv73vv70gQyhuKV5u77+9Hu+/vderfu+/ve+/ve+/vWHvv73vv70e77+977+9Le+/ve+/ve+/ ve+/vX/vv73Hmu+/ve+/vXJqGihy77+977+977+977+9chjvv73vv73vv71typfvv71577+93IZ2 77+9eu+/vWVpx6Hvv71XXu+/vSfvv73vv73vv71t77+977+9bu+/vXLvv73vv70idu+/vXXvv71H 77+977+9Iu+/ve+/vXTvv73ooIbvv73vv70Z77+977+9CO+/ve+/vXTanFzvv73vv71u77+9Ye+/ ve+/ve+/ve+/vV7vv73vv70i77+95p2O77+9Le+/ve+/vd6Z77+9cO+/ve+/vWHvv71NKe+/ve+/ ve+/vW3Kl++/ve+/ve+/vV7vv73vv73vv71q77+9K3IZ2pnvv73vv716bu+/vdypehjvv71177+9 77+9alvvv73vv71m77+977+977+9Ie+/ve+/ve+/ve+/ve+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vSvvv73vv70e77+9 16t6d2J/77+9f++/ve+/ve+/ve+/vVpuV++/vXYr77+9XHTvv70tJO+/vSDvv71EQ++/vWPvv73v v713L++/vWkNCg= ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:26:28 PM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling From: FLYaDIVE WXVwLCBJIGFncmVlIHdpdGggR2FyeS4KVGhlIG9ubHkgdGhpbmcgdGhlIERBUiBzaG91bGQgc2F5 IGlzIHRoYXQgdGhlIHNjcmVlbiBzaG91bGQgaGF2ZSB0aGUgc2FtZQpob2xlIHBhdHRlcm4gYW5k IHNpemUgYXMgdGhlIG9yaWdpbmFsLgoKQmFycnkKCgpPbiBNb24sIEFwciAyMywgMjAxMiBhdCAz OjAzIFBNLCBHYXJ5IDx0ZWFtZ3J1bW1hbkB5YWhvby5jb20+IHdyb3RlOgoKPiBZZWEsIGJpcmRz IGNhbiBiZSBhIHBhaW4gaW4gdGhlIGFzcy4KPgo+IFNlbnQgZnJvbSBteSBpUGhvbmUKPgo+IE9u IEFwciAyMywgMjAxMiwgYXQgMTE6MDEgQU0sIERhbiBTY2htaXR6IDxEYW4uU2NobWl0ekBjYWxp eC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOgo+Cj4gIEkgZW1wbG95ZWQgb25lIG9mIHRob3NlIGRpc2d1c3Rpbmcgb3du ZXIgdGVjaG5pcXVlcy4gIEkgdG9sZCBteSBBJlAgdG8KPiBmaXggaXQgdXAgYW5kIHdlbnQgaG9t ZS4gIEkga25vdyBJIGxvb2tlZCBvdmVyIHRoZSBpbnN0YWxsYXRpb24gbGF0ZXIsIGJ1dAo+IGRv buKAmXQgcmVjYWxsIG5vdy4qKioqCj4KPiAqKiAqKgo+Cj4gVGhlIGljaW5nIHRob3VnaHQgb2Nj dXJyZWQgdG8gbWUgYXMgd2VsbC4gIEJ1dCB0aGUgb2xkIHN5c3RlbSB1c2VkIGEgZ3JhdGUKPiBh bmQgdGhlcmXigJlzIHRoZSBjYXJiIGhlYXQgcGF0aC4gIEl04oCZcyBub3QgZ29pbmcgdG8gYmUg d29yc2UgdGhhbiB0aGUKPiBvcmlnaW5hbC4gIEnigJltIG1vcmUgYWZyYWlkIG9mIGhpZGRlbiBi aXJkcy4qKioqCj4KPiAqKioqCj4KPiBEYW4qKioqCj4KPiAqKiAqKgo+Cj4gKkZyb206KiBvd25l ci10ZWFtZ3J1bW1hbi1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIFttYWlsdG86Cj4gb3duZXIt dGVhbWdydW1tYW4tbGlzdC1zZXJ2ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbV0gKk9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiAqR2Fy eSBWb2d0Cj4gKlNlbnQ6KiBNb25kYXksIEFwcmlsIDIzLCAyMDEyIDE6MTkgUE0KPiAqVG86KiB0 ZWFtZ3J1bW1hbi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20KPiAqU3ViamVjdDoqIFJlOiBUZWFtR3J1bW1h bi1MaXN0OiBDb3dsaW5nKioqKgo+Cj4gKiogKioKPgo+ICJTbyBteSBiYWZmbGVzIGhhdmUgYSBn cmF0ZSBvdmVyIHRoZSBhaXIgaW50YWtlIGhvbGUuIioqKioKPgo+ICoqICoqCj4KPiBJIGFjdHVh bGx5IGRpc2N1c3NlZCB0aGF0IHdpdGggYSBERVIuICBUaGVyZSB3YXMgYSBjb25jZXJuIG92ZXIg aW1wYWN0IGljZQo+IGJsb2NraW5nIHRoZSBob2xlLiAgSSBkaWRuJ3QgYnV5IGl0IGJ1dCB3aG8g YW0gSSB0byBhcmd1ZS4gIExlYXZpbmcgaXQgb2ZmCj4gbWFkZSBpdCBzaW1wbGUuICBIb3cgZGlk IHlvdSBhdHRhY2ggdGhlIHNjcmVlbj8gIFNlZW1zIHNpbXBsZSBlbm91Z2guKioqKgo+Cj4gKiog KioKPiAgICAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0KPgo+ICpGcm9tOiogRGFuIFNj aG1pdHogPERhbi5TY2htaXR6QGNhbGl4LmNvbT4KPiAqVG86KiAidGVhbWdydW1tYW4tbGlzdEBt YXRyb25pY3MuY29tIiA8dGVhbWdydW1tYW4tbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPgo+ICpTZW50Oiog TW9uZGF5LCBBcHJpbCAyMywgMjAxMiA1OjA1IEFNCj4gKlN1YmplY3Q6KiBSRTogVGVhbUdydW1t YW4tTGlzdDogQ293bGluZyoqKioKPgo+ICoqICoqCj4KPiBJIGJlbGlldmUgbXkgZW5naW5lIGlz IDAuNCBkZWdyZWVzIGRvd24gdGhydXN0LiAgSSB0aG91Z2h0IHRoYXQgd2FzIGluIHRoZQo+IHRh cmdldCByYW5nZS4gIEl0IG1hdGNoZWQgdGhlIG9sZCBjb3dsIHF1aXRlIG5pY2VseSBhbmQgdGhl IG5ldyBjb3dsLCB3aGVyZQo+IHlvdSBoYWQgbWFya2VkIHNvbWUgbGlrZWx5IGxpbmVzIG1hdGNo ZWQgdXAgYWxtb3N0IHBlcmZlY3RseS4gIEluIHRoZSBvbmUKPiBwaWN0dXJlIHdoZXJlIHRoZSBl bmdpbmUgbG9va3MgaGlnaCwgaXQgd2FzIGEgdmVyeSBlYXJseSBwaWN0dXJlLiAgVGhlIGNvd2wK PiB3YXMganVzdCByZXN0aW5nIG9uIHRoZSBlbmdpbmUgd2l0aG91dCBhbnkgaW50ZXJuYWwgc3Vw cG9ydCBhdCB0aGF0IHBvaW50Lgo+IEkgZG9uw6LigqzihKJ0IGN1cnJlbnRseSBoYXZlIGFueSBi YWZmbGUgcGljdHVyZXMuICBJIHdhbnQgdG8gcmVwbGFjZSB0aGUgYm90dG9tCj4gIzQgc3Bhcmsg cGx1ZyBzb29uLCBzbyBob3BlZnVsbHkgScOi4oKs4oSibGwgcmVtZW1iZXIgdGhlbi4qKioqCj4K PiAgKioqKgo+Cj4gT2gsIG9uZSBjaGFuZ2UgSSBpbnNpc3RlZCBvbjogIFRoZSBvbGQgYWlyIGlu dGFrZSBhYm92ZSB0aGUgIzMgY3lsaW5kZXIKPiB1c2VkIHRvIGhhdmUgYSBncmF0aW5nLiAgVGhl IG5ldyBiYWZmbGVzIHNpbXBseSBoYWQgYW4gb3BlbiBob2xlLiAgSSBoYWQKPiB2aXNpb25zIG9m IGEgYmlyZCBxdWlldGx5IG5lc3RpbmcgYmFjayB0aGVyZSBhbmQgbWUgdHJ5aW5nIHRvIHRha2Ug b2ZmIHdpdGgKPiBhIGJpcmQgbmVzdCBjb3ZlcmluZyB0aGUgYWlyIGZpbHRlci4gIFNvIG15IGJh ZmZsZXMgaGF2ZSBhIGdyYXRlIG92ZXIgdGhlCj4gYWlyIGludGFrZSBob2xlLioqKioKPgo+ICAq KioqCj4KPiBEYW4qKioqCj4gICAgICnvv73vv73fonts77+9N++/vXLvv71o77+9TTTvv71NIGnH nO+/ve+/ve+/vXrvv73vv73vv73vv70u77+9J++/vU4g77+9ee+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vWpy77+977+9 JmopRe+/ve+/ve+/vVLHre+/ve+/vSDvv73vv70n77+977+9Cj4g77+977+9RXnvv71u77+977+9 IGrvv71q77+9K++/ve+/ve+/vSDvv70g77+9anzvv73vv73vv71u77+9KWLvv70n77+977+977+9 IWrvv73vv73vv70n77+9K++/ve+/ve+/ve+/vdio77+9INyGK++/vUnvv71yIO+/ve+/vXloae+/ ve+/vWsga++/vSDvv70g77+977+9aO+/vQo+IO+/vXnvv73dmu+/vSHvv73vv70h77+977+977+9 aiDvv71+IG3vv73vv73vv73vv70g77+977+977+9J++/ve+/vSDvv71v77+9au+/vWrvv70rTe+/ vSDvv73vv73vv73vv73Liu+/vWHvv73vv70g77+9IDDvv73vv71r77+9eO+/ve+/ve+/vSbvv73W r++/vQo+IO+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vWph77+977+9ae+/ve+/ve+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vSA0TjTvv73vv71Y QEU5IEkm77+9ego+IO+/vWrvv70o77+916fvv73vv71s77+977+92opW77+977+977+977+9au+/ vV5Z77+9xaLvv73vv73vv73vv71ree+/vW3vv73vv73vv71+77+977+9yZrvv73vv70n77+977+9 IO+/vWht77+977+977+9fu+/ve+/vcma77+977+9J++/ve+/vSDvv71v77+9ListCj4g77+977+9 Ju+/vSonWe+/vdKK15Pvv73vv73vv73Ki++/ve+/ve+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vSDvv73vv73vv73vv70u 77+977+9K++/vcat77+9OtqWV++/ve+/ve+/vUB2aO+/vWog77+9fiBt77+977+977+977+9IO+/ ve+/ve+/vSfvv73vv70g77+9b9yie2vvv73vv73vv73vv73vv73vv73vv70g77+9Cj4gMO+/ve+/ vWvvv71477+977+977+9Ju+/ve+/vSfvv73vv73vv73vv73YqO+/ve+/vW/vv73vv73vv73vv73v v73vv71M77+977+9TSA477+9RDzvv70scu+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vSDvv71n77+977+9IO+/veimgyDv v73vv70gYXooIe+/vVsrciBt77+977+977+9eu+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vQo+IO+/vW/vv73vv71477+9 XTTbu3Xvv73Ot9ud77+977+9zKJ2PjRz77+9ZHHvv70g77+9SCJ3be+/vdO+de+/ve+/vSvvv73v v71n77+977+9K++/ve+/vWLvv70gInbvv71177+96KCG77+9bO+/ve+/vW3vv73vv73vv73vv73v v70yago+IChy77+977+977+977+9ee+/vU1077+9bu+/ve+/vSA677+9bnfTizLvv73vv73vv73v v73Ooe+/ve+/vTR277+9IO+/vd2277+9Tu+/ve+/ve+/ve+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vQo+IO+/vSpt77+9 Kl7vv73vv71t77+9Nu+/vWrvv70r77+977+9bO+/ve+/vW3vv73vv73vv713KO+/ve+/ve+/vSbv v71o77+977+9IO+/ve+/ve+/vSDvv70qbe+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vXLvv73vv71e77+977+977+9au+/ vXLvv73vv73vv73vv71hYCDvv73vv70keu+/vQo+IO+/vU7vv73vv73vv73vv73vv73vv71NNe+/ vV5677+9Xu+/vdmF77+9Tu+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vey5ue+/ve+/ve+/vSDvv70qbe+/ve+/vSDvv70q bXYr77+9ICtyCj4gbe+/ve+/ve+/vWp277+977+92Jzvv70m77+977+977+9KO+/ve+/vWnvv73v v71077+9TXrXnu+/vdeu77+977+977+977+977+9J23vv71YXu+/vSBt1alt77+977+9Yu+/ve+/ ve+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vWLvv73vv71y77+96ZquIO+/ve+/vUpx77+9bSnvv73vv71eau+/ve+/vQo+ IG5I77+977+977+9be+/vSzvv71p77+977+977+977+977+977+9IO+/ve+/vSB00pxtae+/vV7v v73cpXsg77+977+9IHTRuit177+977+9ICjvv70nQgo+ICbvv71ySCvvv73vv73vv71y77+9aO+/ vVFF77+977+977+977+977+916vvv73vv71i77+977+9ae+/vcel77+977+9WnIp77+977+977+9 77+9du+/vXLvv73vv73vv71ySCvvv73vv73vv71y77+9aO+/vV0g77+9XSlp77+9Yu+/vQo+IGnF uy3vv71X77+977+9e2zvv70377+915nvv73vv70g77+977+9Tmnvv73vv70l77+977+9NO+/vTPv v70g77+924rvv71y77+977+977+977+9Iu+/ve+/vXTvv71m77+977+9Ke+/vSDvv71a77+9Ju+/ vSlecu+/vWjvv73vv71077+977+9W++/vVkKPiBu77+9cu+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vSLvv73vv71077+9 77+977+9fSDvv70g77+9ee+/ve+/vWHvv71o77+977+9Le+/vVfvv73vv717bO+/vTfvv73vv71H KO+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vUnvv73vv70g77+977+9TmnFqGt577+9be+/ve+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vWt3Ju+/ ve+/ve+/vSjvv73vv71xfe+/vQo+IO+/vcWN77+977+977+90ajvv70gfUwg77+977+977+977+9 77+977+977+977+977+9IO+/ve+/vSDvv73vv73vv73vv73vv73vv73vv73vv73vv73vv70g77+9 5aWQIO+/ve+/ve+/vdmh77+977+977+977+977+9IF1sc++/ve+/vSDvv73vv713Cj4g77+977+9 cu+/ve+/ve+/vSbvv73vv73vv70o77+977+9YXnGq++/ve+/vSd177+977+9e28977+9fO+/vSBm 77+977+9cu+/ve+/vSjvv73vv73vv73vv70gOyBi77+977+9Cj4g77+977+97KaKbu+/vSncuu+/ ve+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vXXvv70/ae+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vS3vv71X77+977+9e2zvv70377+977+9Zu+/ ve+/vSnvv71qIO+/vX4gbe+/ve+/ve+/ve+/vTJqIChy77+977+977+977+977+9acy/77+977+9 77+9aiAo77+9Cj4g77+9beacons/de+/vVrvv71bIe+/vWls77+9KV5y77+9aO+/vV7vv73zsJ+i e2zvv70377+977+977+94r2nMj7vv71icy/vv71u77+977+9IEMobilebu+/vSDvv73Xq37vv73v v73vv71h77+977+9IO+/ve+/vS3vv73vv73vv73vv70KPiDvv73Hmu+/ve+/vXJqIChy77+977+9 77+977+9ciDvv73vv73vv71typfvv71577+93IZ277+9eu+/vWVpx6Hvv71XXu+/vSfvv73vv73v v71t77+977+9bu+/vXLvv73vv70idu+/vXXvv71H77+977+9Iu+/ve+/vXTvv73ooIbvv73vv70g 77+977+9Cj4g77+977+9dNqcXO+/ve+/vW7vv71h77+977+977+977+9Xu+/ve+/vSLvv73mnY7v v70t77+977+93pnvv71w77+977+9Ye+/vU0p77+977+977+9bcqX77+977+977+9Xu+/ve+/ve+/ vWrvv70rciDame+/ve+/vXpu77+93Kl6Cj4g77+9de+/ve+/vWpb77+977+9Zu+/ve+/ve+/vSHv v73vv73vv73vv73vv73vv73vv73vv70r77+977+9IO+/vderendiIO+/vSDvv73vv73vv73vv71a blfvv712K++/vVx077+9LSTvv70g77+9REPvv71j77+977+9dy/vv71pCj4KPiAqCj4KPiBfLT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PQo+IF8tPSAgICAgICAgICAtIFRoZSBUZWFtR3J1bW1hbi1MaXN0IEVtYWlsIEZvcnVtIC0KPiBf LT0gVXNlIHRoZSBNYXRyb25pY3MgTGlzdCBGZWF0dXJlcyBOYXZpZ2F0b3IgdG8gYnJvd3NlCj4g Xy09IHRoZSBtYW55IExpc3QgdXRpbGl0aWVzIHN1Y2ggYXMgTGlzdCBVbi9TdWJzY3JpcHRpb24s Cj4gXy09IEFyY2hpdmUgU2VhcmNoICYgRG93bmxvYWQsIDctRGF5IEJyb3dzZSwgQ2hhdCwgRkFR LAo+IF8tPSBQaG90b3NoYXJlLCBhbmQgbXVjaCBtdWNoIG1vcmU6Cj4gXy09Cj4gXy09ICAgLS0+ IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9OYXZpZ2F0b3I/VGVhbUdydW1tYW4tTGlzdAo+IF8t PQo+IF8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09Cj4gXy09ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLSBNQVRST05JQ1MgV0VCIEZPUlVNUyAtCj4g Xy09IFNhbWUgZ3JlYXQgY29udGVudCBhbHNvIGF2YWlsYWJsZSB2aWEgdGhlIFdlYiBGb3J1bXMh Cj4gXy09Cj4gXy09ICAgLS0+IGh0dHA6Ly9mb3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQo+IF8tPQo+IF8t PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09Cj4gXy09ICAgICAgICAgICAgIC0gTGlzdCBDb250cmlidXRpb24gV2ViIFNpdGUgLQo+IF8t PSAgVGhhbmsgeW91IGZvciB5b3VyIGdlbmVyb3VzIHN1cHBvcnQhCj4gXy09ICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLU1hdHQgRHJhbGxlLCBMaXN0IEFkbWluLgo+IF8tPSAgIC0tPiBo dHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vY29udHJpYnV0aW9uCj4gXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0KPiAqCj4KPgo ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:45:16 PM PST US From: "923te" <923te@att.net> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Also, shop rags or papertowels forgotten and left behind. My friends Commanche has a similar induction for air and we found a rag plugging it up one day.... ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 2:03 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Yea, birds can be a pain in the ass. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 23, 2012, at 11:01 AM, Dan Schmitz wrote: I employed one of those disgusting owner techniques. I told my A&P to fix it up and went home. I know I looked over the installation later, but don=99t recall now. The icing thought occurred to me as well. But the old system used a grate and there=99s the carb heat path. It=99s not going to be worse than the original. I=99m more afraid of hidden birds. Dan From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Vogt Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 1:19 PM To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling "So my baffles have a grate over the air intake hole." I actually discussed that with a DER. There was a concern over impact ice blocking the hole. I didn't buy it but who am I to argue. Leaving it off made it simple. How did you attach the screen? Seems simple enough. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: Dan Schmitz To: "teamgrumman-list@matronics.com" Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 5:05 AM Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling I believe my engine is 0.4 degrees down thrust. I thought that was in the target range. It matched the old cowl quite nicely and the new cowl, where you had marked some likely lines matched up almost perfectly. In the one picture where the engine looks high, it was a very early picture. The cowl was just resting on the engine without any internal support at that point. I don=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t currently have any baffle pictures. I want to replace the bottom #4 spark plug soon, so hopefully I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2ll remember then. Oh, one change I insisted on: The old air intake above the #3 cylinder used to have a grating. The new baffles simply had an open hole. I had visions of a bird quietly nesting back there and me trying to take off with a bird nest covering the air filter. So my baffles have a grate over the air intake hole. Dan )=EF=BD=EF=BD=DF=A2{l=EF=BD7=EF=BDr=EF=BDh=EF=BDM4=EF =BDM=1Fi=C7=9C=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDz=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF =BD.=EF=BD'=EF=BDN=17=EF=BDy=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD jr=EF=BD=EF=BD&j)E=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDR=C7=AD=EF=BD=EF =BD=1A=EF=BD=EF=BD'=EF=BD=EF=BD =EF=BD=EF=BDEy=EF=BDn=EF=BD=EF=BD j=EF=BDj=EF=BD+=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD =1E=EF=BD=17=EF=BDj|=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDn=EF=BD)b=EF=BD '=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD!j=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD'=EF=BD+=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=D8=A8=EF=BD =DC=86+=EF=BDI=EF=BDr=10=EF=BD=EF=BDyhi=EF=BD=EF=BDk k=EF=BD =1E =16=EF=BD=14=04=0F=EF=BD=EF=BDh=EF=BD=16=EF=BDy=EF=BD=DD =9A=EF=BD!=EF=BD=EF=BD!=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDj=1A=EF=BD~ =1Bm=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD =EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD'=EF=BD=EF=BD=1C=EF=BDo=EF=BDj=EF =BDj=EF=BD+M=EF=BD=1A=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=CB=8A=EF =BDa=EF=BD=EF=BD=7F=EF=BD 0=EF=BD=EF=BDk=EF=BDx=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD&=EF=BD=D6=AF =EF=BD=06=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDja=EF=BD=EF=BDi=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=014N4=EF=BD=EF=BDX @E9=15 I&=EF=BDz =EF=BDj=EF=BD(=EF=BD=D7=A7=EF=BD=EF=BDl=EF=BD=EF=BD=DA =8AV=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDj=EF=BD^Y=EF=BD=C5=A2=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDky=EF=BDm=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD~=EF =BD=EF=BD=C9=9A=EF=BD=EF=BD'=EF=BD=EF=BD=1C=EF=BDhm=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD~=EF=BD=EF=BD=C9=9A=EF=BD=EF=BD'=EF =BD=EF=BD=1C=EF=BDo=EF=BD.+- =EF=BD=EF=BD&=EF=BD*'Y=EF=BD=D2=8A=D7=93=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF =BD=CA=8B=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=1E=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD.=EF=BD=EF=BD+=EF=BD=C6=AD=EF=BD :=DA'W=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD@vh=EF=BDj=1A=EF=BD~=1Bm=EF=BD =EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD =EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD'=EF=BD=EF=BD=1C=EF=BDo=DC=A2{k=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=7F=EF=BD 0=EF=BD=EF=BDk=EF=BDx=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD&=EF=BD=EF =BD'=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=D8=A8=EF=BD=EF=BDo=EF=BD =EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDL=EF=BD=EF=BDM=12=0F8=EF =BDD<=EF=BD,r=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=1C=EF=BDg=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=E8=83=08=EF=BD=EF=BD=1Daz(!=EF=BD[+r=1B m=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDz=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=1C=EF =BDo=EF=BD=EF=BDx=EF=BD]4=DB=BBu=EF=BD=CE=B7=DB=9D=EF=BD=EF =BD=CC=A2v>4s=EF=BDdq=EF=BD=1D=EF=BDH"wm=EF=BD=D3=BEu=EF =BD=EF=BD+=EF=BD=EF=BDg=EF=BD=EF=BD+=EF=BD=EF=BDb=EF =BD "v=EF=BDu=EF=BD=E8-=86=EF=BDl=EF=BD=EF=BDm=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD2j=1A(r=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD y=EF=BDMt=EF=BDn=EF=BD=EF=BD=7F:=EF=BDnw=D3=8B2=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=CE=A1=EF=BD=EF=BD4v=EF=BD =EF=BD=DD=B6=EF=BDN=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BD=1C=EF=BD*m=EF=BD*^=EF=BD=EF=BDm=EF=BD6=EF =BDj=EF=BD+=EF=BD=EF=BDl=EF=BD=EF=BDm=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF =BDw(=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD&=EF=BDh=EF=BD=EF=BD=06=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=1C=EF=BD*m=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDr=EF =BD=EF=BD^=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDj=EF=BDr=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BDa`=13=EF=BD=EF=BD$z=EF=BD=16=02=07=EF=BDN=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDM5=EF=BD^z=EF=BD^=EF =BD=D9=85=EF=BDN=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EC=B9=B9=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=1C=EF=BD*m=EF=BD=EF=BD=1C=EF=BD*mv+=EF =BD +r=1Bm=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDjv=EF=BD=EF=BD=D8=9C=EF=BD&=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD(=EF=BD=EF=BDi=EF=BD=EF=BDt=EF=BDMz=D7 =9E=EF=BD=D7=AE=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD'm=EF=BD X^=EF=BD=08m=D5=A9m=EF=BD=EF=BDb=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BDb=EF=BD=EF=BDr=EF=BD=E9=9A=AE=08=EF=BD=EF =BDJq=EF=BDm)=EF=BD=EF=BD^j=EF=BD=EF=BD=1C=1EnH=EF=BD =EF=BD=EF=BDm=EF=BD,=EF=BDi=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD =EF=BD=EF=BD=08=EF=BD=EF=BD=1Et=D2=9Cmi=EF=BD^=EF=BD=DC =A5{=08=EF=BD=EF=BD=1Dt=D1=BA+u=EF=BD=EF=BD=1B(=EF=BD'B=08 &=EF=BDrH+=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDr=EF=BDh=EF=BDQE=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=D7=AB=EF=BD=EF=BDb=EF=BD=EF =BDi=EF=BD=C7=A5=EF=BD=EF=BDZr)=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF =BDv=EF=BDr=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDrH+=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDr=EF =BDh=EF=BD]=05=EF=BD])i=EF=BDb=EF=BD=0Ei=C5=BB-=EF=BDW=EF =BD=EF=BD{l=EF=BD7=EF=BD=D7=99=EF=BD=EF=BD=08=EF=BD=EF =BDNi=EF=BD=EF=BD%=EF=BD=EF=BD4=EF=BD3=EF=BD=01=EF =BD=DB=8A=EF=BDr=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD"=EF=BD=EF=BD t=EF=BDf=EF=BD=EF=BD)=EF=BD=05=EF=BDZ=EF=BD&=EF=BD)^ r=EF=BDh=EF=BD=EF=BDt=EF=BD=EF=BD[=EF=BDY=7Fn=EF=BDr =EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD"=EF=BD=EF=BDt=EF=BD=EF=BD =EF=BD}=0F=EF=BD=07=EF=BDy=EF=BD=EF=BDa=EF=BDh=EF=BD =EF=BD-=EF=BDW=EF=BD=EF=BD{l=EF=BD7=EF=BD=EF=BDG(=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDI=EF=BD=EF=BD=08=EF=BD=EF=BD Ni=C5=A8ky=EF=BDm=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDkw&=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD(=EF=BD=EF=BDq}=EF=BD =EF=BD=C5=8D=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=D1=A8=EF=BD=11}L =EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF =BD=11=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=11=EF=BD=E5=A5=90=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BD=D9=A1=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=1B]ls=EF =BD=EF=BD=0F=EF=BD=EF=BDw=03=EF=BD=EF=BDr=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BD&=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD(=EF=BD=EF=BDay=C6=AB=EF =BD=EF=BD'u=EF=BD=EF=BD{o==EF=BD|=EF=BD=1Bf=EF=BD=EF =BDr=EF=BD=EF=BD(=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=7F;=08=19b=EF =BD=EF=BD=1E=EF=BD=EF=BD=EC=8An=EF=BD)=DC=BA=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDu=EF=BD?i=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF =BD-=EF=BDW=EF=BD=EF=BD{l=EF=BD7=EF=BD=EF=BDf=EF=BD =EF=BD)=EF=BDj=1A=EF=BD~=1Bm=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD 2j=1A(r=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDi=CC=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BDj=1A(=EF=BD=07=EF=BDm=E6=9C=A2{?u=EF=BDZ=EF=BD[!=EF =BDil=EF=BD)^r=EF=BDh=EF=BD^=EF=BD=F3=B0=9F=A2{l=EF=BD7 =EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=BD=A72>=EF=BDbs/=EF=BDn=EF=BD=EF =BD C(n)^n=EF=BD=1E=EF=BD=D7=AB~=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDa=EF=BD=EF =BD=1E=EF=BD=EF=BD-=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=7F=EF =BD=C7=9A=EF=BD=EF=BDrj=1A(r=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDr=18 =EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDm=CA=97=EF=BDy=EF=BD=DC=86v=EF=BDz=EF =BDei=C7=A1=EF=BDW^=EF=BD'=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDm=EF=BD=EF =BDn=EF=BDr=EF=BD=EF=BD"v=EF=BDu=EF=BDG=EF=BD=EF=BD "=EF=BD=EF=BDt=EF=BD=E8-=86=EF=BD=EF=BD=19=EF=BD=EF =BD=08=EF=BD=EF=BDt=DA=9C\=EF=BD=EF=BDn=EF=BDa=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD^=EF=BD=EF=BD"=EF=BD=E6=9D=8E=EF=BD-=EF =BD=EF=BD=DE=99=EF=BDp=EF=BD=EF=BDa=EF=BDM)=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BDm=CA=97=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD^=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF =BDj=EF=BD+r=19=DA=99=EF=BD=EF=BDzn=EF=BD=DC=A9z=18=EF=BDu =EF=BD=EF=BDj[=EF=BD=EF=BDf=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD!=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD+=EF =BD=EF=BD=1E=EF=BD=D7=ABzwb=7F=EF=BD=7F=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD =EF=BDZnW=EF=BDv+=EF=BD\t=EF=BD-$=EF=BD =EF=BDDC=EF=BDc=EF=BD=EF=BDw/=EF=BDi ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:27 PM PST US From: "923te" <923te@att.net> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: High CHTs Epilogue I think you may be right about 320 being too cool. It seems my engine performs best when CHT's are in the 370 - 385 range when set for best power ----- Original Message ----- From: jwellum@AOL.COM To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 9:20 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: High CHTs Epilogue The only time that I have seen temps over 400 degrees has been on newly installed cylinders and I have never seen the oil temp above 195. Typically see 375 on the hottest cylinder on a HOT day. Saturday morning was cool at about 50 degrees. I don't think the hottest cylinder made it to 360 degrees. That was at 2000 feet, leaned out, straight and level at 2700 rpm. Our plane has an EI, 4 probe CHT/EGT gauge which probably reads less than a JPI. Number 2 cylinder is always the coldest at about 320 degrees and sometimes I think it runs too cold. In a message dated 4/21/2012 11:53:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time, teamgrumman@yahoo.com writes: Mark, That's good to hear. When my plane is "dialed in" it will still run 410 straight and level at 4000 feet. Can't wait to get the IO360 on and finished. Gary Sent from my iPad On Apr 21, 2012, at 6:30 PM, "Mark T. Mueller" wrote: A few weeks ago I asked for advice/comments on high CHTs after my annual inspection. I appreciate the responses I got back, and most concentrated on baffling and timing. My IA swore the timing on the engine was correct, and the cabin heating duct in front of the exit ramp would not effect cooling flow much. Spent a day trying to troubleshoot, and he became convinced it was an instrumentation issue. Kind of made sense, but I was skeptical. He did find one of the CHT probes had significant tip wear (they were well over 10 years old...) After new probe installation, the monitor indicated a 10 degree drop in CHTs, but still running well over 430 in cruise... Last weekend, I re-routed the heater duct away and around the exit ramps. A pain, but just took some time and extra materials. Noticed an immediate improvement in cooling, but CHTs were still too high for my liking. I ordered a Mag-Rite timing tool kit from ATS. Digital protractor and nylon cylinder probe to enable very precise location of actual TDC (as opposed to a mark on a ring and location on case.) Can't say enough good things about this kit (worth every penny), very easy to use, and the digital protractor has 1/10 degree resolution. Re-timed my mags (I have a LASAR ignition) to specs. To say the timing was 'off' is an understatement. It was WAY off. The smoothness of the LASAR masked the issue well, and the motor put out good power. Now that it is 'dialed in' to within a tenth of a degree of accuracy, the CHTs dropped over 20F. So, I improved cooling air flow, and fixed my timing. This is AFTER paying an IA for a complete annual, and coming back for troubleshooting. At the end of the day, the lesson I learned is after over 10 years of ownership, I will know when 33R is "dialed in" or not regardless of what an IA may believe even if he has been taking care of this aircraft for several years... Mark href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.m atronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution st href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.m atronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:32:30 PM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling From: Gary L Vogt I intentionally fill mine with rags when not in use. When it won't run, I kn ow why. Gary Sent from my iPad On Apr 23, 2012, at 9:50 PM, "923te" <923te@att.net> wrote: > Also, shop rags or papertowels forgotten and left behind. My friends Comma nche has a similar induction for air and we found a rag plugging it up one d ay.... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gary > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 2:03 PM > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling > > Yea, birds can be a pain in the ass. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 23, 2012, at 11:01 AM, Dan Schmitz wrote: > >> I employed one of those disgusting owner techniques. I told my A&P to fi x it up and went home. I know I looked over the installation later, but don =99t recall now. >> The icing thought occurred to me as well. But the old system used a grat e and there=99s the carb heat path. It=99s not going to be wors e than the original. I=99m more afraid of hidden birds. >> Dan >> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumm an-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Vogt >> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 1:19 PM >> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling >> "So my baffles have a grate over the air intake hole." >> I actually discussed that with a DER. There was a concern over impact ic e blocking the hole. I didn't buy it but who am I to argue. Leaving it off made it simple. How did you attach the screen? Seems simple enough. >> From: Dan Schmitz >> To: "teamgrumman-list@matronics.com" >> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 5:05 AM >> Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling >> I believe my engine is 0.4 degrees down thrust. I thought that was in th e target range. It matched the old cowl quite nicely and the new cowl, wher e you had marked some likely lines matched up almost perfectly. In the one p icture where the engine looks high, it was a very early picture. The cowl w as just resting on the engine without any internal support at that point. I don=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t currently have any baffle pictures. I want to replace the bottom #4 spark plug soon, so hopefully I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2 ll remember then. >> Oh, one change I insisted on: The old air intake above the #3 cylinder u sed to have a grating. The new baffles simply had an open hole. I had visi ons of a bird quietly nesting back there and me trying to take off with a bi rd nest covering the air filter. So my baffles have a grate over the air in take hole. >> Dan >> )=EF=BD=EF=BD=DF=A2{l=EF=BD7=EF=BDr=EF=BDh=EF=BDM4=EF =BDM=1Fi=C7=9C=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDz=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD .=EF=BD'=EF=BDN=17=EF=BDy=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDjr=EF =BD=EF=BD&j)E=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDR=C7=AD=EF=BD=EF=BD=1A=EF =BD=EF=BD'=EF=BD=EF=BD =EF=BD=EF=BDEy=EF=BDn=EF=BD=EF =BD j=EF=BDj=EF=BD+=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD =1E=EF=BD=17=EF=BD j|=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDn=EF=BD)b=EF=BD'=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD !j=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD'=EF=BD+=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD =D8=A8=EF=BD =DC=86+=EF=BDI=EF=BDr=10=EF=BD=EF=BDyhi=EF=BD =EF=BDk k=EF=BD =1E =16=EF=BD=14=04=0F=EF=BD=EF=BDh=EF=BD=16 =EF=BDy=EF=BD=DD=9A=EF=BD!=EF=BD=EF=BD!=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF =BDj=1A=EF=BD~=1Bm=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD =EF=BD=EF=BD =EF=BD'=EF=BD=EF=BD=1C=EF=BDo=EF=BDj=EF=BDj=EF=BD+M=EF =BD=1A=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=CB=8A=EF=BDa=EF=BD=EF=BD =7F=EF=BD 0=EF=BD=EF=BDk=EF=BDx=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD&=EF =BD=D6=AF=EF=BD=06=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDja=EF=BD=EF=BD i=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=014N4=EF=BD=EF =BDX@E9=15 I&=EF=BDz =EF=BDj=EF=BD(=EF=BD=D7=A7=EF=BD=EF=BD l=EF=BD=EF=BD=DA=8AV=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDj=EF=BD^Y=EF =BD=C5=A2=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDky=EF=BDm=EF=BD=EF=BD =EF=BD~=EF=BD=EF=BD=C9=9A=EF=BD=EF=BD'=EF=BD=EF=BD=1C=EF =BDhm=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD~=EF=BD=EF=BD=C9=9A=EF=BD=EF=BD '=EF=BD=EF=BD=1C=EF=BDo=EF=BD.+- =EF=BD=EF=BD&=EF=BD*'Y =EF=BD=D2=8A=D7=93=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=CA=8B=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=1E=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD.=EF =BD=EF=BD+=EF=BD=C6=AD=EF=BD:=DA'W=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD@vh=EF =BDj=1A=EF=BD~=1Bm=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD =EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BD'=EF=BD=EF=BD=1C=EF=BDo=DC=A2{k=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=7F=EF=BD 0=EF=BD=EF=BDk=EF =BDx=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD&=EF=BD=EF=BD'=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD =EF=BD=D8=A8=EF=BD=EF=BDo=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BDL=EF=BD=EF=BDM=12=0F8=EF=BDD<=EF=BD,r=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=1C=EF=BDg=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=E8=83=08=EF =BD=EF=BD=1Daz(!=EF=BD[+r=1Bm=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDz=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=1C=EF=BDo=EF=BD=EF=BDx=EF=BD]4=DB=BBu=EF =BD=CE=B7=DB=9D=EF=BD=EF=BD=CC=A2v>4s=EF=BDdq=EF=BD=1D=EF=BD H"wm=EF=BD=D3=BEu=EF=BD=EF=BD+=EF=BD=EF=BDg=EF=BD=EF=BD +=EF=BD=EF=BDb=EF=BD "v=EF=BDu=EF=BD=E8-=86=EF=BDl=EF =BD=EF=BDm=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD2j=1A(r=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BDy=EF=BDMt=EF=BDn=EF=BD=EF=BD=7F:=EF=BD nw=D3=8B2=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=CE=A1=EF=BD=EF=BD4v=EF =BD =EF=BD=DD=B6=EF=BDN=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BD=1C=EF=BD*m=EF=BD*^=EF=BD=EF=BDm=EF=BD6=EF=BD j=EF=BD+=EF=BD=EF=BDl=EF=BD=EF=BDm=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD w(=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD&=EF=BDh=EF=BD=EF=BD=06=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BD=1C=EF=BD*m=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDr=EF=BD=EF =BD^=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDj=EF=BDr=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD a`=13=EF=BD=EF=BD$z=EF=BD=16=02=07=EF=BDN=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDM5=EF=BD^z=EF=BD^=EF=BD=D9=85=EF=BD N=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EC=B9=B9=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=1C =EF=BD*m=EF=BD=EF=BD=1C=EF=BD*mv+=EF=BD +r=1Bm=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BDjv=EF=BD=EF=BD=D8=9C=EF=BD&=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD( =EF=BD=EF=BDi=EF=BD=EF=BDt=EF=BDMz=D7=9E=EF=BD=D7=AE=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD'm=EF=BDX^=EF=BD=08m=D5=A9m=EF =BD=EF=BDb=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDb=EF=BD =EF=BDr=EF=BD=E9=9A=AE=08=EF=BD=EF=BDJq=EF=BDm)=EF=BD=EF =BD^j=EF=BD=EF=BD=1C=1EnH=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDm=EF=BD,=EF=BD i=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=08=EF=BD=EF=BD =1Et=D2=9Cmi=EF=BD^=EF=BD=DC=A5{=08=EF=BD=EF=BD=1Dt=D1=BA+u=EF =BD=EF=BD=1B(=EF=BD'B=08&=EF=BDrH+=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDr=EF =BDh=EF=BDQE=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=D7=AB=EF=BD=EF =BDb=EF=BD=EF=BDi=EF=BD=C7=A5=EF=BD=EF=BDZr)=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BDv=EF=BDr=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDrH+=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BDr=EF=BDh=EF=BD]=05=EF=BD])i=EF=BDb=EF=BD=0Ei=C5=BB -=EF=BDW=EF=BD=EF=BD{l=EF=BD7=EF=BD=D7=99=EF=BD=EF=BD=08 =EF=BD=EF=BDNi=EF=BD=EF=BD%=EF=BD=EF=BD4=EF=BD3=EF=BD =01=EF=BD=DB=8A=EF=BDr=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD"=EF=BD=EF =BDt=EF=BDf=EF=BD=EF=BD)=EF=BD=05=EF=BDZ=EF=BD&=EF=BD )^r=EF=BDh=EF=BD=EF=BDt=EF=BD=EF=BD[=EF=BDY=7Fn=EF=BDr=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD"=EF=BD=EF=BDt=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF =BD}=0F=EF=BD=07=EF=BDy=EF=BD=EF=BDa=EF=BDh=EF=BD=EF=BD -=EF=BDW=EF=BD=EF=BD{l=EF=BD7=EF=BD=EF=BDG(=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BDI=EF=BD=EF=BD=08=EF=BD=EF=BDNi=C5=A8ky=EF =BDm=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDkw&=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF =BD(=EF=BD=EF=BDq}=EF=BD =EF=BD=C5=8D=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD =D1=A8=EF=BD=11}L =EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=11=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=11=EF=BD=E5=A5=90 =EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=D9=A1=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD =1B]ls=EF=BD=EF=BD=0F=EF=BD=EF=BDw=03=EF=BD=EF=BDr=EF=BD =EF=BD=EF=BD&=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD(=EF=BD=EF=BDay=C6=AB=EF =BD=EF=BD'u=EF=BD=EF=BD{o==EF=BD|=EF=BD=1Bf=EF=BD=EF =BDr=EF=BD=EF=BD(=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=7F;=08=19b=EF =BD=EF=BD=1E=EF=BD=EF=BD=EC=8An=EF=BD)=DC=BA=EF=BD=EF=BD =EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDu=EF=BD?i=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD- =EF=BDW=EF=BD=EF=BD{l=EF=BD7=EF=BD=EF=BDf=EF=BD=EF=BD )=EF=BDj=1A=EF=BD~=1Bm=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD2j=1A(r=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDi=CC=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDj=1A (=EF=BD=07=EF=BDm=E6=9C=A2{?u=EF=BDZ=EF=BD[!=EF=BDil=EF=BD )^r=EF=BDh=EF=BD^=EF=BD=F3=B0=9F=A2{l=EF=BD7=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF =BD=BD=A72>=EF=BDbs/=EF=BDn=EF=BD=EF=BD C(n)^n=EF=BD=1E =EF=BD=D7=AB~=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDa=EF=BD=EF=BD=1E=EF=BD=EF =BD-=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=7F=EF=BD=C7=9A=EF=BD=EF =BDrj=1A(r=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDr=18=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD m=CA=97=EF=BDy=EF=BD=DC=86v=EF=BDz=EF=BDei=C7=A1=EF=BDW^=EF =BD'=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDm=EF=BD=EF=BDn=EF=BDr=EF=BD=EF =BD"v=EF=BDu=EF=BDG=EF=BD=EF=BD"=EF=BD=EF=BDt=EF=BD=E8- =86=EF=BD=EF=BD=19=EF=BD=EF=BD=08=EF=BD=EF=BDt=DA=9C\=EF =BD=EF=BDn=EF=BDa=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD^=EF=BD=EF=BD "=EF=BD=E6=9D=8E=EF=BD-=EF=BD=EF=BD=DE=99=EF=BDp=EF=BD=EF =BDa=EF=BDM)=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDm=CA=97=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD ^=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDj=EF=BD+r=19=DA=99=EF=BD=EF=BDzn=EF=BD =DC=A9z=18=EF=BDu=EF=BD=EF=BDj[=EF=BD=EF=BDf=EF=BD=EF=BD =EF=BD!=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF =BD+=EF=BD=EF=BD=1E=EF=BD=D7=ABzwb=7F=EF=BD=7F=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BDZnW=EF=BDv+=EF=BD\t=EF=BD-$=EF=BD =EF=BD DC=EF=BDc=EF=BD=EF=BDw/=EF=BDi > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message teamgrumman-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.