Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:46 AM - Re: Trick to opening canopy in flight? (barry speronello)
2. 07:09 AM - Re: Trick to opening canopy in flight? (FLYaDIVE)
3. 07:22 AM - Re: Trick to opening canopy in flight? (Jim Fudge)
4. 09:36 AM - Re: Trick to opening canopy in flight? (Gary Vogt)
5. 09:42 AM - Re: Trick to opening canopy in flight? (Gary Vogt)
6. 09:58 AM - Re: Trick to opening canopy in flight? (FLYaDIVE)
7. 12:08 PM - ElectroAir (Gary Vogt)
8. 02:23 PM - Re: Trick to opening canopy in flight? (robsherwin@AOL.COM)
9. 04:00 PM - Re: Trick to opening canopy in flight? (barry speronello)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Trick to opening canopy in flight? |
Sounds good. Just need to muscle up more and there is no unusual danger of
damaging the canopy seal.
Presume slower is easier than faster?
Beyond comfort, my interest in this is because I've been reading up on
emergency procedures; particularly ditching. The most popular local
sightseeing flight is the Hudson River corridor and if the engine quits
along there at <=1500ft, there is nowhere to land but the river. Having
the canopy open and wedging something into the gap so it doesn't slam shut
on impact seems like an important part of the process. So next time I'll
go out and try it at best glide speed so I know how to do it there.
Thanks, again.
Barry S(2)
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Trick to opening canopy in flight? |
Hello Barry :-)
Well you are 100% correct.... You ARE pulling against a partial vacuum and
that is why it is difficult to open. [IFR side note: If you open your Alt
Air Valve you will see an INSTANT increase in altitude. That is because of
the partial vacuum in the cockpit.] Keeping the canopy open is also a a
bit tricky. One trick that many do/have is a 1" ID piece of PVC tubing
with about 1/3 of the wall removed for the entire length, forming a 'C'...
Length... The distance from the front window bow to the placard arrow that
is on the inside railing. Then you slip this PVC over the rail to keep the
canopy open to that dimension.
You DO NOT want to go beyond that distance because the forces reverse
direction. They will force the canopy all the way back. Not Good. They
will rip the canopy out of your hands.
The why of your sliding difficulty could be - Insufficient lubrication on
the canopy rails. A simple check for both lubrication and quality of your
rails is during pre-flight try to slide the canopy open from one side near
the bottom rail. If it slides lubrication is good, if it twists, then
rails could be misaligned or worn or both.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 11:48 PM, barry speronello <bkspero@gmail.com>wrote:
> I tried for the first time today to open my Tiger's canopy in flight. IAS
> about 100 kts. Pulled back on the latch, and nothing. Reached up for a
> better grip and it moved some, but did not open. Tried a third time with
> two hands and it felt like the front seal was stretching flightly, but it
> would not separate. It was like I was trying to open it against a vacuum
> and as long as no air leaked in, the canopy wouldn't slide back.
>
> I stopped at that point, as I was concerned that pulling harder might tear
> the relatively soft seal on the front face of the canopy.
>
> Other information. I am sure the latch was unhooked...it holds my canopy
> solidly forward and on my second and third tries the canopy moved to the
> extent that the seal stretched. Movement like that does not happen with
> the latch closed.
>
> Both air vents were full open and blowing lots of air into the cabin. Hot
> air was closed.
>
> What am I missing? Is there a trick to getting it open in flight? During
> one of my training flights in a rental Tiger the instructor opened the
> canopy with little effort. That was in the autumn, though, so the vents
> were probably closed. But I would have guessed that the vents would help
> equalize the pressure and make opening easier. Is it that the interior was
> actually pressurized relative to outside and the problem is that it can't
> slide against the top of the rails?
>
> Thanks in advance for your help.
>
> Barry S(2)
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Trick to opening canopy in flight? |
NO trickjust pull hard. I have flown my Cheetah in Florida
with the canopy pulled back about 6-8 inches for over 20 years. I even
made some air scoops out of home shop vac attachments by adding a clip
to it so that I can attach the scoop to the canopy bow. The high speed
air is diverted into the cockpit and it keeps us cool. On takeoff I
have the scoops already mounted and slide the canopy forward until it
makes contact with the scoops. No problems.
At cruise speed the airflow will pull the canopy towards the canopy bow
and it takes a little extra muscle to overcome the initial force to open
the canopy.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Trick to opening canopy in flight? |
Barry,=0A=0AIt's a common misconception that you'll be able to open the can
opy and prop something in there. -Some propose making little half tubes f
rom PVC and when there is an emergency, open the canopy, place the tube ove
r the rail, close the canopy, and THEN when you crash, just open the canopy
and get out. -=0A=0AForget all that bullshit. -Don't even carry a fire
extinguisher. -If and when you have an emergency, fly the plane all the
way to the crash site. Period. -You'll never have enough time to do anyth
ing else. -Ask me how I know. -=0A=0AA fire extinguisher will only fill
the cabin with fumes that will kill you. -Opening the canopy adds oxygen
to the fire. -Get the plane on the ground as quickly as possible. -=0A
=0AIf your engine quits over the Hudson, get as close to land as possible.
-Odds are the plane will flip over. -Unless you pull up at the last min
ute and let the plane fall out of the sky in a full stall. -Trust me, unl
ess you are practicing in a simulator, the best you can do is the best you
can do. -=0A=0ADo you really think you'll waste 30 seconds trying to open
your canopy an NOT keep flying the plane?=0A=0AGary=0A=0A=0A______________
__________________=0A From: barry speronello <bkspero@gmail.com>=0ATo: team
grumman-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:46 AM=0ASubject:
Re: TeamGrumman-List: Trick to opening canopy in flight?=0A =0A=0ASounds g
ood.- Just need to muscle up more and there is no unusual danger of damag
ing the canopy seal.=0APresume slower is easier than faster?=0ABeyond comfo
rt, my interest in this is because I've been reading up on emergency proced
ures; particularly ditching.- The most popular local sightseeing flight i
s the Hudson River corridor and if the engine quits along there at <=1500
ft, there is nowhere to land but the river.- Having the canopy open and w
edging something into the gap so it doesn't slam shut on impact seems like
an important part of the process.- So next time I'll go out and try it at
best glide speed so I know how to do it there.=0AThanks, again.=0ABarry S(
====================
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Trick to opening canopy in flight? |
Like I said. -Lots of bad advice out there. -=0A=0ADO NOT STOP FLYING T
HE PLANE. -=0ADO NOT-TAKE TIME OUT OF YOUR DAY TO DO ANYTHING ELSE. -
=0AFLYING YOUR PLANE NEEDS THE UTMOST ATTENTION.=0ACONCENTRATE ON FINDING A
GOOD CRASH SITE.-=0AFLY THE PLANE TO THAT LOCATION.=0A=0ASome people say
to carry an ax in the plane. -First of all, in a crash, you don't want a
nything loose in the cabin that is heavy enough to break plexiglass. -Unl
ess you fabricate a holder for your side panel next to your seat, you'll ne
ver be able to get to it once it's buried under the rudder pedals.=0A=0ADO
NOT STOP FLYING THE PLANE UNTIL IT'S EITHER IN THE TIE DOWN OR STOPS MOVING
AFTER A CRASH.=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: FLYaDIVE
<flyadive@gmail.com>=0ATo: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday,
May 13, 2012 7:09 AM=0ASubject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Trick to opening cano
py in flight?=0A =0A=0AHello Barry :-)=0A=0AWell you are 100% correct.... Y
ou ARE pulling against a-partial-vacuum-and that is why it is-diffi
cult-to open. -[IFR side note: If you open your Alt Air Valve you will
see an INSTANT increase in altitude. -That is-because-of the-partia
l-vacuum in the cockpit.] -Keeping the canopy open is also a a bit tric
ky. -One trick that many do/have is a 1" ID piece of PVC tubing with abou
t 1/3 of the wall removed for the entire length, forming a 'C'... -Length
... The distance from the front window bow to the-placard-arrow that is
on the inside railing. -Then you slip this PVC over the rail to keep the
canopy open to that-dimension.-=0AYou DO NOT want to go beyond that di
stance because the forces reverse direction. -They will force the canopy
all the way back. -Not Good. -They will rip the canopy out of your hand
s.=0AThe why of your sliding-difficulty-could be - Insufficient-lubri
cation-on the canopy rails. -A simple check for both-lubrication-an
d quality of your rails is during pre-flight try to slide the canopy open f
rom one side near the bottom rail. -If it slides-lubrication-is good,
if it twists, then rails could be-misaligned-or worn or both.-=0A=0A
Barry=0A"Chop'd Liver"=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Sat, May 12, 2012 at 11:48 PM, barry s
peronello <bkspero@gmail.com> wrote:=0A=0AI tried for the first time today
to open my Tiger's canopy in flight.- IAS about 100 kts.- Pulled back o
n the latch, and nothing.- Reached up for a better grip and it moved some
, but did not open.- Tried a third time with two hands and it felt like t
he front seal was stretching flightly, but it would not separate.- It was
like I was trying to open it against a vacuum and as long as no air leaked
in, the canopy wouldn't slide back.=0A>I stopped at that point, as I was c
oncerned that pulling harder might tear the relatively soft seal on the fro
nt face of the canopy.=0A>Other information.- I am sure the latch was unh
ooked...it holds my canopy solidly forward and on my second and third tries
the canopy moved to the extent that the seal stretched.- Movement like t
hat does not happen with the latch closed.=0A>Both air vents were full open
and blowing lots of air into the cabin.- Hot air was closed.=0A>What am
I missing?- Is there a trick to getting it open in flight?- During one
of my training flights in a rental Tiger the instructor opened the canopy w
ith little effort.- That was in the autumn, though, so the vents were pro
bably closed.- But I would have guessed that the vents would help equaliz
e the pressure and make opening easier.- Is it that the interior was actu
ally pressurized relative to outside and the problem is that it can't slide
against the top of the rails?=0A>Thanks in advance for your help.=0A>Barry
S(2)=0A>st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumm
an-List=0Atp://forums.matronics.com=0A_blank">http://www.matronics.com/cont
=======================
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Trick to opening canopy in flight? |
You are correct Gary:
Unless one practices the grab & block maneuver over and over it is not one
of their quiver of arrow tricks and would never come into play as an
emergency action.
30 seconds! Wow, that is slow!
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
Emergency procedure: Open canopy - Bend over - Kiss you sweet ass good by.
OR do it right the first time.
On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 12:36 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Barry,
>
> It's a common misconception that you'll be able to open the canopy and
> prop something in there. Some propose making little half tubes from PVC
> and when there is an emergency, open the canopy, place the tube over the
> rail, close the canopy, and THEN when you crash, just open the canopy and
> get out.
>
> Forget all that bullshit. Don't even carry a fire extinguisher. If and
> when you have an emergency, fly the plane all the way to the crash site.
> Period. You'll never have enough time to do anything else. Ask me how I
> know.
>
> A fire extinguisher will only fill the cabin with fumes that will kill
> you. Opening the canopy adds oxygen to the fire. Get the plane on the
> ground as quickly as possible.
>
> If your engine quits over the Hudson, get as close to land as possible.
> Odds are the plane will flip over. Unless you pull up at the last minute
> and let the plane fall out of the sky in a full stall. Trust me, unless
> you are practicing in a simulator, the best you can do is the best you can
> do.
>
> Do you really think you'll waste 30 seconds trying to open your canopy an
> NOT keep flying the plane?
>
> Gary
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* barry speronello <bkspero@gmail.com>
> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:46 AM
>
> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Trick to opening canopy in flight?
>
> Sounds good. Just need to muscle up more and there is no unusual danger
> of damaging the canopy seal.
> Presume slower is easier than faster?
> Beyond comfort, my interest in this is because I've been reading up on
> emergency procedures; particularly ditching. The most popular local
> sightseeing flight is the Hudson River corridor and if the engine quits
> along there at <=1500ft, there is nowhere to land but the river. Having
> the canopy open and wedging something into the gap so it doesn't slam shut
> on impact seems like an important part of the process. So next time I'll
> go out and try it at best glide speed so I know how to do it there.
> Thanks, again.
> Barry S(2)
>
> *-==================================
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 7
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|
Barry,=0A=0AThe ElectroAir starts at 0 degrees BTDC. =C2-At 400 rpm it ad
vances to 7 degrees. =C2-By 600 rpm, it's at 25 degrees BTDC. =C2-=0A
=0AThe ElectroAir is NOT a CDI. =C2-It is not just an add-on to the basic
magneto. =C2-It's the same system used on distributorless ignition syste
ms in cars. =C2-=0A=A2 The biggest difference is the Electroair use
s one common coil instead of one coil per plug.=0A=0AThe unit that replaces
the mag is similar to the magnetic pickup on the cam (or crank) on cars.
=C2-=0A=A2 Just like in a car, it begins it's timing sequence at 0
BTDC.=0A=A2 There is no adjustment inside any box. =C2-=0A=A2
There is nothing to rub or wear out. =C2-=0A=A2 The only moving pa
rt is a 60 tooth wheel inside the unit used in place of right mag.=C2-=0A
=0AThe DIS, just like in your car, requires that the engine go through one
complete ignition sequence (2 revolutions) before it knows where it is.=0A
=0AThe backfiring was due to this learning curve. =C2-Following the instr
uctions in the install manual, there will be a toggle that turns the unit o
ff and on. =C2-=0A=A2 The coil is not in that loop. =C2-The coil
stays hot. =C2-Two circuit breakers. =C2-Two circuits.=0A=A2 You
will not get a backfire unless you intentionally turn of both left and righ
t and then turn one or the other on.=0A=0AStarting is done on both mags sin
ce they are both at 0 BTDC.=0A=0AMag drop is tested by shutting off the Ele
ctroair with the toggle (this tests the left mag): =C2-80 rpm drop=0A=0AE
lectroair turned back on. =C2-No backfire.=0A=0ASwitch to Right Mag (this
shorts the left mag and tests the Electroair): =C2-No noticeable drop in
rpm.=0A=0A==============0A=0A=0AFrom: FLYaDIVE <
flyadive@gmail.com>=0ATo: grumman-gang <grumman-gang@lists.xmission.com>=0A
Sent: Sun, May 13, 2012 8:38 am=0ASubject: Re: Electroair EIS-41000=0A=0A
=0ALawrence: I do not know if there is a difference between the Experimenta
l version and=0Athe STC version but with the Experimental, STARTING is only
done on the=0AMag, the Impulse Mag and then you switch on the CDI. There
is a 6=0ADeg diffidence in timing with the CDI and that is adjustable - Whi
ch may be=0Aout of timing on your engine. I mention this because I just ca
me across a=0Aproblem where the adjustment which is inside the the CDI alum
inum box was=0Aout of timing. The electronic adjustment is held in positio
n by friction=0Aof a rubber pad. Over time and temperature and swapping en
gines the=0Aadjustment was out. We did not get backfiring but we did see a
drop in MP=0Aat altitude of 8000' and above, more so than before, ask E.A.
about this. Barry=0A"Chop'd Liver"
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Trick to opening canopy in flight? |
You are right Gary, as pilot, fly the plane. Of course, if you have a pass
enger, it gives them something to do. It's part of my pre-flight briefing
(in case of an off-airport "landing" you have just one job to do). Then I
don't have to worry about it.
Rob Sherwin
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sun, May 13, 2012 9:43 am
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Trick to opening canopy in flight?
Like I said. Lots of bad advice out there.
DO NOT STOP FLYING THE PLANE.
DO NOT TAKE TIME OUT OF YOUR DAY TO DO ANYTHING ELSE.
FLYING YOUR PLANE NEEDS THE UTMOST ATTENTION.
CONCENTRATE ON FINDING A GOOD CRASH SITE.
FLY THE PLANE TO THAT LOCATION.
Some people say to carry an ax in the plane. First of all, in a crash, you
don't want anything loose in the cabin that is heavy enough to break plexi
glass. Unless you fabricate a holder for your side panel next to your seat
, you'll never be able to get to it once it's buried under the rudder pedal
s.
DO NOT STOP FLYING THE PLANE UNTIL IT'S EITHER IN THE TIE DOWN OR STOPS MOV
ING AFTER A CRASH.
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Trick to opening canopy in flight?
Hello Barry :-)
Well you are 100% correct.... You ARE pulling against a partial vacuum and
that is why it is difficult to open. [IFR side note: If you open your Alt
Air Valve you will see an INSTANT increase in altitude. That is because of
the partial vacuum in the cockpit.] Keeping the canopy open is also a a b
it tricky. One trick that many do/have is a 1" ID piece of PVC tubing with
about 1/3 of the wall removed for the entire length, forming a 'C'... Len
gth... The distance from the front window bow to the placard arrow that is
on the inside railing. Then you slip this PVC over the rail to keep the ca
nopy open to that dimension.
You DO NOT want to go beyond that distance because the forces reverse direc
tion. They will force the canopy all the way back. Not Good. They will r
ip the canopy out of your hands.
The why of your sliding difficulty could be - Insufficient lubrication on t
he canopy rails. A simple check for both lubrication and quality of your r
ails is during pre-flight try to slide the canopy open from one side near t
he bottom rail. If it slides lubrication is good, if it twists, then rails
could be misaligned or worn or both.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 11:48 PM, barry speronello <bkspero@gmail.com> wrot
e:
I tried for the first time today to open my Tiger's canopy in flight. IAS
about 100 kts. Pulled back on the latch, and nothing. Reached up for a be
tter grip and it moved some, but did not open. Tried a third time with two
hands and it felt like the front seal was stretching flightly, but it woul
d not separate. It was like I was trying to open it against a vacuum and a
s long as no air leaked in, the canopy wouldn't slide back.
I stopped at that point, as I was concerned that pulling harder might tear
the relatively soft seal on the front face of the canopy.
Other information. I am sure the latch was unhooked...it holds my canopy s
olidly forward and on my second and third tries the canopy moved to the ext
ent that the seal stretched. Movement like that does not happen with the l
atch closed.
Both air vents were full open and blowing lots of air into the cabin. Hot
air was closed.
What am I missing? Is there a trick to getting it open in flight? During
one of my training flights in a rental Tiger the instructor opened the cano
py with little effort. That was in the autumn, though, so the vents were p
robably closed. But I would have guessed that the vents would help equaliz
e the pressure and make opening easier. Is it that the interior was actual
ly pressurized relative to outside and the problem is that it can't slide a
gainst the top of the rails?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Barry S(2)
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Trick to opening canopy in flight? |
Tried it again, and it worked fine. Pulled the power, trimmed to best
glide, and pulled open the canopy. Easy at the slower speed.
I get the guidance to first fly the plane, then find the best (least bad)
site to put down the plane, then land it as well as possible. But I also
think with the right preparation we should be able to get the canopy
propped open as well. From 1500 ft we'd have about 90 seconds best case.
Figure 60 seconds real life. I intend to preselect landing locations along
the river ahead of time. Except for the golf course in Jersey City, I
expect the only options will be in the River...but I'll know that ahead of
time for every spot along the route.
So I think that there should be time. I'LL make it part of my practice
routine and see.
Thanks for the help,
Barry S(2)
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