Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:47 AM - LoPresti Business Process (arjays@AOL.COM)
2. 09:02 AM - Re: LoPresti Business Process (Scott Boyce)
3. 09:49 AM - Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 07/27/12 (goldpilot@aol.com)
4. 12:45 PM - Re: LoPresti Business Process (arjays@AOL.COM)
5. 03:23 PM - Re: LoPresti Business Process (Carol Stocker)
6. 09:58 PM - Re: LoPresti Business Process (Peter Rosendale)
Message 1
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| Subject: | LoPresti Business Process |
Hi Guys!
I'd like to clarify some stuff. You guys know I love Grummans. I have my ow
n small fleet. I'm attached to the brand but even more than that I love avi
ation and aviation is a very small community. Personally, I also love?how c
apitalism fosters criticism and competition. It's good for eveyone. Valid c
riticism forces us to improve our products. We've changed the fit and finis
h of our inlets?for exactly that reason. In fact, I just was told by multip
le sources we need to elongate the ducts because everyone is using the chea
per 3" gasket material. OK, I'm for that. Keep improving, keep making bette
r products.
?
As for Gary's cowl, I've gone on record several times that I like what he's
done. Gosh, he's spend a decade getting this to market and that is no smal
l feat. And I don't think we're competitiors. Different products for differ
ent purposes and different customers. I don't think Gary sees it that way,
but that's OK. He's really a good guy and I think he's a bit frustrated wit
h the lack of aknowledgement towards the value of his product.
?
In the end however, all this controversy is good. It makes you think about
your needs and weigh the expense. This just makes for better decision makin
g.
?
Cheers!
Rj
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: LoPresti Business Process |
Are replacement parts available for boom beam light kit for the aa5b?
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 28, 2012, at 7:46, arjays@AOL.COM wrote:
> Hi Guys!
> I'd like to clarify some stuff. You guys know I love Grummans. I have my o
wn small fleet. I'm attached to the brand but even more than that I love avi
ation and aviation is a very small community. Personally, I also love how ca
pitalism fosters criticism and competition. It's good for eveyone. Valid cri
ticism forces us to improve our products. We've changed the fit and finish o
f our inlets for exactly that reason. In fact, I just was told by multiple s
ources we need to elongate the ducts because everyone is using the cheaper 3
" gasket material. OK, I'm for that. Keep improving, keep making better prod
ucts.
>
> As for Gary's cowl, I've gone on record several times that I like what he'
s done. Gosh, he's spend a decade getting this to market and that is no smal
l feat. And I don't think we're competitiors. Different products for differe
nt purposes and different customers. I don't think Gary sees it that way, bu
t that's OK. He's really a good guy and I think he's a bit frustrated with t
he lack of aknowledgement towards the value of his product.
>
> In the end however, all this controversy is good. It makes you think about
your needs and weigh the expense. This just makes for better decision makin
g.
>
> Cheers!
> Rj
>
>
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>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 07/27/12 |
Can somebody make msg#2 into something I can read?
Thanks,
David
Sent via mega-watt ion-burst
-----Original message-----
From: TeamGrumman-List Digest Server <teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sat, Jul 28, 2012 07:09:25 GMT+00:00
Subject: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 07/27/12
*
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Total Messages Posted Fri 07/27/12: 2
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:43 AM - Re: RJaguar cowling. Was: LoPresti sale extended through
AYA Convention (Gary Vogt)
2. 05:04 AM -
=?utf-8?B?UmU6IFRlYW1HcnVtbWFuLUxpc3Q6IFJKYWd1YXIgY293bGluZy4gIFdhczogIExv?=
=?utf-8?B?UHJlc3RpIHNhbGUgZXh0ZW5kZWQgdGhyb3VnaCAgQVlBIENvbnZlbnRpb24=?
(=?utf-8?B?bjJfbmFyY29zaXNAeWFob28uY29t?=)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 12:43:01 AM PST US
From: Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: RJaguar cowling. Was: LoPresti sale
extended through
AYA Convention
Brian,=0A=0AExcuse my honesty. =C2-But, I've spent a lot of time working
on cooling problems. =C2-A lot of time. =C2-The first LoPresti nose bow
l I ever saw was on a Tiger that was running excessive temperatures, 470+.
=C2-The problem is the way they seal around the inlet. =C2-The installe
r really needs to know what he's doing. =C2-The inlet on the LoPresti nos
e bowl doesn't provide the same sealing area the original nose bowl has.
=C2-If the cowling is installed without taking that into consideration, i
t won't seal and it won't cool.=0A=0ASome time back someone told Roy, "Desi
gn us a cowling like you did for Piper. =C2-We want round inlets. =C2-O
f course, we don't know why we want round inlets, but they look cool on tho
se Pipers and we want them too." =C2- Now, the LoPresti folks have been i
n the game a long time. =C2-And, they have done their homework. =C2-The
y know that few in the Grumman community will pay $$15,000 to $20,000 for a
complete cowling. =C2-=C2-They also know that plane owners have a maxi
mum dollar amount they are willing to spent on their planes. =C2-For Grum
mans, that's $5000 (Note: for other makes and models the maximum dollars is
different.) =C2-So, LoPresti makes a nose bowl that has round inlets tha
t look cool and it is priced right for the market. =C2-That's genius on t
heir part. =C2-LoPresti also makes a cowling for a Comanche that costs a
whole lot more than my cowling. =C2-It's a thing of beauty. =C2-But, th
en, Comanche owners are a different lot. =C2-(By-the-way, a good friend o
f mine had
a Comanche with the LoPresti cowling and prop and exhaust and tail mod and
who knows what else. =C2-He flew his plane to Florida, spent $100,000+ a
nd flew it home. =C2-He loved it. =C2-I worked on it. =C2-The cowling
fit and finish was better than anything I'd ever seen. =C2-I incorporate
d some of the ideas into my cowling.)=0A=0A=0AMy philosophy when making the
Jaguar cowling was different. =C2-I didn't sit down with a board of dire
ctors and bean counters and come up with a viable product for a particular
market. =C2-I wasn't thinking, "Where can I cut a few corners so I can ma
ke this easier and cheaper and increase my profit." =C2-I'm an engineer/s
cientist =C2-and hot rodder at heart. =C2-My goal was absolutely even C
HTs and as fast as I could go. =C2-=0A=0ARJ and his group have $5000 Grum
man niche and they can afford to cut the price $1000 and still make money.
=C2-My fabrication costs are more than he sells his nose bowl for at reta
il. =C2-I make almost nothing on the cowling. =C2-The baffles alone for
the cowling cost me almost $1000. =C2-I include them in the cost of the
cowling. =C2-I only do that because the installation takes time and the J
aguar cowling requires a Power Flow. =C2-All that adds up and most owners
won't pony up for the whole deal. =C2-=0A=0AAs for the inlet, do a littl
e research on your own. =C2-Look up Submerged inlets and look for papers
written between 1945 and 1954. =C2-Then compare. =C2-Bob Arnold would b
lock off his NACA inlet when racing and use the original inlet because the
original inlet was 2 knots faster. =C2-A properly designed NACA inlet has
almost no drag. =C2-Look at the NACA inlet for=C2-cabin air=C2-on yo
ur plane. =C2-See the lip at the entrance? =C2-Now look at the NACA inl
et LoPresti uses with the nose bowl. =C2-No lip. =C2-Again, that's the
80% rule. =C2-The cost to design that lip, with the correct entrance and
area ratio and the length to which they were restricted, for the inlet area
they needed, didn't add up. =C2-I don't make this stuff up. =C2-I repo
rt the facts. =C2-=C2-=0A=0AReports on my cowling are mixed? =C2-I gu
ess it depends on who installs mine cowling also. =C2- Still never heard
of anyone saying the Jaguar didn't cool better. =C2-=0A=0AGary, the dude
with attitude.=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Brian Haus
knecht <bhauskne@gmail.com>=0ATo: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com =0ASent: T
hursday, July 26, 2012 10:04 AM=0ASubject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: RJaguar co
wling. Was: LoPresti sale extended through AYA Convention=0A =0A=0AGary,
=0AApparently the Tiger in your shop has other problems if the CHTs are at
500. Other Lopresti nosebowl owners are quite happy. Speaking so negativel
y about this mod makes me reluctant to consider working with you. Positive
and polite messages from RJ at Lopresti make me more interested in buying f
rom them, along with the track record they have. Never heard of a Lopresti
nosebowl owner reverting back to stock nosebowl due to problems. Even repor
ts on your cowling are mixed with reports of little or no improvement at a
much higher cost. Buyer beware and all, but attitude does count. =0ACheers!
=0ABrian=0A=0A=0A_=0ABrian Hausknecht=0Abhauskne@gmail.com=0Awww.brianflys.
_________=0A=0AFrom: Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> =0ASender: owner-t
eamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com =0ADate: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 09:14:42 -07
00 (PDT)=0ATo: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com<teamgrumman-list@matronics.co
m>=0AReplyTo: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: TeamGrumman-List:
RJaguar cowling. Was: LoPresti sale extended through AYA Convention=0A
=0AI don't post to the G==0AG. =C2-=0A=0A$4000 for a no==0Ase bowl th
at really does nothing? =C2-Amazing. =C2-I've got a Tiger in ==0Amy s
hop right now with the LoPresti nose bowl that has CHTs near 500 degree
=0As. =C2-The NACA inlet is designed all wrong. =C2-Or, let's just say,
no==0At the way it was intended. =C2-=0A<==0Adiv>Dave will be gettin
g out of the fabrication business next year. &==0Anbsp;So, I'm in the pro
cess of finding a new fabricator.=0A<==0Aspan>=0A=0ANed, If you'd be so k
ind as to post to the= GG and point them toward my web site I would be ve
ry thankful. =C2- =0A=0AGary=0A=0A</==0Adiv> =0A=0A____________________
____________=0A From:= 923TE <923te@att.net>=0A==0ATo: "teamgrumman-li
st@matronics.com" <teamgrumman-list@matron= ics.com> =0ASent: Thu==0Ars
day, July 26, 2012 6:27 AM=0ASubj==0Aect: TeamGrumman-List: Fwd: LoPresti
sale extended through AYA ==0AConvention=0A =0A=0A=0AGar==0Ay,=0A
=0AMight be a good time to remind Tiger owners wha==0At they can get for
just a little bit more..=0ANed=0A=0A=0AFrom: "Ron Levy" <rblevy@mindspring.
com>=0A>Date: ==0AJuly 26, 2012 8:16:43 AM CDT=0A>To: <grumman-gang@mailm
an.xmission.com >=0A>Subject: LoPresti sale extended through=C2- AYA Conv
en==0Ation=0A>=0A>=0AGan==0Ag:=0A>=0A>You all saw this announcement fro
m RJ S==0Aiegel at LoPresti a few days ago:=0A>=0A>=0A>Hi Guys!=0A>>=0A>J
ust to remin==0Ad everyone, the cowl sale ends at the close of AirVenture
.=0A>>=0A>>We have eight out of ten slots taken= (So my simple brain says
there are=0A>>>=0A>>two slots left.) (retail $4995? SALE $3995)=0A>>>=0A>>
>Also, I said I would respond to Kev==0Ain Lancaster's rave review of the
new=0A>>>>=0A>>>60w X3 landing light with a sale for Oshkosh. So here it
==0Ais: The retail=0A>>>>=0A>>>is $1==0A399 and the sale for Oshkosh is
$949.=0A>>>><==0Abr>RJ emailed me this morning to say that as a favor to
AYA, the sale= is being=0A>>>extended through end of the AYA Convention
next F==0Ariday, August 3.=0A>>>=0A>>>Thanks, RJ!=0A>>>=0A>>>Ron=0A>>>(wh
o loves his Lo==0APresti cowl)=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A=0A>http:/==0A=3
3D==============
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==== =0A=C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9Eg
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"=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=9B=C2=AD=C5-X=C2=AD=B0=C3=AB,=C2=B9=C3=88Z=C2=B0
=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B5I=C3J=C3=C3=ACr=C2=B8=C2=A9=C2=B6*'
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 05:04:03 AM PST US
From: "=?utf-8?B?bjJfbmFyY29zaXNAeWFob28uY29t?=" <n2_narcosis@yahoo.com>
Subject: TeamGrumman-List:
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: LoPresti Business Process |
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: LoPresti Business Process |
I have a LoPresti cowl on my Tiger, AA5B...and I love it--the looks, my
CHT's and EGT's are perfect....I love the look!
Carol
N28742
On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Scott Boyce <tscott165@centurylink.net>wrote:
> Are replacement parts available for boom beam light kit for the aa5b?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 28, 2012, at 7:46, arjays@AOL.COM wrote:
>
> Hi Guys!
> I'd like to clarify some stuff. You guys know I love Grummans. I have my
> own small fleet. I'm attached to the brand but even more than that I love
> aviation and aviation is a *very* small community. Personally, I also
> love how capitalism fosters criticism and competition. It's good for
> eveyone. Valid criticism forces us to improve our products. We've changed
> the fit and finish of our inlets for exactly that reason. In fact, I just
> was told by multiple sources we need to elongate the ducts because everyone
> is using the cheaper 3" gasket material. OK, I'm for that. Keep improving,
> keep making better products.
>
> As for Gary's cowl, I've gone on record several times that I like what
> he's done. Gosh, he's spend a decade getting this to market and that is no
> small feat. And I don't think we're competitiors. Different products for
> different purposes and different customers. I don't think Gary sees it that
> way, but that's OK. He's really a good guy and I think he's a bit
> frustrated with the lack of aknowledgement towards the value of his
> product.
>
> In the end however, all this controversy is good. It makes you think about
> your needs and weigh the expense. This just makes for better decision
> making.
>
> Cheers!
> Rj
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | LoPresti Business Process |
Hi Rj,
You are a thorough gentleman! I met you at Oshkosh 2 years ago and was
impressed with you then and I am even more so now after reading your email
to Teamgrumman. . . extremely well said.
I have been following this forum for years and this is the first time I
have ever felt the need to write. I have owned many Grummans over the years
and love them for their simplicity and flying characteristics and it is
great to have many people coming up with improvements which add to the
betterment of our fleet.
Keep up the good work!
Peter Rosendale
Queensland, Australia
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
arjays@AOL.COM
Sent: Sunday, 29 July 2012 12:47 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: LoPresti Business Process
Hi Guys!
I'd like to clarify some stuff. You guys know I love Grummans. I have my own
small fleet. I'm attached to the brand but even more than that I love
aviation and aviation is a very small community. Personally, I also love how
capitalism fosters criticism and competition. It's good for eveyone. Valid
criticism forces us to improve our products. We've changed the fit and
finish of our inlets for exactly that reason. In fact, I just was told by
multiple sources we need to elongate the ducts because everyone is using the
cheaper 3" gasket material. OK, I'm for that. Keep improving, keep making
better products.
As for Gary's cowl, I've gone on record several times that I like what he's
done. Gosh, he's spend a decade getting this to market and that is no small
feat. And I don't think we're competitiors. Different products for different
purposes and different customers. I don't think Gary sees it that way, but
that's OK. He's really a good guy and I think he's a bit frustrated with the
lack of aknowledgement towards the value of his product.
In the end however, all this controversy is good. It makes you think about
your needs and weigh the expense. This just makes for better decision
making.
Cheers!
Rj
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