Today's Message Index:
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1. 08:37 AM - Re: Melted wire (beltz6)
2. 08:50 AM - Re: Melted wire (beltz6)
3. 11:29 AM - Re: Melted wire (Gary Vogt)
4. 11:30 AM - Re: Melted wire (grumpyparts)
5. 11:31 AM - Re: Melted wire (Gary Vogt)
6. 12:36 PM - Re: Melted wire (Bob Steward)
7. 12:53 PM - Re: Melted wire (beltz6)
8. 06:15 PM - Re: Melted wire (Gary Vogt)
9. 07:45 PM - Re: Melted wire (n76lima@mindspring.com)
10. 10:44 PM - Re: Champion SB on 4 & 6 cylinder Slick Mags (Gary L Vogt)
Message 1
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n76lima(at)mindspring.com wrote:
> I found 51PA4 wire code for the ground from the battery side of the Master Switch
to the airframe ground on the 70's Tigers and Cheetahs. This is a ~6" long
segment of plain, unshielded wire with a 1/4" female spade terminal at the Master
and a #6 ring terminal on the other end that grounds to the honeycomb with
a #4 sheet metal screw.
> The normal convention is that each segment in a circuit has the next # as the
last digit.
> So there SHOULD be 3 previous segments in this circuit. There are not.
> What does your 51PA3 connect to?
> --Bob Steward
I think MAYBE Gary meant 5PA3, not 51PA3 (??). It's the one that connects the
battery solenoid to the battery side of the master switch.
Yeah, it's my plane that smoked up and started this thread :-/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383829#383829
Message 2
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Here are some pics of various segments of the wire in question that was removed:
http://i.imgur.com/kBcmw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lSQGa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cNPxn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/SuYSu.jpg
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383830#383830
Message 3
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no, the plastic shield, insulation, whatever, was melted. -it goes from t
he battery relay to the master. -it's the ground wire. -it got VERY hot
drawing .7 amps.=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Bob
Steward <n76lima@mindspring.com>=0ATo: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com =0ASe
nt: Saturday, September 22, 2012 9:35 PM=0ASubject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: M
ma@mindspring.com>=0A=0AYou're saying that this is a shielded GROUND wire?
=0AHaven't had a chance to look at the manual schematics to see what circui
t 51PA3 is part of.=0ACan't imagine the need for a shielded ground (except
=========================0A
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Adm
=====
Message 4
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The 51 indicated it was used on the AA1 as well as AA5. I assume this cable was
taken from a late model AA5 after the AA1 line was closed.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383851#383851
Message 5
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look on my wiring diagram. -it's marked 5PA3 since it is one of the origi
nal 5 series wires. -in the plane it's marked 51PA3=0A=0A=0A_____________
___________________=0A From: Bob Steward <n76lima@mindspring.com>=0ATo: tea
mgrumman-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 9:50 PM
=0ASubject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Melted wire=0A =0A--> TeamGrumman-List me
ssage posted by: Bob Steward <n76lima@mindspring.com>=0A=0AGary has me stir
red up over this.=0AN200FW canopy plastic looks very nice, if I do say so m
yself!=0A--Bob=0A=0AFrank Sundram <radiohound@AOL.COM> wrote:=0A=0A>--> Tea
mGrumman-List message posted by: Frank Sundram <radiohound@aol.com>=0A>=0A>
Go to sleep, bob, day of rest and all.=0A>=0A>Restful Woofs from the boys
=0A>=0A>Frank=0A>850-819-1666=0A>=0A>On Sep 22, 2012, at 11:35 PM, Bob Stew
ard <n76lima@mindspring.com> wrote:=0A>=0A>> --> TeamGrumman-List message p
osted by: Bob Steward <n76lima@mindspring.com>=0A>> =0A>> You're saying tha
t this is a shielded GROUND wire?=0A>> Haven't had a chance to look at the
manual schematics to see what circuit 51PA3 is part of.=0A>> Can't imagine
the need for a shielded ground (except the P-leads).=0A>> --Bob Steward=0A>
===========
Message 6
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This STILL makes no sense. The Master Relay resistance is ~15 ohms. So the current
should be in the 0.8 amps, and the energy dissipated is ~9.6 watts.
Certainly not enough to heat the wire.
So SOMETHING is causing a dead short from Master Solenoid to ground. I'd be checking
the Master Solenoid for some sort of internal short.
That is unless someone has improperly replaced the Continuous Duty Master Solenoid
with an Intermittent Duty Starter Solenoid...
That would mean a ~6 amp draw, dissipating 72 watts!
Your ammeter reading would suggest otherwise.
--Bob Steward
Birmingham, AL
Message 7
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n76lima(at)mindspring.com wrote:
> This STILL makes no sense. The Master Relay resistance is ~15 ohms. So the
current should be in the 0.8 amps, and the energy dissipated is ~9.6 watts.
> Certainly not enough to heat the wire.
> So SOMETHING is causing a dead short from Master Solenoid to ground. I'd be
checking the Master Solenoid for some sort of internal short.
> That is unless someone has improperly replaced the Continuous Duty Master Solenoid
with an Intermittent Duty Starter Solenoid...
> That would mean a ~6 amp draw, dissipating 72 watts!
> Your ammeter reading would suggest otherwise.
> --Bob Steward
> Birmingham, AL
Someone where I work has a wrap-around ammeter. I'm going to check that wire again
to make sure it's carrying in the .6-.7 amp ballpark.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383856#383856
Message 8
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IF there is a significant corrosion in the areas where the plastic shield i
s, would there be enough resistance to make the wire heat more?=0A=0AI repl
aced the entire wire with #18 wire.=0A=0A=0A_______________________________
_=0A From: Bob Steward <n76lima@mindspring.com>=0ATo: teamgrumman-list@matr
onics.com =0ASent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 12:35 PM=0ASubject: Re: TeamG
Steward <n76lima@mindspring.com>=0A=0AThis STILL makes no sense.- The Mas
ter Relay resistance is ~15 ohms.- So the current should be in the 0.8 am
ps, and the energy dissipated is ~9.6 watts.=0ACertainly not enough to heat
the wire.=0ASo SOMETHING is causing a dead short from Master Solenoid to g
round.- I'd be checking the Master Solenoid for some sort of internal sho
rt.=0AThat is unless someone has improperly replaced the Continuous Duty Ma
ster Solenoid with an Intermittent Duty Starter Solenoid...=0AThat would me
an a ~6 amp draw, dissipating 72 watts!=0AYour ammeter reading would sugges
===========
Message 9
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[Gary] IF there is a significant corrosion in the areas where the plastic shield
is, would there be enough resistance to make the wire heat more? I replaced
the entire wire with #18 wire.
The problem is that the power is applied to the coil internally in the Master Relay,
and then this wire is a GROUND. A #2 gauge jumper cable would not carry
anymore current than the OEM wire, because the limiting resistance is at the
SOURCE (power goes through the positive cable to the Master Relay, and then to
the coil internally, and finally to a ground via the wire in question). One
can't really lower the resistance of the circuit by fiddling with the ground wire.
One can INCREASE the resistance, and thereby lessen the current, but no
way to externally to the Master Relay LOWER the resistance. So "corrosion" on
the wire would have no effect at increasing the current enough to heat it. I
suppose if enough strands were corroded through that the current of ~0.8 amps
would heat the wire locally, but the insulation would have to be off and the
corrosion damage happen BEFORE the heating, and since the supposition is that
the wire got hot FIRST, damaging the insulation, which could then lead to the
corrosion and the narrowing of the wire, the chain is completely backwards. And
after the FIRST area was damaged (by whatever means), then no further damage
could occur down stream, since the current would now be even MORE limited by
the increased resistance at the first site damaged on the wire.
With several areas of damage, and wide spread lengths of heating, this is NOT a
localized problem of the wire losing a few strands to corrosion.
Hence my suggestion that someone had replaced the Master Relay with a Starter Relay,
or that the relay had some sort of internal fault that was shorting power
to ground that did not go through the 15 ohm coil.
--Bob Steward
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Champion SB on 4 & 6 cylinder Slick Mags |
One of my customers replaced his mags last month. One of them is affected by this.
Gary
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 21, 2012, at 8:34 PM, "discover" <923te@att.net> wrote:
>
> https://www.championaerospacepubs.com/docs/F-1100-SB1-12.pdf
>
> You guys gotten this one yet?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383758#383758
>
>
>
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>
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