Today's Message Index:
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1. 05:08 AM - =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFRlYW1HcnVtbWFuLUxpc3Q6IFJlOiBUZWFtR3J1bW1hbi1MaXN0OiBUaGlz?= =?utf-8?B?IGlzIGZvciB5b3UgTmVk? (=?utf-8?B?bjJfbmFyY29zaXNAeWFob28uY29t?=)
2. 05:09 AM - Auto Response (A. Dennis Savarese)
3. 05:12 AM - =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFRlYW1HcnVtbWFuLUxpc3Q6IFJlOiBUZWFtR3J1bW1hbi1MaXN0OiBUaGlz?= =?utf-8?B?IGlzIGZvciB5b3UgTmVk? (=?utf-8?B?bjJfbmFyY29zaXNAeWFob28uY29t?=)
4. 06:20 AM - Label Printer (923TE)
5. 06:53 AM - Re: Label Printer (FLYaDIVE)
6. 07:31 AM - Re: This is for you Ned -CNG in a Grumman (n76lima@mindspring.com)
7. 07:59 AM - Re: Re: This is for you Ned -CNG in a Grumman (FLYaDIVE)
8. 08:25 AM - Re: Re: This is for you Ned -CNG in a Grumman (Bob Steward)
9. 08:45 AM - =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFRlYW1HcnVtbWFuLUxpc3Q6IFJlOiBUaGlzIGlzIGZvciB5b3UgTmVkIC1D?= =?utf-8?B?TkcgaW4gYSBHcnVtbWFu? (=?utf-8?B?bjJfbmFyY29zaXNAeWFob28uY29t?=)
10. 08:46 AM - CNG in a Grumman (923TE)
11. 08:48 AM - =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFRlYW1HcnVtbWFuLUxpc3Q6IFJlOiBUaGlzIGlzIGZvciB5b3UgTmVkIC1D?= =?utf-8?B?TkcgaW4gYSBHcnVtbWFu? (=?utf-8?B?bjJfbmFyY29zaXNAeWFob28uY29t?=)
12. 08:50 AM - Re: Label Printer (923TE)
13. 10:06 AM - Re: Re: Re: This is for you Ned -CNG in a Grumman (923TE)
14. 11:28 AM - Re: Re: This is for you Ned (Gary Vogt)
15. 12:21 PM - Re: Label Printer (Gary Vogt)
16. 09:37 PM - =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFRlYW1HcnVtbWFuLUxpc3Q6IFJlOiBUZWFtR3J1bW1hbi1MaXN0OiBUaGlz?= =?utf-8?B?IGlzIGZvciB5b3UgTmVk? (=?utf-8?B?bjJfbmFyY29zaXNAeWFob28uY29t?=)
Message 1
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Subject: | =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFRlYW1HcnVtbWFuLUxpc3Q6IFJlOiBUZWFtR3J1bW1hbi1MaXN0OiBUaGlz?= |
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Message 2
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I am away for the Thanksgiving holiday weekend and will have very limited access
to emails. I will reply to your email as soon as possible or definitely when
I return. I hope you and your family have a very blessed Thanksgiving. We have
much to be thankful for. And don't forget to thank our men and women in uniform,
both past and present, for their service to our country.
Warm regards,
Dennis
Message 3
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Message 4
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http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16828113347
Only $10
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Label Printer |
Thanks for the post.
For $12.82 including 2 day shipping I'm willing to take a chance.
If it does want I require - Especially since it is computer driven with
Font & Size control I will be VERY impressed. I'll give a report ASAP.
Barry
On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 9:19 AM, 923TE <923te@att.net> wrote:
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16828113347
>
> Only $10
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: This is for you Ned -CNG in a Grumman |
>Hey Ned,
>We should play around with putting a bottle in your 9. Don't know how we could
fill it though.
>Brock
>Yes Norman even has gas for $1.40 per gallon. It's natural gas and has an octane
of around 120. It work very well in my >pickup. Wish my Tiger could use it.
Perhaps you could work on pressurizing the spar tube? <G>
With the size and weight of the 12 and 15 GGE tanks that I've seen, you MIGHT be
able to install one in the baggage compartment area. But who wants a "bomb"
with 3600 PSI explosive gas right behind you?
And given the fuel consumption of a Tiger, we are talking 1 hour and 1:15 endurance
with the 12 and 15 GGE tanks, before being wheels-on-the-pavement!
I've looked at CNG for my pickup, too. It is $1.25/GGE at the local bus terminal,
but that is a 15 mile round trip from my home, and the tank takes up a goodly
portion of the 8' bed of the truck, so it just isn't all that practical for
me, even if the CNG conversion was free (and its NOT).
I understand that Ned had one of those "Phill" compressors at home and could re-charge the tank overnight off the gas service at his house. That would help with the inconvenience of travel to fill the tank. But adds a whole 'nother level of cost to the cost/benefit calculation. http://www.cngcivic.com/www.cngcivic.html
--Bob Steward
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: This is for you Ned -CNG in a Grumman |
CNG... How compressed is that? Is that the 3600 PSI?
WOW That is as much and more than a SCUBA tank.
So, why not LCNG... Is there such a thing? Liquefied Compressed Natural
Gas? That should be at a much lower pressure. Be very close in weight to
AvGas. And the expansion would be way over 50:1
That could be possible. ?
Think of the 312 pounds of LCNG with a 50:1 expansion AND the
fuel distribution would be equal in all cylinders. How much would the
tanks weigh?
Barry
On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 10:31 AM, <n76lima@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> >Hey Ned,
> >We should play around with putting a bottle in your 9. Don't know how we
> could fill it though.
> >Brock
>
> >Yes Norman even has gas for $1.40 per gallon. It's natural gas and has an
> octane of around 120. It work very well in my >pickup. Wish my Tiger could
> use it.
>
> Perhaps you could work on pressurizing the spar tube? <G>
>
> With the size and weight of the 12 and 15 GGE tanks that I've seen, you
> MIGHT be able to install one in the baggage compartment area. But who
> wants a "bomb" with 3600 PSI explosive gas right behind you?
>
> And given the fuel consumption of a Tiger, we are talking 1 hour and 1:15
> endurance with the 12 and 15 GGE tanks, before being wheels-on-the-pavement!
>
> I've looked at CNG for my pickup, too. It is $1.25/GGE at the local bus
> terminal, but that is a 15 mile round trip from my home, and the tank takes
> up a goodly portion of the 8' bed of the truck, so it just isn't all that
> practical for me, even if the CNG conversion was free (and its NOT).
>
> I understand that Ned had one of those "Phill" compressors at home and
> could re-charge the tank overnight off the gas service at his house. That
> would help with the inconvenience of travel to fill the tank. But adds a
> whole 'nother level of cost to the cost/benefit calculation.
> http://www.cngcivic.com/www.cngcivic.html
>
> --Bob Steward
>
>
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Subject: | Re: This is for you Ned -CNG in a Grumman |
It is called LNG, and it is stored in insulated tanks at cryogenic temps. (-260F)
The energy density is ~70% that of gasoline on a per gallon basis.
As Ned mentioned, NG has an "octane" of well over 100.
In addition, a liquid introduced into the induction air would boil to vapor and
suck the heat out of the air, lowering the density altitude of the combustion
air enough to give a significant performance boost.
Talk about latent heat of vaporization...
--Bob Steward
FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
>CNG... How compressed is that? Is that the 3600 PSI?
>WOW That is as much and more than a SCUBA tank.
>So, why not LCNG... Is there such a thing? Liquefied Compressed Natural
>Gas? That should be at a much lower pressure. Be very close in weight to
>AvGas. And the expansion would be way over 50:1
>That could be possible. ?
>Think of the 312 pounds of LCNG with a 50:1 expansion AND the
>fuel distribution would be equal in all cylinders. How much would the
>tanks weigh?
>
>Barry
>
>On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 10:31 AM, <n76lima@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> >Hey Ned,
>> >We should play around with putting a bottle in your 9. Don't know how we
>> could fill it though.
>> >Brock
>>
>> >Yes Norman even has gas for $1.40 per gallon. It's natural gas and has an
>> octane of around 120. It work very well in my >pickup. Wish my Tiger could
>> use it.
>>
>> Perhaps you could work on pressurizing the spar tube? <G>
>>
>> With the size and weight of the 12 and 15 GGE tanks that I've seen, you
>> MIGHT be able to install one in the baggage compartment area. But who
>> wants a "bomb" with 3600 PSI explosive gas right behind you?
>>
>> And given the fuel consumption of a Tiger, we are talking 1 hour and 1:15
>> endurance with the 12 and 15 GGE tanks, before being wheels-on-the-pavement!
>>
>> I've looked at CNG for my pickup, too. It is $1.25/GGE at the local bus
>> terminal, but that is a 15 mile round trip from my home, and the tank takes
>> up a goodly portion of the 8' bed of the truck, so it just isn't all that
>> practical for me, even if the CNG conversion was free (and its NOT).
>>
>> I understand that Ned had one of those "Phill" compressors at home and
>> could re-charge the tank overnight off the gas service at his house. That
>> would help with the inconvenience of travel to fill the tank. But adds a
>> whole 'nother level of cost to the cost/benefit calculation.
>> http://www.cngcivic.com/www.cngcivic.html
>>
>> --Bob Steward
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 9
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CgoK
Message 10
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Subject: | CNG in a Grumman |
1) Its cheaper
For far less than putting in a 100LL Fuel Supply one could put something like this
for under $4000
I picked up one of these a few years ago before prices went up
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FuelMaker-BRC-CNG-Compressor-Refueling-Station-New-/180832199725?hash=item2a1a70642d&item=180832199725&pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&vxp=mtr
Refueling at home is hard to beat. The cost is currently around $0.55 g eq compared
to $1.40.
I'd I moved my pump to the airport it would be the $0.55 price
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNG-Refueling-Compressor-DMC-3-200-3-0Nm3-h-/260719833144
2) It's Safer - the idea that cng is explosive is not warranted. It is much less
"explosive" than 100LL
http://www.wisegasinc.com/wg-cylindersafety.htm
Note that the tanks are pretty much all that survive the crashes
3) Some of he new carbon fiber tanks are very light. Like 12.8 kg or 28 lbs for
one here
http://www.ragasco.com/sitefiles/3004/Brochures/CNG_TechSpec_2Pages_small.pdf
4) It's greener than anything else on the planet.....
An hour flight using 10 gallons for $5.50 might make me fly more often!
Like in my truck the change back to 100LL would be automatic and works smoothly.
So you just run out of cng and auto switch to 100LL
Someday liquified natural gas will be available. That is the best way to go. The
Russians were flying it years ago
http://www.tupolev.ru/English/Show.asp?SectionID=123
Ned
On Nov 22, 2012, at 9:31 AM, n76lima@mindspring.com wrote:
> Hey Ned,
> We should play around with putting a bottle in your 9. Don't know how we could
fill it though.
> Brock
> Yes Norman even has gas for $1.40 per gallon. It's natural gas and has an octane
of around 120. It work very well in my >pickup. Wish my Tiger could use it.
Perhaps you could work on pressurizing the spar tube? <G>
With the size and weight of the 12 and 15 GGE tanks that I've seen, you MIGHT be
able to install one in the baggage compartment area. But who wants a "bomb"
with 3600 PSI explosive gas right behind you?
And given the fuel consumption of a Tiger, we are talking 1 hour and 1:15 endurance
with the 12 and 15 GGE tanks, before being wheels-on-the-pavement!
I've looked at CNG for my pickup, too. It is $1.25/GGE at the local bus terminal,
but that is a 15 mile round trip from my home, and the tank takes up a goodly
portion of the 8' bed of the truck, so it just isn't all that practical for
me, even if the CNG conversion was free (and its NOT).
I understand that Ned had one of those "Phill" compressors at home and could re-charge the tank overnight off the gas service at his house. That would help with the inconvenience of travel to fill the tank. But adds a whole 'nother level of cost to the cost/benefit calculation. http://www.cngcivic.com/www.cngcivic.html
--Bob Steward
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Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Label Printer |
I think this is a one day sale. May be thru Friday
Today is Neweggs black Friday printer sale
On Nov 22, 2012, at 8:53 AM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for the post.
For $12.82 including 2 day shipping I'm willing to take a chance.
If it does want I require - Especially since it is computer driven with Font
& Size control I will be VERY impressed. I'll give a report ASAP.
Barry
On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 9:19 AM, 923TE <923te@att.net> wrote:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16828113347
Only $10
="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 13
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Subject: | Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: This is for you Ned -CNG |
in a Grumman
You can get LPG for $1.68 nearby our airport. Older proven technology and he
avier than air but its doable......No need for evacuated double walled tanks
http://mobile.altfuelprices.com/address_mobile.php?id=3005&lat=35.141179
0&lng=-97.4769773&fuel_type=16&address=Goldsby,%20ok&start=0
On Nov 22, 2012, at 10:48 AM, "n2_narcosis@yahoo.com" <n2_narcosis@yahoo.com
> wrote:
Well, its just LNG. The problem is its cryogenic. You have to have an evacua
ted dewar to hold the liquid since room temp is above the critical temp of m
ethane. It's expansion is closer to 400 :1 I believe. That could be for nitr
ogen I can't remember. Anyway it requires a fairy large double walled tank w
ith a vacuum between the walls.
=46rom my HTC Sensation 4G on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network
----- Reply message -----
From: "FLYaDIVE" <flyadive@gmail.com>
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: This is for you Ned -CNG in a Grumman
CNG... How compressed is that? Is that the 3600 PSI?
WOW That is as much and more than a SCUBA tank.
So, why not LCNG... Is there such a thing? Liquefied Compressed Natural Gas
? That should be at a much lower pressure. Be very close in weight to AvGa
s. And the expansion would be way over 50:1
That could be possible. ?
Think of the 312 pounds of LCNG with a 50:1 expansion AND the fuel distribut
ion would be equal in all cylinders. How much would the tanks weigh?
Barry
On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 10:31 AM, <n76lima@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Hey Ned,
>We should play around with putting a bottle in your 9. Don't know how we co
uld fill it though.
>Brock
>Yes Norman even has gas for $1.40 per gallon. It's natural gas and has an o
ctane of around 120. It work very well in my >pickup. Wish my Tiger could us
e it.
Perhaps you could work on pressurizing the spar tube? <G>
With the size and weight of the 12 and 15 GGE tanks that I've seen, you MIGH
T be able to install one in the baggage compartment area. But who wants a "
bomb" with 3600 PSI explosive gas right behind you?
And given the fuel consumption of a Tiger, we are talking 1 hour and 1:15 en
durance with the 12 and 15 GGE tanks, before being wheels-on-the-pavement!
I've looked at CNG for my pickup, too. It is $1.25/GGE at the local bus ter
minal, but that is a 15 mile round trip from my home, and the tank takes up a
goodly portion of the 8' bed of the truck, so it just isn't all that practi
cal for me, even if the CNG conversion was free (and its NOT).
I understand that Ned had one of those "Phill" compressors at home and could
re-charge the tank overnight off the gas service at his house. That would h
elp with the inconvenience of travel to fill the tank. But adds a whole 'no
ther level of cost to the cost/benefit calculation. http://www.cngcivic.com
/www.cngcivic.html
--Bob Steward
="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 14
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Subject: | Re: TeamGrumman-List: This is for you Ned |
Barry is chopped liver. =C2-=0A=0AI didn't know you lived in Norman, OK.
=C2-Next time through we'll stop and visit you too.=0A=0AGary and Clytie
=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: "n2_narcosis@yahoo.com"
<n2_narcosis@yahoo.com>=0ATo: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Wedne
sday, November 21, 2012 1:53 AM=0ASubject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: TeamGrumma
n-List: This is for you Ned=0A =0A=0AWHAT AM I, chopped liver? =C2-It's f
or me too! I love living in the 2nd cheapest city. =C2-Fits a Grumman own
er perfectly.=0A=0ABrock=0A=0AFrom my HTC Sensation 4G on T-Mobile. The fir
st nationwide 4G network=0A=0A=0A----- Reply message -----=0AFrom: "Gary Vo
gt" <teamgrumman@yahoo.com>=0ATo: "Teamgrumman List" <teamgrumman-list@matr
onics.com>=0ASubject: TeamGrumman-List: This is for you Ned=0ADate: Tue, No
v 20, 2012 12:05 pm=0A=0A=0A=0A2. Norman, Okla. (most affordable cities in
America)=0ALocated just 20 miles south of Oklahoma City, Norman is the stat
e=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s third-largest city and home to the National Weat
her Center. The cost of living is 80.9 percent of the national average.=0AN
orman also offers near rock-bottom prices for the following:=0AHamburger (M
cDonald's Quarter Pounder): $3.25=C2-=0AShampoo (15 oz. bottle): $0.80=C2
-=0ANewspaper (daily and Sunday subscription): $9.00/year=C2-=0ABeer (s
= =C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9Eg(=93=C5-=C3
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Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Label Printer |
can't beat the price, that's for sure.=0A=0A=0A____________________________
____=0A From: 923TE <923te@att.net>=0ATo: "teamgrumman-list@matronics.com"
<teamgrumman-list@matronics.com> =0ASent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 7:19
AM=0ASubject: TeamGrumman-List: Label Printer=0A =0A--> TeamGrumman-List me
ssage posted by: 923TE <923te@att.net>=0A=0Ahttp://www.newegg.com/Product/P
====================
Message 16
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