Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 10:03 AM - Contributions Down By 23%... (Matt Dralle)
1. 10:15 AM - Jaguar Cowling update (Gary Vogt)
2. 10:21 PM - Re: Contributions Down By 23%... (Mel Beckman)
3. 10:57 PM - Re: Contributions Down By 23%... (Gary L Vogt)
4. 11:25 PM - Re: Contributions Down By 23%... (Mel Beckman)
Message 0
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| Subject: | Contributions Down By 23%... |
Dear Listers,
As of today, Contributions to the Matronics List Fund Raiser are lagging behind
last year at this time by roughly 23%. I have a Fund Raiser each year simply
to cover my operating
costs for the Lists. I *do not* accept any advertising income to support the Lists
and rely solely on the Contributions of members to keep the expenses paid.
I run all of my own servers and they are housed here locally, and the Internet
connection is a commercial-grade, dual T1 connection with public address space.
I also maintain a full
backup system that does nightly backups of all List-related data so that in the
event of a server crash, all of the Lists and the many years of List archive
data could be restored
onto a new server in a matter of hours.
All of this costs a fair amount of money, not to mention a significant amount of
my personal time. I have a Fund Raiser each year to cover these costs and I
ask that members that
feel they receive a benefit from my investments make a modest Contribution each
year to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services.
If you enjoy the Lists, please make a Contribution today. I also offer some incentive
gifts for larger Contribution levels. At the Contribution Web Site, you
can use a credit card,
Paypal, or personal check to show your support for the continuation of these services:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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| Subject: | Jaguar Cowling update |
As of today,-=0A=0AThese are the Tiger owners taking advantage of the cur
rent Jaguar cowling prices before the price goes up.=0A=0A1. Bob Weiss=0A2.
Ray Owen=0A3. Bill Stigile=0A4. Bobby Denham* (waiting on a deposit)=0A5.
=0A6.=0A=0A=0ARay is getting a pre-fitted cowling, ready to install rivets,
final finish and paint for $9230. -That is a savings of $2,199 over the
new price as of next week.=0ABob, Bill, and Bobby will be getting their cow
ling installed and painted white for $11,000. -That is a savings of $2,44
9 over the new price.=0A=0ASign up today, and if I get 4 committed buyers,
with deposits, by December 1, 2012, I'll extend the sale to the end of the
year. -Plus, if I get 6 orders by the end of the year, I'll install them
all here in Auburn for $10,000. -That is a savings of $3,449. -$10,000
installed price, includes painting white (no stripes) and is a savings of 2
5.6%
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Contributions Down By 23%... |
I'm an ISP infrastructure engineer, so I understand your desire to
maintain your own servers and commercial Internet connection. However,
for a mailing list such as TeamGrumman, I think it's simply not cost
effective to do this. There are so many excellent free mailing list
services, much more functional than the software you use for
TeamGrumman. You mention the significant amount of personal time you
have to spend maintaining your infrastructure. Pushing the list to a
service would cut that time requirement way down.
For example, GMane.org's free mail archiving service is an
email-to-archive gateway similar to what you have now, but with infinite
Web archive browsing and searching (instead of just 7 days), RSS feeds,
realtime indexing and extensive spam filtering. You can have a moderated
list, with closed or moderated posting, and it even supports Usenet news
readers.
There are many other similar free services.
I totally get your desire to run your own boxes and control everything
yourself. But that's a separate hobby from TeamGrumman. Since it is
possible for you to run a higher quality list for free on one of these
other services, it doesn't seem practical for you to expect donations
for the cost of your own mini datacenter. By going to a high volume
service, you'd gain valuable personal time and subscribers would gain
some useful features, such as RSS feeds and complex searches.
-mel
On Nov 26, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Matt Dralle wrote:
<dralle@matronics.com>
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> As of today, Contributions to the Matronics List Fund Raiser are
lagging behind last year at this time by roughly 23%. I have a Fund
Raiser each year simply to cover my operating
> costs for the Lists. I *do not* accept any advertising income to
support the Lists and rely solely on the Contributions of members to
keep the expenses paid.
>
> I run all of my own servers and they are housed here locally, and the
Internet connection is a commercial-grade, dual T1 connection with
public address space. I also maintain a full
> backup system that does nightly backups of all List-related data so
that in the event of a server crash, all of the Lists and the many years
of List archive data could be restored
> onto a new server in a matter of hours.
>
> All of this costs a fair amount of money, not to mention a significant
amount of my personal time. I have a Fund Raiser each year to cover
these costs and I ask that members that
> feel they receive a benefit from my investments make a modest
Contribution each year to support the continued operation and upgrade of
these services.
>
> If you enjoy the Lists, please make a Contribution today. I also
offer some incentive gifts for larger Contribution levels. At the
Contribution Web Site, you can use a credit card,
> Paypal, or personal check to show your support for the continuation of
these services:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
>
> Matt Dralle / Matronics
> 581 Jeannie Way
> Livermore CA 94550
>
> Thank you for your support!
>
> Matt Dralle
> Matronics Email List Administrator
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Contributions Down By 23%... |
This is not my service. Matte Dralle runs a lot of lists. This is just one o
f them.
Thanks for your concern, but, really it isn't an issue.
Gary
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 26, 2012, at 10:20 PM, Mel Beckman <mel@becknet.com> wrote:
> I'm an ISP infrastructure engineer, so I understand your desire to mainta
in your own servers and commercial Internet connection. However, for a maili
ng list such as TeamGrumman, I think it's simply not cost effective to do th
is. There are so many excellent free mailing list services, much more functi
onal than the software you use for TeamGrumman. You mention the significant a
mount of personal time you have to spend maintaining your infrastructure. Pu
shing the list to a service would cut that time requirement way down.
>
> For example, GMane.org's free mail archiving service is an email-to-archiv
e gateway similar to what you have now, but with infinite Web archive browsi
ng and searching (instead of just 7 days), RSS feeds, realtime indexing and e
xtensive spam filtering. You can have a moderated list, with closed or moder
ated posting, and it even supports Usenet news readers.
>
> There are many other similar free services.
>
> I totally get your desire to run your own boxes and control everything you
rself. But that's a separate hobby from TeamGrumman. Since it is possible fo
r you to run a higher quality list for free on one of these other services, i
t doesn't seem practical for you to expect donations for the cost of your ow
n mini datacenter. By going to a high volume service, you'd gain valuable pe
rsonal time and subscribers would gain some useful features, such as RSS fee
ds and complex searches.
>
> -mel
>
> On Nov 26, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Dear Listers,
>>
>> As of today, Contributions to the Matronics List Fund Raiser are lagging b
ehind last year at this time by roughly 23%. I have a Fund Raiser each year
simply to cover my operating
>> costs for the Lists. I *do not* accept any advertising income to support
the Lists and rely solely on the Contributions of members to keep the expen
ses paid.
>>
>> I run all of my own servers and they are housed here locally, and the Int
ernet connection is a commercial-grade, dual T1 connection with public addre
ss space. I also maintain a full
>> backup system that does nightly backups of all List-related data so that i
n the event of a server crash, all of the Lists and the many years of List a
rchive data could be restored
>> onto a new server in a matter of hours.
>>
>> All of this costs a fair amount of money, not to mention a significant am
ount of my personal time. I have a Fund Raiser each year to cover these cos
ts and I ask that members that
>> feel they receive a benefit from my investments make a modest Contributio
n each year to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services
.
>>
>> If you enjoy the Lists, please make a Contribution today. I also offer s
ome incentive gifts for larger Contribution levels. At the Contribution Web
Site, you can use a credit card,
>> Paypal, or personal check to show your support for the continuation of th
ese services:
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
>>
>> Matt Dralle / Matronics
>> 581 Jeannie Way
>> Livermore CA 94550
>>
>> Thank you for your support!
>>
>> Matt Dralle
>> Matronics Email List -= -- Please Support Your Lists (A
nd Get AeroElectric http://www.matronics.com/co -
Matt Dralle, List - The --> http://www.ma &n====
========
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Contributions Down By 23%... |
Gary,
I realize this isn't your service. But I wasn't addressing you. I was
replying to Matt's email requesting donations for maintaining
TeamGrumman and his other many lists. Donations are an issue today since
they're declining, as Matt points out. I don't want to see TeamGrumman
or any of the other lists go away due to unmet operational costs.
Donations won't be as much of an issue if Matt hosts his lists for free,
with higher quality and reliability, using one of the services I
describe.
Two Internet T1s cost at least several hundred dollars per month,
because unlike asymmetrical DSL or cable Internet (which has faster
download than upload), T1's have the same 1.5 Mbps each up and down.
That upload bandwidth is necessary to delivery continuous streams of
mailing list messages to subscribers. It's an expense that goes away
with a free list service.
Matt's T1s, while expensive, are not as reliable as the free bandwidth
available to free list sites, which typically are located at backbone
data centers with gigabits of upstream connectivity. So while lowering
costs, Matt also gains resilience.
You need at least two server-class computers for reliable on-site
application hosting, and I suspect Matt has many more than two. Each
costs thousands of dollars to purchase and maintain. Those costs also
drop dramatically with outside list hosting, since lists can be
maintained from an ordinary desktop computer.
With offsite list hosting, the only cost to Matt is his time. I dearly
appreciate his generous contribution of labor to the current
infrastructure. With offsite hosting, Matt gets a huge amount of that
time back.
it's certainly fair for Matt to request donations for his labor. Offsite
hosting seems to me an attractive solution to the declining donations.
I've seen offsite hosting of all kinds of applications work for many of
my clients too. It's a time-tested option.
-mel
On Nov 26, 2012, at 10:58 PM, Gary L Vogt wrote:
> This is not my service. Matte Dralle runs a lot of lists. This is just
one of them.
>
> Thanks for your concern, but, really it isn't an issue.
>
> Gary
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 26, 2012, at 10:20 PM, Mel Beckman <mel@becknet.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm an ISP infrastructure engineer, so I understand your desire to
maintain your own servers and commercial Internet connection. However,
for a mailing list such as TeamGrumman, I think it's simply not cost
effective to do this. There are so many excellent free mailing list
services, much more functional than the software you use for
TeamGrumman. You mention the significant amount of personal time you
have to spend maintaining your infrastructure. Pushing the list to a
service would cut that time requirement way down.
>>
>> For example, GMane.org's free mail archiving service is an
email-to-archive gateway similar to what you have now, but with infinite
Web archive browsing and searching (instead of just 7 days), RSS feeds,
realtime indexing and extensive spam filtering. You can have a moderated
list, with closed or moderated posting, and it even supports Usenet news
readers.
>>
>> There are many other similar free services.
>>
>> I totally get your desire to run your own boxes and control
everything yourself. But that's a separate hobby from TeamGrumman. Since
it is possible for you to run a higher quality list for free on one of
these other services, it doesn't seem practical for you to expect
donations for the cost of your own mini datacenter. By going to a high
volume service, you'd gain valuable personal time and subscribers would
gain some useful features, such as RSS feeds and complex searches.
>>
>> -mel
>>
>> On Nov 26, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Matt Dralle wrote:
>>
<dralle@matronics.com>
>>>
>>> Dear Listers,
>>>
>>> As of today, Contributions to the Matronics List Fund Raiser are
lagging behind last year at this time by roughly 23%. I have a Fund
Raiser each year simply to cover my operating
>>> costs for the Lists. I *do not* accept any advertising income to
support the Lists and rely solely on the Contributions of members to
keep the expenses paid.
>>>
>>> I run all of my own servers and they are housed here locally, and
the Internet connection is a commercial-grade, dual T1 connection with
public address space. I also maintain a full
>>> backup system that does nightly backups of all List-related data so
that in the event of a server crash, all of the Lists and the many years
of List archive data could be restored
>>> onto a new server in a matter of hours.
>>>
>>> All of this costs a fair amount of money, not to mention a
significant amount of my personal time. I have a Fund Raiser each year
to cover these costs and I ask that members that
>>> feel they receive a benefit from my investments make a modest
Contribution each year to support the continued operation and upgrade of
these services.
>>>
>>> If you enjoy the Lists, please make a Contribution today. I also
offer some incentive gifts for larger Contribution levels. At the
Contribution Web Site, you can use a credit card,
>>> Paypal, or personal check to show your support for the continuation
of these services:
>>>
>>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
>>> Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
>>>
>>> Matt Dralle / Matronics
>>> 581 Jeannie Way
>>> Livermore CA 94550
>>>
>>> Thank you for your support!
>>>
>>> Matt Dralle
>>> Matronics Email List -= -- Please Support Your Lists
(And Get AeroElectric http://www.matronics.com/co
-Matt Dralle, List - The --> http://www.ma
&n============
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ========================
>> " face="courier new,courier">www.aeroelectric.com
>> >www.buildersbooks.com
>> uilthelp.com
>> matronics.com/contribution
>> ========================
>> t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
>> ========================
>> cs.com
>> ========================
>>
>
>
>
>
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