Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 09:53 AM - Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Coming in December! (Matt Dralle)
1. 07:20 AM - McCauley Prop Available (A. Dennis Savarese)
2. 08:58 AM - Re: Contributions Down By 23%... (Dj Merrill)
3. 11:29 AM - Re: Contributions Down By 23%... (Jim Starkey)
4. 11:47 AM - Re: Contributions Down By 23%... (Mel Beckman)
5. 01:38 PM - Running The Lists, Local vs. Free/Remote... (Matt Dralle)
6. 01:45 PM - Re: Contributions Down By 23%... (Dj Merrill)
7. 02:03 PM - Re: Running The Lists, Local vs. Free/Remote... (Mel Beckman)
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| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Coming |
in December!
Dear Listers,
There's just a couple more days left in this year's List Fund Raiser and that means
the List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I
post a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the
Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their
appreciation for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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| Subject: | McCauley Prop Available |
I am replacing the prop on my AA1B with an STC'd Sensenich prop. The
model is a 1A105SCM7153. If interested, please contact me off-list.
Email and phone numbers are below.
Thanks
Dennis
--
A. Dennis Savarese
dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Contributions Down By 23%... |
Hi Mel,
Just an fyi, but Matt isn't likely to read your message. Although he
maintains the lists, he does not read all of them. If you want to get
in touch with him, I recommend sending directly to his email address
rather than to the list, which is dralle@matronics.com.
For what it is worth, I also maintain a set of aviation forums (email
and web interfaces) using my own equipment and paying for it completely
out of my own pocket. I don't ask for donations, and I do not have any
advertising. Computer equipment costs are quite cheap as long as you
aren't buying the latest and greatest.
Although the "free" mailing lists do provide a nice service, I disagree
that they are a replacement for being able to implement and support them
myself.
I suspect if Matt changed from T1 connections to something less
expansive, the cost for providing the service would drop considerably.
My half cents, fwiw.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Contributions Down By 23%... |
I've written a list server and managed lists on my own hardware. It
made sense, once. It doesn't, now. I host a list on Google Groups and
participate in another on Yahoo. Each is better than a homebrew -- and
a hell of lot less work. And it isn't necessary to troll for contributions.
T1s are nuts. They're expensive, unreliable, and have pathetic
bandwidth compared to a cable modem. The cheapest Comcast commercial
service is 12 times faster more a great deal more reliable than a
Verizon T1.
But the ISP is moot. Google and Yahoo have infinite bandwidth and are
willing to share it for free and do the heavy lifting gratis. What's
wrong with this picture.
It's not my list, but a venue with infinite bandwidth, a more robust and
capable platform, and doesn't troll for contributions sounds to me like
a no-brainer.
On 11/27/2012 11:58 AM, Dj Merrill wrote:
>
> Hi Mel,
> Just an fyi, but Matt isn't likely to read your message. Although he
> maintains the lists, he does not read all of them. If you want to get
> in touch with him, I recommend sending directly to his email address
> rather than to the list, which is dralle@matronics.com.
>
> For what it is worth, I also maintain a set of aviation forums (email
> and web interfaces) using my own equipment and paying for it completely
> out of my own pocket. I don't ask for donations, and I do not have any
> advertising. Computer equipment costs are quite cheap as long as you
> aren't buying the latest and greatest.
>
> Although the "free" mailing lists do provide a nice service, I disagree
> that they are a replacement for being able to implement and support them
> myself.
>
> I suspect if Matt changed from T1 connections to something less
> expansive, the cost for providing the service would drop considerably.
>
> My half cents, fwiw.
>
> -Dj
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Contributions Down By 23%... |
DJ,
I did email Matt directly as well. Most commercial email list managers will notify
the list owner of replies to a message sent by the list owner. Perhaps'
Matt's software does not have this option. In any event, it's worth discussing
both privately and publicly, in light of the list features we could gain from
a commercial list archive service.
Jim,
We obviously agree ;) And you're right, T1s have gotten steadily less viable as
an edge connection, although it's often the only option in remote locations.
A T1 can go virtually any distance, including across the country. DSL and Cable
can go at most five miles from the head end, and at that distance speed is well
under a megabit per second.
One issue I have with Google and Yahoo is they give you no way (AFAIK) to perform
your own bulk backups. And they have lost content. GMANE and other mid-tier
operators do offer that option, for as little as ten cents per gigabyte to download.
Matt could probably back up all his highly-compressible text list content
for a few bucks a month.
-mel
On Nov 27, 2012, at 11:29 AM, Jim Starkey wrote:
>
> I've written a list server and managed lists on my own hardware. It
> made sense, once. It doesn't, now. I host a list on Google Groups and
> participate in another on Yahoo. Each is better than a homebrew -- and
> a hell of lot less work. And it isn't necessary to troll for contributions.
>
> T1s are nuts. They're expensive, unreliable, and have pathetic
> bandwidth compared to a cable modem. The cheapest Comcast commercial
> service is 12 times faster more a great deal more reliable than a
> Verizon T1.
>
> But the ISP is moot. Google and Yahoo have infinite bandwidth and are
> willing to share it for free and do the heavy lifting gratis. What's
> wrong with this picture.
>
> It's not my list, but a venue with infinite bandwidth, a more robust and
> capable platform, and doesn't troll for contributions sounds to me like
> a no-brainer.
>
>
> On 11/27/2012 11:58 AM, Dj Merrill wrote:
>>
>> Hi Mel,
>> Just an fyi, but Matt isn't likely to read your message. Although he
>> maintains the lists, he does not read all of them. If you want to get
>> in touch with him, I recommend sending directly to his email address
>> rather than to the list, which is dralle@matronics.com.
>>
>> For what it is worth, I also maintain a set of aviation forums (email
>> and web interfaces) using my own equipment and paying for it completely
>> out of my own pocket. I don't ask for donations, and I do not have any
>> advertising. Computer equipment costs are quite cheap as long as you
>> aren't buying the latest and greatest.
>>
>> Although the "free" mailing lists do provide a nice service, I disagree
>> that they are a replacement for being able to implement and support them
>> myself.
>>
>> I suspect if Matt changed from T1 connections to something less
>> expansive, the cost for providing the service would drop considerably.
>>
>> My half cents, fwiw.
>>
>> -Dj
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Running The Lists, Local vs. Free/Remote... |
Hi Mel,
Thank you for the thoughtful comments. Realize that I've been running the Matronics
Lists for roughly 23 years now and started having fund raisers about 15
years ago as a means of offsetting the cost of operations. Prior to that, I simply
ran them at my own expense. The number of members making a contribution
is usually around 5-10% of the total subscription base, which has generally covered
my expenses pretty well. Throughout the fund raiser I monitor the contributions
and send out messages to spur contributions as necessary. Its a system
that works well and everybody's happy. Nobody has ever been forced to make
a contribution. It is a completely voluntary aspect of participation in the
Lists and Forums.
As far as the technology behind the curtain, I have been approached many times
over the years to "move the operation". But frankly there is no real need for
that. Additionally, the insecurity of moving credit card information and list
processing to some "free" service is not worth the risk. Note that I also process
all of my Matronics and Kitlog sales through the same local systems. Many
times you used the word "free" in referencing these other Internet systems.
Nope. Nothings free. Restrictions apply. Advertisements abound. Lack of
privacy and operational and configurational freedom are major issues. I have
been in IT for 29 years and understand the operational aspects of these kind
of operations pretty well.
Over the years I have added additional functionality to the Lists services. It
originally started out as just a plain email list using dialup. Yeah, the lists
go back that far. Later, when the Internet and web came around, I added a
lot of web search and browse functionality. Later, I added the Web Forums interface.
There are literally 23 years of logs for every email discussion ever
made on the Matronics Lists. How many "commercial" forums can make that claim?
The Matronics Lists and Forums softwares are showing their age, yes. But, they
also serve a special purpose in that they render both a Majordomo-style email
experience that many people still prefer including myself, as well as the Web
Forum interface that has become popular. The two formats are tightly integrated
and share a common content base. Finding a suitable replacement for that
functionality isn't as easy as it would seem, and integrating all of the 23 years
worth of logs into it even more difficult.
I have a LOT of email users on the Matronics system. I also have a lot of Web
Forum users. Both groups like their respective interface. Anything new has to
please both of these groups. Unlike Microsoft, who simply shoves a completely
new user interface down their customers throat every few years, I appreciate
consistency of functionality and operation and so do most of my subscribers.
I take running these Lists *very* seriously and that means providing an exceptionably
stable, reliable, consistence experience. This cannot be accomplished
short, medium, or long term by randomly moving the operation to the latest "free"
service on the Internet provider de jour. My operation in its entirety gives
me the flexibility, performance, reliability, and security that I demand.
I am always looking at new ways of bringing the Email and Forum integration together
even tighter and infusing those functions with the latest technologies.
But it has to be the *right* answer, not just the "cool" or "free" answer.
Again, thank you for your feedback. I always appreciate a fresh viewpoint and
its nice to know that members care enough to suggest alternate options and approaches
to accomplishing the task at hand. In fact, that it the whole point of
the Lists.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | 581 Jeannie Way | Livermore | CA | 94550
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Contributions Down By 23%... |
On 11/27/2012 02:29 PM, Jim Starkey wrote:
>
> I've written a list server and managed lists on my own hardware. It
> made sense, once. It doesn't, now. I host a list on Google Groups and
> participate in another on Yahoo. Each is better than a homebrew -- and
> a hell of lot less work.
If we were talking about a truly homebrew system, I might agree.
However, we are talking about professional forum and mailing list
software running on servers that are maintained by individuals, not a
homebrew setup. It is the same software used by many institutions
around the world (at least what I'm running, I'm not sure exactly what
Matt has implemented).
I maintain lists on both Yahoo and on my own servers, and they are
about equal in terms of work involved. There is more work to do the
initial setup using your own server, but once up and running there is
not a huge difference. There are advantages to running on your own
servers, which IMHO outweigh the commercial services. such as the bulk
backups that Mel mentions.
I guess I'm saying that my experience does not match yours in terms of
the amount of effort needed to maintain the lists.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Running The Lists, Local vs. Free/Remote... |
On Nov 27, 2012, at 1:38 PM, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
> Hi Mel,
>
> Thank you for the thoughtful comments. Realize that I've been running the Matronics
Lists for roughly 23 years now and started having fund raisers about 15
years ago as a means of offsetting the cost of operations. Prior to that, I
simply ran them at my own expense. The number of members making a contribution
is usually around 5-10% of the total subscription base, which has generally
covered my expenses pretty well. Throughout the fund raiser I monitor the contributions
and send out messages to spur contributions as necessary. Its a system
that works well and everybody's happy. Nobody has ever been forced to make
a contribution. It is a completely voluntary aspect of participation in the
Lists and Forums.
>
> As far as the technology behind the curtain, I have been approached many times
over the years to "move the operation". But frankly there is no real need for
that. Additionally, the insecurity of moving credit card information and list
processing to some "free" service is not worth the risk. Note that I also
process all of my Matronics and Kitlog sales through the same local systems.
Many times you used the word "free" in referencing these other Internet systems.
Nope. Nothings free. Restrictions apply. Advertisements abound. Lack
of privacy and operational and configurational freedom are major issues. I have
been in IT for 29 years and understand the operational aspects of these kind
of operations pretty well.
>
> Over the years I have added additional functionality to the Lists services.
It originally started out as just a plain email list using dialup. Yeah, the
lists go back that far. Later, when the Internet and web came around, I added
a lot of web search and browse functionality. Later, I added the Web Forums
interface. There are literally 23 years of logs for every email discussion ever
made on the Matronics Lists. How many "commercial" forums can make that claim?
>
> The Matronics Lists and Forums softwares are showing their age, yes. But, they
also serve a special purpose in that they render both a Majordomo-style email
experience that many people still prefer including myself, as well as the Web
Forum interface that has become popular. The two formats are tightly integrated
and share a common content base. Finding a suitable replacement for that
functionality isn't as easy as it would seem, and integrating all of the 23
years worth of logs into it even more difficult.
>
> I have a LOT of email users on the Matronics system. I also have a lot of Web
Forum users. Both groups like their respective interface. Anything new has
to please both of these groups. Unlike Microsoft, who simply shoves a completely
new user interface down their customers throat every few years, I appreciate
consistency of functionality and operation and so do most of my subscribers.
>
> I take running these Lists *very* seriously and that means providing an exceptionably
stable, reliable, consistence experience. This cannot be accomplished
short, medium, or long term by randomly moving the operation to the latest "free"
service on the Internet provider de jour. My operation in its entirety
gives me the flexibility, performance, reliability, and security that I demand.
I am always looking at new ways of bringing the Email and Forum integration
together even tighter and infusing those functions with the latest technologies.
But it has to be the *right* answer, not just the "cool" or "free" answer.
>
> Again, thank you for your feedback. I always appreciate a fresh viewpoint and
its nice to know that members care enough to suggest alternate options and approaches
to accomplishing the task at hand. In fact, that it the whole point
of the Lists.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Matt Dralle
> Matronics Email List Administrator
>
>
>
> Matt G Dralle | Matronics | 581 Jeannie Way | Livermore | CA | 94550
> 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
>
>
>
>
>
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