TeamGrumman-List Digest Sun 12/16/12

TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive

Sun 12/16/12

Total Messages Posted: 19



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:07 AM - Re: Updates on 28747 (Gary L Vogt)
     2. 12:14 AM - Re: Updates on 28747 (Gary L Vogt)
     3. 12:14 AM - Re: Updates on 28747 (Gary L Vogt)
     4. 04:04 AM - Re: Updates on 28747 (Kevin)
     5. 04:08 AM - Re: Updates on 28747 (Kevin)
     6. 06:23 AM - Re: Updates on 28747 (Steven Lindrooth)
     7. 06:52 AM - Re: Updates on 28747 (FLYaDIVE)
     8. 07:09 AM - Re: Updates on 28747 (923TE)
     9. 07:15 AM -  (Kevin)
    10. 11:00 AM - Re: FB? (Gary Vogt)
    11. 11:11 AM - Re: Updates on 28747 (Gary Vogt)
    12. 11:12 AM - Re: Updates on 28747 (Gary Vogt)
    13. 12:37 PM - Re: Updates on 28747 (Mel Beckman)
    14. 02:30 PM - Re: Updates on 28747 (Dj Merrill)
    15. 03:46 PM - Re: Updates on 28747 (mel@becknet.com)
    16. 04:06 PM - Re: Updates on 28747 (Dj Merrill)
    17. 11:12 PM - Re: Updates on 28747 (Gary L Vogt)
    18. 11:47 PM - Re: Updates on 28747 (mel@becknet.com)
    19. 11:50 PM - Re: Updates on 28747 (mel@becknet.com)
 
 
 

Message 1


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Time: 12:07:02 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Updates on 28747
From: Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com>      
      To create pages on my web site takes hours. To publish on Facebook takes min
      utes. 
      
      Sent from my iPad
      
      On Dec 15, 2012, at 3:23 PM, Carol Stocker <stockercarolm@gmail.com> wrote:
      
      > I don't either...would like to see the pictures, too...could not find the i
      nterior pictures on the AuCountry web page.
      > 
      > On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 6:19 PM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
      > Well, That is totally lemon!
      > 
      > I cannot either.. I don't FACE.
      > 
      > Barry
      > 
      > On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Kevin <aa5_driver@yahoo.com> wrote:
      > Would lime to see them but cannot.
      > 
      > Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
      > 
      > I've been posting a lot of pictures on Facebook of the interior restoratio
      n on my plane.  If you want to see them, just 'LIKE' the AuCountry Aviation p
      age.  
      > 
      > 
      > _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
      > .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
      > ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
      > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
      > st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
      > tp://forums.matronics.com
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
      > .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
      > ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
      > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
      > st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
      > tp://forums.matronics.com
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      ==========================
      =========
      ==========================
      =========
      ==========================
      =========
      ==========================
      =========
      > 
      

Message 2


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Time: 12:14:36 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Updates on 28747
From: Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com>      
      Bummer. Only takes a minute and you. Don't even need any friends. 
      
      Sent from my iPad
      
      On Dec 15, 2012, at 3:19 PM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
      
      > Well, That is totally lemon!
      > 
      > I cannot either.. I don't FACE.
      > 
      > Barry
      > 
      > On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Kevin <aa5_driver@yahoo.com> wrote:
      > Would lime to see them but cannot.
      > 
      > Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
      > 
      > I've been posting a lot of pictures on Facebook of the interior restoratio
      n on my plane.  If you want to see them, just 'LIKE' the AuCountry Aviation p
      age.  
      > 
      > 
      > _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
      > .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
      > ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
      > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
      > st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
      > tp://forums.matronics.com
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      ==========================
      =========
      ==========================
      =========
      ==========================
      =========
      ==========================
      =========
      > 
      

Message 3


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Time: 12:14:36 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Updates on 28747
From: Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com>      
      Kevin, if it's some sort of religious issue, I understand. 
      
      Sent from my iPad
      
      On Dec 15, 2012, at 1:57 PM, Kevin <aa5_driver@yahoo.com> wrote:
      
      > Would lime to see them but cannot.
      > 
      > Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
      > 
      > I've been posting a lot of pictures on Facebook of the interior restoratio
      n on my plane.  If you want to see them, just 'LIKE' the AuCountry Aviation p
      age.  
      > 
      > 
      ==========================
      =========
      ==========================
      =========
      ==========================
      =========
      ==========================
      =========
      > 
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Message 4


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Time: 04:04:51 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Updates on 28747
From: Kevin <aa5_driver@yahoo.com>      
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      PTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEIA=
      

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Time: 04:08:14 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Updates on 28747
From: Kevin <aa5_driver@yahoo.com>      
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      PT09PT09IA=
      

Message 6


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Time: 06:23:39 AM PST US
From: "Steven Lindrooth" <SLindrooth@verizon.net>
Subject: Updates on 28747      
      At the risk of beating a dead horse, my dog has a Facebook account.  All it
      takes is a valid email address, the free ones from Yahoo, Gmail ect. work
      fine.  The point being that you don't even have to use your real name, let
      alone enter any meaningful information to open a Facebook account.
      
      
      Steve Lindrooth 
      
      
        _____  
      
      Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Updates on 28747
      
      
      Really it's an issue with a company that I don't trust with my information.
      Too many issues with fb. Thanks for your concern now get back to making
      airplane parts and fixing your website. :)
      
      Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
      
      Kevin, if it's some sort of religious issue, I understand. 
      
      Sent from my iPad
      
      
      On Dec 15, 2012, at 1:57 PM, Kevin <aa5_driver@yahoo.com> wrote:
      
      Would lime to see them but cannot.
      
      Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
      
      I've been posting a lot of pictures on Facebook of the interior restoration
      on my plane.  If you want to see them, just 'LIKE' the AuCountry Aviation
      page.  
      
      

Message 7


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Time: 06:52:44 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Updates on 28747
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com>      
      Hi Gary:
      
      I can understand the time it took to create your Website and agree the time
      is prohibitive when you consider the quantity of pictures you
      are requested to post along with the quantity you do post... THANK YOU.
      But there are simpler and better ways of posting to the Internet than
      FACEBOOK.
      Look into SHUTTERFLY.COM and PHOTOBUCKET.COM.
      Both sites are free to post to and are not personally intrusive as FACEBOOK.
      
      Barry
      
      On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 3:02 AM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
      
      > To create pages on my web site takes hours. To publish on Facebook takes
      > minutes.
      >
      > Sent from my iPad
      >
      > On Dec 15, 2012, at 3:23 PM, Carol Stocker <stockercarolm@gmail.com>
      > wrote:
      >
      > I don't either...would like to see the pictures, too...could not find the
      > interior pictures on the AuCountry web page.
      >
      > On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 6:19 PM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
      >
      >> Well, That is totally lemon!
      >>
      >> I cannot either.. I don't FACE.
      >>
      >> Barry
      >>
      >> On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Kevin <aa5_driver@yahoo.com> wrote:
      >>
      >>> Would lime to see them but cannot.
      >>>
      >>> Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
      >>>
      >>> I've been posting a lot of pictures on Facebook of the interior
      >>> restoration on my plane.  If you want to see them, just 'LIKE' the
      >>> AuCountry Aviation page.
      >>>
      >>> *
      >>>
      >>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
      >>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
      >>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
      >>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
      >>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
      >>> tp://forums.matronics.com
      >>> *
      >>>
      >>>
      >> *
      >>
      >> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
      >> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
      >> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
      >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
      >> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
      >> tp://forums.matronics.com
      >> *
      >>
      >>
      > *
      >
      > *
      >
      > *
      >
      > *
      >
      >
      

Message 8


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Time: 07:09:58 AM PST US
From: 923TE <923te@att.net>
Subject: Re: Updates on 28747      
      
      Just created a Facebook account in an assumed name. Took about 45 seconds. Skipped
      all questions after the first page.
      
      

Message 9


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Time: 07:15:45 AM PST US
From: Kevin <aa5_driver@yahoo.com>      
      
      

Message 10


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Time: 11:00:31 AM PST US
From: Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: FB?      
      We've had this conversation before. -I have no desire to convert anyone t
      o FB. -I was not implying you should be on FB. -I was simply stating th
      at the updates on 747 have been posted on FB. -If you don't want to recei
      ve them via FB, I respect your decisions.=0A=0AI suppose if my entire famil
      y (and my wife's entire family) were in the neighborhood, Facebook wouldn't
       make any sense. -As it is, FB has allowed me to stay in touch with, and 
      up-to-date with, my daughter and grandsons in Mass, my brother in Florida, 
      my granddaughter, mother, and sisters and a brother in Utah, and cousins in
       Washington, Florida, Texas, Oregon, and New York on a daily/semi-daily bas
      is. -Not to mention about 10 friends from High School and current and pas
      t customers.=0A=0AFacebook has been invaluable for my wife in staying in to
      uch with her son in New York, here sisters and brothers in Italy, Belgium, 
      Australia, Argentina, Canada, England and on 4 different islands in the Phi
      lippines. -She also stays in touch with dozens of cousins all over the wo
      rld; including the middle east.=0A=0AAs for copyrights, I can download just
       about anything from the internet. -As for patents, nothing is stopping a
      nyone from copying my inventions. -I don't have enough money to fight the
      m in court. -If you are too lazy or too ignorant to invent something on y
      our own and want to steal something I create, knock yourself out. -Imitat
      ion is the sincerest form of flattery.=0A=0AI promote my day-to-day progres
      s on my projects on the AuCountry Aviation Facebook page. -My former and 
      current customers seem to appreciate the posts. -Many of my friends and m
      ost of my family enjoy (or seem to, anyway) the posts about my projects. 
      -My nephew is a gear head and he is really interested in my projects. -
      He isn't into FB and never posts anything except on my AuCountry Aviation F
      B page. -The moderator of this -list is on my AuCountry Aviation FB page.
       -He's a pilot. -He's an airplane builder. -He does some awesome work
      . -His RV has the nicest interior of any plane I've ever seen. -If not 
      for FB, I wouldn't have seen something he created. -if not for FB, I woul
      dn't have even known he was a pilot.=0A=0AWhen I get some time, I'll be upd
      ating my web site; I haven't updated the Restoration page since 2010.=0A=0A
      Again, if you choose to 'Like' my FB page, great. -I'll never know who yo
      u are. -The 'Like' only shows my friends. -So, you can lurk and remain 
      anonymous. -If you choose to wait until I update my website, I hope you h
      appen to go to my website and know where to look. -=0A=0AYa all have a ni
      ce day now. -=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Bob Steward 
      <n76lima@mindspring.com>=0ATo: Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> =0ASent:
       Sunday, December 16, 2012 9:17 AM=0ASubject: FB?=0A =0AYes, for some it ma
      y seem like a religious debate.=0AI personally don't use FB, and see little
       if any use in it.=0AToo old, I guess.- But then I don't Tweet, either.
      - So maybe I am just a bit of a Luddite.=0A=0AOne aspect you may not have
       considered, I understand that FB OWNS all materials posted.- So you are 
      giving up the copyright to all your photos, and possibly even technical inf
      o you post...=0A=0ANot a good plan for a business.=0A=0AAnd Kevin (and othe
      rs) are correct, there are several easy ways to share photos that do not gi
      ve up your ownership, and are as simple as "drag and drop."=0A=0AMerry Chri
      stmas.=0A=0A--Bob Steward
      

Message 11


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Time: 11:11:38 AM PST US
From: Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Updates on 28747      
      Kevin, and others=0A=0AI have viewed pics on Fletchers photobucket. =C2-I
      f he posted something since the last time I looked, I'd never know. =C2-I
      'd never know because I don't get notified when he posts something. =C2-I
       also don't care much for the format on photobucket. =C2-But, that's a su
      bjective call. =C2-=0A=0AI have 64 likes in the AuCountry FB page. =C2-
      Those people will see the updates.=0A=0AKevin, in the length of time it too
      k you to write the email, you could have signed up on FB and liked the page
      . =C2-By now, you would have seen the projects. =C2-In an hour you'd be
       sent an email that I've posted Dave's headliner on AuCountry FB page. =C2
      -Then you, too, could have seen it. =C2-It's a personal thing for you a
      nd a few others and I appreciate that. =C2-=0A=0AI never sign up for thos
      e store cards are the grocery store that may save me a few cents on purchas
      es. =C2-I don't want them to associate my name with what I buy. =C2-Tha
      t's me. =C2-You don't want to make me sign up for the card. =C2-I'm not
       going to make you sign up on FB. =C2-=0A=0AI do use an Apple Web page so
      ftware. =C2-I've been building web pages for 20 years. =C2-I've used se
      veral programs. =C2-It's time consuming to create buttons, build all the 
      cross links and get them right. =C2-=0A=0A=0AGary=0A=0A__________________
      ______________=0A From: Kevin <aa5_driver@yahoo.com>=0ATo: teamgrumman-list
      @matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 4:04 AM=0ASubject: Re: Te
      amGrumman-List: Updates on 28747=0A =0A=0AWhy not add a page/link on your w
      ebsite that send viewers to a page on a photo sharing site like the one Fle
      tcher uses ( http://s831.photobucket.com/albums/zz239/airmaster1 ).  It wou
      ld be quick, easy, and then everyone can see.   That way, you will not spen
      d hours working with some obscure and likely outdated software like your us
      ing for your website. =0A=0AOnce the page link is created on your website, 
      you will not have to make any changes when you add photos to the photo shar
      ing site.  I'm not sure if you recognize that for every person who will tak
      e the time to share with you the frustration of not being able to see what 
      you are posting about, there are many others who will say nothing but will 
      not see your work/products and that costs you sales.  Then again maybe you 
      don't care about that.  I guess you could just have your auc fb page and de
      lete the incomplete website since it is so much hassle to deal with. =0A=0A
      I'd liken it to apple products.  They are good quality but not everyone  us
      ed them.   Speaking of apple, why not use some of their new web creation so
      ftware and make a new easy to maintain website.  It is super easy to add ph
      otos and new pages any time you want(drag and drop).  I may buy one just fo
      r that capability.=0A=0ABy the way, I'm quite serious about this.  I would 
      not waste my time on an issue such as this if it was not important to me. B
      ut don't listen to me, after all I'm just a customer, and who needs them.
      =0A=0AGary L Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:=0A=0A=0ATo create pages on
       my web site takes hours. To publish on Facebook takes minutes.=C2-=0A=0A
      Sent from my iPad=0A=0AOn Dec 15, 2012, at 3:23 PM, Carol Stocker <stockerc
      arolm@gmail.com> wrote:=0A=0A=0AI don't either...would like to see the pict
      ures, too...could not find the interior pictures on the AuCountry web page.
      =0A>=0A>=0A>On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 6:19 PM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> 
      wrote:=0A>=0A>Well, That is totally lemon!=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>I cannot either.. 
      I don't FACE.=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Barry=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 4:5
      7 PM, Kevin <aa5_driver@yahoo.com> wrote:=0A>>=0A>>Would lime to see them b
      ut cannot.=0A>>>=0A>>>Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:=0A>>>=0A>>>
      =0A>>>I've been posting a lot of pictures on Facebook of the interior resto
      ration on my plane. =C2-If you want to see them, just 'LIKE' the AuCountr
      y Aviation page. =C2-=0A>>>_blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_
      blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http
      ://www.matronics.com/contribution st" target="_blank">http://www.matronic
      s.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List tp://forums.matronics.com =0A>>=0A>>_blank
      ">www.aeroelectric.com=0A.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com=0A
      ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com=0A_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contri
      bution st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman
      D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
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      =B2
      

Message 12


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Time: 11:12:37 AM PST US
From: Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Updates on 28747      
      There is no requirement on FB to include any information that is true and c
      orrect. =C2-Make it up as you go along?=0A=0A=0A_________________________
      _______=0A From: Kevin <aa5_driver@yahoo.com>=0ATo: teamgrumman-list@matron
      ics.com =0ASent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 4:07 AM=0ASubject: Re: TeamGrumm
      an-List: Updates on 28747=0A =0A=0AReally it's an issue with a company that
       I don't trust with my information.  Too many issues with fb.  Thanks for y
      our concern now get back to making airplane parts and fixing your website. 
      :)=0A=0AGary L Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:=0A=0A=0AKevin, if it's s
      ome sort of religious issue, I understand.=C2-=0A=0ASent from my iPad=0A
      =0AOn Dec 15, 2012, at 1:57 PM, Kevin <aa5_driver@yahoo.com> wrote:=0A=0A
      =0AWould lime to see them but cannot.=0A>=0A>Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.c
      om> wrote:=0A>=0A>=0A>I've been posting a lot of pictures on Facebook of th
      e interior restoration on my plane. =C2-If you want to see them, just 'LI
      KE' the AuCountry Aviation page. =C2-=0A>==========
       ctric.com >www.buildersbooks.com uilthelp.com matronics.com/contribution 
      ===========0At">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Team
      Grumman-List=0A====================
      =============== cs.com =======
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Message 13


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Time: 12:37:56 PM PST US
From: Mel Beckman <mel@becknet.com>
Subject: Re: Updates on 28747      
      Gary,
      
      Alas, you have incorrect info. Facebook requires your real first and last na
      me and that you upload a copy of a government-issued ID:
      
      http://m.facebook.com/help/457469094277849/
      
      Anyone who manages to fake an ID submission will eventually get their accoun
      t suspended with the following message:
      
      http://www.facebook.com/help/contact/?id=183000765122339
      
      Any existing FB users who haven't yet submitted an ID will soon have their a
      ccount suspended and receive an identical message. 
      
      This is why I, too, eschew Facebook. It's gotten extremely big brotherish, a
      nd FB has proven over and over again that it can't be trusted to keep your i
      nformation private. Mark Zuckerberg, the inventor of Facebook, has publicly s
      aid many times that he believes there is no such thing as privacy and his in
      tention is that everyone should share everything.
      
      He's an idiot. A wealthy idiot, to be sure, making a fortune by selling your
       privacy to others. 
      
      -mel
      
      On Dec 16, 2012, at 11:12 AM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
      
      > There is no requirement on FB to include any information that is true and c
      orrect.  Make it up as you go along?
      > 
      > From: Kevin <aa5_driver@yahoo.com>
      > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com 
      > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 4:07 AM
      > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Updates on 28747
      > 
      > Really it's an issue with a company that I don't trust with my information
      . Too many issues with fb. Thanks for your concern now get back to making ai
      rplane parts and fixing your website. :)
      > 
      > Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
      > 
      > Kevin, if it's some sort of religious issue, I understand. 
      > 
      > Sent from my iPad
      > 
      > On Dec 15, 2012, at 1:57 PM, Kevin <aa5_driver@yahoo.com> wrote:
      > 
      >> Would lime to see them but cannot.
      >> 
      >> Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
      >> 
      >> I've been posting a lot of pictures on Facebook of the interior restorati
      on on my plane.  If you want to see them, just 'LIKE' the AuCountry Aviation
       page.  
      >> 
      >> 
      >> =========================
      =========
      >> ctric.com
      >> >www.buildersbooks.com
      >> uilthelp.com
      >> matronics.com/contribution
      >> =========================
      =========
      >> t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
      >> =========================
      =========
      >> cs.com
      >> =========
      >> 
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      >   * AeroElectric www.homebui http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumma
      n-Lis===========
      > 
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      > 
      > 
      >  
      > 
      ==========================
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      ==========================
      =========
      ==========================
      =========
      ==========================
      =========
      > 
      

Message 14


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Time: 02:30:51 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Updates on 28747
From: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>      
      On 12/16/2012 3:37 PM, Mel Beckman wrote:
      > Gary,
      >
      > Alas, you have incorrect info. Facebook requires your real first and 
      > last name and that you upload a copy of a government-issued ID:
      >
      > http://m.facebook.com/help/457469094277849/
      >
      
      
           Mel, you are misinterpreting that page.  There is no *requirement* 
      for uploading an ID to setup a Facebook account.  They only ask for ID 
      if you lose your facebook password and are asking for their help to get 
      into your account.  They are basically asking you to confirm that you 
      are really you, and it is not Gary trying to get into your account, for 
      example...  :-)  Of course they want you to use your real name to setup 
      the account, but there is nothing stopping you from creating an account 
      using fake info.
      
           So, don't forget your password and you are fine.  Or, if you do, 
      since you created the original account with fake info, just create 
      another one with fake info and make sure to write the password down 
      somewhere.
      
      -Dj
      
      -- 
      Dj Merrill - N1JOV
      Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
      Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
      
      

Message 15


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Time: 03:46:11 PM PST US
From: "mel@becknet.com" <mel@becknet.com>
Subject: Re: Updates on 28747      
      DJ,
      
      Can you try to scam FB? Of course. You can use a false ID at a bar too, but t
      here can be consequences.  In some states violating the terms of a contract i
      s a crime: fraud. The Facebook agreement you accept has been ruled in court y
      o be a legally binding contract. Facebook rules require that you have only o
      ne account, in your own name:
      
      Facebook users must provide their real names and information, and we need yo
      ur help to keep it that way. Here are some commitments you make to us relati
      ng to registering and maintaining the security of your account:
      You will not provide any false personal information on Facebook, or create a
      n account for anyone other than yourself without permission.
      You will not create more than one personal account.
      If we disable your account, you will not create another one without our perm
      ission.
      It's true that FB doesn't often require that you submit an ID when you regis
      ter (although for famous names they do). But this "inefficiency" is simply a
       logistics issue that FB is working through. Eventually they will ask you to
       upload an ID, and if you don't they will lock your account. There is now ap
      peal from this process, and once locked, until you send them an ID, they wil
      l continue to sell your data, create new events on your account viewable by o
      thers (such as photo tagging and app purchases via Facebook co-conspirators s
      uch as Amazon), and there is Nothing you can do abut it.
      
      This happened to my daughter when she complained that a "friend of a friend"
       was posting vulgar messages on her page despite her security settings. Face
      book demanded her picture ID. When she refused, she was locked out. The repu
      tation carnage from the vulgar postings continue.
      
      As an IT security specialist I advise people against using FB if they value t
      heir privacy. It may seem convenient, and there can be benefits, but they ar
      en't worth the ultimate risk. There are more secure alternatives that do res
      pect privacy and permit anonymity. 
      
       -mel 
      
      On Dec 16, 2012, at 2:30 PM, Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net> wrote:
      
      > On 12/16/2012 3:37 PM, Mel Beckman wrote:
      >> Gary,
      >> 
      >> Alas, you have incorrect info. Facebook requires your real first and last
       name and that you upload a copy of a government-issued ID:
      >> 
      >> http://m.facebook.com/help/457469094277849/
      >> 
      > 
      > 
      >     Mel, you are misinterpreting that page.  There is no *requirement* for
       uploading an ID to setup a Facebook account.  They only ask for ID if you l
      ose your facebook password and are asking for their help to get into your ac
      count.  They are basically asking you to confirm that you are really you, an
      d it is not Gary trying to get into your account, for example...  :-)  Of co
      urse they want you to use your real name to setup the account, but there is n
      othing stopping you from creating an account using fake info.
      > 
      >     So, don't forget your password and you are fine.  Or, if you do, since
       you created the original account with fake info, just create another one wi
      th fake info and make sure to write the password down somewhere.
      > 
      > -Dj
      > 
      > -- 
      > Dj Merrill - N1JOV
      > Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
      > Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
      > 
      > 
      > 
      ==========================
      =========
      ==========================
      =========
      ==========================
      =========
      ==========================
      =========
      > 
      

Message 16


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Time: 04:06:36 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Updates on 28747
From: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>      
      
      On 12/16/2012 6:45 PM, mel@becknet.com wrote:
      > Eventually they will ask you to upload an ID, and if you don't they 
      > will lock your account. ...(snip)...  there is Nothing you can do abut it.
      
           Of course there is, you can stop using Facebook.
      
      > As an IT security specialist I advise people against using FB if they 
      > value their privacy.
      
           Agreed.  I am also an IT security specialist, and there is no way 
      that I would ever put anything on Facebook that I cared about, including 
      any real information about my birthday, birth place, etc.
      
           If you truly think that Facebook is going to take you to court for 
      creating an account with false info, then they would have a LOT of court 
      cases to file.  :-)  It is really not very practical for them to do so, 
      including technical a well as legal concerns.  If you are really worried 
      about them tracking you down, use the Tor web browser to help protect 
      your anonymity.
      
           If you are seriously concerned about Big Brother tracking you, then 
      get rid of all of your credit cards and other means of electronic 
      purchases, never use a cell phone, never fly a commercial airline, never 
      file a flight plan (VFR or IFR), etc.
      
      
      > There are more secure alternatives that do respect privacy and permit 
      > anonymity.
      
           Been there and tried that - basic issue is that none of my 
      "friends" use them, so there was little point in posting info just for 
      myself to read.
      
      -Dj
      
      -- 
      Dj Merrill - N1JOV
      Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
      Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
      
      

Message 17


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Time: 11:12:11 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Updates on 28747
From: Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com>      
      Wow.  News to me. I have never up loaded a govt ID. 
      
      When I first signed up on FB years ago, I created two different ones because
       of all the stuff I've heard. The other one is till there under a name I mad
      e up. 
      
      Sent from my iPad
      
      On Dec 16, 2012, at 12:37 PM, Mel Beckman <mel@becknet.com> wrote:
      
      > Gary,
      > 
      > Alas, you have incorrect info. Facebook requires your real first and last n
      ame and that you upload a copy of a government-issued ID:
      > 
      > http://m.facebook.com/help/457469094277849/
      > 
      > Anyone who manages to fake an ID submission will eventually get their acco
      unt suspended with the following message:
      > 
      > http://www.facebook.com/help/contact/?id=183000765122339
      > 
      > Any existing FB users who haven't yet submitted an ID will soon have their
       account suspended and receive an identical message. 
      > 
      > This is why I, too, eschew Facebook. It's gotten extremely big brotherish,
       and FB has proven over and over again that it can't be trusted to keep your
       information private. Mark Zuckerberg, the inventor of Facebook, has publicl
      y said many times that he believes there is no such thing as privacy and his
       intention is that everyone should share everything.
      > 
      > He's an idiot. A wealthy idiot, to be sure, making a fortune by selling yo
      ur privacy to others. 
      > 
      > -mel
      > 
      > On Dec 16, 2012, at 11:12 AM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
      > 
      >> There is no requirement on FB to include any information that is true and
       correct.  Make it up as you go along?
      >> 
      >> From: Kevin <aa5_driver@yahoo.com>
      >> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com 
      >> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 4:07 AM
      >> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Updates on 28747
      >> 
      >> Really it's an issue with a company that I don't trust with my informatio
      n. Too many issues with fb. Thanks for your concern now get back to making a
      irplane parts and fixing your website. :)
      >> 
      >> Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
      >> 
      >> Kevin, if it's some sort of religious issue, I understand. 
      >> 
      >> Sent from my iPad
      >> 
      >> On Dec 15, 2012, at 1:57 PM, Kevin <aa5_driver@yahoo.com> wrote:
      >> 
      >>> Would lime to see them but cannot.
      >>> 
      >>> Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
      >>> 
      >>> I've been posting a lot of pictures on Facebook of the interior restorat
      ion on my plane.  If you want to see them, just 'LIKE' the AuCountry Aviatio
      n page.  
      >>> 
      >>> 
      >>> ========================
      >>> ctric.com
      >>> >www.buildersbooks.com
      >>> uilthelp.com
      >>> matronics.com/contribution
      >>> ========================
      >>> t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
      >>> ========================
      >>> cs.com
      >>> =========
      >>> 
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      =BDhm=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD~=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD
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      =AF=C2=C2=BDr=C3=AF=C2=C2=BDf
      >>   * AeroElectric www.homebui http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumm
      an-Lis===========
      >> 
      >> =C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9Eg(=93=C5-=C3=93
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      =AD=C2=B2=C5=A1=C3=A8=C2=BE'^v=C3=B2
      >> 
      >> 
      >>  
      >> 
      >> =========================
      =========
      >> " face="courier new,courier">www.aeroelectric.com
      >> >www.buildersbooks.com
      >> uilthelp.com
      >> matronics.com/contribution
      >> =========================
      =========
      >> t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
      >> =========================
      =========
      >> cs.com
      >> =========================
      =========
      >> 
      > 
      > 
      ==========================
      =========
      ==========================
      =========
      ==========================
      =========
      ==========================
      =========
      > 
      

Message 18


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Time: 11:47:46 PM PST US
From: "mel@becknet.com" <mel@becknet.com>
Subject: Re: Updates on 28747      
      FB didn't always have this requirement, but they are in the process of enfor
      cing it more widely. Eventually FB will demand upload of your ID; for sure t
      hey will the first time you ask for assistance. This is a war of attrition f
      or them, so they're in no hurry. By demanding ID when users need something f
      rom them, they have a lever and achieve higher "compliance" levels. FB is sl
      owly absorbing IDs, at a rate that users don't sense and thus are complacent
       to let continue.  I've heard that internally staffers even refer to users a
      s "frogs".  
      
       -mel 
      
      On Dec 16, 2012, at 11:11 PM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
      
      > Wow.  News to me. I have never up loaded a govt ID. 
      > 
      > When I first signed up on FB years ago, I created two different ones becau
      se of all the stuff I've heard. The other one is till there under a name I m
      ade up. 
      > 
      > Sent from my iPad
      > 
      > On Dec 16, 2012, at 12:37 PM, Mel Beckman <mel@becknet.com> wrote:
      > 
      >> Gary,
      >> 
      >> Alas, you have incorrect info. Facebook requires your real first and last
       name and that you upload a copy of a government-issued ID:
      >> 
      >> http://m.facebook.com/help/457469094277849/
      >> 
      >> Anyone who manages to fake an ID submission will eventually get their acc
      ount suspended with the following message:
      >> 
      >> http://www.facebook.com/help/contact/?id=183000765122339
      >> 
      >> Any existing FB users who haven't yet submitted an ID will soon have thei
      r account suspended and receive an identical message. 
      >> 
      >> This is why I, too, eschew Facebook. It's gotten extremely big brotherish
      , and FB has proven over and over again that it can't be trusted to keep you
      r information private. Mark Zuckerberg, the inventor of Facebook, has public
      ly said many times that he believes there is no such thing as privacy and hi
      s intention is that everyone should share everything.
      >> 
      >> He's an idiot. A wealthy idiot, to be sure, making a fortune by selling y
      our privacy to others. 
      >> 
      >> -mel
      >> 
      >> On Dec 16, 2012, at 11:12 AM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
      >> 
      >>> There is no requirement on FB to include any information that is true an
      d correct.  Make it up as you go along?
      >>> 
      >>> From: Kevin <aa5_driver@yahoo.com>
      >>> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com 
      >>> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 4:07 AM
      >>> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Updates on 28747
      >>> 
      >>> Really it's an issue with a company that I don't trust with my informati
      on. Too many issues with fb. Thanks for your concern now get back to making a
      irplane parts and fixing your website. :)
      >>> 
      >>> Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
      >>> 
      >>> Kevin, if it's some sort of religious issue, I understand. 
      >>> 
      >>> Sent from my iPad
      >>> 
      >>> On Dec 15, 2012, at 1:57 PM, Kevin <aa5_driver@yahoo.com> wrote:
      >>> 
      >>>> Would lime to see them but cannot.
      >>>> 
      >>>> Gary Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
      >>>> 
      >>>> I've been posting a lot of pictures on Facebook of the interior restora
      tion on my plane.  If you want to see them, just 'LIKE' the AuCountry Aviati
      on page.  
      >>>> 
      >>>> 
      >>>> ========================
      >>>> ctric.com
      >>>> >www.buildersbooks.com
      >>>> uilthelp.com
      >>>> matronics.com/contribution
      >>>> ========================
      >>>> t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
      >>>> ========================
      >>>> cs.com
      >>>> =========
      >>>> 
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      =C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BDo=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2
      =C2=BD=C3=9F=C2=A2{=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BDn=C3
      =AF=C2=C2=BDr=C3=AF=C2=C2=BDf
      >>>   * AeroElectric www.homebui http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrum
      man-Lis===========
      >>> 
      >>> =C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9Eg(=93=C5-=C3=93
      M4=C3=93G=C3=9Aq=C3=BC=C2=A2=C3=C3=A2z=C2=B9=C3=9E=C3=81=C3=8A.=C2=AE'=C2
      =AB=C3=A5y=C2=ABJ=C3i=C2=A2=C2=BBX=C2=A2=C3=C3=8B=C5-=C3=8BlN=C2=AC2
      =B0=C3=AD=9E'tg=C2=ADJ=B0=C5=BEa8=C3=81DA=B0=C3=BBlh
      =C2=BD=C3=A9=BAz=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B6=82=AC=C5=BE{=C5=A1=9D=C2=B8
      =C2=AC=C2=B4[=C2=A7u=C2=A2=C2=B1=C3=C3=82=93'$=C2=A2}=C3-
      =C2=A8=C5=BE=C3=9A=C3=A2n=C3=ABb=C2=A2yb=C5=BEF=C3=9E=93=C5=92-=C2=A1=C3
      =B8=C2=A7v=B9=C2=AD=C5=A1=C5-=C3=9Ei=C2=BA=C2a=C5-=C3=8C=C5=BEj
      =C2=BBz=C2=BA=C3=A2~'=C2=AD=C3=A7=CB=86=EF=BD=C3=87=C2=A7=C2=B6+=C3=9E'=C3
      =AD=C2=B2=C5=A1=C3=A8=C2=BE'^v=C3=B2
      >>> 
      >>> 
      >>>  
      >>> 
      >>> ========================
      >>> " face="courier new,courier">www.aeroelectric.com
      >>> >www.buildersbooks.com
      >>> uilthelp.com
      >>> matronics.com/contribution
      >>> ========================
      >>> t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
      >>> ========================
      >>> cs.com
      >>> ========================
      >>> 
      >> 
      >> 
      >> =========================
      =========
      >> ctric.com
      >> >www.buildersbooks.com
      >> uilthelp.com
      >> matronics.com/contribution
      >> =========================
      =========
      >> t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
      >> =========================
      =========
      >> cs.com
      >> =========================
      =========
      >> 
      > 
      > 
      ==========================
      =========
      ==========================
      =========
      ==========================
      =========
      ==========================
      =========
      > 
      

Message 19


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Time: 11:50:19 PM PST US
From: "mel@becknet.com" <mel@becknet.com>
Subject: Re: Updates on 28747      
      It isn't FB taking you to court. It's law enforcement, arresting you and fil
      ing criminal charges. Google the cases and you'll see that court precedent h
      as been established that fake user IDs are a crime in some states, notably C
      A and NJ. 
      
       -mel 
      
      On Dec 16, 2012, at 4:06 PM, Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net> wrote:
      
      > 
      > On 12/16/2012 6:45 PM, mel@becknet.com wrote:
      >> Eventually they will ask you to upload an ID, and if you don't they will l
      ock your account. ...(snip)...  there is Nothing you can do abut it.
      > 
      >    Of course there is, you can stop using Facebook.
      > 
      >> As an IT security specialist I advise people against using FB if they val
      ue their privacy.
      > 
      >    Agreed.  I am also an IT security specialist, and there is no way that I
       would ever put anything on Facebook that I cared about, including any real i
      nformation about my birthday, birth place, etc.
      > 
      >    If you truly think that Facebook is going to take you to court for crea
      ting an account with false info, then they would have a LOT of court cases t
      o file.  :-)  It is really not very practical for them to do so, including t
      echnical a well as legal concerns.  If you are really worried about them tra
      cking you down, use the Tor web browser to help protect your anonymity.
      > 
      >    If you are seriously concerned about Big Brother tracking you, then get
       rid of all of your credit cards and other means of electronic purchases, ne
      ver use a cell phone, never fly a commercial airline, never file a flight pl
      an (VFR or IFR), etc.
      > 
      > 
      >> There are more secure alternatives that do respect privacy and permit ano
      nymity.
      > 
      >    Been there and tried that - basic issue is that none of my "friends" us
      e them, so there was little point in posting info just for myself to read.
      > 
      > -Dj
      > 
      > -- 
      > Dj Merrill - N1JOV
      > Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
      > Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
      > 
      ==========================
      =========
      ==========================
      =========
      ==========================
      =========
      ==========================
      =========
      > 
      > 
      > 
      








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