---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 12/23/12: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 11:26 AM - Re: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir (923te@att.net) 2. 03:32 PM - Re: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir (Gary Vogt) 3. 06:48 PM - Re: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir (FLYaDIVE) 4. 06:59 PM - Re: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir (FLYaDIVE) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 11:26:39 AM PST US From: 923te@att.net Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir If Mike can accomplish it and package it as a separate box I'd buy one and p uty Horizon tach back in On Dec 22, 2012, at 8:19 PM, "Dean White" wrote: The stock Electroair unit puts out a square wave that many electronic tachs c an process. However, the Horizon P1000 is looking for the induced spike on t he P-lead. So we are looking at modifying the output from the Electroair to mimic the induced spike. I don't think that it is a super high priority fo r Mike but hopefully one that will get done soon. Unfortunately, the Horizo n guys have been unwilling to tell us the amplitude and duration of the spik e their unit needs to trigger the RPM count. From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman- list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 923TE Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 5:15 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir I had to change to a Electronics International Tach for the LASAR. EI modifi es their tach to pick up the signal put out by the LASAR Maybe theirs would work with the EA? On Dec 22, 2012, at 6:35 PM, "Dean White" wrote: I am still working on this with Mike K at Electroair. From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman- list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Vogt Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 10:52 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir Oh, and I would like the EA ignition to have a usable RPM signal. From: "boxereighty@AOL.COM" Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 7:50 AM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir FWIW, the ElectroAir installation instructions recommends against any permanent magnet light weight starter and specifies the SkyTek as incompatible with starting with their electronic ignition energized because of the high current draw. The later version is OK but I have the PM version. I just don't get to start with the electronic ignition energized. I kept the impulse mag so starts are just like always. ________ There is a clever saying about telling someone not to do something that can't be done while he's doing it, but it slips my mind. Let's ask Dean and Larry what they think. They both have light weight starters, one 24 volt, one 12 volt. I installed them both. Unless the battery is dead or near dead, I can't think of a reason to worry about it. Come to think of it, if the battery is low and the ElectroAir is not putting out enough juice, the plane will still start just fine on the left mag if the engine cranks. Gary ________ I'm the one who posted the info on PM SkyTek incompatibility. Someone on the GG wanted advice on which SkyTek starter to chose. This wasn't "told" to me by Electroair personnel, it is found on page 1.5 of the FAA installation ma nual, revision 7, dated Nov 2012 and is available right now on the ElectroAi r website under "Tech Support". This same warning was also in revision 5 dat ed April 2012 pg 1.4 and this is the version of the manual that came with my unit. The reason for the caveats about the PM starters in ElectroAir instal lations are very clearly spelled out in that text and should be familiar to a nyone having an ElectroAir ignition installed on a Tiger. I have one of the P M starters and I'm not about to replace it but I stand forewarned of the eff ects of the PM starter/ElectroAir combination if my battery is the least bit low. Forewarned is forearmed. However, if I were replacing one of the OEM " boat anchor" starters today I would chose the non-PM version SkyTek offers a nd that is what prompted my comment on GG to the guy wanting advice on which to purchase. Other than changing my starter cable to higher gauge and simply starting as I have for 18 years on the left impulsed coupled mag I haven't had any real p roblems/changes with my current PM starter ElectroAir combo. Starting the t wo Tigers I've owned since 1988 has never been a problem whether hot or cold , hand propping or starter assisted (OEM or SkyTek). Improved starting capab ility was simply NOT the reason I paid for the ElectroAir unit installation t o begin with. However a complete knowledge of how these STC's interact is im portant for the pilot on the line and good to know for those in the market f or a new starter. Brent Smith N28386/1N1 wwwlow" target="_blank" href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.builder sb================== www.aeroelectric.com www.buildersbooks.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List http://forums.matronics.com ========================== ======== ctric.com >www.buildersbooks.com uilthelp.com matronics.com/contribution ========================== ======== t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List ========================== ======== cs.com ========================== ======== www.aeroelectric.com www.buildersbooks.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List http://forums.matronics.com ========================== ======== ========================== ======== ========================== ======== ========================== ======== ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:32:38 PM PST US From: Gary Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir That's the quote. =C2-I knew it went something like that.=0A=0A=0A_______ _________________________=0A From: 923TE <923te@att.net>=0ATo: "teamgrumman -list@matronics.com" =0ASent: Saturday, De cember 22, 2012 11:32 AM=0ASubject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Incompatibility o f Skytec PM with ElectroAir=0A =0A=0AIs this it?=0A=0A=0A=0A=9CPeople who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it. =9D=C2-=0A-=C2-George Bernard Shaw=0A=0A=0AFrom=0A=0Ahttp:// www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/5217.George_Bernard_Shaw=0A=0AOr from Old C hinese Proverb according to:=0Ahttp://paws.kettering.edu/~jhuggins/humor/qu otes.html=0A=0AOn Dec 21, 2012, at 10:23 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:=0A=0A=0AThere is a clever saying about telling someone not to do something that can't be done while he's doing it, but it slips my mind. =C2-=0A=0ALet's ask Dean and Larry what they think. =C2-They both have light weight starters, one 24 volt, one 12 volt. =C2-I installed them bot h.=C2-=0A=0AUnless the battery is dead or near dead, I can't think of a r eason to worry about it. =C2-Come to think of it, if the battery is low a nd the ElectroAir is not putting out enough juice, the plane will still sta rt just fine on the left mag if the engine cranks. =C2-=0A=0AGary=0A=0A =0A________________________________=0A From: "923te@att.net" <923te@att.net >=0ATo: "teamgrumman-list@matronics.com" =0ASent: Friday, December 21, 2012 6:45 PM=0ASubject: TeamGrumman-List: Inc ompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir=0A =0A--> TeamGrumman-List messag e posted by: 923te@att.net=0A=0AGary,=0AThis was posted on the other list b y a fellow Tiger owner. What do you think about what they told him? =0ANed =0A=0AFWIW, the ElectroAir installation instructions recommends against any permanent magnet light weight starter and specifies the SkyTek as incompat ible with starting with their electronic ignition energized because of the high current draw. The later version is OK but I have the PM version. I jus t don't get to start with the electronic ignition energized. I kept the imp ulse mag so starts are just like always on the Left mag and turn on the ele ctronic after startup.=0Awww.aeroelectric.==C2- =C2- * HomebuiltHELP ======================== ============0Aoelectric.com >www.buildersbooks.com ui lthelp.com matronics.com/contribution=0A=========== ======================== t" >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List=0A====== ==== cs.com ================== ====== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:05 PM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir From: FLYaDIVE Ned: I missed that posting - I don't see why the PM starter would cause any problems. It may draw more current during start up. The other starters range from 1.6 to 4 bHP. That is from 108.5 to 135.63 Amps. But, the electronic ignition only requires 1 or 2 Amps Max. And that is nothing when compared to the current draw of a starter. Les posts 2.4 bHP for a starter at 11 VDC. That equates to 162.76 Amps. So 1 or 2 Amps to run the ignition system is nothing in comparison. Starting with your rotating beacon on draws that much. Barry "Chop'd Liver" =================================== On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 9:45 PM, <923te@att.net> wrote: > > Gary, > This was posted on the other list by a fellow Tiger owner. What do you > think about what they told him? > Ned > > FWIW, the ElectroAir installation instructions recommends against any > permanent magnet light weight starter and specifies the SkyTek as > incompatible with starting with their electronic ignition energized because > of the high current draw. The later version is OK but I have the PM > version. I just don't get to start with the electronic ignition energized. > I kept the impulse mag so starts are just like always on the Left mag and > turn on the electronic after startup. > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir From: FLYaDIVE Ned: I am catching up on my reading... I have been off-line for 5 days. I see it is not a current draw that is the issue with the electronic ignition. Well, not in a current sense. As Les points out it is the drop in buss voltage which causes the electronic ignition to go crazy. Barry ================================= On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 9:45 PM, <923te@att.net> wrote: > > Gary, > This was posted on the other list by a fellow Tiger owner. What do you > think about what they told him? > Ned > > FWIW, the ElectroAir installation instructions recommends against any > permanent magnet light weight starter and specifies the SkyTek as > incompatible with starting with their electronic ignition energized because > of the high current draw. The later version is OK but I have the PM > version. I just don't get to start with the electronic ignition energized. > I kept the impulse mag so starts are just like always on the Left mag and > turn on the electronic after startup. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message teamgrumman-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.