Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:13 AM - engine won't start (Gary L Vogt)
2. 09:25 AM - Re: engine won't start (George Douglas)
3. 09:32 AM - Re: engine won't start (Mel Beckman)
4. 09:32 AM - Re: engine won't start (Mel Beckman)
5. 09:37 AM - Re: engine won't start (Mel Beckman)
6. 01:14 PM - Re: engine won't start (Linn)
7. 06:10 PM - Re: engine won't start (923te@att.net)
8. 06:44 PM - Re: engine won't start (FLYaDIVE)
Message 1
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| Subject: | engine won't start |
Ok, I'm officially stumped.-=0A=0AI installed an engine in a plane with 1
600 total time, 500 hours on LyCon prepped cylinders, rebuilt mags, new har
ness, replaced the P-lead wires from the switch to the mags.-=0A=0AEngine
started right up. Flew great for 6+ hours.-=0A=0AThen, failed a right ma
g check at an airport 7 miles from Auburn. Engine was hard to start. Replac
ed the mag with a new mag. Same problem. Removed the P-lead. Engine was smo
oth. The engine analyzer showed good temps and EGTs. Flew to Auburn.-=0A
=0ATroubleshot P-leads by disconnecting for the mags and testing the impeda
nce between the P-lead and the ground. Noticed the right mag impedance vari
ed with pressure on the switch from open to shorted. Also, the impedance va
ried in the off position.=0A=0AReplaced the switch with known good switch.
Double checked P-lead to ground. Tried to start the engine. Won't start.-
=0A=0AChecked for fuel. Got fuel. Checked spark at plug. Got spark. Engine
won't start.-=0A=0AWhat gives? Any ideas are welcome. I don't get it.=0A
Message 2
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| Subject: | engine won't start |
The only other thing that might be missing is compression or spark at the
right time, providing that the spark and fuel you mentioned is adequate.
Best Regards,
George Douglas
Amsoil Distributor
office 407-856-1564
toll free 800-887-6698
cell 321-663-5391
www.oilhelp.com
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary L
Vogt
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 12:13 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: engine won't start
Ok, I'm officially stumped.
I installed an engine in a plane with 1600 total time, 500 hours on LyCon
prepped cylinders, rebuilt mags, new harness, replaced the P-lead wires from
the switch to the mags.
Engine started right up. Flew great for 6+ hours.
Then, failed a right mag check at an airport 7 miles from Auburn. Engine was
hard to start. Replaced the mag with a new mag. Same problem. Removed the
P-lead. Engine was smooth. The engine analyzer showed good temps and EGTs.
Flew to Auburn.
Troubleshot P-leads by disconnecting for the mags and testing the impedance
between the P-lead and the ground. Noticed the right mag impedance varied
with pressure on the switch from open to shorted. Also, the impedance varied
in the off position.
Replaced the switch with known good switch. Double checked P-lead to ground.
Tried to start the engine. Won't start.
Checked for fuel. Got fuel. Checked spark at plug. Got spark. Engine won't
start.
What gives? Any ideas are welcome. I don't get it.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: engine won't start |
Also, have you checked the resistance from the mag primary winding to the ai
rframe ground with the p-lead disconnected? Iy should be infinite. If not, i
t would be due to an internal short. That could affect both mags if they wer
e installed incorrectly.
I assume you have already verified fuel at the carb (remove the air filter) d
uring start. Also, it wouldn't hurt to pull the plugs an check for wetness o
r fouling.
-mel via cell
On Mar 2, 2013, at 9:24 AM, "George Douglas" <George@oilhelp.com> wrote:
> The only other thing that might be missing is compression or spark at the r
ight time, providing that the spark and fuel you mentioned is adequate.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> George Douglas
> Amsoil Distributor
> office 407-856-1564
> toll free 800-887-6698
> cell 321-663-5391
> www.oilhelp.com
>
> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumma
n-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary L Vogt
> Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 12:13 PM
> To: Teamgrumman List
> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: engine won't start
>
> Ok, I'm officially stumped.
>
> I installed an engine in a plane with 1600 total time, 500 hours on LyCon p
repped cylinders, rebuilt mags, new harness, replaced the P-lead wires from t
he switch to the mags.
>
> Engine started right up. Flew great for 6+ hours.
>
> Then, failed a right mag check at an airport 7 miles from Auburn. Engine w
as hard to start. Replaced the mag with a new mag. Same problem. Removed the
P-lead. Engine was smooth. The engine analyzer showed good temps and EGTs.
Flew to Auburn.
>
> Troubleshot P-leads by disconnecting for the mags and testing the impedanc
e between the P-lead and the ground. Noticed the right mag impedance varied w
ith pressure on the switch from open to shorted. Also, the impedance varied i
n the off position.
>
> Replaced the switch with known good switch. Double checked P-lead to groun
d. Tried to start the engine. Won't start.
>
> Checked for fuel. Got fuel. Checked spark at plug. Got spark. Engine won't
start.
>
> What gives? Any ideas are welcome. I don't get it.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: engine won't start |
Also, have you checked the resistance from the mag primary winding to the ai
rframe ground with the p-lead disconnected? Iy should be infinite. If not, i
t would be due to an internal short. That could affect both mags if they wer
e installed incorrectly.
I assume you have already verified fuel at the carb (remove the air filter) d
uring start. Also, it wouldn't hurt to pull the plugs an check for wetness o
r fouling.
-mel via cell
On Mar 2, 2013, at 9:24 AM, "George Douglas" <George@oilhelp.com> wrote:
> The only other thing that might be missing is compression or spark at the r
ight time, providing that the spark and fuel you mentioned is adequate.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> George Douglas
> Amsoil Distributor
> office 407-856-1564
> toll free 800-887-6698
> cell 321-663-5391
> www.oilhelp.com
>
> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumma
n-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary L Vogt
> Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 12:13 PM
> To: Teamgrumman List
> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: engine won't start
>
> Ok, I'm officially stumped.
>
> I installed an engine in a plane with 1600 total time, 500 hours on LyCon p
repped cylinders, rebuilt mags, new harness, replaced the P-lead wires from t
he switch to the mags.
>
> Engine started right up. Flew great for 6+ hours.
>
> Then, failed a right mag check at an airport 7 miles from Auburn. Engine w
as hard to start. Replaced the mag with a new mag. Same problem. Removed the
P-lead. Engine was smooth. The engine analyzer showed good temps and EGTs.
Flew to Auburn.
>
> Troubleshot P-leads by disconnecting for the mags and testing the impedanc
e between the P-lead and the ground. Noticed the right mag impedance varied w
ith pressure on the switch from open to shorted. Also, the impedance varied i
n the off position.
>
> Replaced the switch with known good switch. Double checked P-lead to groun
d. Tried to start the engine. Won't start.
>
> Checked for fuel. Got fuel. Checked spark at plug. Got spark. Engine won't
start.
>
> What gives? Any ideas are welcome. I don't get it.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
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>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: engine won't start |
Sorry, I missed that you checked fuel and spark already. If you get spark, m
ags are obviously not grounded out. Have you inspected all the plugs for fou
ling?
-mel via cell
On Mar 2, 2013, at 9:31 AM, Mel Beckman <mel@becknet.com> wrote:
> Also, have you checked the resistance from the mag primary winding to the a
irframe ground with the p-lead disconnected? Iy should be infinite. If not, i
t would be due to an internal short. That could affect both mags if they wer
e installed incorrectly.
>
> I assume you have already verified fuel at the carb (remove the air filter
) during start. Also, it wouldn't hurt to pull the plugs an check for wetnes
s or fouling.
>
> -mel via cell
>
> On Mar 2, 2013, at 9:24 AM, "George Douglas" <George@oilhelp.com> wrote:
>
>> The only other thing that might be missing is compression or spark at the
right time, providing that the spark and fuel you mentioned is adequate.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> George Douglas
>> Amsoil Distributor
>> office 407-856-1564
>> toll free 800-887-6698
>> cell 321-663-5391
>> www.oilhelp.com
>>
>> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumm
an-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary L Vogt
>> Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 12:13 PM
>> To: Teamgrumman List
>> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: engine won't start
>>
>> Ok, I'm officially stumped.
>>
>> I installed an engine in a plane with 1600 total time, 500 hours on LyCon
prepped cylinders, rebuilt mags, new harness, replaced the P-lead wires fro
m the switch to the mags.
>>
>> Engine started right up. Flew great for 6+ hours.
>>
>> Then, failed a right mag check at an airport 7 miles from Auburn. Engine w
as hard to start. Replaced the mag with a new mag. Same problem. Removed the
P-lead. Engine was smooth. The engine analyzer showed good temps and EGTs.
Flew to Auburn.
>>
>> Troubleshot P-leads by disconnecting for the mags and testing the impedan
ce between the P-lead and the ground. Noticed the right mag impedance varied
with pressure on the switch from open to shorted Also, the impedance varied
in the off position.
>>
>> Replaced the switch with known good switch. Double checked P-lead to grou
nd. Tried to start the engine. Won't start.
>>
>> Checked for fuel. Got fuel. Checked spark at plug. Got spark. Engine won'
t start.
>>
>> What gives? Any ideas are welcome. I don't get it.
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>> =========================
=========
>> t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
>> =========================
=========
>> cs.com
>> =========================
=========
>> matronics.com/contribution
>> =========================
=========
>>
>
>
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: engine won't start |
Gary .... you only need three things to start that engine .... fuel,
air, ignition. And you know that ....
since everything you replaced involves the ignition ..... I'd make sure
that:
The switch really does unground the P-lead ..... checked at the impulse mag.
The impulse mag makes the 'clank' noise as the prop is pulled over TDC
...... impulse is working and is timed right.
Pull a lead off an impulse-connected plug and check for spark as in the
test above.
I think you'll find a problem by now but next comes fuel ......
Check for fuel leaking out the intake as you over-prime and/or clean the
primer nozzles. Try pushing in the primer as it's being cranked.
Check in with the new Pope ;-) .... I'm outta ideas ...... lemme know
what you do find.
Linn
On 3/2/2013 12:12 PM, Gary L Vogt wrote:
> Ok, I'm officially stumped.
>
> I installed an engine in a plane with 1600 total time, 500 hours on
> LyCon prepped cylinders, rebuilt mags, new harness, replaced the
> P-lead wires from the switch to the mags.
>
> Engine started right up. Flew great for 6+ hours.
>
> Then, failed a right mag check at an airport 7 miles from Auburn.
> Engine was hard to start. Replaced the mag with a new mag. Same
> problem. Removed the P-lead. Engine was smooth. The engine analyzer
> showed good temps and EGTs. Flew to Auburn.
>
> Troubleshot P-leads by disconnecting for the mags and testing the
> impedance between the P-lead and the ground. Noticed the right mag
> impedance varied with pressure on the switch from open to shorted.
> Also, the impedance varied in the off position.
>
> Replaced the switch with known good switch. Double checked P-lead to
> ground. Tried to start the engine. Won't start.
>
> Checked for fuel. Got fuel. Checked spark at plug. Got spark. Engine
> won't start.
>
> What gives? Any ideas are welcome. I don't get it.
> *
>
>
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: engine won't start |
The plugs aren't oil fouled are they?
On Mar 2, 2013, at 11:12 AM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ok, I'm officially stumped.
I installed an engine in a plane with 1600 total time, 500 hours on LyCon pr
epped cylinders, rebuilt mags, new harness, replaced the P-lead wires from t
he switch to the mags.
Engine started right up. Flew great for 6+ hours.
Then, failed a right mag check at an airport 7 miles from Auburn. Engine was
hard to start. Replaced the mag with a new mag. Same problem. Removed the P
-lead. Engine was smooth. The engine analyzer showed good temps and EGTs. Fl
ew to Auburn.
Troubleshot P-leads by disconnecting for the mags and testing the impedance b
etween the P-lead and the ground. Noticed the right mag impedance varied wit
h pressure on the switch from open to shorted. Also, the impedance varied in
the off position.
Replaced the switch with known good switch. Double checked P-lead to ground.
Tried to start the engine. Won't start.
Checked for fuel. Got fuel. Checked spark at plug. Got spark. Engine won't s
tart.
What gives? Any ideas are welcome. I don't get it.
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: engine won't start |
Gary:
It sure sounds like there is a problem with the Mag Switch or the wiring
behind the Mag Switch. There is an AD on some BENDIX Mag Switches.
When you say Mag failed at Mag Check.. How did it fail? Was it just a big
drop in RPM or was it a total loss of the Mag?
I'm sure you know, without being there, there are too many variables.
Since there were many things changed the only thing you can do is check
each thing that was changed/touched:
Spark plugs
Mag Wires - Hand trace each on the the proper spark plug.
Mag Harness Cap - Is it keyed to the Mag correctly.
Disconnect BOTH the P-leads - Start the engine. Does it start?
Now for the real far fetched possibilities:-
Is there fuel in both tanks?
Is there fuel flow from EACH of the tanks? I read of one guy that had
fuel in both tanks but only flew off one tank - Then one day he switched
tanks ONLY to find the fuel line for that tank was clogged.
Was the Fuel Selector Rebuild recently?
Any CARB issues? Fuel Filter, out of adjustment or Broken Cables/Linkage?
Boost pump - Clogged?
Primer Lines - Clogged?
Primer - In need of maintenance, Leaky O ring or no lube?
Back to the close fetched:-
This is my own person gripe against the FAA and manufactures - We have
REDUNDANT systems on the plane for almost EVERYTHING - But they allow us to
ATTEMPT to fly with ONLY ONE Impulse Mag.
Since the Mags were rebuilt - I would definitely look at them again.
I would also talk the owner into dual Impulse Mags.
MAGS:-
Timing - Pin Set position - Mag Gear IN the engine [I know way out there]
How does that Sherlock Homes quote go: Once you eliminate the impossible
what ever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
========================================
On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 12:12 PM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Ok, I'm officially stumped.
>
> I installed an engine in a plane with 1600 total time, 500 hours on LyCon
> prepped cylinders, rebuilt mags, new harness, replaced the P-lead wires
> from the switch to the mags.
>
> Engine started right up. Flew great for 6+ hours.
>
> Then, failed a right mag check at an airport 7 miles from Auburn. Engine
> was hard to start. Replaced the mag with a new mag. Same problem. Removed
> the P-lead. Engine was smooth. The engine analyzer showed good temps and
> EGTs. Flew to Auburn.
>
> Troubleshot P-leads by disconnecting for the mags and testing the
> impedance between the P-lead and the ground. Noticed the right mag
> impedance varied with pressure on the switch from open to shorted. Also,
> the impedance varied in the off position.
>
> Replaced the switch with known good switch. Double checked P-lead to
> ground. Tried to start the engine. Won't start.
>
> Checked for fuel. Got fuel. Checked spark at plug. Got spark. Engine won't
> start.
>
> What gives? Any ideas are welcome. I don't get it.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
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