Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:03 AM - Engine won't start (Gary L Vogt)
2. 06:55 AM - Re: Engine won't start (923TE)
3. 07:04 AM - Re: Engine won't start (923TE)
4. 07:09 AM - Re: Engine won't start (923TE)
5. 07:33 AM - Re: Engine won't start (BILL9725@AOL.COM)
6. 08:11 AM - Re: Engine won't start (923TE)
7. 08:12 AM - Re: Engine won't start (BILL9725@AOL.COM)
8. 10:20 PM - Re: Engine won't start (Gary L Vogt)
9. 10:31 PM - Re: Engine won't start (Dean M. White)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Engine won't start |
Today we removed the plugs and checked the gaps. All plugs clean and a like tan
color. Gaps at 0.018 to 0.019 inches on all plugs.
Checked compressions, 79, 78, 78, 77
Removed the mags. They go to Magneto Andy tomorrow.
Gary
Sent from my iPad
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Engine won't start |
Probably far fetched that this would apply here but Mike Busch's article in M
arch 2013 Sport Aviation found a faulty Mag timing device that led to timing
to be set too high causing hard starts and high CHT's
Read it here starting on page 30 lower right corner
http://www.sportaviationonline.org/sportaviation/201303/m3/Page.action?lm=
1361855698000&pg=32
Again grasping at straws but
By chance did you check spark plug resistance?
http://www.chanceaviation.com/resources/ChanceAviation-Tempest-SparkPlugCard
.pdf
Sacramento Sky Ranch may have some insight on the last paragraph of this pag
e
http://www.sacskyranch.com/eng37.htm
Where he points to the carb having too lean a mixture:
"Nothing you do will fix it. Mag check -- engine coughs and sputters on left
magneto.
Replace magneto - still rough
Check ignition harness - checks fine - still rough
Replace "P" lead - still rough
So lets replace the harness "just in case" --Success engine runs fine. 10 ho
urs later problem returns!
One other item interest; can't lean engine, as soon as the mixture is pulled
back the engine sputters.
So what's the solution?
The big hint here is the mixture control. It points to the carburetor and on
ly the carburetor. But why just on the left magneto? Lets say you have crapp
y fuel atomization and fuel distribution. Not real bad, but just bad enough.
With two spark plugs firing it ignites a leaner mixture and the engine runs
fine. But lets impar the ignition system slightly by weakening it. Turn off
1 magneto and now try to ignite the mixture - it can't do it as well and th
e engine coughs and shudders. Lean out the mixture just slightly and now eve
n with sparks flying out of two spark plugs it can't ignite the mixture ever
y time. It misses a few strokes then enough fuel has gathered that it ignite
s and burns and then the cycle repeats. The carburetor nozzle was replaced a
nd now the engine runs fine."
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Engine won't start |
More good things to check for Sac Sky Ranch:
http://www.sacskyranch.com/eng16.htm
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Engine won't start |
One more
http://www.sacskyranch.com/eng39.htm
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Engine won't start |
Want to mention in case anyone has not heard, Sac Sky Ranch is closing the
end of this month, March. Owner is retiring and sons do not want to
continue business! Very sad and leaves a hole in choices for everyone.
Bill Stigile
In a message dated 3/4/2013 6:55:13 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
923te@att.net writes:
Probably far fetched that this would apply here but Mike Busch's article
in March 2013 Sport Aviation found a faulty Mag timing device that led to
timing to be set too high causing hard starts and high CHT's
Read it here starting on page 30 lower right corner
_http://www.sportaviationonline.org/sportaviation/201303/m3/Page.action?lm=1
361855698000&pg=32_
(http://www.sportaviationonline.org/sportaviation/201303/m3/Page.action?lm=1361855698000&pg=32)
Again grasping at straws but
By chance did you check spark plug resistance?
_http://www.chanceaviation.com/resources/ChanceAviation-Tempest-SparkPlugCar
d.pdf_
(http://www.chanceaviation.com/resources/ChanceAviation-Tempest-SparkPlugCard.pdf)
Sacramento Sky Ranch may have some insight on the last paragraph of this
page
_http://www.sacskyranch.com/eng37.htm_
(http://www.sacskyranch.com/eng37.htm)
Where he points to the carb having too lean a mixture:
"Nothing you do will fix it. Mag check -- engine coughs and sputters on
left magneto.
* Replace magneto - still rough
* Check ignition harness - checks fine - still rough
* Replace "P" lead - still rough
So lets replace the harness "just in case" --Success engine runs fine. 10
hours later problem returns!
One other item interest; can't lean engine, as soon as the mixture is
pulled back the engine sputters.
So what's the solution?
The big hint here is the mixture control. It points to the carburetor and
only the carburetor. But why just on the left magneto? Lets say you have
crappy fuel atomization and fuel distribution. Not real bad, but just bad
enough. With two spark plugs firing it ignites a leaner mixture and the engine
runs fine. But lets impar the ignition system slightly by weakening it.
Turn off 1 magneto and now try to ignite the mixture - it can't do it as well
and the engine coughs and shudders. Lean out the mixture just slightly and
now even with sparks flying out of two spark plugs it can't ignite the
mixture every time. It misses a few strokes then enough fuel has gathered that
it ignites and burns and then the cycle repeats. The carburetor nozzle was
replaced and now the engine runs fine."
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Engine won't start |
Do you know if their website will continue?
On Mar 4, 2013, at 9:32 AM, BILL9725@AOL.COM wrote:
Want to mention in case anyone has not heard, Sac Sky Ranch is closing the e
nd of this month, March. Owner is retiring and sons do not want to continue
business! Very sad and leaves a hole in choices for everyone.
Bill Stigile
In a message dated 3/4/2013 6:55:13 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, 923te@att.ne
t writes:
Probably far fetched that this would apply here but Mike Busch's article in M
arch 2013 Sport Aviation found a faulty Mag timing device that led to tim
ing to be set too high causing hard starts and high CHT's
Read it here starting on page 30 lower right corner
http://www.sportaviationonline.org/sportaviation/201303/m3/Page.action?lm=
1361855698000&pg=32
Again grasping at straws but
By chance did you check spark plug resistance?
http://www.chanceaviation.com/resources/ChanceAviation-Tempest-SparkPlugCard
.pdf
Sacramento Sky Ranch may have some insight on the last paragraph of this pag
e
http://www.sacskyranch.com/eng37.htm
Where he points to the carb having too lean a mixture:
"Nothing you do will fix it. Mag check -- engine coughs and sputters on left
magneto.
Replace magneto - still rough
Check ignition harness - checks fine - still rough
Replace "P" lead - still rough
So lets replace the harness "just in case" --Success engine runs fine. 10 ho
urs later problem returns!
One other item interest; can't lean engine, as soon as the mixture is pulled
back the engine sputters.
So what's the solution?
The big hint here is the mixture control. It points to the carburetor and on
ly the carburetor. But why just on the left magneto? Lets say you have crapp
y fuel atomization and fuel distribution. Not real bad, but just bad enough.
With two spark plugs firing it ignites a leaner mixture and the engine runs
fine. But lets impar the ignition system slightly by weakening it. Turn off
1 magneto and now try to ignite the mixture - it can't do it as well and th
e engine coughs and shudders. Lean out the mixture just slightly and now eve
n with sparks flying out of two spark plugs it can't ignite the mixture e
very time. It misses a few strokes then enough fuel has gathered that it ign
ites and burns and then the cycle repeats. The carburetor nozzle was replace
d and now the engine runs fine."
st href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========================
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==========================
========
==========================
========
==========================
========
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Engine won't start |
They are selling off all merchandise and not replacing anything so I would
assume no.
Bill
In a message dated 3/4/2013 8:11:53 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
923te@att.net writes:
Do you know if their website will continue?
On Mar 4, 2013, at 9:32 AM, _BILL9725@AOL.COM_ (mailto:BILL9725@AOL.COM)
wrote:
Want to mention in case anyone has not heard, Sac Sky Ranch is closing the
end of this month, March. Owner is retiring and sons do not want to
continue business! Very sad and leaves a hole in choices for everyone.
Bill Stigile
In a message dated 3/4/2013 6:55:13 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
_923te@att.net_ (mailto:923te@att.net) writes:
Probably far fetched that this would apply here but Mike Busch's article
in March 2013 Sport Aviation found a faulty Mag timing device that led to
timing to be set too high causing hard starts and high CHT's
Read it here starting on page 30 lower right corner
_http://www.sportaviationonline.org/sportaviation/201303/m3/Page.action?lm=1
361855698000&pg=32_
(http://www.sportaviationonline.org/sportaviation/201303/m3/Page.action?lm=1361855698000&pg=32)
Again grasping at straws but
By chance did you check spark plug resistance?
_http://www.chanceaviation.com/resources/ChanceAviation-Tempest-SparkPlugCar
d.pdf_
(http://www.chanceaviation.com/resources/ChanceAviation-Tempest-SparkPlugCard.pdf)
Sacramento Sky Ranch may have some insight on the last paragraph of this
page
_http://www.sacskyranch.com/eng37.htm_
(http://www.sacskyranch.com/eng37.htm)
Where he points to the carb having too lean a mixture:
"Nothing you do will fix it. Mag check -- engine coughs and sputters on
left magneto.
* Replace magneto - still rough
* Check ignition harness - checks fine - still rough
* Replace "P" lead - still rough
So lets replace the harness "just in case" --Success engine runs fine. 10
hours later problem returns!
One other item interest; can't lean engine, as soon as the mixture is
pulled back the engine sputters.
So what's the solution?
The big hint here is the mixture control. It points to the carburetor and
only the carburetor. But why just on the left magneto? Lets say you have
crappy fuel atomization and fuel distribution. Not real bad, but just bad
enough. With two spark plugs firing it ignites a leaner mixture and the engine
runs fine. But lets impar the ignition system slightly by weakening it.
Turn off 1 magneto and now try to ignite the mixture - it can't do it as well
and the engine coughs and shudders. Lean out the mixture just slightly and
now even with sparks flying out of two spark plugs it can't ignite the
mixture every time. It misses a few strokes then enough fuel has gathered that
it ignites and burns and then the cycle repeats. The carburetor nozzle was
replaced and now the engine runs fine."
st href="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List)
">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List)
_s.matronics.com/_ (http://s.matronics.com/)
">_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
p://www.matronics.com/contribution">_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
D=========
(mip://0a660e20/3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List")
D=========
(mip://0a660e20/3D"http://forums.matronics.com")
D=========
(mip://0a660e20/3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution")
D=========
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Engine won't start |
Today.
Removed both mags from a customers plane and installed them in the Tiger. St
arted on 2 blades.
That means the overhauled mags are AFU.
At least we found ute problem.
Gary
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 4, 2013, at 8:12 AM, BILL9725@AOL.COM wrote:
> They are selling off all merchandise and not replacing anything so I would
assume no. Ustomers
>
> Bill
>
> In a message dated 3/4/2013 8:11:53 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, 923te@att.
net writes:
> Do you know if their website will continue?
>
>
> On Mar 4, 2013, at 9:32 AM, BILL9725@AOL.COM wrote:
>
> Want to mention in case anyone has not heard, Sac Sky Ranch is closing the
end of this month, March. Owner is retiring and sons do not want to contin
ue business! Very sad and leaves a hole in choices for everyone.
>
> Bill Stigile
>
> In a message dated 3/4/2013 6:55:13 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, 923te@att.
net writes:
> Probably far fetched that this would apply here but Mike Busch's article i
n March 2013 Sport Aviation found a faulty Mag timing device that led to tim
ing to be set too high causing hard starts and high CHT's
>
> Read it here starting on page 30 lower right corner
>
> http://www.sportaviationonline.org/sportaviation/201303/m3/Page.action?lm=
1361855698000&pg=32
>
> Again grasping at straws but
> By chance did you check spark plug resistance?
>
> http://www.chanceaviation.com/resources/ChanceAviation-Tempest-SparkPlugCa
rd.pdf
>
> Sacramento Sky Ranch may have some insight on the last paragraph of this p
age
>
> http://www.sacskyranch.com/eng37.htm
>
> Where he points to the carb having too lean a mixture:
>
> "Nothing you do will fix it. Mag check -- engine coughs and sputters on le
ft magneto.
>
>
> Replace magneto - still rough
> Check ignition harness - checks fine - still rough
> Replace "P" lead - still rough
>
> So lets replace the harness "just in case" --Success engine runs fine. 10 h
ours later problem returns!
> One other item interest; can't lean engine, as soon as the mixture is pull
ed back the engine sputters.
>
> So what's the solution?
>
> The big hint here is the mixture control. It points to the carburetor and o
nly the carburetor. But why just on the left magneto? Lets say you have crap
py fuel atomization and fuel distribution. Not real bad, but just bad enough
. With two spark plugs firing it ignites a leaner mixture and the engine run
s fine. But lets impar the ignition system slightly by weakening it. Turn of
f 1 magneto and now try to ignite the mixture - it can't do it as well and t
he engine coughs and shudders. Lean out the mixture just slightly and now ev
en with sparks flying out of two spark plugs it can't ignite the mixture eve
ry time. It misses a few strokes then enough fuel has gathered that it ignit
es and burns and then the cycle repeats. The carburetor nozzle was replaced a
nd now the engine runs fine."
>
>
>
>
> st href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www
.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
> s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
> p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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ator?TeamGrumman-List"'>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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://www.matronics.com/contribution
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>
>
>
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>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Engine won't start |
Get rid of right mag - go with electronic ignition.
Dean White (Tiger N81166)
Edmonds, WA 98026
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary L
Vogt
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Engine won't start
Today.
Removed both mags from a customers plane and installed them in the
Tiger. Started on 2 blades.
That means the overhauled mags are AFU.
At least we found ute problem.
Gary
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 4, 2013, at 8:12 AM, BILL9725@AOL.COM wrote:
They are selling off all merchandise and not replacing anything so I
would assume no. Ustomers
Bill
In a message dated 3/4/2013 8:11:53 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
923te@att.net writes:
Do you know if their website will continue?
On Mar 4, 2013, at 9:32 AM, BILL9725@AOL.COM wrote:
Want to mention in case anyone has not heard, Sac Sky Ranch is closing
the end of this month, March. Owner is retiring and sons do not want to
continue business! Very sad and leaves a hole in choices for everyone.
Bill Stigile
In a message dated 3/4/2013 6:55:13 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
923te@att.net writes:
Probably far fetched that this would apply here but Mike Busch's article
in March 2013 Sport Aviation found a faulty Mag timing device that led
to timing to be set too high causing hard starts and high CHT's
Read it here starting on page 30 lower right corner
http://www.sportaviationonline.org/sportaviation/201303/m3/Page.action?lm
=1361855698000
<http://www.sportaviationonline.org/sportaviation/201303/m3/Page.action?l
m=1361855698000&pg=32> &pg=32
Again grasping at straws but
By chance did you check spark plug resistance?
http://www.chanceaviation.com/resources/ChanceAviation-Tempest-SparkPlugC
ard.pdf
Sacramento Sky Ranch may have some insight on the last paragraph of this
page
http://www.sacskyranch.com/eng37.htm
Where he points to the carb having too lean a mixture:
"Nothing you do will fix it. Mag check -- engine coughs and sputters on
left magneto.
* Replace magneto - still rough
* Check ignition harness - checks fine - still rough
* Replace "P" lead - still rough
So lets replace the harness "just in case" --Success engine runs fine.
10 hours later problem returns!
One other item interest; can't lean engine, as soon as the mixture is
pulled back the engine sputters.
So what's the solution?
The big hint here is the mixture control. It points to the carburetor
and only the carburetor. But why just on the left magneto? Lets say you
have crappy fuel atomization and fuel distribution. Not real bad, but
just bad enough. With two spark plugs firing it ignites a leaner mixture
and the engine runs fine. But lets impar the ignition system slightly by
weakening it. Turn off 1 magneto and now try to ignite the mixture - it
can't do it as well and the engine coughs and shudders. Lean out the
mixture just slightly and now even with sparks flying out of two spark
plugs it can't ignite the mixture every time. It misses a few strokes
then enough fuel has gathered that it ignites and burns and then the
cycle repeats. The carburetor nozzle was replaced and now the engine
runs fine."
st
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
<http://forums.matronics.com/>
p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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