Today's Message Index:
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1. 12:17 PM - Re: Need 30 year update (Gary L Vogt)
2. 12:36 PM - Re: Need 30 year update (Dan Veeneman)
3. 07:59 PM - Re: Need 30 year update (cannuck)
4. 09:22 PM - Re: Need 30 year update (Gary L Vogt)
5. 09:22 PM - Re: Re: Need 30 year update (Gary L Vogt)
6. 09:30 PM - Re: Re: Need 30 year update (Bob Hodo)
7. 09:57 PM - Re: Need 30 year update (discover)
8. 10:09 PM - Re: Re: Need 30 year update (923TE)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Need 30 year update |
Cannuck,,=0A=0AJudging by your spelling and grammar, I know who you aren't.
-{smile} -=0A=0AEveryone quotes 75% power speeds and for the life of m
e, I've never understood why. -I am either going to fly fast or land. -
The only time I've gone for lowest possible fuel flow is when I can see I'l
l be 30 minutes shy of fuel at my destination. -=0A=0AThat said, wide ope
n throttle and 2950 rpm at 1000 msl and tweaking everything, I could squeez
e 159-160 knots TAS out of my Tiger. -154 knots TAS was routine; at 2800
rpm. -The engine had a sweet spot at 2800 rpm. -I had my TIger to 17,80
0' and still climbing at 300 fpm on an average day. -Straight and level,
TAS was 155 knots at 2650.=0A=0AA clean, light Tiger with a mid-time engine
will do 144-146 knots TAS with no antennas or steps. -=0A=0AHorsepower i
s the key. -Cleanliness is the key. -Lightness is the key. -=0AI had
LyCon build a roller engine for a customer. -I let them do everything tha
t was legal and would make power. -The engine cost $26,000+. -The resul
t: 219 hp at 2700 rpm. And it wasn't even broken in. -=0A=0AForget the IO
390. -It's too big and too heavy. -Same with the 200 hp -C1C. -Beside
s, my new cowling is so tight that the angle valve won't fit. -=0A=0AI'm
working on an IO360, 180 hp, for my Tiger. -Constant speed prop. -Is it
worth it? -I don't know. -I may not like like. -I will like FI and g
etting rid of carb heat, however. -=0A=0AMT prop is not any faster, strai
ght and level (climb and descent are in a different world entirely). -I'l
l be using a Scimitar Hartzell prop. -=0A=0ABTW, Ken can build a 411 cubi
c inch IO360; IO411. -Makes 240hp without even trying. -=0A=0A=0A______
__________________________=0A From: cannuck <pmdolan@sasktel.net>=0ATo: tea
mgrumman-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 2:19 PM=0ASubje
ct: TeamGrumman-List: Need 30 year update=0A =0A--> TeamGrumman-List messag
e posted by: "cannuck" <pmdolan@sasktel.net>=0A=0ANot a typo, three zero, n
ot three.=0A=0AI sold my Tiger (0449) 30 years ago.- I still have my Yank
ee (0409), but it was parked in the trees 35 years ago, so that doesn't rea
lly count.- I was one of the founding year members at AYA, but when surfi
ng around to try to catch up to the AA5B world, I ran into this site - and
it seems there is a bit of a mod-crazy crowd here (so I should feel right a
t home).- So, if I ask some questions that make you wonder if I have been
living under a rock for 3 decades, that is because I have been living unde
r a rock for 3 decades.AA=0A=0AThere are a few specific things that have me
very interested in finding out what has happened with AA5 mods.- When I
left the fold, there was the A4K and original prop - and that was about it.
- What little speed I could scrape up came from rigging, sealing cracks a
nd seams, removing steps, keeping engine baffles tight, gutting the muffler
and washing the bugs off.- I had a bit of a knack for doing extremely lo
ng, very high altitude flights (even though my name is not here, someone co
uld get my e-mail address, so I won't tell you HOW high) with it, and manag
ed a 143 knot cruise @ 75% (on DME then) full fuel, solo.- I miss the eco
nomy, speed, climb, ceiling, payload and reliability of that airplane in al
l of the rented junk I have had to drive ever since.=0A=0AI always wanted a
BIT more HP.- I see there are quite a number of people holding STCs to d
iddle the engine room, including a 200HP/10:1 mod.- I do remember a one-o
ff that had an 0-540 back in the day, but that was NOT a good solution to t
he need.- So tell me:- why hasn't anyone shoved an IO-390 under the cow
l yet?- Now THAT, with a custom carbon cowling and Powerflow exhaust woul
d get my blood boiling.=0A=0AThen, there is that MT propeller.- Someone p
lease tell me about it.- Is this thing variable speed?- Is it electric
or hydraulic control?- What does it weigh?- What does it do for perform
ance?- Their website is devoid of any useful information.=0A=0AThere seem
s to be a lack of uptake on LoPresti WOW cowlings.- Seems like a lot of p
otential COULD be had, but I seldom see them (nor the MT prop) on airplanes
listed for sale.- These are common as dirt in the Comanche and Twinkie w
orld.=0A=0AWhat realistically IS the "state of the art" for 75% cruise TAS
today?=0A=0A--------=0AAA1 and AA5B former (future?) owner=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARe
ad this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p
=========================0A
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Adm
=====
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Need 30 year update |
On 3/11/2013 3:16 PM, Gary L Vogt wrote:
> I'm working on an IO360, 180 hp, for my Tiger.
This is something I haven't understood. Fuel injection has been
standard in automobiles for decades now, eliminating the hassles with a
carb and improving efficiency. Why isn't it more prevalent in
single-engine airplanes? Is it just because the general aviation fleet
is so old and doing the swap is too much (paper)work?
Cheers,
Dan
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Need 30 year update |
Ned: thanks for the post. What exactly can be LEGALLY done with an 0-360 - or
better yet IO-360 to optimize as you mentioned from Lycon??
I imagine Ken's 411 CID engine does not exist in the world of STC of PMA parts??
MOT up here is very touchy about these things.
Dan: not only are the engines old, so is the technology of the approved hardware.
while the regulatory burden is a giant PITA, watch the world of aero diesels
for some much more current tech hitting the skies.
--------
AA1 and AA5B former (future?) owner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396063#396063
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Need 30 year update |
Dan . . . -it's even worse than that. -=0A=0AThe fuel injection on toda
y's production aircraft engines is 1940s technology. -They atomize the mi
xture with an annulus around the injector to entrain air as the fuel stream
s by. -A similar set ca be found on old WWII fighter engines. -The 57 C
orvette used a similar system but used a real injector nozzle. -=0A=0AGet
ting a GPS installed can be months, or even years, worth of headaches. -E
lectronics for fuel control? -Are you serious. -What happens during a s
olar flare? -What happens when someone calls you on your iPhone. -Well,
nothing. -But, you'll spend the better part of a large fortune getting i
t approved. -=0A=0AGary=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From:
Dan Veeneman <dan@rotorshop.com>=0ATo: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com =0AS
ent: Monday, March 11, 2013 12:36 PM=0ASubject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Need
30 year update=0A =0A=0AOn 3/11/2013 3:16 PM, Gary L Vogt wrote:=0A=0AI'm w
orking on an IO360, 180 hp, for my Tiger.- =0A>=0AThis is something I hav
en't understood.- Fuel injection has been=0A standard in automobiles f
or decades now, eliminating the hassles=0A with a carb and improving eff
iciency.- Why isn't it more prevalent=0A in single-engine airplanes?
- Is it just because the general aviation=0A fleet is so old and doing
==================
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Need 30 year update |
I want to see direct injected gas engines.=0A=0A=0A=0A_____________________
___________=0A From: cannuck <pmdolan@sasktel.net>=0ATo: teamgrumman-list@m
atronics.com =0ASent: Monday, March 11, 2013 7:58 PM=0ASubject: TeamGrumman
-List: Re: Need 30 year update=0A =0A--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by
: "cannuck" <pmdolan@sasktel.net>=0A=0ANed:- thanks for the post.- What
exactly can be LEGALLY done with an 0-360 - or better yet IO-360 to optimi
ze as you mentioned from Lycon??=0A=0AI imagine Ken's 411 CID engine does n
ot exist in the world of STC of PMA parts??- MOT up here is very touchy a
bout these things.=0A=0ADan:- not only are the engines old, so is the tec
hnology of the approved hardware.- while the regulatory burden is a giant
PITA, watch the world of aero diesels for some much more current tech hitt
ing the skies.=0A=0A--------=0AAA1 and AA5B former (future?) owner=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtop
=- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle
========
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Need 30 year update |
I want to see Ned flying his tiger on 130 (comparable) octane compressed na
tural gas that he compresses at home for about 79 cents per gasoline gallon
equivalent, like in his truck.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____________________________
___=0A From: Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com>=0ATo: "teamgrumman-list@ma
tronics.com" <teamgrumman-list@matronics.com> =0ASent: Monday, March 11, 20
13 11:22 PM=0ASubject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Need 30 year update=0A =0A
=0AI want to see direct injected gas engines.=0A=0A=0A=0A__________________
______________=0A From: cannuck <pmdolan@sasktel.net>=0ATo: teamgrumman-lis
t@matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, March 11, 2013 7:58 PM=0ASubject: TeamGrum
man-List: Re: Need 30 year update=0A =0A--> TeamGrumman-List message posted
by: "cannuck" <pmdolan@sasktel.net>=0A=0ANed:- thanks for the post.- W
hat exactly can be LEGALLY done with an 0-360 - or better yet IO-360 to opt
imize as you mentioned from Lycon??=0A=0AI imagine Ken's 411 CID engine doe
s not exist in the world of STC of PMA parts??- MOT up here is very touch
y about these things.=0A=0ADan:- not only are the engines old, so is the
technology of the approved hardware.- while the regulatory burden is a gi
ant PITA, watch the world of aero diesels for some much more current tech h
itting the skies.=0A=0A--------=0AAA1 and AA5B former (future?) owner=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/view
=============
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Need 30 year update |
Hi Cannuck,
This is Ned
I haven't posted a response yet...just to clarify that was Gary...I think.
Doesn't Canada have a category that you can put a Tiger into that allows you Canadians
to treat it like our US experimentals? That's what I've been told anyway.
Heh?
If I were you that's what I'd do no question. I'd take an old Tiger put whatever
power plant I liked in it, say like a 22:1 compression diesel and put Skyview
or Advanced Aero glass EFIS in it add that carbon fiber 20 gallon equivalent
CNG tank in the back then watch the autopilot fly taking off and landing while
only burning around $20 for a couple hours flight.....
Ned
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396069#396069
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Need 30 year update |
Me too;)
On Mar 11, 2013, at 11:30 PM, Bob Hodo <bob.hodo@yahoo.com> wrote:
I want to see Ned flying his tiger on 130 (comparable) octane compressed nat
ural gas that he compresses at home for about 79 cents per gasoline gallon e
quivalent, like in his truck.
From: Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Need 30 year update
I want to see direct injected gas engines.
From: cannuck <pmdolan@sasktel.net>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 7:58 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Need 30 year update
Ned: thanks for the post. What exactly can be LEGALLY done with an 0-360 -
or better yet IO-360 to optimize as you mentioned from Lycon??
I imagine Ken's 411 CID engine does not exist in the world of STC of PMA par
ts?? MOT up here is very touchy about these things.
Dan: not only are the engines old, so is the technology of the approved har
dware. while the regulatory burden is a giant PITA, watch the world of aero
diesels for some much more current tech hitting the skies.
--------
AA1 and AA5B former (future?) owner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396063#396063
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