Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:36 AM - fuel tank sealant removal (Gary L Vogt)
2. 11:44 AM - Fuel tank stalagmites (Gary L Vogt)
3. 05:41 PM - Re: Need 30 year update (cannuck)
4. 08:37 PM - Re: Fuel tank stalagmites (Brock)
5. 08:40 PM - Re: Fuel tank stalagmites (Brock)
6. 08:50 PM - Re: Re: Need 30 year update (923TE)
7. 09:29 PM - Re: Need 30 year update (cannuck)
8. 11:39 PM - Re: Fuel tank stalagmites (Gary L Vogt)
Message 1
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| Subject: | fuel tank sealant removal |
One of my least favorite jobs is stripping the poly sulfide sealant from fuel tanks.
I'm working on one that was resealed by another Grumman shop two years ago.
Clearly, the person who applied the sealant was of the mindset that more is
better. And, it never occurred to him/her that the bonded joint is, for all
practical purposes, already sealed. No reason to have 1/4 inch of sealant on the
joint. No reason to have it slopped all over. Also, I got pictures of the sealant
stalagmites on the bottom of the tank. Would have made the start of a cool
aquarium.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Fuel tank stalagmites |
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Need 30 year update |
Try to stay out of piddling contests, but there are a few things worth mentioning:
Bosch did NOT "invent" the CIS (Constant Injection System = K Jetronic).
ALL Bosch automotive gasoline injection systems are based on BENDIX patents
- as was the Rochester system used on the early Plastic Pigs of C2 & C3 series.
These were Mass Airflow Sensing systems, with a mechanical linkage (balance
beam) controlling fuel delivery in response to displacement of the airflow measuring
device.
The earliest production electronic (not digital) system from Bosch (D Jetronic)
was an MPC (Manifold Pressure Controlled) system that did NOT flow constantly
(it was a "batch" system opening one bank at a time triggered by an extra pair
of points, and the computer modified the duration of the opening signal by a
few variables. Again, from Bendix but the 1968 VW was NOT the real pioneer -
Chrysler had a bunch of prototypes running in the 50s IIRC.
Even the crude GM single and twin throttle body injectors were NOT continuous flow,
but pulsed by the computer. (I am not a GM guy, so if anyone has information
to the contrary, feel free to jump in/on).
Our current antique aircraft systems work, but it would be an incredible stetch
to imply that they work "well". Even the fanciest of digital port injection
systems, while quite a bit better than our dribble cups, are now totally obsolete.
There is far too much difficulty getting AND MAINTAINING adequate atomisation
at the low pressures typical of these systems. By far the best technology
is direct gasoline injection (if one must stoop to using gasoline as a motor
fuel). Just watch the power and performance gains (or go back 5 years and check
out VWs with TFSI engines).
Before I forget: the first production gasoline injection systems WERE indeed constant
flow. They were Bosch in D-B cars in the mid 50s (started with 300SL
IIRC) using adaptations of diesel pumps at fairly high pressures (thus fantastic
atomisation by standards of the day).
Just for the record, Stu Hilborn was building aircraft-like automotive injection
systems long before any of the above were on the road.
--------
AA1 and AA5B former (future?) owner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396217#396217
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank stalagmites |
Those are stalactites. Stalagmites grow from the floor up. I was taught it w
as easiest to remember that stalactites have to hold on tight to the ceiling
. Had both in my fuel tank. Apparently I had a mechanic that thought more i
s better too, and one that couldn't tell the wing was delaminating. Got it a
ll fixed now.
Brock
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 13, 2013, at 1:43 PM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <IMG_3040.jpg>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank stalagmites |
Oh, you are right. Those are stalagmites. You took an upside down picture. S
orry about that.
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 13, 2013, at 1:43 PM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <IMG_3040.jpg>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Need 30 year update |
You might want to check your history a little more as you can easily find that
Bosch developed the fuel injection and mass produced it for automobiles during
the 1920's way before your fellow Canadian brought injection to the market in
the late 1940's
On Mar 13, 2013, at 7:41 PM, "cannuck" <pmdolan@sasktel.net> wrote:
Try to stay out of piddling contests, but there are a few things worth mentioning:
Bosch did NOT "invent" the CIS (Constant Injection System = K Jetronic).
ALL Bosch automotive gasoline injection systems are based on BENDIX patents
- as was the Rochester system used on the early Plastic Pigs of C2 & C3 series.
These were Mass Airflow Sensing systems, with a mechanical linkage (balance
beam) controlling fuel delivery in response to displacement of the airflow measuring
device.
The earliest production electronic (not digital) system from Bosch (D Jetronic)
was an MPC (Manifold Pressure Controlled) system that did NOT flow constantly
(it was a "batch" system opening one bank at a time triggered by an extra pair
of points, and the computer modified the duration of the opening signal by a
few variables. Again, from Bendix but the 1968 VW was NOT the real pioneer -
Chrysler had a bunch of prototypes running in the 50s IIRC.
Even the crude GM single and twin throttle body injectors were NOT continuous flow,
but pulsed by the computer. (I am not a GM guy, so if anyone has information
to the contrary, feel free to jump in/on).
Our current antique aircraft systems work, but it would be an incredible stetch
to imply that they work "well". Even the fanciest of digital port injection
systems, while quite a bit better than our dribble cups, are now totally obsolete.
There is far too much difficulty getting AND MAINTAINING adequate atomisation
at the low pressures typical of these systems. By far the best technology
is direct gasoline injection (if one must stoop to using gasoline as a motor
fuel). Just watch the power and performance gains (or go back 5 years and check
out VWs with TFSI engines).
Before I forget: the first production gasoline injection systems WERE indeed constant
flow. They were Bosch in D-B cars in the mid 50s (started with 300SL
IIRC) using adaptations of diesel pumps at fairly high pressures (thus fantastic
atomisation by standards of the day).
Just for the record, Stu Hilborn was building aircraft-like automotive injection
systems long before any of the above were on the road.
--------
AA1 and AA5B former (future?) owner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396217#396217
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Need 30 year update |
Ned:
I was referring to automotive systems. The only fuel injection that Bosch made
in the 20s was DIESEL, not gasoline. The first gasoline injection systems were
just before WWII (IIRC, in Jumo engines from Junkers). No cars until postwar
- and that was the 300SLR or I think maybe one of the formula racers before
PRODUCTION stuff in the 300SL (which because they were adapted from diesel stuff
were direct injection - beating everone else to the market by a half century).
I have worked on a lot of pre-war D-B cars, and have never seen anything but carburetors.
Pat
--------
AA1 and AA5B former (future?) owner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396224#396224
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank stalagmites |
These are growing from the floor up. The wing must have been bottoms up when
sealant was slopped in place. Then they let it drip down (up)
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 13, 2013, at 8:36 PM, Brock <n2_narcosis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Those are stalactites. Stalagmites grow from the floor up. I was taught i
t was easiest to remember that stalactites have to hold on tight to the ceil
ing. Had both in my fuel tank. Apparently I had a mechanic that thought mor
e is better too, and one that couldn't tell the wing was delaminating. Got i
t all fixed now.
>
> Brock
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Mar 13, 2013, at 1:43 PM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> <IMG_3040.jpg>
>
>
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>
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