---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/08/14: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 10:11 AM - Stray current (Gary L Vogt) 2. 10:26 AM - Re: Stray current (CYNAMONB@AOL.COM) 3. 10:33 AM - Re: Stray current (Hosler, John) 4. 10:35 AM - Re: Stray current (Linn Walters) 5. 10:42 AM - Re: Stray current (Hosler, John) 6. 11:33 AM - Re: Stray current (Linn Walters) 7. 12:10 PM - Re: Stray current (Gary L Vogt) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 10:11:00 AM PST US From: Gary L Vogt Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Stray current I have a Tiger in my shop that has a battery run down after a couple of wee ks. -The previous owner (more than 6 years ago) put a switch on the panel to shut off the clock because, apparently, the battery kept going dead. -=0A=0AI removed the negative cable and put a voltmeter/ammeter between t he battery and the ground wire. -With both fuses on the battery removed, there was no current. -With the clock fuse installed, clock on, 7.54 mAmp s. -With the clock off and the Hobbs(Note: no Hobbs meter)/Cabin light fu se installed, lights off, 5.33 mAmps. -Lights on, 8.23 mAmps. -This was repeatable using several different approaches. -=0A=0AThat is, until I t urned the cabin lights on and off one time and the current went to zero. -Is it possible the cabin lights could be drawing current with the lights off? -=0A=0AGary ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:26:07 AM PST US From: CYNAMONB@AOL.COM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Stray current Bad cabin light switch that functioned normally after being cycled, maybe due to internal corrosion? The switch may have been passing some current but not enough to be noticeable at the bulb. Bruce Cynamon bruce@petersonindustries.com In a message dated 4/8/2014 1:11:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, teamgrumman@yahoo.com writes: I have a Tiger in my shop that has a battery run down after a couple of weeks. The previous owner (more than 6 years ago) put a switch on the panel to shut off the clock because, apparently, the battery kept going dead. I removed the negative cable and put a voltmeter/ammeter between the battery and the ground wire. With both fuses on the battery removed, there was no current. With the clock fuse installed, clock on, 7.54 mAmps. With the clock off and the Hobbs(Note: no Hobbs meter)/Cabin light fuse installed, lights off, 5.33 mAmps. Lights on, 8.23 mAmps. This was repeatable using several different approaches. That is, until I turned the cabin lights on and off one time and the current went to zero. Is it possible the cabin lights could be drawing current with the lights off? Gary ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:33:10 AM PST US From: "Hosler, John" Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Stray current What is normal current drain from clock?? My plane can go for months wit hout draining battery. From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumm an-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CYNAMONB@AOL.COM Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2014 1:26 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Stray current Bad cabin light switch that functioned normally after being cycled, mayb e due to internal corrosion? The switch may have been passing some curren t but not enough to be noticeable at the bulb. Bruce Cynamon bruce@petersonindustries.com In a message dated 4/8/2014 1:11:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, teamgrumm an@yahoo.com writes: I have a Tiger in my shop that has a battery run down after a couple of w eeks. The previous owner (more than 6 years ago) put a switch on the pan el to shut off the clock because, apparently, the battery kept going dead =2E I removed the negative cable and put a voltmeter/ammeter between the batt ery and the ground wire. With both fuses on the battery removed, there w as no current. With the clock fuse installed, clock on, 7.54 mAmps. Wit h the clock off and the Hobbs(Note: no Hobbs meter)/Cabin light fuse inst alled, lights off, 5.33 mAmps. Lights on, 8.23 mAmps. This was repeatab le using several different approaches. That is, until I turned the cabin lights on and off one time and the curr ent went to zero. Is it possible the cabin lights could be drawing curre nt with the lights off? Gary st href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://ww w.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:35:38 AM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Stray current On 4/8/2014 1:10 PM, Gary L Vogt wrote: > I have a Tiger in my shop that has a battery run down after a couple > of weeks. The previous owner (more than 6 years ago) put a switch on > the panel to shut off the clock because, apparently, the battery kept > going dead. The clock is an impulse type and only draws current for a 1/4 second or so as it winds itself. Providing the points aren't sticking .... apparent if the clock has to be reset each flight. Vibration will make the clock work properly. As the battery runs down the points are more likely to stick. A quick wipe across the points with emery cloth will usually 'fix' the clock > I removed the negative cable and put a voltmeter/ammeter between the > battery and the ground wire. With both fuses on the battery removed, > there was no current. With the clock fuse installed, clock on, 7.54 > mAmps. With the clock off and the Hobbs(Note: no Hobbs meter)/Cabin > light fuse installed, lights off, 5.33 mAmps. Lights on, 8.23 mAmps. > This was repeatable using several different approaches. Not being familiar with the tiger but thinking the only accessory 'direct connected' to the battery is the clock and ..... maybe the cigarette lighter. No telling what else has been installed direct connected after all these years. > That is, until I turned the cabin lights on and off one time and the > current went to zero. Is it possible the cabin lights could be > drawing current with the lights off? I'd say possible .... but not probable. If you get the airframe back in tghe current drain mode ..... check the cabin lights in a dark hangar. I think the more probable explanation is that in messing around, climbing in/out etc .... something 'moved' ..... and will move back again at a later date. I suspect a wire has chafed through somewhere ...... I'm curious what you find ..... Linn > > Gary > * > > > * > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:42:35 AM PST US From: "Hosler, John" Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Stray current Where are the "points" located? From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumm an-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2014 1:35 PM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Stray current On 4/8/2014 1:10 PM, Gary L Vogt wrote: I have a Tiger in my shop that has a battery run down after a couple of w eeks. The previous owner (more than 6 years ago) put a switch on the pan el to shut off the clock because, apparently, the battery kept going dead =2E The clock is an impulse type and only draws current for a 1/4 second or s o as it winds itself. Providing the points aren't sticking .... apparent if the clock has to be reset each flight. Vibration will make the clock work properly. As the battery runs down the points are more likely to s tick. A quick wipe across the points with emery cloth will usually 'fix' the clock I removed the negative cable and put a voltmeter/ammeter between the batt ery and the ground wire. With both fuses on the battery removed, there w as no current. With the clock fuse installed, clock on, 7.54 mAmps. Wit h the clock off and the Hobbs(Note: no Hobbs meter)/Cabin light fuse inst alled, lights off, 5.33 mAmps. Lights on, 8.23 mAmps. This was repeatab le using several different approaches. Not being familiar with the tiger but thinking the only accessory 'direct connected' to the battery is the clock and ..... maybe the cigarette lig hter. No telling what else has been installed direct connected after all these years. That is, until I turned the cabin lights on and off one time and the cu rrent went to zero. Is it possible the cabin lights could be drawing cur rent with the lights off? I'd say possible .... but not probable. If you get the airframe back in tghe current drain mode ..... check the cabin lights in a dark hangar. I think the more probable explanation is that in messing around, climbing in/out etc .... something 'moved' ..... and will move back again at a lat er date. I suspect a wire has chafed through somewhere ...... I'm curious what you find ..... Linn Gary No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 04/08/14 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:33:41 AM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Stray current On 4/8/2014 1:41 PM, Hosler, John wrote: > > Where are the "points" located? > Inside the clock, attached to the winding arm/clock spring. The clock winds down until the points close and current flows through an electromagnet (the coil) which attracts the winding arm with the clock spring attached. A ratchet/pawl catches and the clock runs ..... It's real obvious when you get the back cover off the clock. The magnetic impulse function isn't unlike the operation of the electric fuel pump, which also suffers from dirty points. Linn > *From:*owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *Linn Walters > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 08, 2014 1:35 PM > *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Stray current > > On 4/8/2014 1:10 PM, Gary L Vogt wrote: > > I have a Tiger in my shop that has a battery run down after a > couple of weeks. The previous owner (more than 6 years ago) put a > switch on the panel to shut off the clock because, apparently, the > battery kept going dead. > > The clock is an impulse type and only draws current for a 1/4 second > or so as it winds itself. Providing the points aren't sticking .... > apparent if the clock has to be reset each flight. Vibration will > make the clock work properly. As the battery runs down the points are > more likely to stick. A quick wipe across the points with emery cloth > will usually 'fix' the clock > > I removed the negative cable and put a voltmeter/ammeter between the > battery and the ground wire. With both fuses on the battery removed, > there was no current. With the clock fuse installed, clock on, 7.54 > mAmps. With the clock off and the Hobbs(Note: no Hobbs meter)/Cabin > light fuse installed, lights off, 5.33 mAmps. Lights on, 8.23 mAmps. > This was repeatable using several different approaches. > > Not being familiar with the tiger but thinking the only accessory > 'direct connected' to the battery is the clock and ..... maybe the > cigarette lighter. No telling what else has been installed direct > connected after all these years. > > That is, until I turned the cabin lights on and off one time and the > current went to zero. Is it possible the cabin lights could be > drawing current with the lights off? > > I'd say possible .... but not probable. If you get the airframe back > in tghe current drain mode ..... check the cabin lights in a dark > hangar. I think the more probable explanation is that in messing > around, climbing in/out etc .... something 'moved' ..... and will move > back again at a later date. I suspect a wire has chafed through > somewhere ...... > > I'm curious what you find ..... > Linn > > Gary > > * * > * * > * * > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > 04/08/14 > > * * > * * > ==============TeamGrumman-List Email Forum -:p> /o:p> > > gator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List============== > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -/o:p> > http://forums.matronics.com============== - List Contribution Web > Site -pre> -Matt Dralle, List > Admin.ribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution============= > * * > * > > > * > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:10:45 PM PST US From: Gary L Vogt Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Stray current I've also seen a plane go for months without draining the battery. -The c lock is minimal at best. -Like I said, this is an odd one. -I'm going t o look at the switches. -I wish there were an easy way to monitor the sma ll current drain. -At least I know which wire is involved. -I may move the cabin lights to the main buss. -I never did like the fuses out on the battery box.=0A=0AGary=0AOn Tuesday, April 8, 2014 10:40 AM, "Hosler, John " wrote:=0A =0AWhat is normal current drain from clock?? - My plane can go for months without draining battery.=0A-=0AFrom:owner -teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-serve r@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CYNAMONB@AOL.COM=0ASent: Tuesday, April 08, 2 014 1:26 PM=0ATo: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: TeamGrumman -List: Stray current=0A-=0A-Bad cabin light switch that functioned norm ally after being cycled, maybe due to internal corrosion? The switch may ha ve been passing some current but not enough to be noticeable at the bulb. =0A-=0A-=0A-=0ABruce Cynamon=0Abruce@petersonindustries.com=0A-=0AI n a message dated 4/8/2014 1:11:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, teamgrumman@ yahoo.com writes:=0AI have a Tiger in my shop that has a battery run down a fter a couple of weeks. -The previous owner (more than 6 years ago) put a switch on the panel to shut off the clock because, apparently, the battery kept going dead. -=0A>-=0A>I removed the negative cable and put a volt meter/ammeter between the battery and the ground wire. -With both fuses o n the battery removed, there was no current. -With the clock fuse install ed, clock on, 7.54 mAmps. -With the clock off and the Hobbs(Note: no Hobb s meter)/Cabin light fuse installed, lights off, 5.33 mAmps. -Lights on, 8.23 mAmps. -This was repeatable using several different approaches. - =0A>-=0A>That is, until I turned the cabin lights on and off one time and the current went to zero. -Is it possible the cabin lights could be draw ing current with the lights off? -=0A>-=0A>Gary=0A>-=0A>-=0A>st hre f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matron ics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List=0A>s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matro nics.com=0A>p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co ntribution=0A>-=0A-=0A-=0A============== TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - =0A:p>=0A/o:p>=0A>=0Agator?TeamGrumman-List ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List =0A====== ======== =0A---- - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - =0A/o:p> =0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com =0A============= = =0A-- - List Contribution Web Site - =0Apre>=0A------ - -------------Matt Dralle, List Admin. =0Aributi on">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A========== =========================0A ======================= ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message teamgrumman-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.