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1. 12:22 PM - Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 08/22/15 (Samuel Sampson)
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| Subject: | Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 08/22/15 |
Well said, Gary. Customers are, indeed, an interesting lot!
Bert
On Aug 22, 2015, at 9:03 PM, TeamGrumman-List Digest Server wrote:
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> TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive
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> Total Messages Posted Sat 08/22/15: 3
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> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 10:51 AM - 1979 Tiger for sale. An update (Gary L Vogt)
> 2. 10:55 AM - 1979 Tiger for sale (Gary L Vogt)
> 3. 02:21 PM - Customers are an interesting lot (Gary L Vogt)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:51:42 AM PST US
> From: Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com>
> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: 1979 Tiger for sale. An update
>
> There has been an overwhelming interest in this plane. 6 phone calls
> and 3 emails. Questions were asked regarding a couple of things not in
> the original post. They are marked with a *. Here it is again with
> the update. The current owner sent me a lot of pics. Send me an email
> and I=99ll send then to you.
> --------------------------------------------------
> One of my very good customers has decided it=99s time to sell. I
> have been maintaining and upgrading this plane for 12 or 13 years
> through two different owners. With paint and interior, this would be a
> show plane. It has a lot of extras that you=99d have to pay for
> if you bought a cheaper plane.
>
>
> Here are the particulars.
>
> 1979 Gulfstream-American Tiger, SN 1188 (one of the last ones built.)
> Purchased by the current owner in 2007 for $72,000.
> He=99s asking $75,000. It=99s worth every cent.
>
> TTAF: 2670
> TTEngine: 2670
> TSMOH: 915
> TTProp: 2273
> * Prop: Sensenich
> TSPOH: 915
> Vacuum Pump: 318
> Elec Fuel Pump: 294
> Carb: 851
> Rudder Springs: 500
>
> Equipment: Avionics
> Garmin GMA 340
> Garmin GNS 430W
> Garmin GTX 327
> Garmin 496 slaved to the GNS 430W
> Apollo GX 60
> JPI EDM 700 with fuel flow
> * Century I autopilot
>
> Airframe:
> Jaguar Cowling.
> new fiberglass dorsal fin
> new fiberglass wheel pants
> * New tail cone
> Whelen combination tail strobe/Nav light
> Flush rudder cap
> * Damage History: In 2002 or 2003 the previous owner, Eddie, hit a
> flock of starlings near Livermore. Post flight inspection revealed 13
> hits. Most of the hits were to the nose bowl, prop, and windshield.
> There were a couple of hits on the wings. I have been all over the
> wings, inside and out, with mirrors and flashlights and I can see no
> evidence of any repair. Whoever did the repair was a real craftsman.
>
>
> Engine: Other
> new Macfarlane throttle cable.
>
> Interior:
> Fiberglass eyebrow
> * luminescent lighting
>
> Included:
> Bose A20 headset
> Bose X noise canceling headsets (2)
> SkyOx portable O2 w/2 canulas and a facemask.
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:55:37 AM PST US
> From: Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com>
> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: 1979 Tiger for sale
>
>
> Actually, if you are on Facebook, like the AuCountry Aviation Facebook page and
> you can see all of the pics.
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 02:21:20 PM PST US
> From: Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman@yahoo.com>
> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Customers are an interesting lot
>
>
> Or maybe I should say, people are an interesting lot.
>
> Ive been working on other peoples planes for 30 years. All total, Ive worked
on
> over 300 different planes; including a Cessna 210, a Cessna 182, a Cessna 177,
> a Cessna 175, a Cessna 172, 2 Mooney M20s, a Mooney 231, 2 Piper Comanches,
> a Beech Musketeer, 3 different Beech Bonanzas, 2 Citabrias, a Piper Pacer and
> a whole lot of Grummans. Ive had customers fly from as far away as Missouri
> to get their plane worked on. We currently have about 40 customers from San
Diego
> to Seattle and as far east as Utah; about a tank of gas each way.
>
> Ive learned a lot about people in 30 years.
>
> Ive had customers who were poor day laborers scraping by just to fly, a retired
> F-105 fighter who told great stories of sorties over Vietnam, a couple of F-16
> fighter pilots, a Lt General in the California Air National Guard, several computer
> engineers, several self employed house builders & property managers, a
> couple of airport managers, owners of petroleum distributers, an Under Sheriff
> for LA County, two architects, several Civil, Mechanical, Electrical, and Aerospace
> engineers, several University Professors, a couple of High School teachers,
> a retired surveyor for the State of California, a couple of California Fire
> Fighters, a developer from Canada, several airline pilots, a couple of lawyers,
> and many more than I can recall.
>
> I had no idea how to charge for annuals when I started. The avionics guy in
Lancaster
> charged $50/hr so thats what I charged. That avionics guy and I are still
> good friends. He charges $110/hr now and has more work than he knows what
> to do with.
>
> I started doing owner assisted annuals almost right from the beginning. It took
> a while to figure out how to charge for owner assist. One customer, about 1992,
> suggested I just charge for the time I am working on the plane and forget
> the flat rate charge. I told him it would cost him more. He said it was worth
> it. So, that is how I do it now.
>
> While in Lancaster, I would set up my futon couch for out-of-town customers doing
> an owner assisted annual. I could help them and it kept the cost of the annuals
> down. I continued that service after I moved to Auburn. Oddly, Ive had
> a couple of customers whod rather stay in a motel than sleep n a futon couch;
> go figure. Now that I have a house with a spare room, we, my wife Clytie and
> I, have hosted MANY customers. They are treated to home-cooked Philipino food
> for dinner each night and home-cooked American breakfasts; the longest stay
> was just over a week. We have a couple of customers who insist on treating us
> to meals out.
>
> Weve had customers buy us tools, wine, Scotch, plane tickets, pay $100/hr driving
> time to their airports to work on their planes, pay a $1000 finders fee for
> an airplane they bought when the seller was too cheap to pay the $5000 promised
> they'd pay me to sell his plane and then changed their minds after the deal
> (this has happened twice), customers who give my wife and I free trips, customers
> who offer us room and board when we visit their neck-of-the-woods and Ive
> had customers loan me money (as much as $10,000) to get me through some very
> dry spells. In 2006, I had one customer (the Lt General) who threatened to stop
> bringing his plane to me because I didnt charge for all the work I did; he
> insisted on paying for every nut, screw, terminal end and every minute I worked
> on his plane. Sometime around 1999, I flew to Prescott, Arizona to help a
> customer who had a plane that wouldnt start and needed a starter; I did it for
> free. Sometime around 2003, I had a customer with a broken rudder spring in
> North Las Vegas. I flew over there and changed the springs in 115 degree temps
> for the cost of fuel. These were customers who always went out of their way
> to help me; it was the least I could do.
>
> And, on the flip side, Ive had good customers who would load up their planes
with
> free water and goodies from my refrigerator just because. Ive had customers
> who pay their bills on monthly installments and ask for discounts even after
> Ive already discounted the invoice. Ive had customers who complain the bill
> is too high or that is shouldnt take 20-40 hours to strip the fuel tank sealant
> out of a wing and reseal it or that I overcharge for parts [note: I generally
> sell at retail cost for everything]. The really expensive stuff I sell at or
> near my cost and make money on the installation and yet, some customers still
> complain.
>
> Most, if not all, of our customers have became long term friends. In 30 years,
> Ive only refused to work on 4 planes. Not because of the planes (except for
> 2-seaters. Ive refused many 2-seaters. I work on one 2-seater BECAUSE of the
owner.
> Hes a terrific guy.), but because of the owners. Quite frankly, Im too
> busy to deal with customers who lack integrity, who second guess everything I
> do, who question my ethics or the way I charge, or those owners I just dont like.
>
>
> To all [well, most all] of my customers, past and present, you make my life worth
> while. Thanks.
>
> Gary
>
>
>
>
>
>
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