---------------------------------------------------------- Ultralight-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 05/12/06: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:31 AM - Flying without a Sport Pilot License? (Rob Stapleton) 2. 04:09 AM - Re: Flying without a Sport Pilot License? () 3. 05:06 AM - Re: Flying without a Sport Pilot License? (George T. Alexander, Jr.) 4. 05:25 AM - Fines (Mark Blackwell) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:31:15 AM PST US From: "Rob Stapleton" Subject: Ultralight-List: Flying without a Sport Pilot License? --> Ultralight-List message posted by: "Rob Stapleton" Does anyone know what the penalty is for flying an N numbered Experimental Motor Glider without a license, or flying an ELSA before you have a Sport Pilot license? A friend of mine just crashed an N numbered Ex motor glider and we can't find what the fines will be..! Any help will be really appreciated by an ultralight pilot who flew and crashed an N numbered ultralight! RS They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:09:16 AM PST US Subject: RE: Ultralight-List: Flying without a Sport Pilot License? From: --> Ultralight-List message posted by: Wait till they hand you the fine and then you'll know. -----Original Message----- From: owner-ultralight-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-ultralight-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Stapleton Sent: May 12, 2006 3:29 AM Subject: Ultralight-List: Flying without a Sport Pilot License? --> Ultralight-List message posted by: "Rob Stapleton" Does anyone know what the penalty is for flying an N numbered Experimental Motor Glider without a license, or flying an ELSA before you have a Sport Pilot license? A friend of mine just crashed an N numbered Ex motor glider and we can't find what the fines will be..! Any help will be really appreciated by an ultralight pilot who flew and crashed an N numbered ultralight! RS They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:55 AM PST US From: "George T. Alexander, Jr." Subject: RE: Ultralight-List: Flying without a Sport Pilot License? --> Ultralight-List message posted by: "George T. Alexander, Jr." Second hand story.... heard it a several times from different sources and they were consistent.... A case in NY where a guy got nailed on a ramp check flying a "fat UL". Once determined that he was not a legal UL by virtue of one item.... any item that made his a/c illegal as an ultralight, they got him on every thing where he was not legal/current. Total of 7 infractions covering both him and the a/c. At the time, the fines were $1000 per infractions. Believe it is higher than that now. Not sure exactly what the 7 were but I believe they included: unregistered a/c; no airworthiness certificate; no current annual; non-certified operator; no medical; no BFR and ???? (can't remember the 7th- someone probably does because I think the "7" were supposedly standard in cases involving fat ULs. Probably no endorsement/sign-off in type). In your case, if the plane was legal (registered, air worthiness, current annual) then he might have to deal only with the others. If the plane had been converted/registered as a LSA or ELSA, and he has a drivers license (and never had/lost a 3rd class medical), maybe no medical infraction. If the plane has not been converted to Sport, medical issue might apply. Worst case... all 7. Better case... something less than 7. Best case they either let him go or he goes and talks his way out of some of the infractions and/or fines. Good luck! George DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-ultralight-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-ultralight-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rob Stapleton Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 3:29 AM Subject: Ultralight-List: Flying without a Sport Pilot License? --> Ultralight-List message posted by: "Rob Stapleton" Does anyone know what the penalty is for flying an N numbered Experimental Motor Glider without a license, or flying an ELSA before you have a Sport Pilot license? A friend of mine just crashed an N numbered Ex motor glider and we can't find what the fines will be..! Any help will be really appreciated by an ultralight pilot who flew and crashed an N numbered ultralight! RS They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:39 AM PST US From: "Mark Blackwell" Subject: Ultralight-List: Fines --> Ultralight-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell" Rob your friend is in an area where so much of it is up to the inspector. The first place he needs to call is the AOPA. If he isn't a member he needs to join. The next thing he needs is an aviation attorney. I do it will expensive enough that it will easily justfiy having an attorney at least provide advise, if not represent you directly with the FAA. I don't know amounts, but I personally would be surprised if its less than $10,000 and getting a ticket now for at least a year is not going to be likely either. He also becomes responsible for anything else they might happen to find wrong with the airplane, paperwork or otherwise and of course the ever present careless and reckless which will also likely be added. Hope things work out ok. --> Ultralight-List message posted by: "Rob Stapleton" Does anyone know what the penalty is for flying an N numbered Experimental Motor Glider without a license, or flying an ELSA before you have a Sport Pilot license? A friend of mine just crashed an N numbered Ex motor glider and we can't find what the fines will be..! Any help will be really appreciated by an ultralight pilot who flew and crashed an N numbered ultralight! RS They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin