Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:45 AM - Re: Any amplifier recommendations? (Bobby)
2. 08:13 AM - Center Channels and Rear Fill. (NOTGSXR@aol.com)
3. 10:37 AM - Re: Any amplifier recommendations? (Dremgragen .)
4. 10:56 AM - Re: Any amplifier recommendations? (Jose Reyes)
5. 12:05 PM - Re: Center Channels and Rear Fill. (Randy Visentine)
6. 09:06 PM - Re: Center Channels and Rear Fill. (NOTGSXR@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Any amplifier recommendations? |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Bobby" <mrblackc@msn.com>
I definately have enough room for multipul amp's. I know that the Alpine
amp that I'm running does have a built in parametric crossover, but I bypass
that altogether, so I doubt that is affecting any sound coming from it. As
for wiring in the car, it seems very stable, wtih 2 ga cable as a power lead
to a 5 farad power cap. My sub amp is running stereo, as is, since it will
not accept any lower impedance. I've experimented with parallel and series
wiring, and all in all, the stereo!! option gives me the cleanest sound,
even though it's at the lowest power rating. I'm just looking for something
out of the ordinarly for clarity and purity. Honestly, I feel the phoenix
gold M100 would serve me best in my subwoofer application, along with using
my current sub amp as a rear mid bass fill, keeping my Phoenix Gold M50 for
fronts, possibly adding a second amp dedicated to the front in time. That's
my current plan, what do you think?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Chambers" <bod@bod.org>
Subject: RE: XDP4000X-List: Any amplifier recommendations?
> --> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Paul Chambers" <bod@bod.org>
>
> Hi Bobby,
>
> You should probably give us an idea of your budget... ;)
>
> So far, my installs have been somewhat constrained on space, so
> requiring multichannel amps. What about you? Sounds like you have room
> for enough stereo amps for everything?
>
> Something perhaps worth mentioning is that the analog crossovers built
> into many amps can get in the way if you have a 4000x. An analog filter
> plays havoc with the phase of a signal as it approaches the cutoff
> frequency. As do crossovers, another form of analog filter (and more
> primitive than the active crossover in a good amp). To get the best
> benefits from having a 4000x in your system, I'd recommend choosing amps
> that don't have built-in crossover filters, or filters that are truely
> defeatable. It should help imaging and soundstage. And if you still have
> crossovers in circuit, now's the time to pull them out...
>
> As far as the subs go, it's not just raw power, but also control of the
> load, that marks an amp as good for subwoofer use. There's a lot of mass
> to get moving in a 12" sub, and a fair amount of energy is required to
> accellerate and decellerate it. Plus there's a phenomenon called 'back
> EMF' - energy that's 'returned' to the amplifier from wound coils when
> their magnetic field colapses (at least that's my simplistic
> understanding). I don't know whether it's 'conventional wisdom', but I'd
> recommend that you dedicate an amp channel to each sub, and look for
> amps that are designed with subwoofers in mind. Keeping the load an
> amplifier has to deal with as simple as possible (i.e. one coil) should
> help it in its task of moving the sub's cone to accurately follow the
> incoming signal. Also pay particular attention to supplying the
> subwoofer amps with healthy doses of current - stout power wiring and a
> large cap close to the amp's power terminals could easily make more
> difference than one brand vs. another, in my opinion. It matters more
> for subs than for the other stuff put together.
>
> Just one guy's opinion, for what it's worth :)
>
> Paul
>
> p.s. please forgive me if I'm stating the obvious...
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-xdp4000x-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-xdp4000x-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bobby
> > Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 8:36 PM
> > To: xdp4000x-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: XDP4000X-List: Any amplifier recommendations?
> >
> >
> > --> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Bobby" <mrblackc@msn.com>
> >
> > I've come a step closer to building my dream system by
> > getting my hands on a 4000x a few months back. Now
> > towards the next step in my quest, I find myself with
> > alot of different options and directions that I can
> > take, and I was wondering if anyone has any opinions
> > to offer. I am seeking just pure, clean sound, not
> > just spl. I want the most accurate reproduction of the
> > music as possible. I've caught myself in interest in
> > later model Phoenix Gold M Series amplifiers, due to
> > the many hookup options, but I was wondering if anyone
> > out there has any amplifier recommendations. Currently
> > I'm running a Phoenix Gold M50 for my front component
> > set, and old Pioneer 100X2 amp for my rear mid bass,
> > and an Alpine MRV-1505 for subs. I love the sound
> > from the M50, but the other two amps seem to be lacking
> > both in power and quality.
>
> > Obviously, the pioneer amp will have to go, but I was
> > unhappily surprised at the final image the Alpine amp
> > reproduced. It just doesn't seem to have what I'm
> > looking for. I'm running 2 12" sealed subs, so maybe
> > it just doesn't have enough power, I'm not sure. Well,
> > any opinions would be welcome. Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Bobby
> >
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Center Channels and Rear Fill. |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: NOTGSXR@aol.com
Hey guys. I'm just wondering how many of you use Center Channels and also
Rear Fill.
Also, as far as a center channel goes, i know we can get the proper signal by
using a Y adapter for both the left and right output and then use those
signals for a pair of channels on an amp in "bridged" mode effectively
combining the signal, but what about rear fill??? How could we get that
signal?? Is it possible to use the rear Analog RCA outputs from the headunit
directly to the amp and use the Front RCA's to the 4000X for the Tuner
Signal???
Also...... awhile back, i asked if anyone had a list somewhere of all
frequencies available for all of the outputs on the 4000X.... anyone??? :)
Thanks in advance,
Dan
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Any amplifier recommendations? |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Dremgragen ." <dremgragen@hotmail.com>
If it were me, I'd go with:
Zapco
Audison
US Amps
or Brax / Helix
in that order. :)
-Brody
From: "Bobby" <MRBLACKC@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: XDP4000X-List: Any amplifier recommendations?
-- XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Bobby" <MRBLACKC@MSN.COM>
I definately have enough room for multipul amp's. I know that the Alpine
amp that I'm running does have a built in parametric crossover, but I bypass
that altogether, so I doubt that is affecting any sound coming from it. As
for wiring in the car, it seems very stable, wtih 2 ga cable as a power lead
to a 5 farad power cap. My sub amp is running stereo, as is, since it will
not accept any lower impedance. I've experimented with parallel and series
wiring, and all in all, the stereo!! option gives me the cleanest sound,
even though it's at the lowest power rating. I'm just looking for something
out of the ordinarly for clarity and purity. Honestly, I feel the phoenix
gold M100 would serve me best in my subwoofer application, along with using
my current sub amp as a rear mid bass fill, keeping my Phoenix Gold M50 for
fronts, possibly adding a second amp dedicated to the front in time. That's
my current plan, what do you think?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Chambers" <BOD@BOD.ORG>
Subject: RE: XDP4000X-List: Any amplifier recommendations?
-- XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Paul Chambers" <BOD@BOD.ORG>
Hi Bobby,
You should probably give us an idea of your budget... ;)
So far, my installs have been somewhat constrained on space, so
requiring multichannel amps. What about you? Sounds like you have room
for enough stereo amps for everything?
Something perhaps worth mentioning is that the analog crossovers built
into many amps can get in the way if you have a 4000x. An analog filter
plays havoc with the phase of a signal as it approaches the cutoff
frequency. As do crossovers, another form of analog filter (and more
primitive than the active crossover in a good amp). To get the best
benefits from having a 4000x in your system, I'd recommend choosing amps
that don't have built-in crossover filters, or filters that are truely
defeatable. It should help imaging and soundstage. And if you still have
crossovers in circuit, now's the time to pull them out...
As far as the subs go, it's not just raw power, but also control of the
load, that marks an amp as good for subwoofer use. There's a lot of mass
to get moving in a 12" sub, and a fair amount of energy is required to
accellerate and decellerate it. Plus there's a phenomenon called 'back
EMF' - energy that's 'returned' to the amplifier from wound coils when
their magnetic field colapses (at least that's my simplistic
understanding). I don't know whether it's 'conventional wisdom', but I'd
recommend that you dedicate an amp channel to each sub, and look for
amps that are designed with subwoofers in mind. Keeping the load an
amplifier has to deal with as simple as possible (i.e. one coil) should
help it in its task of moving the sub's cone to accurately follow the
incoming signal. Also pay particular attention to supplying the
subwoofer amps with healthy doses of current - stout power wiring and a
large cap close to the amp's power terminals could easily make more
difference than one brand vs. another, in my opinion. It matters more
for subs than for the other stuff put together.
Just one guy's opinion, for what it's worth :)
Paul
p.s. please forgive me if I'm stating the obvious...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xdp4000x-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-xdp4000x-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bobby
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 8:36 PM
To: xdp4000x-list@matronics.com
Subject: XDP4000X-List: Any amplifier recommendations?
-- XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Bobby" <MRBLACKC@MSN.COM>
I've come a step closer to building my dream system by
getting my hands on a 4000x a few months back. Now
towards the next step in my quest, I find myself with
alot of different options and directions that I can
take, and I was wondering if anyone has any opinions
to offer. I am seeking just pure, clean sound, not
just spl. I want the most accurate reproduction of the
music as possible. I've caught myself in interest in
later model Phoenix Gold M Series amplifiers, due to
the many hookup options, but I was wondering if anyone
out there has any amplifier recommendations. Currently
I'm running a Phoenix Gold M50 for my front component
set, and old Pioneer 100X2 amp for my rear mid bass,
and an Alpine MRV-1505 for subs. I love the sound
from the M50, but the other two amps seem to be lacking
both in power and quality.
Obviously, the pioneer amp will have to go, but I was
unhappily surprised at the final image the Alpine amp
reproduced. It just doesn't seem to have what I'm
looking for. I'm running 2 12" sealed subs, so maybe
it just doesn't have enough power, I'm not sure. Well,
any opinions would be welcome. Thanks in advance.
Bobby
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMMEN/2016">3
months FREE*.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Any amplifier recommendations? |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: Jose Reyes <jreyes@CrescentHeights.com>
I'm pretty happy with my JL Audio Amps.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dremgragen . [mailto:dremgragen@hotmail.com]
Subject: Re: XDP4000X-List: Any amplifier recommendations?
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Dremgragen ." <dremgragen@hotmail.com>
If it were me, I'd go with:
Zapco
Audison
US Amps
or Brax / Helix
in that order. :)
-Brody
From: "Bobby" <MRBLACKC@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: XDP4000X-List: Any amplifier recommendations?
-- XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Bobby" <MRBLACKC@MSN.COM>
I definately have enough room for multipul amp's. I know that the Alpine
amp that I'm running does have a built in parametric crossover, but I bypass
that altogether, so I doubt that is affecting any sound coming from it. As
for wiring in the car, it seems very stable, wtih 2 ga cable as a power lead
to a 5 farad power cap. My sub amp is running stereo, as is, since it will
not accept any lower impedance. I've experimented with parallel and series
wiring, and all in all, the stereo!! option gives me the cleanest sound,
even though it's at the lowest power rating. I'm just looking for something
out of the ordinarly for clarity and purity. Honestly, I feel the phoenix
gold M100 would serve me best in my subwoofer application, along with using
my current sub amp as a rear mid bass fill, keeping my Phoenix Gold M50 for
fronts, possibly adding a second amp dedicated to the front in time. That's
my current plan, what do you think?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Chambers" <BOD@BOD.ORG>
Subject: RE: XDP4000X-List: Any amplifier recommendations?
-- XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Paul Chambers" <BOD@BOD.ORG>
Hi Bobby,
You should probably give us an idea of your budget... ;)
So far, my installs have been somewhat constrained on space, so
requiring multichannel amps. What about you? Sounds like you have room
for enough stereo amps for everything?
Something perhaps worth mentioning is that the analog crossovers built
into many amps can get in the way if you have a 4000x. An analog filter
plays havoc with the phase of a signal as it approaches the cutoff
frequency. As do crossovers, another form of analog filter (and more
primitive than the active crossover in a good amp). To get the best
benefits from having a 4000x in your system, I'd recommend choosing amps
that don't have built-in crossover filters, or filters that are truely
defeatable. It should help imaging and soundstage. And if you still have
crossovers in circuit, now's the time to pull them out...
As far as the subs go, it's not just raw power, but also control of the
load, that marks an amp as good for subwoofer use. There's a lot of mass
to get moving in a 12" sub, and a fair amount of energy is required to
accellerate and decellerate it. Plus there's a phenomenon called 'back
EMF' - energy that's 'returned' to the amplifier from wound coils when
their magnetic field colapses (at least that's my simplistic
understanding). I don't know whether it's 'conventional wisdom', but I'd
recommend that you dedicate an amp channel to each sub, and look for
amps that are designed with subwoofers in mind. Keeping the load an
amplifier has to deal with as simple as possible (i.e. one coil) should
help it in its task of moving the sub's cone to accurately follow the
incoming signal. Also pay particular attention to supplying the
subwoofer amps with healthy doses of current - stout power wiring and a
large cap close to the amp's power terminals could easily make more
difference than one brand vs. another, in my opinion. It matters more
for subs than for the other stuff put together.
Just one guy's opinion, for what it's worth :)
Paul
p.s. please forgive me if I'm stating the obvious...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xdp4000x-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-xdp4000x-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bobby
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 8:36 PM
To: xdp4000x-list@matronics.com
Subject: XDP4000X-List: Any amplifier recommendations?
-- XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Bobby" <MRBLACKC@MSN.COM>
I've come a step closer to building my dream system by
getting my hands on a 4000x a few months back. Now
towards the next step in my quest, I find myself with
alot of different options and directions that I can
take, and I was wondering if anyone has any opinions
to offer. I am seeking just pure, clean sound, not
just spl. I want the most accurate reproduction of the
music as possible. I've caught myself in interest in
later model Phoenix Gold M Series amplifiers, due to
the many hookup options, but I was wondering if anyone
out there has any amplifier recommendations. Currently
I'm running a Phoenix Gold M50 for my front component
set, and old Pioneer 100X2 amp for my rear mid bass,
and an Alpine MRV-1505 for subs. I love the sound
from the M50, but the other two amps seem to be lacking
both in power and quality.
Obviously, the pioneer amp will have to go, but I was
unhappily surprised at the final image the Alpine amp
reproduced. It just doesn't seem to have what I'm
looking for. I'm running 2 12" sealed subs, so maybe
it just doesn't have enough power, I'm not sure. Well,
any opinions would be welcome. Thanks in advance.
Bobby
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get <a
href="http://g.msn.com/8HMMEN/2016">3 months FREE*.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Center Channels and Rear Fill. |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: Randy Visentine <jvisentine@yahoo.com>
Howdy!
I don't think using the head unit's RCA's will work
for rear-fill. When you use the XDP, the head unit's
levels become "Fixed" at line level, and the volume is
controlled at the XDP. I am currently only bi-amping
my front stage with subs, so I use my channel "B" for
rear-fill.
Rear fill is to be done in VERY slight moderation -
unless the goal is to provide rear-seat listeners with
more SPL - or in a true 5.1 system (not applicable
here). I have a Tacoma 4x4 x-tra cab with a pair of
MB Quart QM214.03's mounted up high in custom
fiberglass pods. They are delayed slightly more
(distance set shorter than actual) than needed to make
them "melt" into the front stage effectively. The
volume of these rear-fill speakers is almost null.
Just used to add some "Space". I even cross them over
at 500Hz as not to create any more low-mid comb
filtering. Works really well and all sound still
appears to come from the fronts with added bonus of
raising the soundstage.
Some top-notch systems don't even use rear-fill! With
a correctly set up and adequate front stage, rear fill
should be un-necesarry for optimum front-seat imaging.
Enjoy!
Randy V.
Audiophile/Musician/Audio Engineer
--- NOTGSXR@aol.com wrote:
> --> XDP4000X-List message posted by: NOTGSXR@aol.com
>
> Hey guys. I'm just wondering how many of you use
> Center Channels and also
> Rear Fill.
>
> Also, as far as a center channel goes, i know we can
> get the proper signal by
> using a Y adapter for both the left and right output
> and then use those
> signals for a pair of channels on an amp in
> "bridged" mode effectively
> combining the signal, but what about rear fill???
> How could we get that
> signal?? Is it possible to use the rear Analog RCA
> outputs from the headunit
> directly to the amp and use the Front RCA's to the
> 4000X for the Tuner
> Signal???
>
> Also...... awhile back, i asked if anyone had a list
> somewhere of all
> frequencies available for all of the outputs on the
> 4000X.... anyone??? :)
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Dan
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Center Channels and Rear Fill. |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: NOTGSXR@aol.com
In a message dated 12/23/02 3:06:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jvisentine@yahoo.com writes:
> Some top-notch systems don't even use rear-fill! With
> a correctly set up and adequate front stage, rear fill
> should be un-necesarry for optimum front-seat imaging.
Thanks for the response...... I tend to agree......... i havn't used rear
fill for awhile.... but was just wondering what everyone's thoughts
were....... :)
anyone else??
Center Channel??
Thx
Dan
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