Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:27 PM - dynamat experience (Scott Walters)
2. 05:31 PM - XM radio terk antenna (Scott Walters)
3. 05:50 PM - 3 way system up front (Scott Walters)
4. 06:03 PM - autosound 2000 soundstage, imaging (Scott Walters)
5. 06:37 PM - Re: 3 way system up front (NOTGSXR@aol.com)
6. 08:04 PM - Re: 3 way system up front (Scott Walters)
7. 08:05 PM - Re: autosound 2000 soundstage, imaging (John Smith)
8. 09:13 PM - Re: dynamat experience (Dremgragen .)
9. 09:26 PM - Re: 3 way system up front (NOTGSXR@aol.com)
10. 09:38 PM - Re: 3 way system up front (Steven Kephart)
Message 1
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| Subject: | dynamat experience |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Scott Walters" <scott@PacketPushers.com>
Hi all,
I've enjoyed the discussion on this list, on and off topic, relating to
audiophile issues in the car. Thought I'd share some discoveries which may
be useful.
I'm doing a seperate post for each issue for better searchability and
threading in the archives. Starting with the dynamat.
I've got a 1992 Camry LE (first year of camrys 'new' body style) and
knew I had much to gain in the sound proofing department. As we all
probably know road noise is one of the biggest deterring factors for soundq,
especially in the lower frequencies.
I ordered 4 packs of dynamat xtreme off of ebay for about $500 including
shipping. I wanted enough to do the entire car. I read what I could on the
web, and then started in by removing my entire interior except the
dashboard. Once down to sheet metal on the inside, I have a water pressure
cleaner and gave the interior a good cleaning with the brush and soap and
then rinsed it a couple of times. I used a couple large rags to soak up
where water collected. I also took this opportunity to steam clean all of
the interior ulpohstry (carpet, seats, and roof) when they were removed.
Before applying the dynamat, I had a rag and large bottle of rubbing
alcohol. I would scrub the sheet metal down with the dampened alcohol rag
before applying the dynamat. I *highly* recommend this step.
I started on the trunk lid, and looking back, I wished I would have
picked a place that was not visible. The dynamat all-in-all is very easy to
work with, but it takes some getting use to. I am not a full time installer
by any means. After a while I got the hang of using the largest possible
pieces covering the sheet metal. I also had a small 2" roller which was
indespensable. After sizing the dynamat, I'd cut it into shape, remove the
wax paper and apply. Then use the roller to get out any air bubbles. I
learned quick to try and size/cut the dynamat into pieces that would not
tear when rolled.
I started in the trunk and worked my way forward covering any piece of
sheet metal that was large enough to handle say a 2" strip. I used the
extra cuttings in the random places they would fit. You could really go
crazy trying to cover every inch of metal, but after hearing the difference,
I now understand that dynamat is NOT for sound absorption but vibration
dampening. As your system hits varying frequencies, its possible for the
metal to vibrate and become speakers themselves (resonating). An
interesting physical phenomenom, but not good for soundq.
I did the entire trunk, floor, driver and passenger doors (time
consuming), the firewall where I could reach, roof, and transmission area.
I'd say overall the job took 40 hours and I used close to 100 square feet of
dynamat (one entire box left over).
So once I got my car back together and the system on, I started cranking
it up. Easily, the largest noticeable difference was how my bottom end
tightened up. It's like I got a whole new sub and amp (at the time JL 12W3
Pro Wedge, Crossfire 150x2 bridged). I cannot put into words how tight the
bass got.
My original intention was reducing road noise, and I was a little
disappointed in that department. But that was more my lack of understanding
the difference between vibration dampening and sound absorption. I have a
radio shack SPL meter, and with no music, would range from 70-85dbs (bumps),
and now range 70-80dbs. The road noise is noticeably less and the ride is
definitely more 'quiet' but pales in comparision the effect of the bass.
The car has a much more 'solid' feel to it driving, and a noticeable
difference in the pitch of the passenger and driver side doors closing,
compared to the rear doors, which i did not do.
It was not an easy job, and much more time consuming than i thought
(isn't it always), but well worth the labor of love.
So at this point, I am probably going to use the extra pack of dynamat
to apply a second layer in the trunk and find some material specifically
designed for sound absorption to apply on top of the dynamat. Any
recommendations?
scott
Message 2
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| Subject: | XM radio terk antenna |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Scott Walters" <scott@PacketPushers.com>
I've got the XM tuner XT-XM1 with the Terk antenna. I had the antenna
'angled' to be 'aerodynamic' with the car. Approx a 60 angle with the rear
glass. I would lose my signal occasionally in various spots that were not
covered. At first I thought it was just the cold weather (<30 degrees a
lot in PA this winter) because the air was denser.
I then made the antenna go straight up and down and only lost my signal
when going under bridges, overpasses, tunnels, etc. What a difference 30
degrees makes.
scott
----- Original Message -----
From: <Hyo68@aol.com>
Subject: Re: XDP4000X-List: I'm geting popping and crackling in my system
> --> XDP4000X-List message posted by: Hyo68@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 2/10/2003 7:19:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> NOTGSXR@aol.com writes:
>
> >
> > --> XDP4000X-List message posted by: NOTGSXR@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 2/10/03 12:50:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > mpiccin2@hotmail.com writes:
> >
> > >When I listen to CDs (not burned ones) I get popping and crackling
> > sometimes
> > >
> > >through my speakers. I don't have noise (at least I can't hear it) and
I
> > >can't figure out what casue this. Sometimes it happens as I'm chanign
the
> >
> > >volume.
> > >
> > >BTW I have C90 hooked via fibre-optic to 4000x then crappy RCAs to Line
> > >driver to both amps.
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >Mike
> >
> >
> > I kinda had a similar noise coming from my system when i first installed
> > the
> > Used XDP4K...... What i did was reset the system bus and then
re-upload
> > the files to the XDP unit and it cleared it up for me...... Give that a
> > shot...... hope it works out.. Also, get better RCA's to the amps :)
> >
> >
> > Dan
>
> I also had the problem when I started using the newer version of DSC....so
I
> reverted back to the original DSC and it solved the problem.....I think
there
> are a lot of bugs in that newer version
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | 3 way system up front |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Scott Walters" <scott@PacketPushers.com>
After some discussions a while back regarding frequency response of 6.5
drivers up front, I was alarmed that I was getting nothing from mine below
150Hz. I have the Qlogic kick panels, which did wonders for the image, but
lost that wonderful mid-bass. It appears that since the Qlogic panels are
basically a 'free-air' enclosure very close to the carpeting they 6.5's I
crammed in there were 'suffocating'.
After doing some bench testing with another pair of 6.5's and aquiring the
ADS PQ10 and PQ20, i threw them in the doors, and made the 6.5's in the
kicks my 'midranges'.
wow. I now firmly believe you need a 3-way system up front to 'do it
right'. and what a thrill it is to be using A,B,C,D of the 4000 ;) But it
does go to show the 'sin of omission' (Harley, Complete guide to high-end
audio) is the right one.
So now I want to redo my front speakers ( my current JL's can't handle the
ADS ), and also want to put the tweets and midranges up at eye level in the
dash and build custom kick pods for the midbass. My web research has me
looking at the Focal Utopia 165W3 and DynAudio System 340. I've heard dyns
home speakers and love them, but have never auditioned either car sets.
I like the Focals because the mids are crossed over at 300Hz and the Dyns
are at 700Hz. I'd love to keep that octave or so in the mids. But with the
dyns, the mids dont require an enclosure and the focals will.
I am also concerned with the combination of active and passive crossovers.
With the 4000 I could basically match the dyns crossover frequencies but not
the slopes (6db). the 4000 won't let me get close to the crossover
frequencies of the focals. With either i figured i'd be using the low pass
active crossover to keep 78Hz and down away from the midbasses and to the
sub.
I was thinking of not tri-amping the front 3-way (which I am currently
doing), but bi-amping to the midbass, and then the mids/tweets together,
using the passive crossovers.
Any working knowledge out there with similiar setups? I read all the stuff
at audionutz.com, but it seems that is all from the context of passive eq.
Not everyone is blessed with a 4000.
Does anyone have any experience with speaker builder drivers like audax,
seas, vifa etc?
www.partsexpress.com if you're brave. I could seriously blow up my credit
card with a bunch of their goodies.
scott
Message 4
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| Subject: | autosound 2000 soundstage, imaging |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Scott Walters" <scott@PacketPushers.com>
After reading all the info at www.audionutz.com, he recommended the
autosound 2000 set of 5 discs. I've always understood the value of
'reference' material, and was excited about more 'technical' discs to do
evaluations. Crutchfield had all five discs in a set for about $70, and I
went for it.
When reading the www.audionutz.com site, I almost went into shock, when he
said the goal of the center image was to get it floating over the center of
the dashboard. One of the biggest things I love about the 4000, is using
the time delay to nail the image right in the steering wheel (mids and
tweets are in kicks).
I've never competed, so I tune my system purely for myself. I've always
been a bit baffled by reading various posts that say to do RTA and tuning
stuff from the center of the car. I don't sit in the center of the car. I
want it to sound best in the drivers seat.
So once I got the Autosound discs and was going over the imaging and sound
stage disc, I realized that the problem with putting the image right in
front of me, is that the soundstage gets 'squished' on the left. There is a
track where there is a drum beat that pans from left to right, over 7 beats,
and it moves very little on beats 1,2,3,4 (center) and then 'jumps' across
the stage for beats 5,6,7. Beats 5,6,7 actually create a better sense of
'width', but I love the center image.
How do you guys setup your system for image and soundstage? Is sitting off
center, putting the proper soundstage, center image at odds with each other?
scott
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 3 way system up front |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: NOTGSXR@aol.com
In a message dated 2/24/03 8:51:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
scott@packetpushers.com writes:
> After some discussions a while back regarding frequency response of 6.5
> drivers up front, I was alarmed that I was getting nothing from mine below
> 150Hz. I have the Qlogic kick panels, which did wonders for the image, but
> lost that wonderful mid-bass. It appears that since the Qlogic panels are
> basically a 'free-air' enclosure very close to the carpeting they 6.5's I
> crammed in there were 'suffocating'.
>
> After doing some bench testing with another pair of 6.5's and aquiring the
> ADS PQ10 and PQ20, i threw them in the doors, and made the 6.5's in the
> kicks my 'midranges'.
>
> wow. I now firmly believe you need a 3-way system up front to 'do it
> right'. and what a thrill it is to be using A,B,C,D of the 4000 ;) But it
> does go to show the 'sin of omission' (Harley, Complete guide to high-end
> audio) is the right one.
>
> So now I want to redo my front speakers ( my current JL's can't handle the
> ADS ), and also want to put the tweets and midranges up at eye level in the
> dash and build custom kick pods for the midbass. My web research has me
> looking at the Focal Utopia 165W3 and DynAudio System 340. I've heard dyns
> home speakers and love them, but have never auditioned either car sets.
>
> I like the Focals because the mids are crossed over at 300Hz and the Dyns
> are at 700Hz. I'd love to keep that octave or so in the mids. But with
> the
> dyns, the mids dont require an enclosure and the focals will.
>
> I am also concerned with the combination of active and passive crossovers.
> With the 4000 I could basically match the dyns crossover frequencies but
> not
> the slopes (6db). the 4000 won't let me get close to the crossover
> frequencies of the focals. With either i figured i'd be using the low pass
> active crossover to keep 78Hz and down away from the midbasses and to the
> sub.
>
> I was thinking of not tri-amping the front 3-way (which I am currently
> doing), but bi-amping to the midbass, and then the mids/tweets together,
> using the passive crossovers.
>
> Any working knowledge out there with similiar setups? I read all the stuff
> at audionutz.com, but it seems that is all from the context of passive eq.
> Not everyone is blessed with a 4000.
>
> Does anyone have any experience with speaker builder drivers like audax,
> seas, vifa etc?
>
> www.partsexpress.com if you're brave. I could seriously blow up my credit
> card with a bunch of their goodies.
>
> scott
OK Scott.... Perhaps i have some insight for you..... :) I purchased the
165EX Mistral line of Focals (the line that the 165W3 replaced) awhile
back... I am using a PQ20 and a PH15.2 right now. At first, i only used the
PQ20 and the Passive Xovers... Sound was great then.... i completely agree
with you that a 3 way setup is needed....... When i finally got my
XDP4000X...... and got rid of the passives.... can i say.... WOW........
Yes, while i agree the Xover Frequencies are less than i would like...... My
4" mid and the Tweets (biggest noticable difference) still shine... You do
have to play around for awhile (i still have alot to do... and am actually
redoing my speakers as well...... oh yes, for the record, i never used the
TN46 tweets.... since the Utopias were out before i installed them, i
actually used the TN51's which are amazing. As it is right now, the PQ20
only drives the Midbass in 2channel mode..... the 4" Midrange is only
getting 50 a piece from the PH 15 and the Tweets are each getting 100 from
the PH 15 with 2 channels bridged each... The difference in clarity is
really unbelievable...... however...... I may have some better options for
you.....
This is what i plan on doing....
1: Focal Audiom 6W midranges............... an extremely sensitive midrange
that will absolutely blow most other mids out of the water (ok, that was a
bit harsh..... But they are amazing midrange speakers.......... and can be
purchased seperately......)
2: Focal TN 51 tweets or Audiom TLR Tweets....... the TN 51's are crisp and
clear......and can be had for around $200 or so a pair....... The TLR's are
like 4-500 each...... so i would say they are out....... for me anyway......
but amazing i am sure.
3: An 8" midbass such as the Illusion Audio ND-8 or the DEI 8"
Midrange/Midbass speaker...... These speakers have a frequency range i
believe up to about 3K..... Of course i assume you will Cross them over at
500....... A set of these in custom kicks or doors will be amazing.... AS
well as the Audiom 6W's......
I am kind of going through a little bit of power issues as the Auidom 6W is a
6 ohm speaker and according to Focal (i've been on the phone with them
numerous times in the last few years) they need at least 100 watts continuous
to function properly... so the PQ 20 has that task bridged...
I wish i had 3 PQ 20's to do this, but damn... i have 2 PH 15's and one PQ
20.......
Anyway, many things to think about..... i have to run now....... but good
luck.... and feel free to reply..... :)
Dan
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 3 way system up front |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Scott Walters" <scott@PacketPushers.com>
> OK Scott.... Perhaps i have some insight for you..... :) I purchased
the
> 165EX Mistral line of Focals (the line that the 165W3 replaced)
where do you have the midbass,mids, tweets located in your ride? what
volume enclosure do you have on your mid and midbass?
> the 4" Midrange is only
> getting 50 a piece from the PH 15 and the Tweets are each getting 100 from
> the PH 15 with 2 channels bridged each...
wouldn't it be better to bridge to the mids and not the tweets? I find I
have to dial the gain back on my PQ10 to the tweets (which drives my mids
and tweets), quite a bit.
> 1: Focal Audiom 6W midranges............... an extremely sensitive
midrange
> that will absolutely blow most other mids out of the water (ok, that was a
> bit harsh..... But they are amazing midrange speakers.......... and can be
> purchased seperately......)
yeah they look sweet, but i for certain want to put my tweets and mids in
the dash (who needs vents anyway). guessing logisitically - 3" no prob
(dyn), 4" pushing it (focal). 6" no way. i don't want to refab the entire
dash (a la audionutz civic), just cut out enough to put a mid/tweet.
>
> 2: Focal TN 51 tweets or Audiom TLR Tweets....... the TN 51's are crisp
and
> clear......and can be had for around $200 or so a pair.......
i think the TN51s come with the 165W3s
> The TLR's are
> like 4-500 each...... so i would say they are out....... for me
anyway......
> but amazing i am sure.
1 large in tweets? i gotta a lot of other stuff to upgrade before that
would make sense.
> 3: An 8" midbass such as the Illusion Audio ND-8 or the DEI 8"
> Midrange/Midbass speaker...... These speakers have a frequency range i
> believe up to about 3K..... Of course i assume you will Cross them over at
> 500....... A set of these in custom kicks or doors will be amazing.... AS
> well as the Audiom 6W's......
I wouldn't mix manufacturers across drivers. i think you can get away with
it on subs, but in midbass, mids, tweets you want to keep, i think they call
it, tonal balance. I've def seen it in Home Theater, always match your
Left, Center, Right or it doesn't sound right.
the install dudes i've talked to around where I live say about .33 cubic
feet (9l) is about what i can expect from 'normal' kick pods. thats a real
nice match for most 6.5 mid basses. I can't imagine being able to cram 8"
up front and have it hit like its supposed to without significant
enclosure/car cutting work. "The Loudspeaker Design Cookbook" Vance
Dickenson, goes into detail about the importance of enclosures and their
impact on speaker performance (and it also goes into everything else related
to loud speakers).
> I am kind of going through a little bit of power issues as the Auidom 6W
is a
> 6 ohm speaker and according to Focal (i've been on the phone with them
> numerous times in the last few years) they need at least 100 watts
continuous
> to function properly... so the PQ 20 has that task bridged...
i've read 6 ohms too.
> I wish i had 3 PQ 20's to do this, but damn... i have 2 PH 15's and one PQ
> 20.......
i really like only having two amps for a 'quad amped' 4 way system
(4x40,2x80,1x160), simple but solid. 480w. But i could see adding a ded
sub amp in the future and running the PQ10 bridged if the speakers could
handle it/sounded better. I'm with you on the PQ20 tho . . .
scott
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: autosound 2000 soundstage, imaging |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: John Smith <veritasz34@yahoo.com>
Tune the car with RTA information from the canter of
the car. This will create a much wider and deeper
soundstage. Height of the width sectionwill be greatly
affected by the speaker locations(Kicks,doors,dash
etc). I actually did spl measurements from all drivers
and matched them all from the center and this made a
huge difference. Try it if you don't like it just
erase the preset.
--- Scott Walters <scott@packetpushers.com> wrote:
> --> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Scott Walters"
> <scott@PacketPushers.com>
>
> After reading all the info at www.audionutz.com, he
> recommended the
> autosound 2000 set of 5 discs. I've always
> understood the value of
> 'reference' material, and was excited about more
> 'technical' discs to do
> evaluations. Crutchfield had all five discs in a
> set for about $70, and I
> went for it.
>
> When reading the www.audionutz.com site, I almost
> went into shock, when he
> said the goal of the center image was to get it
> floating over the center of
> the dashboard. One of the biggest things I love
> about the 4000, is using
> the time delay to nail the image right in the
> steering wheel (mids and
> tweets are in kicks).
>
> I've never competed, so I tune my system purely for
> myself. I've always
> been a bit baffled by reading various posts that say
> to do RTA and tuning
> stuff from the center of the car. I don't sit in
> the center of the car. I
> want it to sound best in the drivers seat.
>
> So once I got the Autosound discs and was going over
> the imaging and sound
> stage disc, I realized that the problem with putting
> the image right in
> front of me, is that the soundstage gets 'squished'
> on the left. There is a
> track where there is a drum beat that pans from left
> to right, over 7 beats,
> and it moves very little on beats 1,2,3,4 (center)
> and then 'jumps' across
> the stage for beats 5,6,7. Beats 5,6,7 actually
> create a better sense of
> 'width', but I love the center image.
>
> How do you guys setup your system for image and
> soundstage? Is sitting off
> center, putting the proper soundstage, center image
> at odds with each other?
>
> scott
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
>
>
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: dynamat experience |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Dremgragen ." <dremgragen@hotmail.com>
You got ripped off homie. You should have asked around before you made your purchase.
Dynamat is soooooo expensive.
Rick McCallum is the nicest customer-friendly business owner you'll ever meet.
His website is <A href="http://www.raamaudio.com">www.raamaudio.com He sells his
RAAMmat 60 (the better stuff) for a much better price than Dynamat is sold
for, his rolls are twice as big, and quality difference is almost non-existent.
(62.5 sq. ft. verus 30 or 32 sq. ft. Dynamat rolls)
Oh well. :-/
-Brody Z.
From: "Scott Walters" <SCOTT@PACKETPUSHERS.COM>
Subject: XDP4000X-List: dynamat experience
-- XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Scott Walters" <SCOTT@PACKETPUSHERS.COM>
Hi all,
I've enjoyed the discussion on this list, on and off topic, relating to
audiophile issues in the car. Thought I'd share some discoveries which may
be useful.
I'm doing a seperate post for each issue for better searchability and
threading in the archives. Starting with the dynamat.
I've got a 1992 Camry LE (first year of camrys 'new' body style) and
knew I had much to gain in the sound proofing department. As we all
probably know road noise is one of the biggest deterring factors for soundq,
especially in the lower frequencies.
I ordered 4 packs of dynamat xtreme off of ebay for about $500 including
shipping. I wanted enough to do the entire car. I read what I could on the
web, and then started in by removing my entire interior except the
dashboard. Once down to sheet metal on the inside, I have a water pressure
cleaner and gave the interior a good cleaning with the brush and soap and
then rinsed it a couple of times. I used a couple large rags to soak up
where water collected. I also took this opportunity to steam clean all of
the interior ulpohstry (carpet, seats, and roof) when they were removed.
Before applying the dynamat, I had a rag and large bottle of rubbing
alcohol. I would scrub the sheet metal down with the dampened alcohol rag
before applying the dynamat. I *highly* recommend this step.
I started on the trunk lid, and looking back, I wished I would have
picked a place that was not visible. The dynamat all-in-all is very easy to
work with, but it takes some getting use to. I am not a full time installer
by any means. After a while I got the hang of using the largest possible
pieces covering the sheet metal. I also had a small 2" roller which was
indespensable. After sizing the dynamat, I'd cut it into shape, remove the
wax paper and apply. Then use the roller to get out any air bubbles. I
learned quick to try and size/cut the dynamat into pieces that would not
tear when rolled.
I started in the trunk and worked my way forward covering any piece of
sheet metal that was large enough to handle say a 2" strip. I used the
extra cuttings in the random places they would fit. You could really go
crazy trying to cover every inch of metal, but after hearing the difference,
I now understand that dynamat is NOT for sound absorption but vibration
dampening. As your system hits varying frequencies, its possible for the
metal to vibrate and become speakers themselves (resonating). An
interesting physical phenomenom, but not good for soundq.
I did the entire trunk, floor, driver and passenger doors (time
consuming), the firewall where I could reach, roof, and transmission area.
I'd say overall the job took 40 hours and I used close to 100 square feet of
dynamat (one entire box left over).
So once I got my car back together and the system on, I started cranking
it up. Easily, the largest noticeable difference was how my bottom end
tightened up. It's like I got a whole new sub and amp (at the time JL 12W3
Pro Wedge, Crossfire 150x2 bridged). I cannot put into words how tight the
bass got.
My original intention was reducing road noise, and I was a little
disappointed in that department. But that was more my lack of understanding
the difference between vibration dampening and sound absorption. I have a
radio shack SPL meter, and with no music, would range from 70-85dbs (bumps),
and now range 70-80dbs. The road noise is noticeably less and the ride is
definitely more 'quiet' but pales in comparision the effect of the bass.
The car has a much more 'solid' feel to it driving, and a noticeable
difference in the pitch of the passenger and driver side doors closing,
compared to the rear doors, which i did not do.
It was not an easy job, and much more time consuming than i thought
(isn't it always), but well worth the labor of love.
So at this point, I am probably going to use the extra pack of dynamat
to apply a second layer in the trunk and find some material specifically
designed for sound absorption to apply on top of the dynamat. Any
recommendations?
scott
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 3 way system up front |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: NOTGSXR@aol.com
In a message dated 2/24/03 11:05:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,
scott@packetpushers.com writes:
> --> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Scott Walters" <
> scott@PacketPushers.com>
>
>
>
> where do you have the midbass,mids, tweets located in your ride? what
> volume enclosure do you have on your mid and midbass?
>
The Midbass is in the lower Door in the factory location in a 95 Prelude.
The midrange i actually modified the door panel to put it kind of in the
middle front of the door next to the heater vent.....
>
>
> wouldn't it be better to bridge to the mids and not the tweets? I find I
> have to dial the gain back on my PQ10 to the tweets (which drives my mids
> and tweets), quite a bit.
The mids are actually a 3.5 ohm speaker i believe... I wouldn't want to
attempt to bridge the A/D/S at anything less than a 4ohm load.
>
>
> yeah they look sweet, but i for certain want to put my tweets and mids in
> the dash (who needs vents anyway). guessing logisitically - 3" no prob
> (dyn), 4" pushing it (focal). 6" no way. i don't want to refab the entire
> dash (a la audionutz civic), just cut out enough to put a mid/tweet.
I know ideally the mids and tweets should be close.. my tweets are in the
factory location on the corners of the dash aiming inward.... I am going to
play around with this in the future....... I also thought about putting the
4's in the same spot..... it could be done..... but i have my heart set on
the Audiom 6W's... and am going to redo my doors ala fiberglass and mount
both the midbass and midrange in the door i think.... If i feel lucky or
crazy, not sure which.... i may try to do something like the dash on the
Civic......
>
>
> i think the TN51s come with the 165W3s
Yes, that is the tweeter in all Utopia's......
>
> >The TLR's are
> >like 4-500 each...... so i would say they are out....... for me
> anyway......
> >but amazing i am sure.
>
> 1 large in tweets? i gotta a lot of other stuff to upgrade before that
> would make sense.
I agree completely....
>
>
> I wouldn't mix manufacturers across drivers. i think you can get away with
> it on subs, but in midbass, mids, tweets you want to keep, i think they
> call
> it, tonal balance. I've def seen it in Home Theater, always match your
> Left, Center, Right or it doesn't sound right.
I guess i can agree with you a bit..... But ideally i would like to cross my
midbass over at 250 at most, however with the XDP of course.... 500 is the
lowest unless someone can help me get it lower.... I am pretty sure as long
as your midrange and tweets are matched, you would be ok..... perhaps someone
else who has more experience on this list may help?? There is an 8" midrange
around from Focal though i am not sure its here in the states as of yet..
i've seen on on the JM Labs site.... Polyglass V2 i believe.....
>
> the install dudes i've talked to around where I live say about .33 cubic
> feet (9l) is about what i can expect from 'normal' kick pods. thats a real
> nice match for most 6.5 mid basses. I can't imagine being able to cram 8"
> up front and have it hit like its supposed to without significant
> enclosure/car cutting work. "The Loudspeaker Design Cookbook" Vance
> Dickenson, goes into detail about the importance of enclosures and their
> impact on speaker performance (and it also goes into everything else
> related
> to loud speakers).
>
> Those 8's that i mentioned would do well in a .40 or so enclosure with some
> polyfill.... I'm always a student and always trying to learn new things...
> First and foremost, as the last thread that came over the list.... Sound
> Deadening is of the utmost importance...... I think i went overboard with
> my car in that department.... i went through 10 sheets (58 X 36 if memory
> serves me on everything but the doors.... on those i used something a
> little thinner and more flexible.. i believe it was equivelant to the Super
> Dynamat or whatever it is.... The other stuff is exactly the same as
> dynamat without the label..... purchased from <A HREF="www.mcmastercarr.com">www.mcmastercarr.com......
> high temp mastic, and viscoelastic respectively.. $12 and $22 a sheet if
> memory serves me.......
>
> >I wish i had 3 PQ 20's to do this, but damn... i have 2 PH 15's and one PQ
> >20.......
>
> i really like only having two amps for a 'quad amped' 4 way system
> (4x40,2x80,1x160), simple but solid. 480w. But i could see adding a ded
> sub amp in the future and running the PQ10 bridged if the speakers could
> handle it/sounded better. I'm with you on the PQ20 tho . . .
>
> scott
I also have a MMATS D300HC powering 2 audiomobile MASS 2012's.... Also....
I have a friends PQ 10 in the closet as well.. a friend left it there.....
for years..... The PQ 20 is one of the best amps ever made imo..... actually
all of the PQ series amps are top notch..... I also purchased a P650 when
they first came out.... and believe it or not, i used it for awhile.... and
ended up going back to the old school equipment because it just sounded
better to me.... more depth and more detail..... i know i know, people are
going i don't know what i'm talking about etc...... :) but that was my
perception.... the older stuff was just better to me...... Ended up selling
it on eBay and got more than i paid.... so i can't complain..... Anyway,
keep the discussion open and please, anyone help us out :)
Thanks again.
Dan
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 3 way system up front |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Steven Kephart" <kephart@charter.net>
Hello Scott.
First of all, most people recomend doing some
reinforcement on the Q logic kick pannels. You might want
to apply a couple layers to the inside to stiffen it up a
little. That might help out on the lack of midbass.
What kind of a/d/s/ speakers did you have? I used to run
the a/d/s/ 336is.2 component set. They were great
speakers. I recently got a new set to try out, and have
fallen in love with them. It is the Adire Audio Koda
component set. Check them out at adireaudio.com. I was a
little concerned at first because they use a metal
tweeter. And although they were slightly brighter than my
a/d/s/ components, I found that they had a little more
upper frequency that the a/d/s/ tweeters lacked. I think
the a/d/s/ tweeters were cutting off a little early. The
Koda's got that back. They also made up for the lacking
midbass the a/d/s/ had. The Kodas come with a midrange
that has a 7mm linear throw one way. That's more than a
lot of subs. These speakers play LOW. I tried turning
off all high-pass crossovers and just let the set play
full range with no sub. They don't pop like most other
mids when you do this and turn them up. In fact, the only
time I could get them to distrot was when I put a SPL disk
in that plays low frequency sweeps. And even still the
mids were vibrating my car. They are the most impressive
sets I have ever heard. The best part is that they retail
for only $360. They don't look like much, but the
performance is top notch.
I'd recomend looking into them.
Good luck!
Steven Kephart
On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:50:19 -0500
"Scott Walters" <scott@packetpushers.com> wrote:
>--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Scott Walters"
><scott@PacketPushers.com>
>
>After some discussions a while back regarding frequency
>response of 6.5
>drivers up front, I was alarmed that I was getting
>nothing from mine below
>150Hz. I have the Qlogic kick panels, which did wonders
>for the image, but
>lost that wonderful mid-bass. It appears that since the
>Qlogic panels are
>basically a 'free-air' enclosure very close to the
>carpeting they 6.5's I
>crammed in there were 'suffocating'.
>
>After doing some bench testing with another pair of 6.5's
>and aquiring the
>ADS PQ10 and PQ20, i threw them in the doors, and made
>the 6.5's in the
>kicks my 'midranges'.
>
>wow. I now firmly believe you need a 3-way system up
>front to 'do it
>right'. and what a thrill it is to be using A,B,C,D of
>the 4000 ;) But it
>does go to show the 'sin of omission' (Harley, Complete
>guide to high-end
>audio) is the right one.
>
>So now I want to redo my front speakers ( my current JL's
>can't handle the
>ADS ), and also want to put the tweets and midranges up
>at eye level in the
>dash and build custom kick pods for the midbass. My web
>research has me
>looking at the Focal Utopia 165W3 and DynAudio System
>340. I've heard dyns
>home speakers and love them, but have never auditioned
>either car sets.
>
>I like the Focals because the mids are crossed over at
>300Hz and the Dyns
>are at 700Hz. I'd love to keep that octave or so in the
>mids. But with the
>dyns, the mids dont require an enclosure and the focals
>will.
>
>I am also concerned with the combination of active and
>passive crossovers.
>With the 4000 I could basically match the dyns crossover
>frequencies but not
>the slopes (6db). the 4000 won't let me get close to the
>crossover
>frequencies of the focals. With either i figured i'd be
>using the low pass
>active crossover to keep 78Hz and down away from the
>midbasses and to the
>sub.
>
>I was thinking of not tri-amping the front 3-way (which I
>am currently
>doing), but bi-amping to the midbass, and then the
>mids/tweets together,
>using the passive crossovers.
>
>Any working knowledge out there with similiar setups? I
>read all the stuff
>at audionutz.com, but it seems that is all from the
>context of passive eq.
>Not everyone is blessed with a 4000.
>
>Does anyone have any experience with speaker builder
>drivers like audax,
>seas, vifa etc?
>
>www.partsexpress.com if you're brave. I could seriously
>blow up my credit
>card with a bunch of their goodies.
>
>scott
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/xdp4000x-list
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> http://www.matronics.com/browselist/xdp4000x-list
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>
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