Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:57 AM - Re: High end amplifiers? (Brody Z)
2. 04:06 AM - Re: High end amplifiers? (Hyo68@aol.com)
3. 05:42 AM - Re: High end amplifiers? (. .)
4. 05:47 AM - Re: High end amplifiers? (JSujo@aol.com)
5. 06:18 AM - Re: High end amplifiers? (NOTGSXR@aol.com)
6. 06:58 AM - Re: High end amplifiers? (Bobby Braun)
7. 08:33 AM - Re: High end amplifiers? (Scott Walters)
8. 08:35 AM - Re: High end amplifiers? (Scott Walters)
9. 09:49 AM - Re: High end amplifiers? (JSujo@aol.com)
10. 03:48 PM - Re: High end amplifiers? (Hyo68@aol.com)
11. 06:30 PM - Re: High end amplifiers? (Sqxpert@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: High end amplifiers? |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Brody Z" <dremgragen@hotmail.com>
LOL! Man, so many people would flame you for hearing you say that. Zapco is, among
the best. I use 'em and love 'em.
So what did you base your opinion on? Looks?
Listen with your ears man, not with your eyes. If you saw the insides and compared
them with something else, then I can see using your eyes. Otherwise, you're
being as ignorant as it gets.
-Brody Z.
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Bobby Braun" <BOBBYBRAUN@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: XDP4000X-List: High end amplifiers?
-- XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Bobby Braun" <BOBBYBRAUN@COMCAST.NET>
On numerous occasions I've heard of people on this forum that state that
Zapco amps are some of the highest quality amps made. I've just been
briefly looking on ebay at what is offered from Zapco, and I can't honestly
say that I understand where this quality is coming from. Most of the amps
listed sound like something you'd find at a local Radio Shack. I don't know
all too much about the different brand names and differing quality of
amplifiers on the market but would anyone care to take this any further? Any
amp recommendations?
----- Original Message -----
From: "XDP4000X-List Digest Server" <XDP4000X-LIST-DIGEST@MATRONICS.COM>
Subject: XDP4000X-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 11/17/03
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: High end amplifiers? |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: Hyo68@aol.com
I'm gonna have to disagree...Zapco amps are excellent and worth the money -
that is if you have the money to spend. Overall, yes they are expensive, but
they are in the league of the Audison, BRAX, McIntosh, etc....where the
philosophy is not about how much power you can get, but about how much headroom
and
efficient clean audible power you get. I can say this because I've heard them
and used them. They sounded much cleaner than my former '98 PPI PC's with less
power. The symbilink, if you take advantage of it, is the real deal and is
probably a major reason why you spend that extra money. Think of the price for
the
zapco amps and compare them to the price of any other amp plus the
interconnects and the equipment to get a balanced signal. I bet you the price will
look
much more comparable and you won't have to get all that power to acheive that
same sound. If you think they are some Radio Shack stuff...you are sadly
mistaken and if I was mean I would recommend you go for a Pyle, but I'm not messed
up like that. Check them out at a store and in a car then make your
assessment.
Amps I've listened to and used : Arc Audio (comparable to Zapco's and a bit
cheaper I use these now), Audison (excellent amps, could not tell a difference
compared to Zapco, extremely well built), PPI Powerclass (not bad, but they
overheat quickly and I could tell they were distorting the longer the road trip
- probably because my alt couldn't take that and all my other electronics),
McIntosh (not a lot of power, but they are designed well with a lot of
headroom), Alpine V12 last models (same level as powerclass, they aren't bad),
JL
(probably the best deal out there, best layout definitely). If you are using the
xdp and c90, don't skimp out on the amps, you've gone this far so pick a good
amp. The above are my recommendations, if money is a problem I would go for JL
Audio, last generation V12's, Powerclass '98 (after that year the heatsink is
slightly different probably to cut costs making the amp heat excessively more
compared to that of the '98 version), and Arc Audio (they are little bit more
expensive and harder to find on ebay though). If you have money to spend, yes,
check out the Zapcos if you want the symbilink, BRAX comes with lifetime
warranty, Audison just looks awesome, and McIntosh is McIntosh.
www.zapco.com
http://www.audiotec-fischer.com/ - BRAX
www.audison.com
well, you get the idea...
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: High end amplifiers? |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: ". ." <mpiccin2@hotmail.com>
Actaully I had to read this twice casue I was trying to figure out how you
could say that and not state that you have heard these amps before. Your
make judgements about amps from ebay listings? Thats how you do
research...how did you end up with a C90 or 4000x? BTW ebay sells old Zapc
stuff and ususally newer equipment doesn't come up. Try going to the Zapco
website (www.zapco.com) and looking at the competition amps. Phoenix Gold,
PPi, orion are some other good names.
Mike
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Bobby Braun" <BOBBYBRAUN@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: XDP4000X-List: High end amplifiers?
-- XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Bobby Braun" <BOBBYBRAUN@COMCAST.NET>
On numerous occasions I've heard of people on this forum that state that
Zapco amps are some of the highest quality amps made. I've just been
briefly looking on ebay at what is offered from Zapco, and I can't honestly
say that I understand where this quality is coming from. Most of the amps
listed sound like something you'd find at a local Radio Shack. I don't know
all too much about the different brand names and differing quality of
amplifiers on the market but would anyone care to take this any further? Any
amp recommendations?
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: High end amplifiers? |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: JSujo@aol.com
I never owned Zapco, but the consensus is that they are great for SQ and are
quite reliable....I have had 2 McIntosh amps, which I loved,,an MC431 (4x100)
and a MC427 (2x100),,,I sold them and bought very cheaply 2 ADCOM amps,,,,a
lot less power, but nothing but clean audiophile quality sound....they have no
bass boost or xovers,,,all amp. excellent quality.
Brax, Helix, Audison, Tru (nicest looking), Zapco, Mcintosh ( i bought mine
used), maybe even the tube hybrids from Tube Blue Drivers (seem to be
loved)....also Arc Audio does goof stuff...or you can pay 2500.00 for a pure tube
amp
by Milbert...(David Berning's design)
jack
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: High end amplifiers? |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: NOTGSXR@aol.com
How about any of the Older A/D/S stuff such as PQ 20's, PQ 10's, and PH
15's??? I still think these are some of the best out there..... and a great combo
for the XDP4k... :)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: High end amplifiers? |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Bobby Braun" <bobbybraun@comcast.net>
Ok, enough with the punches. I based my opinion solely on written specs,
power ratings, and looks. The amps listed on ebay were all going for
relatively cheap so maybe they were lower end, but in that case Zapco must
have some very low end equipment. I heard one mention of the increase in
headroom, but when an amp's specs state a s/n of 80 db, that makes me think
of turning the radio up to a relatively low volume and hearing background
hiss, decreasing the headroom to that comparable to a cassette, and
distortion ratings at .2%, quite high compared to the average amps out
there, and not seeing power ratings go much over 150 rms at nominal inputs,
it just made me wonder. I didn't mean to start anything nasty here but at
least you guys started talking, it's been quite some time since anyone's put
up any comments online here. My opinion clearly stands where as looking at
the info that I glanced at, (being very minimal since I've yet to check out
Zapco's website). Based on what I saw there, I would look elsewhere in my
search for an amplifier. Maybe I was wrong, but really we're all here for
the same reason, we all have higher standards, and we all enjoy clear music.
Maybe all of this emotion over a brand name will get me to take a second
look, but lets all be open about what's really the real deal out there. In
my opinion, I would think that this symbilink system has one major flaw,
that being converting the signal from RCA to it's own balanced format. To
me that would seem as senseless as using the C-90's RCA's to output to the
4000x having to convert back to digital from analog again. Just isn't the
cleanest way to go. Personally I use older 92-95 model Phoenix Gold amps in
my system, and after growing accustomed to their flaws have become used to
their sound. But I was just curious if there was something more to it than
just high power or brand recognition.
----- Original Message -----
From: ". ." <mpiccin2@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: XDP4000X-List: High end amplifiers?
> --> XDP4000X-List message posted by: ". ." <mpiccin2@hotmail.com>
>
> Actaully I had to read this twice casue I was trying to figure out how you
> could say that and not state that you have heard these amps before. Your
> make judgements about amps from ebay listings? Thats how you do
> research...how did you end up with a C90 or 4000x? BTW ebay sells old Zapc
> stuff and ususally newer equipment doesn't come up. Try going to the
Zapco
> website (www.zapco.com) and looking at the competition amps. Phoenix
Gold,
> PPi, orion are some other good names.
>
> Mike
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Bobby Braun" <BOBBYBRAUN@COMCAST.NET>
> To: <XDP4000X-LIST@MATRONICS.COM>
> Subject: XDP4000X-List: High end amplifiers?
> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:13:34 -0600
>
> -- XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Bobby Braun" <BOBBYBRAUN@COMCAST.NET>
>
> On numerous occasions I've heard of people on this forum that state that
> Zapco amps are some of the highest quality amps made. I've just been
> briefly looking on ebay at what is offered from Zapco, and I can't
honestly
> say that I understand where this quality is coming from. Most of the amps
> listed sound like something you'd find at a local Radio Shack. I don't
know
> all too much about the different brand names and differing quality of
> amplifiers on the market but would anyone care to take this any further?
Any
> amp recommendations?
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: High end amplifiers? |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: Scott Walters <scott@packetpushers.com>
ahhhh, glad to see the chat about amps here. Cause i am looking to
upgrade ;)
> they are in the league of the Audison, BRAX, McIntosh, etc....where the
i def agree that in this league of amps 'better' is EXTREMELY subjective.
if you're not picking the amp based on how it is going to sound in your
car and your system you are a fool.
snipping review
> amp. The above are my recommendations, if money is a problem I would go for JL
> Audio, last generation V12's,
I am currently using ADS PQ10 bridged for my tweet/mid (dyn 340 with x360a
passive xover) PQ20 bridged for the dyn 6's. i prefer the passive xover
2way upfront vs all active 3way upfront. the tweet/mid lose some 'space'
but the coherency and soundstage improvements are worth it.
I haven't heard many other systems nor amps in my car, but anyway, the ADS
are very musical and handle complex passages well. they seem to lack a
little 'slam' but overall for the money (used on ebay) you won't be
disappointed.
in doing my install i've called dynaudio USA many times (their support is
world class), and the guy also recommended linear power.
http://www.linearpower.com/ he said its great cheap clean power. anyone
with experience? They look kinda hokey, but the dyn guy has no reason
fib. his a-list was brax.
I also have to agree the JL sub amp is a 'great' fit for the c90 and
xdp4000. its crossover capabilities really mesh with will the xdp4000
inadequcies. i run ~700Hz and below to the JL 500, send ~70Hz and below
to the subs, then run ~70Hz - ~700Hz to the PQ20 for my 6's up front.
really nice having more control over those low freq xover and slope.
from my ear the 24/72 slope choice is practically indiscernable.
--
Scott Walters
-PacketPusher
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: High end amplifiers? |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: Scott Walters <scott@packetpushers.com>
On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Bobby Braun wrote:
> --> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Bobby Braun" <bobbybraun@comcast.net>
>
> Ok, enough with the punches. I based my opinion solely on written specs,
> power ratings, and looks.
And that was the point of the punches. We are trying to politely tell you
you are basing your opinion on the wrong things. It's how the amp sounds
that is important, not its specs.
--
Scott Walters
-PacketPusher
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: High end amplifiers? |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: JSujo@aol.com
In a message dated 11/19/2003 11:36:30 AM Eastern Standard Time,
scott@packetpushers.com writes:
in doing my install i've called dynaudio USA many times (their support is
world class), and the guy also recommended linear power.
http://www.linearpower.com/ he said its great cheap clean power. anyone
with experience?
I know many people who use linear power amps, and they love them...
jack
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: High end amplifiers? |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: Hyo68@aol.com
i understand that how an amp sounds from say an alpine to a brax is
subjective and may not be detectable. But many will agree that (if you have listened
to
a lot of amps) that there is a change in the transparency in the sound - some
amps sound "warm" and other's sound completely transparent, and some sound
"thin" (hopefully you all can understand this terminology, I know it's not
exactly a great description). And some amps just have better low end output
(probably due to damping factor among other things) because they have faster response
- when I went from my ppi's to the arc's there was noticible difference in
bass response with the same speakers and sub... even though the arc's were less
is wattage (and I've used many a PPI PC). By the way, yes to the Phoenix Gold
Ti's - those are awesome amps.
On another note, I agree that this was a good way to get the forum going
again. And thanks to those that convinced me to keep my c90/4kxdp!!!!
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: High end amplifiers? |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: Sqxpert@aol.com
hi- just wanted to say , there has been no wrong answer here, that i see,
and if i was to choose new ampsto replace all 4 of my tube drivers, i would
have to say ppi- pg, or zapco
maybe even some of the older mtx amps as well
tim koehle
meca sql custom class
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