---------------------------------------------------------- XDP4000X-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 11/27/03: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:53 AM - Re: Loud tweeters....Is there an echo in here ? (Sqxpert@aol.com) 2. 01:15 PM - Re: Loud tweeters....Is there an echo in here ? (Dick Brussee) 3. 01:39 PM - Re: Loud tweeters....Is there an echo in here ? (Dick Brussee) 4. 02:13 PM - Re: Loud tweeters....Is there an echo in here ? (Sqxpert@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:05 AM PST US From: Sqxpert@aol.com Subject: Re: XDP4000X-List: Loud tweeters....Is there an echo in here ? --> XDP4000X-List message posted by: Sqxpert@aol.com i can honestly say that if you are running things @ 72db- it could definately cause phaseing issues i have a few settings in my car- and one of them , os @ all 72db my center goes from being exact center, to going as wide as lc-to-rc and maybe even some more than that tim koehle meca sql custom class ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:15:23 PM PST US From: "Dick Brussee" Subject: Re: XDP4000X-List: Loud tweeters....Is there an echo in here ? --> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Dick Brussee" Hello, thanks for thinking with me.... Isn't there any test-CD title I can buy for this kind of tests ? Dick > Have you run a frequency sweep sample on your system since making your > changes, listening to the levels of your channels, the transitions between > your different crossover points, and the peaks and valleys of your frequency > response? If you haven't that'd be the first step I'd recommend. I'd say > that you run the test at least through your highest crossover point, the > higher the frequency, the more difficult it can be to make those minute > adjustments, but it's always my first step I take after making any changes > to my stereo. I have a program that can generate a frequency sweep if you > need, but it get's pretty technical after you have to separate the different > frequency sweeps and their speed of the increase in frequency, track the > ratio of time vs frequency so you know what sound you're hearing at what > time, and to burn it to cd. But in any case, you'll be able to hear > exactly what your ears think your stereo is doing (wrong). Anyways, good > luck, let me know if I can help you out anymore. > > Bobby > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dick Brussee" > To: > Subject: XDP4000X-List: Loud tweeters....Is there an echo in here ? > > > > --> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Dick Brussee" > > > > Hello XDP people, > > > > I was the one with the loud tweeters.... Well, I've done it ! I have > rewired my carstereo.... > > > > After days of tuning (it never sounds right) I find it sounding like an > echo. especially when the music has a little echo in it itself. The sub is > sometimes too loud, sometimes I hear no sub where I should hear sub. And > sometimes the bass of the sub is perfect ! > > > > I typed in all the inches from ear to speaker. > > > > I have : > > high : 2 tweeters - 4.00 khz -24db/oct > > mid : 2 woofers front - 78 hz -36 db/oct <-> 4.00k -24 db/oct > > low : 2 woofers in the back of the frontdoor which I use as : > > 78 hz -72 db/oct <-> 500 Hz -72 db/oct > > > > And the sub : 78Hz -72 db/oct > > > > High -1 db l+r > > mid 0 db l+r > > low -10 db l+r > > sub 0 db l+r > > > > What am I doing wrong here ? > > > > Dick Brussee > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:39:51 PM PST US From: "Dick Brussee" Subject: Re: XDP4000X-List: Loud tweeters....Is there an echo in here ? --> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Dick Brussee" Ok, the amps are XM-4045's from Sony... I have them quite a while now. I only use the crosovers from the xdp4000x D 36 Left 53 Right C 37 left 56 right B 30 left 47 right A 63 left and 63 right I tell you about the -10 db.... When I did that, the echo was less irritating, so I think I should disable those speakers and have a 2-way at the front and the sub only at the back.... I think that's much better, but I will try it once the wetter gets better over here..... Well, that's it for now.. Thanks for thinking with me.... Dick Brussee > --> XDP4000X-List message posted by: Randy Visentine > > Hi! > > What amps are driving what drivers, and do any of the > amps have any kind of DSP built in (Like Fosgate's > newer X series). > > If you are getting an "echo", it sounds like either > you have a distance parameter WAY out of spec, or your > amps are somehow delaying the signal relative to each > other. You are sure you have the correct output > (A,B,C,D) feeding the correct amp and so forth? > > I have yet to "Fine Tweak" my system, but even with > the exact distance measurements entered, I get a > fantastic center image, but stereo width is slightly > narrow. I MUCH prefer an accurate center image over > "hyped" L/R seperation anyday! No "Echo" issues here > with a bi-amped front, an "inconspicuous" rear fill > set-up, and a sub cluster. Go figure. > > Just out of curiosty, what are your distance settings > per channel, per side (A Left = ?"; A Right = ?", > etc.) > > One more thing, I would mirror the 36dB slope on the > mid-range for the "woofer" in your door. As it > stands, your "Mid" is actually getting more bass than > your "Woofer" since the woofer has a steeper low-end > cutoff of 72 dB at 78Hz. And why do you have the > "Mid-Bass" out set to -10dB relative to the others? > > Since these drivers overlap in the 78Hz - 500Hz > region, you will end up with phase issues if the > delays are different for these channels (80Hz will be > in phase from the front to the rear of the door > without any delay, adding delay will screw up the > phase in the low mid-bass region). You might want to > throw a second active crossover (or use the amp's if > it has one) to cut off the woofer WAY lower (like 150 > or 200Hz) - this will reduce phase issues in the upper > midrange if the delays are set identical for mid-bass > reinforcement. I find 250Hz gets Boomy really quick, > and midrange drivers usually do just fine in this > range without any help from a woofer. If only the XDP > had more x-over frequencies live the XES - I'd be in > heaven! > > Anyway, good luck! > > Later, > Randy V. > C90 + 4000X > C910 + 210EQ > > --- Dick Brussee wrote: > > --> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Dick Brussee" > > > > > > Hello XDP people, > > > > I was the one with the loud tweeters.... Well, I've > > done it ! I have rewired my carstereo.... > > > > After days of tuning (it never sounds right) I find > > it sounding like an echo. especially when the music > > has a little echo in it itself. The sub is sometimes > > too loud, sometimes I hear no sub where I should > > hear sub. And sometimes the bass of the sub is > > perfect ! > > > > I typed in all the inches from ear to speaker. > > > > I have : > > high : 2 tweeters - 4.00 khz -24db/oct > > mid : 2 woofers front - 78 hz -36 db/oct <-> 4.00k > > -24 db/oct > > low : 2 woofers in the back of the frontdoor which I > > use as : > > 78 hz -72 db/oct <-> 500 Hz -72 db/oct > > > > And the sub : 78Hz -72 db/oct > > > > High -1 db l+r > > mid 0 db l+r > > low -10 db l+r > > sub 0 db l+r > > > > What am I doing wrong here ? > > > > Dick Brussee > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > http://companion.yahoo.com/ > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:13:37 PM PST US From: Sqxpert@aol.com Subject: Re: XDP4000X-List: Loud tweeters....Is there an echo in here ? --> XDP4000X-List message posted by: Sqxpert@aol.com test cd- check any local pro audio shop in your town , i m pretty shure they should have something that will work for you happy t- day everyone(im full!) tim koehle