Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:38 AM - Re: c90 and such... (Bobby Braun)
2. 11:00 AM - Re: MP3 Playback Skipping... (Matt Dralle)
3. 11:10 AM - Re: c90 and such...MP3 changers!!! (DB)
4. 11:12 AM - Re: MP3 Playback Skipping... (DB)
5. 01:17 PM - Re: c90 and such... (Roland M)
6. 04:03 PM - Re: Sony Product Press release (Scott Thibault)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: c90 and such... |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Bobby Braun" <bobbybraun@comcast.net>
To be honest here, I worked with the 210eq for over 2 years before I
upgraded to the 4000x. I'm sure the hiss they're talking about is quite
dependant on the type of music you listen to, but this hiss was never a
major issue to me. I get the feeling that this is the sort of issue that,
once you notice it, if you're picky enough, you'll find yourself noticing it
over and over again thereafter. I'm quite picky, but, I did not have that
issue.
But, if you were to ask me if I'd ever go back to the 210eq, no thanks. The
quality of the dac's in that particular unit are so inferior to those in the
4000x and the c90, it really shames the quality of equipment that you'd be
using. There were major differences in the quality of the mid's and the
high's that I noticed immediately after making the switch, I can't even
begin to explain.
If you have a c90 already, and don't have the $$ to upgrade to the 4000x,
personally I'd skip the 210eq and output directly to my amps. That is my
opinion, but then again the 210eq does have some nice features built in, and
if you're going for spl, none of these issues should really matter to you.
And one major option when using the 210eq that you'd lose when upgrading to
the 4000x is the subwoofer volume control. Again, it's not something you
find yourself missing if you're going for quality, I find now that I've set
my system properly to my liking, I never make any changes to the eq.
Now, unless you're dead set on using the c90 or have already bought it, you
might want to think about using a different head and save some $$.
Personally I don't see the point of spending loads of money on the head when
you're processor which is running digital in the first place will be the
only deciding factor of sound quality. As long as you're using a head with
a digital out, appearance would be the only difference. I'm not sure of all
the models Sony made with DSP control and digital out, but I'm sure there
are more than the c90 and c910. Then again, I love the cool blue color of
the volume control at night, with the display dimmed, it looks much better
than those noisy newer heads with flashy screen savers and futuristic colors
and shaping.
Again, I must say, the 4000x was the best decision I've made since I went
with Sony ES, the clarity is just awe inspiring to me, still, everytime I
get in the car. I wish you the best of luck in your system, whichever
direction you take, hope some of this makes sense to you.
----- Original Message -----
From: "One Park" <paikiah@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: XDP4000X-List: c90 and such...
> --> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "One Park" <paikiah@hotmail.com>
>
> >Yeah, but both the C90 and the 210EQ would be using digital volume. The
> >thing is once you hook up an XDP unit, the C90 no longer controls the
> >volume, the XDP unit does. The control is still handled by the C90 as a
> >user interface but it is acutally the XDP which changes the volume. This
> >is
> >why you will find there will be a certain point (if you're playing back
> >pure
> >silence) that the hiss will come on. It actually quite weird because it
is
> >really just like that--it just goes from not being there to being "on"
just
> >like that. Anyhow if you use the XDP-210EQ what I described is a way to
> >avoid that situation. Truth be told when the volume is up that high you
> >aren't going to notice the added hiss while actually listening to program
> >material--well I don't at least.
>
> Ah, okok... so basically raise my gains enough so I don't "enter the hiss
> realm"
> Got it.:) Curious.. jsut what kind of hiss are we talking about? As loud
as
> what you'd get on a tape deck?
>
> >Really? The 757MX skips with MP3 discs? Do you mean it skips due to
read
> >errors or it skips because of impact/rough roads? You'd think the buffer
> >would hold quite a bit of information in MP3 mode thus eliminating any
> >skips
> >due to vibration. I'm guessing it just can't read the discs very well?
In
> >that case I'd try a different brand of CD-R or RW (depending on what you
> >are
> >using). Give Verbatim discs with the AZO or Super AZO dyes a try. The
> >original AZO ones can be found in their "Vinyl" CD-Rs (look like records)
> >and the Super AZO in their current DataLife Plus line. Barring that you
> >could also try discs with black bottoms and see if that helps.
>
>
> Yes, it skips with mp3, and the SLIGHTEST bump will do that. I'm thinking
> maybe something's wrong with the MP# conversion thingy, since CD's don't
> EVER skp, even if I shake it violently with my hands (yes, i literally did
> it to test )
> About brands, I thought that might have been the prob, so what I did was
try
> various brands (except TDK). Tried imation, kodak, samsung, and a horad of
> loudy b grade stuff as well (We're talking USD20 for 50~80 CD's) I'll give
> the black surface a try. Technically, it shouldn't have any difference at
> all, all just 1's and 0's...
>
>
> >Ahh, I dunno--if it is in mint condition in might be a "collector's item"
> >but even then I'd imagine it wouldn't really be a collector's item at
all.
> >Not many people looking for those processors these days. You might get
> >$50-$100 US for it on eBay though. Even 210EQs aren't fetching much
these
> >days--they are usually going around $100-$120 or so. People are all into
> >new fancy dancy HUs with screens, MP3, DVD, etc. etc. Plus there haven't
> >been any Sony models for pretty much the last 4-5 years that can even
> >control an XDP unit--they stopped DSP control a long time ago :(
> >
> >You could keep the U50D for old time's sake or for another car, or just
> >sell
> >it--it's up to you.
>
> Since it's served me so well for so long, I think i'll more than likely
keep
> it. Thanks!~
>
>
> >Well you're right--the chances are that you won't hear a difference in
the
> >D/As. That is why I said that some people would say the above. Not
> >everyone would agree. Some people would see the EQ and crossover
> >adjustments from the 210EQ to outweigh the fact that it uses lesser D/As
> >(which probably aren't very different audibly to most people anyway).
The
> >210EQ is still a very competent unit for what it does, IMO.
>
> So basically, I'll be happy with the 210EQ anyhow. Still, the 4000x looks
> very tempting. God knows I dont need it, but then again....hmmmm
>
> >
> >Hey no problem! Hope everything works out with the new gear! The C90 is
a
> >really nice peice! :)
>
> Yupyup~
>
> also, if things go well, i might be ble to get my hands on the XES here in
> about 3 months time. Gotta see why that's so hyped. I wasn't too impressed
> with the Alpine F1 anyway. no diff to me.
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | MP3 Playback Skipping... |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
>
> >Really? The 757MX skips with MP3 discs? Do you mean it skips due to read
> >errors or it skips because of impact/rough roads? You'd think the buffer
> >would hold quite a bit of information in MP3 mode thus eliminating any
> >skips
> >due to vibration. I'm guessing it just can't read the discs very well? In
> >that case I'd try a different brand of CD-R or RW (depending on what you
> >are
> >using). Give Verbatim discs with the AZO or Super AZO dyes a try. The
> >original AZO ones can be found in their "Vinyl" CD-Rs (look like records)
> >and the Super AZO in their current DataLife Plus line. Barring that you
> >could also try discs with black bottoms and see if that helps.
>
>
>Yes, it skips with mp3, and the SLIGHTEST bump will do that. I'm thinking
>maybe something's wrong with the MP# conversion thingy, since CD's don't
>EVER skp, even if I shake it violently with my hands (yes, i literally did
>it to test )
>About brands, I thought that might have been the prob, so what I did was try
>various brands (except TDK). Tried imation, kodak, samsung, and a horad of
>loudy b grade stuff as well (We're talking USD20 for 50~80 CD's) I'll give
>the black surface a try. Technically, it shouldn't have any difference at
>all, all just 1's and 0's...
This problem with the MP3s is probably more due to the encoding (ripping)
method you are using. Have you checked to see if the errors always occur
at the same place? I have a Phatbox and when I first got it, certain songs
would "skip", generally always at the same spot. The problem was related
to a combination of two things; the poor performance of the ripping utility
I was using (Phatnoise Music Manager), and poor I/O performance of the
computer system I was ripping it on.
The later releases of the Phatnoise Music Manger are much better now and I
rip at 128bpm at the Maximum Quality setting. On my main Windows system it
takes about 30 seconds to rip a 4 minute song.
The other problem seems to be poor I/O performance of the given Windows
system. When I first got my Phatbox, I wanted to rip all 1000 of my CDs,
which, at 30 seconds per song x 1000 CDs x 10 songs per CD = ~84 hours of
continuous ripping!
Not wanting to sit and rip CDs for 4 straght days, I setup a couple of old
laptops and a couple of other old computers I could get my hands on. The
ripping of the collection went much faster, but what happened was that all
of the songs that were ripped on the older laptops suffered badly from
"skipping". I finally just had to go back and re-rip all of the CDs that I
had done on the old laptops. Fortunately, the system clocks on the two old
laptops were off by about a year, so it made it easy to find the "bad rips"
from the good rips from the file date stamps. Whew.
Anyway, I reripped all of those CDs on my new Windows system and haven't
had any skipping problems.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: c90 and such...MP3 changers!!! |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: DB <dbotel6500@rogers.com>
Funny you've mentioned the MP3 changer...
I bought one of the first MP3 changers (the 6 disc model) last year, and
it was great,
except for the fact that it would skip only on MP3 songs! It drove me
nuts, until it finally
died a slow and painful death...(bought the unit in january/03) Heck, I
wouldn't even hit
a bump, and it skipped!
Sony exchanged the 6 disc model for the 10 disc model 757MX...(This was
later last
year) Never skipped on me since. :-)
I'm wondering if your unit is under warranty, and they could swap it for
a newer version...
My guess would have to be that the earlier units have buggy firmware in
place. The one
I have now works like a champ, never skips period.
>Yes, it skips with mp3, and the SLIGHTEST bump will do that. I'm thinking
>maybe something's wrong with the MP# conversion thingy, since CD's don't
>EVER skp, even if I shake it violently with my hands (yes, i literally did
>it to test )
>About brands, I thought that might have been the prob, so what I did was try
>various brands (except TDK). Tried imation, kodak, samsung, and a horad of
>loudy b grade stuff as well (We're talking USD20 for 50~80 CD's) I'll give
>the black surface a try. Technically, it shouldn't have any difference at
>all, all just 1's and 0's...
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: MP3 Playback Skipping... |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: DB <dbotel6500@rogers.com>
Good point, matt.
As well, I found with the older changer, that it would skip mostly with
VBR MP3 encoded tracks.
CBR tracks were as prone to skipping...
I guess, YMMV!
Daniel
Matt Dralle wrote:
>--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
>
>
>
>
>>>Really? The 757MX skips with MP3 discs? Do you mean it skips due to read
>>>errors or it skips because of impact/rough roads? You'd think the buffer
>>>would hold quite a bit of information in MP3 mode thus eliminating any
>>>skips
>>>due to vibration. I'm guessing it just can't read the discs very well? In
>>>that case I'd try a different brand of CD-R or RW (depending on what you
>>>are
>>>using). Give Verbatim discs with the AZO or Super AZO dyes a try. The
>>>original AZO ones can be found in their "Vinyl" CD-Rs (look like records)
>>>and the Super AZO in their current DataLife Plus line. Barring that you
>>>could also try discs with black bottoms and see if that helps.
>>>
>>>
>>Yes, it skips with mp3, and the SLIGHTEST bump will do that. I'm thinking
>>maybe something's wrong with the MP# conversion thingy, since CD's don't
>>EVER skp, even if I shake it violently with my hands (yes, i literally did
>>it to test )
>>About brands, I thought that might have been the prob, so what I did was try
>>various brands (except TDK). Tried imation, kodak, samsung, and a horad of
>>loudy b grade stuff as well (We're talking USD20 for 50~80 CD's) I'll give
>>the black surface a try. Technically, it shouldn't have any difference at
>>all, all just 1's and 0's...
>>
>>
>
>
>This problem with the MP3s is probably more due to the encoding (ripping)
>method you are using. Have you checked to see if the errors always occur
>at the same place? I have a Phatbox and when I first got it, certain songs
>would "skip", generally always at the same spot. The problem was related
>to a combination of two things; the poor performance of the ripping utility
>I was using (Phatnoise Music Manager), and poor I/O performance of the
>computer system I was ripping it on.
>
>The later releases of the Phatnoise Music Manger are much better now and I
>rip at 128bpm at the Maximum Quality setting. On my main Windows system it
>takes about 30 seconds to rip a 4 minute song.
>
>The other problem seems to be poor I/O performance of the given Windows
>system. When I first got my Phatbox, I wanted to rip all 1000 of my CDs,
>which, at 30 seconds per song x 1000 CDs x 10 songs per CD = ~84 hours of
>continuous ripping!
>
>Not wanting to sit and rip CDs for 4 straght days, I setup a couple of old
>laptops and a couple of other old computers I could get my hands on. The
>ripping of the collection went much faster, but what happened was that all
>of the songs that were ripped on the older laptops suffered badly from
>"skipping". I finally just had to go back and re-rip all of the CDs that I
>had done on the old laptops. Fortunately, the system clocks on the two old
>laptops were off by about a year, so it made it easy to find the "bad rips"
>from the good rips from the file date stamps. Whew.
>
>Anyway, I reripped all of those CDs on my new Windows system and haven't
>had any skipping problems.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Matt Dralle
>
>
>Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
>925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
>http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: c90 and such... |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Roland M" <mdx400@hotmail.com>
>--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Bobby Braun" <bobbybraun@comcast.net>
>
>I'm not sure of all
>the models Sony made with DSP control and digital out, but I'm sure there
>are more than the c90 and c910.
Actually, AFAIK I thought the CDX-C90 and C910 and the MDX-400 were the only
HUs that had both DSP Control and the digital out. (Someone please correct
me if I'm mistaken...).
Unfortunately the MDX-400 on it's own (i.e. using its pre-amp and having the
MDX-400 as the HU in a system) you can't control the XDP-210EQ properly.
The MDX-400 was made to control the U50D or (analog-only) 766EQ. Using the
210EQ with the 400 alone and you just get "Digital Bass" and "Digital
Treble" as well as balance, fader, etc. controls. You can't access the EQ
presets or even the EQ settings themselves. Since the 400 doesn't work
properly with the 210EQ, I'd imagine that it could not be used properly with
the 4000X either as it is even more complex.
The predecessor to the C910, I *think* that was the CDX-C900 (?)--it didn't
have a digital output I don't *think* but I could be wrong. Still, even if
it did I would imagine its DSP Control functionality would be like the
MDX-400's.
Roland M.
Find out everything you need to know about Las Vegas here for that getaway.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Sony Product Press release |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: Scott Thibault <tbone7467@yahoo.com>
here you go:
http://news.sel.sony.com/xplod/
Roland M <mdx400@hotmail.com> wrote:
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Roland M"
>From: Scott Thibault
>Reply-To: xdp4000x-list@matronics.com
>To: xdp4000x-list@matronics.com
>Subject: XDP4000X-List: Sony Product Press release Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004
>07:28:37 -0800 (PST)
>
>--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: Scott Thibault
>
>
>HEARING IS BELIEVING:SONY'S NEW XPLOD LINE OF HEAD UNITS BRING LIFE AND
>EXCITEMENT BACK TO CAR AUDIO
>
>
>LAS VEGAS (CES, Booth #N110), Jan. 7, 2004 - A longtime leader in car
>audio, Sony Electronics is set to revitalize the mobile electronics
>industry with its 2004 line of Xplod head units featuring new technology
>and enhanced styling.
>
>
Thanks for the info Scott! But do you have the link (URL) available for this
press release? The reason I ask is b/c I'd like to see the pics (if there
are any). Are there any pics to go with this?
Nice that they are coming out with some new stuff that SOUNDS a bit
promising. I mean nothing major, but at least an improvement over older
Xplod stuff--they seem to be improving each year which is at least something
good if not great. This S-Drive thing--120dB S/N??? Wow--sounds pretty
optimistic but I'm sure it has to do something good right?
Roland M.
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