Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:08 AM - strut inflation. (Mark Jefferies)
2. 05:07 AM - Re: TCP Use (Craig Payne)
3. 05:33 AM - Re: Fuel tanks (Rob Rowe)
4. 05:45 AM - Re: Fuel tanks (Gus Fraser)
5. 06:29 AM - Re: TCP (Brian Lloyd)
6. 07:24 AM - Re: TCP Use (D Zeman)
7. 08:57 AM - Re: Re: TCP Use (Craig Payne)
8. 09:06 AM - Power output M14 (was TCP) (Gus Fraser)
9. 09:34 AM - Re: Re: Re: TCP Use (D Zeman)
10. 09:48 AM - Re: strut inflation. (Ernie)
11. 09:49 AM - Re: Fuel tanks (Ernie)
12. 09:59 AM - Re: strut inflation. (Ernie)
13. 02:45 PM - Re: Re: Re: Re: TCP Use (Craig Payne)
14. 05:27 PM - Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TCP Use (D Zeman)
15. 08:31 PM - Re: Timing (Craig Payne)
Message 1
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| Subject: | strut inflation. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Jefferies" <mark@yakuk.com>
Ernie.
The special tool for strut inflation is easy to purchase, ask George Coy or order
one from us. It screws onto the valve then there is another screw shaft that
depresses the inner part of the valve, you then just inflate. All this connects
to the standard ground air pipes. If you look at the data plate on the strut
it will have the pressure market on it but an easy way is to depress the wing
tip and note how hard it travels to full extension again.
This valve is used on all FSU a/c, MIG's, L-29. L-39 all YAK's from 3 to 55 I have
seen, so should be pretty common amongst maintenance shops.
happy new year, mark.
Is there any magic to adding gas, is it a special fitting that I'll never find,
and do I have to use nitrogen, or can I use air since I don't go o altitudes.
Also what pressure should it be charged up to, and what do you guys use as a pressure
guage?
Message 2
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Craig Payne <cpayne@mc.net>
Lead fouling or perhaps oil fouling on the lower plugs? I doubt whether
TCP would hurt anything, only using it will prove whether it makes a
difference. Then there is the issue of what technique you use to warm
up, taxi, and mag check.
What sort of plugs are you using? The Champions hold up very well and I
have had better luck with the Chinese plugs in the M-14P than the
Russian plugs.
Craig Payne
> --> Yak-List message posted by: D Zeman <curious_wings@yahoo.com>
>
> I have had 2 instances of multiple lead plug fouling
> with my M14P this winter. I am positive it is due to
> the longer fast idle to temp times.
>
> I am not an additive kind of guy, but I am considering
> Alcor's TCP to reduce this sort of thing. Has anyone
> had any experience or can comment first hand on the
> subject?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> D. Zeman
Message 3
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Rob Rowe" <rarowe@ntlworld.com>
Hi Ernie,
Has a similar fuel imbalance problem a couple of years back whereby the port
tank tended to retain more fuel than the starboard tank, over time this got
progressively worse until a 30+ litre imbalance could occur within a 50
minute flight - tried all the usual checks but problem persisted.
Also checked the underwing tank vents (later YAK 52s have a vent per tank,
earlier models had a communal vent) to see if they were equally angled into
the slip stream (seems this can cause an air pressure imbalance between
tanks impacting fuel flow as well as the flow of excess "return" fuel from
the pumping system - the lower pressure tank gets the most fuel). Allegedly
this is a common issue on YAK 18s due to their larger capacity tanks and
therefore greater endurance which exacerbates the problem - supposedly not
so common on standard short range 52s.
Anyway - took off one day on full tanks and while climbing away started to
smell fuel and noticed a stream emanating from the port wing filler - I
landed immediately and checked to find that the circular synthetic fuel cap
seal had stretched (probably from repeated over tightening of the cap).
Got a replacement and found that this cured both the leak and the imbalance
problems ... my speculation is that as the seal progressively stretched it
effectively vented the tank to the low pressure on the upper wing surface
ultimately causing it to siphon fuel, but in the interim caused the port
tank to be at lower pressure than the starboard one and less likely to give
up its fuel and/or become the favoured tank for the return of excess fuel.
Problem has not re-occurred since - so for what it's worth it may pay you to
spend a few dollars on a new fuel cap seal as a quick hit ... I also make
sure that I don't over tighten the filler caps now and always do this myself
when refuelling.
Hope this helps ...
Rob Rowe (G-YAKX)
Message 4
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
Rob,
A very useful addition. I had never thought of that as a possibility. I
guess the best way to prove if that is the case is to just swap the caps and
see if the fault transfers.
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rob Rowe
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Fuel tanks
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Rob Rowe" <rarowe@ntlworld.com>
Hi Ernie,
Has a similar fuel imbalance problem a couple of years back whereby the port
tank tended to retain more fuel than the starboard tank, over time this got
progressively worse until a 30+ litre imbalance could occur within a 50
minute flight - tried all the usual checks but problem persisted.
Also checked the underwing tank vents (later YAK 52s have a vent per tank,
earlier models had a communal vent) to see if they were equally angled into
the slip stream (seems this can cause an air pressure imbalance between
tanks impacting fuel flow as well as the flow of excess "return" fuel from
the pumping system - the lower pressure tank gets the most fuel). Allegedly
this is a common issue on YAK 18s due to their larger capacity tanks and
therefore greater endurance which exacerbates the problem - supposedly not
so common on standard short range 52s.
Anyway - took off one day on full tanks and while climbing away started to
smell fuel and noticed a stream emanating from the port wing filler - I
landed immediately and checked to find that the circular synthetic fuel cap
seal had stretched (probably from repeated over tightening of the cap).
Got a replacement and found that this cured both the leak and the imbalance
problems ... my speculation is that as the seal progressively stretched it
effectively vented the tank to the low pressure on the upper wing surface
ultimately causing it to siphon fuel, but in the interim caused the port
tank to be at lower pressure than the starboard one and less likely to give
up its fuel and/or become the favoured tank for the return of excess fuel.
Problem has not re-occurred since - so for what it's worth it may pay you to
spend a few dollars on a new fuel cap seal as a quick hit ... I also make
sure that I don't over tighten the filler caps now and always do this myself
when refuelling.
Hope this helps ...
Rob Rowe (G-YAKX)
Message 5
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
At 12:50 AM 12/31/2002, you wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: D Zeman <curious_wings@yahoo.com>
>
>I have had 2 instances of multiple lead plug fouling
>with my M14P this winter. I am positive it is due to
>the longer fast idle to temp times.
>
>I am not an additive kind of guy, but I am considering
>Alcor's TCP to reduce this sort of thing. Has anyone
>had any experience or can comment first hand on the
>subject?
Avgas already has a lead-scavenging agent in it but TCP does help. The
only problem is that it works at higher temperatures, not at idle
temperatures. I use it religiously in US engines designed for 80/87 to
reduce lead fouling (and reduce valve sticking) but it doesn't work well at
idle.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Ste 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 +1.360.838.9669
Message 6
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--> Yak-List message posted by: D Zeman <curious_wings@yahoo.com>
Hi Craig,
It is a fuel fouling scenario; each time included top
plugs (no oil evidence). Last winter it came up after
doing power-off and emergency landings (extended times
at low power). This winter, it has happened twice.
My techniques include slow taxi, but power up from
time to time on long taxis. Mag/prop checks at 70%
power, but begin and finish each individual check with
a 10-15 sec clearing hold at power. Shut-downs at 65%
for 45 sec before turning mags off at idle. Do you
suggest something different?
Thanks for your help,
D.
Message 7
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Craig Payne <cpayne@mc.net>
D.
Winter air is rather dense, hence the possibility of an over-rich idle
setting setting. Do you know where both your main and idle jets are set?
eg: how many clicks rich/lean? I also use an dual EGT guage, one probe
on each side as a diagnostic. Helps detect fouled plugs, etc.
I mix 100LL fuel with alcohol-free unleaded autogas in a 1:1 ratio. The
small farm where I hanger has both so it's easy for me, and we get the
benefit of agricultural use prices.
Craig Payne
>
> Hi Craig,
>
> It is a fuel fouling scenario; each time included top
> plugs (no oil evidence). Last winter it came up after
> doing power-off and emergency landings (extended times
> at low power). This winter, it has happened twice.
>
> My techniques include slow taxi, but power up from
> time to time on long taxis. Mag/prop checks at 70%
> power, but begin and finish each individual check with
> a 10-15 sec clearing hold at power. Shut-downs at 65%
> for 45 sec before turning mags off at idle. Do you
> suggest something different?
>
> Thanks for your help,
> D.
====================================================
Message 8
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| Subject: | Power output M14 (was TCP) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
Good thing to do I always hold at 60% for a few seconds just to make sure
that the Ts & Ps are OK before doing the 70% checks. From time to time it is
possible to get a 5% drop. A 5% drop means losing one plug from the cycle.
Often this will clear on departure but if it persists it will need to be
looked at. This year I carried out some tests on the static thrust of the
M14P the results were interesting and just go to show what a great engine
this is. Basically the results were
All plugs = 2190 lbs thrust at 100 %
One plug removed completely = 2080 lbs @ 100%
two plugs removed completely (adjacent cylinders) 900 lbs @100 %
I wrote up the details of this test which I have if anyone is interested I
can contribute it to all redstar if you want it.
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of D Zeman
Subject: Yak-List: Re: TCP Use
--> Yak-List message posted by: D Zeman <curious_wings@yahoo.com>
Hi Craig,
It is a fuel fouling scenario; each time included top
plugs (no oil evidence). Last winter it came up after
doing power-off and emergency landings (extended times
at low power). This winter, it has happened twice.
My techniques include slow taxi, but power up from
time to time on long taxis. Mag/prop checks at 70%
power, but begin and finish each individual check with
a 10-15 sec clearing hold at power. Shut-downs at 65%
for 45 sec before turning mags off at idle. Do you
suggest something different?
Thanks for your help,
D.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Re: Re: TCP Use |
--> Yak-List message posted by: D Zeman <curious_wings@yahoo.com>
Thanks Craig.
I have always been tentative about using autofuel. So
I am assuming your experience has been good? Do you
ever run on straight 100LL? Any noticeable changes?
Cheers,
D.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: strut inflation. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Have you got a number for George Coy, I'd order one directly from you but
shipping from across the pond may be expensive and time consuming.
many thanks
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Jefferies" <mark@yakuk.com>
Subject: Yak-List: strut inflation.
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Jefferies" <mark@yakuk.com>
>
> Ernie.
>
> The special tool for strut inflation is easy to purchase, ask George Coy
or order one from us. It screws onto the valve then there is another screw
shaft that depresses the inner part of the valve, you then just inflate. All
this connects to the standard ground air pipes. If you look at the data
plate on the strut it will have the pressure market on it but an easy way is
to depress the wing tip and note how hard it travels to full extension
again.
> This valve is used on all FSU a/c, MIG's, L-29. L-39 all YAK's from 3 to
55 I have seen, so should be pretty common amongst maintenance shops.
>
> happy new year, mark.
>
>
> Is there any magic to adding gas, is it a special fitting that I'll never
find,
> and do I have to use nitrogen, or can I use air since I don't go o
altitudes.
> Also what pressure should it be charged up to, and what do you guys use as
a pressure
> guage?
>
>
Message 11
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
I will swap the caps, I like easy troubleshooting tips like these :) :)
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gus Fraser" <fraseg@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Fuel tanks
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
>
> Rob,
> A very useful addition. I had never thought of that as a possibility. I
> guess the best way to prove if that is the case is to just swap the caps
and
> see if the fault transfers.
>
> Gus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rob Rowe
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Fuel tanks
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Rob Rowe" <rarowe@ntlworld.com>
>
> Hi Ernie,
> Has a similar fuel imbalance problem a couple of years back whereby the
port
> tank tended to retain more fuel than the starboard tank, over time this
got
> progressively worse until a 30+ litre imbalance could occur within a 50
> minute flight - tried all the usual checks but problem persisted.
>
> Also checked the underwing tank vents (later YAK 52s have a vent per tank,
> earlier models had a communal vent) to see if they were equally angled
into
> the slip stream (seems this can cause an air pressure imbalance between
> tanks impacting fuel flow as well as the flow of excess "return" fuel from
> the pumping system - the lower pressure tank gets the most fuel).
Allegedly
> this is a common issue on YAK 18s due to their larger capacity tanks and
> therefore greater endurance which exacerbates the problem - supposedly
not
> so common on standard short range 52s.
>
> Anyway - took off one day on full tanks and while climbing away started to
> smell fuel and noticed a stream emanating from the port wing filler - I
> landed immediately and checked to find that the circular synthetic fuel
cap
> seal had stretched (probably from repeated over tightening of the cap).
>
> Got a replacement and found that this cured both the leak and the
imbalance
> problems ... my speculation is that as the seal progressively stretched it
> effectively vented the tank to the low pressure on the upper wing surface
> ultimately causing it to siphon fuel, but in the interim caused the port
> tank to be at lower pressure than the starboard one and less likely to
give
> up its fuel and/or become the favoured tank for the return of excess fuel.
>
> Problem has not re-occurred since - so for what it's worth it may pay you
to
> spend a few dollars on a new fuel cap seal as a quick hit ... I also make
> sure that I don't over tighten the filler caps now and always do this
myself
> when refuelling.
>
> Hope this helps ...
>
> Rob Rowe (G-YAKX)
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: strut inflation. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
I called George and he doesnt have the original adapter. How much does the
adapter cost? If I can afford it I'll take one :)
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Jefferies" <mark@yakuk.com>
Subject: Yak-List: strut inflation.
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Jefferies" <mark@yakuk.com>
>
> Ernie.
>
> The special tool for strut inflation is easy to purchase, ask George Coy
or order one from us. It screws onto the valve then there is another screw
shaft that depresses the inner part of the valve, you then just inflate. All
this connects to the standard ground air pipes. If you look at the data
plate on the strut it will have the pressure market on it but an easy way is
to depress the wing tip and note how hard it travels to full extension
again.
> This valve is used on all FSU a/c, MIG's, L-29. L-39 all YAK's from 3 to
55 I have seen, so should be pretty common amongst maintenance shops.
>
> happy new year, mark.
>
>
> Is there any magic to adding gas, is it a special fitting that I'll never
find,
> and do I have to use nitrogen, or can I use air since I don't go o
altitudes.
> Also what pressure should it be charged up to, and what do you guys use as
a pressure
> guage?
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Re: Re: TCP Use |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Craig Payne <cpayne@mc.net>
D.
Yes I run 100LL when cross country since that's usually all I can get. I
haven't run a "straight" M14-P until now with a fresh engine but I'll
soon see what results I'll get when I check the plugs. I have been using
Chinese plugs and have about 35 hrs on this engine now. My previous M14
was setup with Chinese mags, plugs and ported heads. With 31 degrees
full advance, I could pull 900mm MP at sea level.
Craig Payne
>
> Thanks Craig.
>
> I have always been tentative about using autofuel. So
> I am assuming your experience has been good? Do you
> ever run on straight 100LL? Any noticeable changes?
>
> Cheers,
> D.
====================================================================
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TCP Use |
--> Yak-List message posted by: D Zeman <curious_wings@yahoo.com>
How many Re:'s can we get? ;-)
Thanks for the input Craig. I have been religious
about getting my engine (straight Russian) into the
green before take-off (yellow for run-up). I know
some state that our "superior" oil allows pre yellow
run-ups and yellow take-offs, but a few more minutes
to enjoy my machine doesn't bite me - may be it does
during Zima.
I think I will be trying some TCP soon. Hopefully by
not changing anything else I can make some sort of
comparison, although not scientific by any stretch.
BTW, although the printed upper limit of timing is 16
deg BTDC on the M14P, do you have a feel for what is
an upper limit that is safe for all around operation?
Best wishes in the New Year to all!
D.
Message 15
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Craig Payne <cpayne@mc.net>
No limit to Re's, the same subjects seem to cycle a couple of times of
year with each batch of new owners and/or new experiences. Plug fouling
seems to be a problem with my Sukhoi friends also. The way they operate
their engines differs considerably from what I do. They use the A-B
method:
1) Take "A" lever (either throttle or prop) and put it full forward.
Then take the Other lever put it full forward and let it "B(e)".
As far as mag timing goes, remember that 16 degrees on the prop
translates to 23 degrees on the crankshaft (M-14P). I ran mine
successfully for about 125 hours at 31 degrees full advance on the crank
but only with Chinese mags & spark interrupter that offer considerably
less kickback at startup.
Happy New Year, time to pop the bubbly take a quick drink and hit the
sack while my woman does evening maintenance on her face. Oh well,
tomorrow is still just another day.
Craig Payne
>
> How many Re:'s can we get? ;-)
>
> Thanks for the input Craig. I have been religious
> about getting my engine (straight Russian) into the
> green before take-off (yellow for run-up). I know
> some state that our "superior" oil allows pre yellow
> run-ups and yellow take-offs, but a few more minutes
> to enjoy my machine doesn't bite me - may be it does
> during Zima.
> I think I will be trying some TCP soon. Hopefully by
> not changing anything else I can make some sort of
> comparison, although not scientific by any stretch.
>
> BTW, although the printed upper limit of timing is 16
> deg BTDC on the M14P, do you have a feel for what is
> an upper limit that is safe for all around operation?
>
> Best wishes in the New Year to all!
> D.
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