Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:00 AM - flashlight (Jon Boede)
2. 04:03 AM - M-14-PF Mags (Don Boardman)
3. 05:40 AM - Re: M-14-PF Mags (A. Dennis Savarese)
4. 05:42 AM - M9-35M Mags (cpayne@mc.net)
5. 06:45 AM - (Deon Esterhuizen)
6. 07:15 AM - Re: Airworthiness limitations (A. Dennis Savarese)
7. 07:41 AM - Re: Sea Fest 2003 (Ernest Martinez)
8. 07:41 AM - Re: (A. Dennis Savarese)
9. 08:00 AM - Re: (Deon Esterhuizen)
10. 08:43 AM - Re: (A. Dennis Savarese)
11. 09:23 AM - Re: M-14-PF Mags (Doug)
12. 10:14 AM - Sea Fest 2003 (MFilucci@aol.com)
13. 10:18 AM - Re: (Deon Esterhuizen)
14. 10:24 AM - Re: Sea Fest 2003 (Michael Di Marco)
15. 10:36 AM - Re: Sea Fest 2003 (Ernest Martinez)
16. 12:19 PM - Re: Re: Fuel transfer (Doug)
17. 12:31 PM - Re: Sea Fest 2003 (Ernie)
18. 12:54 PM - Re: Re: Fuel transfer (Ernie)
19. 01:09 PM - Re: Re: Fuel transfer (Brian Lloyd)
20. 01:50 PM - Re: Re: Fuel transfer (Ernie)
21. 02:33 PM - Re: Re: Fuel transfer (Craig Payne)
22. 03:00 PM - Russian Aircraft resource (Yakjock)
23. 03:06 PM - Re: Re: Fuel transfer (Brian Lloyd)
24. 03:45 PM - Re: Re: Fuel transfer (Jim Ivey)
25. 03:57 PM - Uneven fuel burn (Lou Dakos)
26. 04:29 PM - Re: Re: Fuel transfer (Brian Lloyd)
27. 04:59 PM - Re: Re: Fuel transfer (Ernie)
28. 05:38 PM - Re: Re: Fuel transfer (Roy O. Wright)
29. 07:37 PM - Re: (Walt Lannon)
30. 07:56 PM - mags (cjpilot710@aol.com)
31. 08:05 PM - Re: Re: Fuel transfer (Walt Lannon)
32. 08:56 PM - Re: Uneven fuel burn (Walt Lannon)
Message 1
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@zoso.email.net>
I've had a AA-battery powered LED flashlight that I picked up from REI in
my airplane for about 100 hours now. I remarked to myself the other night
as to how well it fits in the little shotgun-shell holder on my CJ and how
it's still glowing bright on the first battery I put in it after quite a
bit of use. I think it was about $25.
It's not particularly often that you find something that works really
well, so I thought I'd pass that along.
Jon
Message 2
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Don Boardman <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
Hi All,
We are building a Murphy Moose and presently need to purchase the high
voltage starter (shower of sparks/induction coil) for our M9-0 mags on our
M-14PF. At this time we are researching to see if swapping mags to M9-35M
would be a better way to go. Anyone have any input on this? Better with the
sparks unit "built In" or simply just another way of accomplishing the same
thing. Are there going to be any reasons in reference to the future with
parts or maintenance with either of the mags. Any of your thoughts would be
appreciated. Thanks for your help.
Regards,
Don Boardman
& Partner, Randy Bowers
Super Moose #130 M-14PF 400HP, MT-prop, Aerocet 3500 amphibs, Rome, NY
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: M-14-PF Mags |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Don,
First check the model number of the mag you labeled M9-0. It more than
likely is an M9-F. Assuming it is an M-9F, neither mag has a shower of
sparks or starting coil built in. The starting coil enters the mag at the
front top. You will still need an external starting coil for either type
mag. The difference between the M9F and M9-35 is the -35's have a
centrifugal advance and the M9-F does not. You do not time the -F's
and -35's the same way. The 400HP M14 with M9-35's on the YAK 52TW uses a
Slick starting coil. Stew Cochran, YAK Parts Central or Gesoco Industries
(George Coy) may have the stock YAK 52 starting coil, KP-4716. Go to my web
site, www.yak-52.com, and click on the LINKS page for their specific contact
information.
Best regards,
Dennis Savarese
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Boardman" <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
Subject: Yak-List: M-14-PF Mags
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Don Boardman <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
>
> Hi All,
>
> We are building a Murphy Moose and presently need to purchase the high
> voltage starter (shower of sparks/induction coil) for our M9-0 mags on our
> M-14PF. At this time we are researching to see if swapping mags to M9-35M
> would be a better way to go. Anyone have any input on this? Better with
the
> sparks unit "built In" or simply just another way of accomplishing the
same
> thing. Are there going to be any reasons in reference to the future with
> parts or maintenance with either of the mags. Any of your thoughts would
be
> appreciated. Thanks for your help.
>
> Regards,
> Don Boardman
> & Partner, Randy Bowers
> Super Moose #130 M-14PF 400HP, MT-prop, Aerocet 3500 amphibs, Rome, NY
>
>
Message 4
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@mc.net
Don,
I'd use the -35 auto advance mags for both a smoother start with less
"kickback" and an efficient advance setting on the high end. Since the Chinese
mags are similiar, I'd use the Chinese "Shower of sparks" which
is an interrupter that clamps to your engine mount.
BTW, I believe the Aerostar version; M-14PFX uses the M9-35M mag standard.
Craig Payne
yak-list@matronics.com wrote:
Yak-List: M-14-PF Mags
From: Don Boardman <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
--> Yak-List message posted by: Don Boardman <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
Hi All,
We are building a Murphy Moose and presently need to purchase the high
voltage starter (shower of sparks/induction coil) for our M9-0 mags on our
M-14PF. At this time we are researching to see if swapping mags to M9-35M
would be a better way to go. Anyone have any input on this? Better with the
sparks unit "built In" or simply just another way of accomplishing the same
thing. Are there going to be any reasons in reference to the future with
parts or maintenance with either of the mags. Any of your thoughts would be
appreciated. Thanks for your help.
Regards,
Don Boardman
& Partner, Randy Bowers
Super Moose #130 M-14PF 400HP, MT-prop, Aerocet 3500 amphibs, Rome, NY
Message 5
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Deon Esterhuizen" <desterhuizen@hyphos360.com>
I have a very strange problem on my Yak-52. Intermittently when I flip
the master switch on and then any other switch such as the engine
instruments the power completely cuts out and every thing is dead -
sometimes when I switch the master on this happens as well. Not a peep
from the electrical system at all - as dead as a doornail - the over
voltage protection button did not pop out. Try to start the plane with
the toe lever but to no avail, everything is completely dead.
I measured continuity between the positive lead of the battery
(disconnect it from the battery) and the 30amp busbar located in the
fiberglass relay box located on the right hand side of the firewall and
found that there was a very high resistance between the battery lead and
the busbar - it seems that there must be a current protection or
something between the battery and the busbar, although the electrical
schematic does not have an indication of such a device between the
battery and the busbar. After a while (hour or so) the power will be
back and be ok then for a couple of days (sometimes), week (making you
think you solved the problem) and then it happens again. Once the plane
runs the voltage and current seems to be fine - checking it on the
instrument panel voltage gauge.
This is my procedure to start with the toe lever - is this correct???
1) Prop and prime as normal
2) Mags off as normal
3) Push started button and hit the toe lever
4) flip mags when engine starts - but the engine just swings, not any
sign of sparks on the plugs.
I filled the air system twice and ran all the air down trying to start -
but nothing.
Any suggestions
Thanks in advance
Deon
Yak-52
N192YK
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Airworthiness limitations |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
In addition to trying to find another Broussard with operating limitations
written differently , you could probably enlist the help of the EAA in
getting your dilema resolved.
Good luck
Dennis Savarese
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christy Painter" <Wild.Blue@Verizon.net>
Subject: Yak-List: Airworthiness limitations
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Christy Painter" <Wild.Blue@Verizon.net>
>
> Any Yaksters out there flying Max Holste MH1521 Broussards? I have one
> with a small problem. It is restricted to round trip flights beginning
> and ending at the point of origin except as listed in the Annual Program
> Letter or for maintenance. I have always understood that to mean that
> flights to airports not listed in the Program letter could be made at
> will by simple notification by fax 24 hours prior to the flight. In any
> case, do any other Broussard owners have similar limitations? If no,
> I'd like to show your limitations to my FSDO to get this one removed.
> Help!
>
>
Message 7
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez" <Ernest.Martinez@oracle.com>
I'm concerned about the restricted areas over the port. The barge canal is
southern boundry for the inner restricted area for the launch complex. Sea
Fest I beleive is held over in the North terminal which is North of the
canal. Also since 9/11 the outer restricted area which used to start at 3000
MSL now has been dropped to the ground, and is closed if there is a shuttle
on the pad. Flying into COI (Merritt Island) requires and act of congress to
fly into now when the TFR is hot. There is a launch scheduled for May 23rd
and the shuttle usually sits on the pad for about a month.
Ernie
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
MFilucci@aol.com
Subject: Yak-List: Sea Fest 2003
--> Yak-List message posted by: MFilucci@aol.com
In a message dated 1/10/03 5:37:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
cjpilot710@aol.com writes:
> I believe it around the West Palm area.
Sea Fest is on a site adjacent to the Cape Canaveral/Kennedy Space Center
launch center. I flew in an eleven-ship formation over the site last year (3
passes). It is a good opportunity to practice some mass formation work for a
crowd that really appreciates the sight of our airplanes overhead.
Message 8
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Wow! This is surely a strange one. I guess what I'd do is pull the large
relay unit inside the fiberglass relay box. It's the one on the left. It's
not too difficult a job and I know you are competent enough to do it. Just
be sure to mark all the leads you remove (and there is a bunch) with masking
tape. But first, draw a replica/diagram and mark the wire connection points
on the diagram. Then mark the tape on each lead accordingly.
After you remove the large relay unit, you'll see a section on top which can
be removed. There will probably be some red Loctite type material on the
screws. Clean out the screw heads before you attempt to unscrew the screws.
They're slotted and will definitely get "chewed up" if you don't clean the
material from the head first. Now remove the cover. Inside you will see a
set of contacts. Actually, I think there may be two sets of contacts. You
should clean and burnish the contacts. I can't remember if there is an
adjustment to set the gap between the contacts. I think there is, but I
simply can't remember. If there is, you may want to close the gap very
slightly after you clean and burnish the contacts. You can test the
contacts opening and closing by using external leads connected to the
battery. If they don't close immediately when 24V is applied, you should
try adjusting the throw on the relay. Then reinstall it and see what
happens. If you call George Coy at GESOCO in NH, he could probably give you
even more insight.
Your manual starting procedure is partially correct. You still must have
the BATTERY and IGNITION switches on the right side in the UP position. The
problem is no current from the battery to the "shower of sparks" when you
press the START button. The only benefit of the toe-engaged air start valve
lever is to bypass the air start solenoid (on the top section of the air
start valve) that is normally engaged when you press the start button. If
the solenoid fails AND you have battery voltage, when you engage the START
button, you apply current to the "shower of sparks" or starting coil. By
pressing the lever on the air start valve with your foot you open the air
start valve manually thus bypassing the air start solenoid on the top of the
air start valve.
Hope this helps. Feel free to call me if you need to.
Take care.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deon Esterhuizen" <desterhuizen@hyphos360.com>
Subject: Yak-List:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Deon Esterhuizen"
<desterhuizen@hyphos360.com>
>
> I have a very strange problem on my Yak-52. Intermittently when I flip
> the master switch on and then any other switch such as the engine
> instruments the power completely cuts out and every thing is dead -
> sometimes when I switch the master on this happens as well. Not a peep
> from the electrical system at all - as dead as a doornail - the over
> voltage protection button did not pop out. Try to start the plane with
> the toe lever but to no avail, everything is completely dead.
>
> I measured continuity between the positive lead of the battery
> (disconnect it from the battery) and the 30amp busbar located in the
> fiberglass relay box located on the right hand side of the firewall and
> found that there was a very high resistance between the battery lead and
> the busbar - it seems that there must be a current protection or
> something between the battery and the busbar, although the electrical
> schematic does not have an indication of such a device between the
> battery and the busbar. After a while (hour or so) the power will be
> back and be ok then for a couple of days (sometimes), week (making you
> think you solved the problem) and then it happens again. Once the plane
> runs the voltage and current seems to be fine - checking it on the
> instrument panel voltage gauge.
>
> This is my procedure to start with the toe lever - is this correct???
> 1) Prop and prime as normal
> 2) Mags off as normal
> 3) Push started button and hit the toe lever
> 4) flip mags when engine starts - but the engine just swings, not any
> sign of sparks on the plugs.
>
> I filled the air system twice and ran all the air down trying to start -
> but nothing.
>
> Any suggestions
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Deon
> Yak-52
> N192YK
>
>
Message 9
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Deon Esterhuizen" <desterhuizen@hyphos360.com>
Thanks as always Dennis - So what I gather from your mail firstly is
that it is impossible to start the plane with the toe lever if there is
no power from the battery.
The problem with removing the relay is that when I bypass the line
coming from the battery to the relay 24V (I use a wire from the battery
positive terminal down the bottom of the plane into the side panel and
on the relay input)line the relay works with no problem - so it seem to
be something that cuts out between the battery and the input on the
relay mentioned.
Deon.
-----Original Message-----
From: A. Dennis Savarese [mailto:adsavar@gte.net]
Subject: Re: Yak-List:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Wow! This is surely a strange one. I guess what I'd do is pull the
large
relay unit inside the fiberglass relay box. It's the one on the left.
It's
not too difficult a job and I know you are competent enough to do it.
Just
be sure to mark all the leads you remove (and there is a bunch) with
masking
tape. But first, draw a replica/diagram and mark the wire connection
points
on the diagram. Then mark the tape on each lead accordingly.
After you remove the large relay unit, you'll see a section on top which
can
be removed. There will probably be some red Loctite type material on
the
screws. Clean out the screw heads before you attempt to unscrew the
screws.
They're slotted and will definitely get "chewed up" if you don't clean
the
material from the head first. Now remove the cover. Inside you will
see a
set of contacts. Actually, I think there may be two sets of contacts.
You
should clean and burnish the contacts. I can't remember if there is an
adjustment to set the gap between the contacts. I think there is, but I
simply can't remember. If there is, you may want to close the gap very
slightly after you clean and burnish the contacts. You can test the
contacts opening and closing by using external leads connected to the
battery. If they don't close immediately when 24V is applied, you
should
try adjusting the throw on the relay. Then reinstall it and see what
happens. If you call George Coy at GESOCO in NH, he could probably give
you
even more insight.
Your manual starting procedure is partially correct. You still must
have
the BATTERY and IGNITION switches on the right side in the UP position.
The
problem is no current from the battery to the "shower of sparks" when
you
press the START button. The only benefit of the toe-engaged air start
valve
lever is to bypass the air start solenoid (on the top section of the air
start valve) that is normally engaged when you press the start button.
If
the solenoid fails AND you have battery voltage, when you engage the
START
button, you apply current to the "shower of sparks" or starting coil.
By
pressing the lever on the air start valve with your foot you open the
air
start valve manually thus bypassing the air start solenoid on the top of
the
air start valve.
Hope this helps. Feel free to call me if you need to.
Take care.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deon Esterhuizen" <desterhuizen@hyphos360.com>
Subject: Yak-List:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Deon Esterhuizen"
<desterhuizen@hyphos360.com>
>
> I have a very strange problem on my Yak-52. Intermittently when I flip
> the master switch on and then any other switch such as the engine
> instruments the power completely cuts out and every thing is dead -
> sometimes when I switch the master on this happens as well. Not a peep
> from the electrical system at all - as dead as a doornail - the over
> voltage protection button did not pop out. Try to start the plane with
> the toe lever but to no avail, everything is completely dead.
>
> I measured continuity between the positive lead of the battery
> (disconnect it from the battery) and the 30amp busbar located in the
> fiberglass relay box located on the right hand side of the firewall
and
> found that there was a very high resistance between the battery lead
and
> the busbar - it seems that there must be a current protection or
> something between the battery and the busbar, although the electrical
> schematic does not have an indication of such a device between the
> battery and the busbar. After a while (hour or so) the power will be
> back and be ok then for a couple of days (sometimes), week (making you
> think you solved the problem) and then it happens again. Once the
plane
> runs the voltage and current seems to be fine - checking it on the
> instrument panel voltage gauge.
>
> This is my procedure to start with the toe lever - is this correct???
> 1) Prop and prime as normal
> 2) Mags off as normal
> 3) Push started button and hit the toe lever
> 4) flip mags when engine starts - but the engine just swings, not any
> sign of sparks on the plugs.
>
> I filled the air system twice and ran all the air down trying to start
-
> but nothing.
>
> Any suggestions
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Deon
> Yak-52
> N192YK
>
>
Message 10
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
I loaned my schematics to someone recently, so I'm trying to do this without
the benefit of them. If we think about this logically, the only time
battery voltage is applied to the relay in question is when the battery
switch is on. Thus, applying battery voltage directly to the relay, you are
bypassing the battery switch. I would then suspect a defective battery
switch, which BTW is also a breaker. Your symptom is acting just like a
weak circuit breaker. ie: it works, then opens up; then requires a period
of time to cool down to allow the contacts to re-engage.
The next time it fails leave the battery switch on, remove the side panel,
take your voltmeter and look at the voltage on the bottom side of the
battery switch. It should read battery voltage/24V. Then measure the
voltage on the bus bar on the top side of the switches and see if you have
24V at that point. That will tell you whether your battery switch has
failed. Leave it on and see if voltage returns after it cools down.
Dennis Savarese
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deon Esterhuizen" <desterhuizen@hyphos360.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Deon Esterhuizen"
<desterhuizen@hyphos360.com>
>
> Thanks as always Dennis - So what I gather from your mail firstly is
> that it is impossible to start the plane with the toe lever if there is
> no power from the battery.
>
> The problem with removing the relay is that when I bypass the line
> coming from the battery to the relay 24V (I use a wire from the battery
> positive terminal down the bottom of the plane into the side panel and
> on the relay input)line the relay works with no problem - so it seem to
> be something that cuts out between the battery and the input on the
> relay mentioned.
>
> Deon.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: A. Dennis Savarese [mailto:adsavar@gte.net]
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List:
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
>
> Wow! This is surely a strange one. I guess what I'd do is pull the
> large
> relay unit inside the fiberglass relay box. It's the one on the left.
> It's
> not too difficult a job and I know you are competent enough to do it.
> Just
> be sure to mark all the leads you remove (and there is a bunch) with
> masking
> tape. But first, draw a replica/diagram and mark the wire connection
> points
> on the diagram. Then mark the tape on each lead accordingly.
>
> After you remove the large relay unit, you'll see a section on top which
> can
> be removed. There will probably be some red Loctite type material on
> the
> screws. Clean out the screw heads before you attempt to unscrew the
> screws.
> They're slotted and will definitely get "chewed up" if you don't clean
> the
> material from the head first. Now remove the cover. Inside you will
> see a
> set of contacts. Actually, I think there may be two sets of contacts.
> You
> should clean and burnish the contacts. I can't remember if there is an
> adjustment to set the gap between the contacts. I think there is, but I
> simply can't remember. If there is, you may want to close the gap very
> slightly after you clean and burnish the contacts. You can test the
> contacts opening and closing by using external leads connected to the
> battery. If they don't close immediately when 24V is applied, you
> should
> try adjusting the throw on the relay. Then reinstall it and see what
> happens. If you call George Coy at GESOCO in NH, he could probably give
> you
> even more insight.
>
> Your manual starting procedure is partially correct. You still must
> have
> the BATTERY and IGNITION switches on the right side in the UP position.
> The
> problem is no current from the battery to the "shower of sparks" when
> you
> press the START button. The only benefit of the toe-engaged air start
> valve
> lever is to bypass the air start solenoid (on the top section of the air
> start valve) that is normally engaged when you press the start button.
> If
> the solenoid fails AND you have battery voltage, when you engage the
> START
> button, you apply current to the "shower of sparks" or starting coil.
> By
> pressing the lever on the air start valve with your foot you open the
> air
> start valve manually thus bypassing the air start solenoid on the top of
> the
> air start valve.
>
> Hope this helps. Feel free to call me if you need to.
> Take care.
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Deon Esterhuizen" <desterhuizen@hyphos360.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List:
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Deon Esterhuizen"
> <desterhuizen@hyphos360.com>
> >
> > I have a very strange problem on my Yak-52. Intermittently when I flip
> > the master switch on and then any other switch such as the engine
> > instruments the power completely cuts out and every thing is dead -
> > sometimes when I switch the master on this happens as well. Not a peep
> > from the electrical system at all - as dead as a doornail - the over
> > voltage protection button did not pop out. Try to start the plane with
> > the toe lever but to no avail, everything is completely dead.
> >
> > I measured continuity between the positive lead of the battery
> > (disconnect it from the battery) and the 30amp busbar located in the
> > fiberglass relay box located on the right hand side of the firewall
> and
> > found that there was a very high resistance between the battery lead
> and
> > the busbar - it seems that there must be a current protection or
> > something between the battery and the busbar, although the electrical
> > schematic does not have an indication of such a device between the
> > battery and the busbar. After a while (hour or so) the power will be
> > back and be ok then for a couple of days (sometimes), week (making you
> > think you solved the problem) and then it happens again. Once the
> plane
> > runs the voltage and current seems to be fine - checking it on the
> > instrument panel voltage gauge.
> >
> > This is my procedure to start with the toe lever - is this correct???
> > 1) Prop and prime as normal
> > 2) Mags off as normal
> > 3) Push started button and hit the toe lever
> > 4) flip mags when engine starts - but the engine just swings, not any
> > sign of sparks on the plugs.
> >
> > I filled the air system twice and ran all the air down trying to start
> -
> > but nothing.
> >
> > Any suggestions
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> >
> > Deon
> > Yak-52
> > N192YK
> >
> >
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: M-14-PF Mags |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Don, I carry the Chinese starting coils in my stock. Give me a call at
509-826-4610
Always yakin,
Doug Sapp
----- Original Message -----
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: M-14-PF Mags
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
>
> Don,
> First check the model number of the mag you labeled M9-0. It more than
> likely is an M9-F. Assuming it is an M-9F, neither mag has a shower of
> sparks or starting coil built in. The starting coil enters the mag at the
> front top. You will still need an external starting coil for either type
> mag. The difference between the M9F and M9-35 is the -35's have a
> centrifugal advance and the M9-F does not. You do not time the -F's
> and -35's the same way. The 400HP M14 with M9-35's on the YAK 52TW uses
a
> Slick starting coil. Stew Cochran, YAK Parts Central or Gesoco Industries
> (George Coy) may have the stock YAK 52 starting coil, KP-4716. Go to my
web
> site, www.yak-52.com, and click on the LINKS page for their specific
contact
> information.
> Best regards,
> Dennis Savarese
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Boardman" <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: M-14-PF Mags
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Don Boardman <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > We are building a Murphy Moose and presently need to purchase the high
> > voltage starter (shower of sparks/induction coil) for our M9-0 mags on
our
> > M-14PF. At this time we are researching to see if swapping mags to
M9-35M
> > would be a better way to go. Anyone have any input on this? Better with
> the
> > sparks unit "built In" or simply just another way of accomplishing the
> same
> > thing. Are there going to be any reasons in reference to the future with
> > parts or maintenance with either of the mags. Any of your thoughts would
> be
> > appreciated. Thanks for your help.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Don Boardman
> > & Partner, Randy Bowers
> > Super Moose #130 M-14PF 400HP, MT-prop, Aerocet 3500 amphibs, Rome, NY
> >
> >
>
>
Message 12
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--> Yak-List message posted by: MFilucci@aol.com
In a message dated 1/13/03 7:42:21 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Ernest.Martinez@oracle.com writes:
> I'm concerned about the restricted areas over the port.
Last year I coordinated with ATC and the Cape folks via phone and gave them
ETAs, number of aircraft, etc. It will not be a problem as long as someone
who is competent and has situational awareness is leading the effort. The
passes can be flown just south of the restricted area on an east/west (or
west/east) heading with all maneuvering to the south without actually
penetrating the restricted area.
Mike Filucci
Message 13
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Deon Esterhuizen" <desterhuizen@hyphos360.com>
I did not know the master switch (Battery) was also a breaker switch -
what you say makes sense Dennis - will try it this afternoon.
Thanks
Deon.
-----Original Message-----
From: A. Dennis Savarese [mailto:adsavar@gte.net]
Subject: Re: Yak-List:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
I loaned my schematics to someone recently, so I'm trying to do this
without
the benefit of them. If we think about this logically, the only time
battery voltage is applied to the relay in question is when the battery
switch is on. Thus, applying battery voltage directly to the relay, you
are
bypassing the battery switch. I would then suspect a defective battery
switch, which BTW is also a breaker. Your symptom is acting just like a
weak circuit breaker. ie: it works, then opens up; then requires a
period
of time to cool down to allow the contacts to re-engage.
The next time it fails leave the battery switch on, remove the side
panel,
take your voltmeter and look at the voltage on the bottom side of the
battery switch. It should read battery voltage/24V. Then measure the
voltage on the bus bar on the top side of the switches and see if you
have
24V at that point. That will tell you whether your battery switch has
failed. Leave it on and see if voltage returns after it cools down.
Dennis Savarese
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deon Esterhuizen" <desterhuizen@hyphos360.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Deon Esterhuizen"
<desterhuizen@hyphos360.com>
>
> Thanks as always Dennis - So what I gather from your mail firstly is
> that it is impossible to start the plane with the toe lever if there
is
> no power from the battery.
>
> The problem with removing the relay is that when I bypass the line
> coming from the battery to the relay 24V (I use a wire from the
battery
> positive terminal down the bottom of the plane into the side panel and
> on the relay input)line the relay works with no problem - so it seem
to
> be something that cuts out between the battery and the input on the
> relay mentioned.
>
> Deon.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: A. Dennis Savarese [mailto:adsavar@gte.net]
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List:
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
>
> Wow! This is surely a strange one. I guess what I'd do is pull the
> large
> relay unit inside the fiberglass relay box. It's the one on the left.
> It's
> not too difficult a job and I know you are competent enough to do it.
> Just
> be sure to mark all the leads you remove (and there is a bunch) with
> masking
> tape. But first, draw a replica/diagram and mark the wire connection
> points
> on the diagram. Then mark the tape on each lead accordingly.
>
> After you remove the large relay unit, you'll see a section on top
which
> can
> be removed. There will probably be some red Loctite type material on
> the
> screws. Clean out the screw heads before you attempt to unscrew the
> screws.
> They're slotted and will definitely get "chewed up" if you don't clean
> the
> material from the head first. Now remove the cover. Inside you will
> see a
> set of contacts. Actually, I think there may be two sets of contacts.
> You
> should clean and burnish the contacts. I can't remember if there is
an
> adjustment to set the gap between the contacts. I think there is, but
I
> simply can't remember. If there is, you may want to close the gap
very
> slightly after you clean and burnish the contacts. You can test the
> contacts opening and closing by using external leads connected to the
> battery. If they don't close immediately when 24V is applied, you
> should
> try adjusting the throw on the relay. Then reinstall it and see what
> happens. If you call George Coy at GESOCO in NH, he could probably
give
> you
> even more insight.
>
> Your manual starting procedure is partially correct. You still must
> have
> the BATTERY and IGNITION switches on the right side in the UP
position.
> The
> problem is no current from the battery to the "shower of sparks" when
> you
> press the START button. The only benefit of the toe-engaged air start
> valve
> lever is to bypass the air start solenoid (on the top section of the
air
> start valve) that is normally engaged when you press the start button.
> If
> the solenoid fails AND you have battery voltage, when you engage the
> START
> button, you apply current to the "shower of sparks" or starting coil.
> By
> pressing the lever on the air start valve with your foot you open the
> air
> start valve manually thus bypassing the air start solenoid on the top
of
> the
> air start valve.
>
> Hope this helps. Feel free to call me if you need to.
> Take care.
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Deon Esterhuizen" <desterhuizen@hyphos360.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List:
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Deon Esterhuizen"
> <desterhuizen@hyphos360.com>
> >
> > I have a very strange problem on my Yak-52. Intermittently when I
flip
> > the master switch on and then any other switch such as the engine
> > instruments the power completely cuts out and every thing is dead -
> > sometimes when I switch the master on this happens as well. Not a
peep
> > from the electrical system at all - as dead as a doornail - the over
> > voltage protection button did not pop out. Try to start the plane
with
> > the toe lever but to no avail, everything is completely dead.
> >
> > I measured continuity between the positive lead of the battery
> > (disconnect it from the battery) and the 30amp busbar located in the
> > fiberglass relay box located on the right hand side of the firewall
> and
> > found that there was a very high resistance between the battery lead
> and
> > the busbar - it seems that there must be a current protection or
> > something between the battery and the busbar, although the
electrical
> > schematic does not have an indication of such a device between the
> > battery and the busbar. After a while (hour or so) the power will be
> > back and be ok then for a couple of days (sometimes), week (making
you
> > think you solved the problem) and then it happens again. Once the
> plane
> > runs the voltage and current seems to be fine - checking it on the
> > instrument panel voltage gauge.
> >
> > This is my procedure to start with the toe lever - is this
correct???
> > 1) Prop and prime as normal
> > 2) Mags off as normal
> > 3) Push started button and hit the toe lever
> > 4) flip mags when engine starts - but the engine just swings, not
any
> > sign of sparks on the plugs.
> >
> > I filled the air system twice and ran all the air down trying to
start
> -
> > but nothing.
> >
> > Any suggestions
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> >
> > Deon
> > Yak-52
> > N192YK
> >
> >
>
>
Message 14
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Michael Di Marco <mgdimarco@yahoo.com>
Remember, restricted areas are only a problem when they're active. Melbourne FSS
is the able to advise on status. As far as I know, the VAB is not in the TFR
list unless there is a launch. NASA may be helpful, but their may be a moritorium
on advance notice of launches. The launch TFR is huge and reaches westward
nearly to MCO and just a few miles from ISM.
Mike
China Blue
Ernest Martinez <Ernest.Martinez@oracle.com> wrote:--> Yak-List message posted
by: "Ernest Martinez"
I'm concerned about the restricted areas over the port. The barge canal is
southern boundry for the inner restricted area for the launch complex. Sea
Fest I beleive is held over in the North terminal which is North of the
canal. Also since 9/11 the outer restricted area which used to start at 3000
MSL now has been dropped to the ground, and is closed if there is a shuttle
on the pad. Flying into COI (Merritt Island) requires and act of congress to
fly into now when the TFR is hot. There is a launch scheduled for May 23rd
and the shuttle usually sits on the pad for about a month.
Ernie
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
MFilucci@aol.com
Subject: Yak-List: Sea Fest 2003
--> Yak-List message posted by: MFilucci@aol.com
In a message dated 1/10/03 5:37:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
cjpilot710@aol.com writes:
> I believe it around the West Palm area.
Sea Fest is on a site adjacent to the Cape Canaveral/Kennedy Space Center
launch center. I flew in an eleven-ship formation over the site last year (3
passes). It is a good opportunity to practice some mass formation work for a
crowd that really appreciates the sight of our airplanes overhead.
---------------------------------
Message 15
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez" <Ernest.Martinez@oracle.com>
Cool
Ernie
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
MFilucci@aol.com
Subject: Yak-List: Sea Fest 2003
--> Yak-List message posted by: MFilucci@aol.com
In a message dated 1/13/03 7:42:21 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Ernest.Martinez@oracle.com writes:
> I'm concerned about the restricted areas over the port.
Last year I coordinated with ATC and the Cape folks via phone and gave them
ETAs, number of aircraft, etc. It will not be a problem as long as someone
who is competent and has situational awareness is leading the effort. The
passes can be flown just south of the restricted area on an east/west (or
west/east) heading with all maneuvering to the south without actually
penetrating the restricted area.
Mike Filucci
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel transfer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Doug Thayer wrote:
> I would suggest figuring out whether the problem is balance, venting or
> flappers first. Level the airplane, take off fuel caps and start draining
> fuel. If it drains evenly it is not the flappers. If it doesn't, it is
> something in the flappers or fuel lines between the wing tank and
> consumption tanks.
I could almost agree but the effects of ram air into the wing root vent
cannot be realized when up on jacks in the hanger. This may be the "wild
card" that is causing some of the problems. I once read somewhere that this
vent should be cut at a long angle, facing into the relitive air flow, and
be bent forward approx 13 degrees. I have been looking at various CJ and
have discovered that some are in fact "belled out" on the tip to catch more
wind. One in fact had a larger tube slipped over the stock tube. The
larger tube was greatly expanded at the opening. Is it posible that X
amount of air pressure in flight is necessary for a constant and equal flow?
Or conversly is too much pressure causing the unequal flow?
Food for thought.
Always yakin,
Doug Sapp
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Sea Fest 2003 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
The restricted area is hot when there is a shuttle on the pad, since 9/11 a
TFR has been in place that litterally shuts down that entire area while
there is a shuttle on the pad. 2935 Used to be from 3000Ft to unlimited now
its down to the ground.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Di Marco" <mgdimarco@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Sea Fest 2003
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Michael Di Marco <mgdimarco@yahoo.com>
>
>
> Remember, restricted areas are only a problem when they're active.
Melbourne FSS is the able to advise on status. As far as I know, the VAB is
not in the TFR list unless there is a launch. NASA may be helpful, but
their may be a moritorium on advance notice of launches. The launch TFR is
huge and reaches westward nearly to MCO and just a few miles from ISM.
>
> Mike
> China Blue
>
>
> Ernest Martinez <Ernest.Martinez@oracle.com> wrote:--> Yak-List message
posted by: "Ernest Martinez"
>
> I'm concerned about the restricted areas over the port. The barge canal is
> southern boundry for the inner restricted area for the launch complex. Sea
> Fest I beleive is held over in the North terminal which is North of the
> canal. Also since 9/11 the outer restricted area which used to start at
3000
> MSL now has been dropped to the ground, and is closed if there is a
shuttle
> on the pad. Flying into COI (Merritt Island) requires and act of congress
to
> fly into now when the TFR is hot. There is a launch scheduled for May 23rd
> and the shuttle usually sits on the pad for about a month.
>
> Ernie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> MFilucci@aol.com
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Sea Fest 2003
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: MFilucci@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 1/10/03 5:37:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> cjpilot710@aol.com writes:
>
>
> > I believe it around the West Palm area.
>
> Sea Fest is on a site adjacent to the Cape Canaveral/Kennedy Space Center
> launch center. I flew in an eleven-ship formation over the site last year
(3
> passes). It is a good opportunity to practice some mass formation work for
a
> crowd that really appreciates the sight of our airplanes overhead.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel transfer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
I just checked my vent lines. It seems as if the vent line goes to the right
tank first, tee's off there at the top of the tank, then proceeds to the
left tank. If there was a vent prob, then it would be almost impossible for
the left tank to be vented better that the right tank, unless the
obstruction was at the tee itself into the right tank.
So I'm going to proceed with the assumption that I'm flying out of trim, I'm
going to jack up my plane and put a level across my cockpit rails, since I
have 2 balls in my front cockpit (AI and T&B) and they dont agree with each
other.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Fuel transfer
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>
>
> Doug Thayer wrote:
> > I would suggest figuring out whether the problem is balance, venting or
> > flappers first. Level the airplane, take off fuel caps and start
draining
> > fuel. If it drains evenly it is not the flappers. If it doesn't, it is
> > something in the flappers or fuel lines between the wing tank and
> > consumption tanks.
>
> I could almost agree but the effects of ram air into the wing root vent
> cannot be realized when up on jacks in the hanger. This may be the "wild
> card" that is causing some of the problems. I once read somewhere that
this
> vent should be cut at a long angle, facing into the relitive air flow, and
> be bent forward approx 13 degrees. I have been looking at various CJ and
> have discovered that some are in fact "belled out" on the tip to catch
more
> wind. One in fact had a larger tube slipped over the stock tube. The
> larger tube was greatly expanded at the opening. Is it posible that X
> amount of air pressure in flight is necessary for a constant and equal
flow?
> Or conversly is too much pressure causing the unequal flow?
>
> Food for thought.
>
> Always yakin,
> Doug Sapp
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel transfer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Doug wrote:
> I could almost agree but the effects of ram air into the wing root vent
> cannot be realized when up on jacks in the hanger. This may be the "wild
> card" that is causing some of the problems. I once read somewhere that this
> vent should be cut at a long angle, facing into the relitive air flow, and
> be bent forward approx 13 degrees. I have been looking at various CJ and
> have discovered that some are in fact "belled out" on the tip to catch more
> wind. One in fact had a larger tube slipped over the stock tube. The
> larger tube was greatly expanded at the opening. Is it posible that X
> amount of air pressure in flight is necessary for a constant and equal flow?
> Or conversly is too much pressure causing the unequal flow?
Angle can make a difference but the size of the opening does not, at least it
does not change the pressure in the tank. Since the flow of air into the tanks
is very low, the same as the fuel flow going out, the size of the vent opening
is not that critical (unless the vent becomes very, very small). Since the vent
is plumbed to both tanks, the fuel in both tanks should have the same
overpressure aiding in feeding fuel.
Where I get concerned is when I hear people talking about vented caps and
separate vents for the two tanks. In the case of vented caps the slight
differences in wings could cause the pressure in the two tanks to be different.
Worse still would be for the vent to be in an area of low pressure causing the
vent to inhibit fuel flow. When the vent is sucking instead of blowing you can
imagine the fuel feed might be different.
With two vents you also face the problem of different pressure in the tanks
causing assymetric fuel flow. No matter how hard you try you are never going to
get both vents to provide the exact same pressure under all flight regimes.
Different pressures will yield different fuel flows from the tanks. If you
don't believe me, put a hole in the bottom of a cup with a cap, put a straw
through the cap, fill the cup, and then blow into the straw creating different
pressures. You will get more flow when you blow harder and no flow if you apply
just a little suction. The same applies to your fuel tanks.
So if you want to ensure that your venting does not affect the flow from both
tanks you need to have a single point vent and feed that exact same pressure to
both tanks. Well gee golly, that is exactly what the Chinese did in the stock
CJ6A!
Now, how could the vent cause problems? Perhaps looking at the Cessna venting
problem is worth considering. Cessna has a very similar single point vent
feeding both tanks and they *have* had problems. Turns out that the problem
with the Cessna vent system is fuel filling the vent line between the two tanks
and starting a siphon. Once fuel gets into the vent line between the two tanks
the pressure is no longer equal. Is this what is happening? I have no idea but
I think it is possible.
One way to eliminate fuel in the vent line would be to use a single point vent
that runs to a high point in the airframe, probably in the fuselage. From there
run the vent lines down hill to the vent ports in the tank, never letting the
vent lines slope downhill from the vent ports in the tank. (Funny, this sounds
an awful lot like the stock vent system with the exception of the vent line
splitting in the fuse instead of at one of the fuel tanks.) Can this be done
with the position of the tank in the outer wing section? Again, I don't know.
The tank does sit pretty low and it might be possible. OTOH, if you are careful
to ensure that your vent port is at the highest pressure point on the airframe,
there may be sufficient pressure to push any fuel in the vent line back into the
tank thus blowing the vent line clear of any fuel and ensuring that the vent has
only air/vapor and no liquid in it.
So, given this analysis, I will not be using vented caps or separate tank vents
in any CJ6A I own that still feeds fuel from both tanks simultaneously.
Now for a comment on the one situation where a vented cap is good. If the
vented cap has a valve on the vent that allows air to flow into the tank without
allowing it to flow out you have a way to get fuel out of a tank that has a
plugged vent line. Still, if the pressure inside the wing is negative, even the
vented cap might not help you get fuel out of the tank.
So I keep coming back to a well-maintained single-point vent system as being the
best way to ensure that fuel flows evenly from both tanks.
You know what would solve all these problems tho? Put in a fuel selector valve
that lets you select left or right tank and then do away with the flapper
valves. Now you can have dual vents without any problems. OK, you have to
switch tanks but I have been doing that for years on different airplanes,
including Cessnas with a L/R/Both selector. The only problem with that is if
the fuel selector valve fails. (See, there ain't no such thing as a free lunch.)
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel transfer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
I agree with everything you said, I swapped caps just to see if one cap was
in fact venting at all, didnt fix the prob.
And since my vent goes into the right tank first and the left tank is the
one draining faster, then I dont think the vent is the problem, (again vent
obstruction before the right tank would cause even pressure to both tanks,
obstruction between tanks would cause right tank to drain easier)
I put a level across my cockpit rails (athwartship for you sailors out
there) and the bubble was right on the money, and so was the ball on my turn
and bank, so that eliminates that.
So whats left is my rudder trim, since my left tank is draining first, I
bent the tab to add some more left rudder or I bent it towards starboard.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Fuel transfer
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
> Doug wrote:
> > I could almost agree but the effects of ram air into the wing root vent
> > cannot be realized when up on jacks in the hanger. This may be the
"wild
> > card" that is causing some of the problems. I once read somewhere that
this
> > vent should be cut at a long angle, facing into the relitive air flow,
and
> > be bent forward approx 13 degrees. I have been looking at various CJ
and
> > have discovered that some are in fact "belled out" on the tip to catch
more
> > wind. One in fact had a larger tube slipped over the stock tube. The
> > larger tube was greatly expanded at the opening. Is it posible that X
> > amount of air pressure in flight is necessary for a constant and equal
flow?
> > Or conversly is too much pressure causing the unequal flow?
>
> Angle can make a difference but the size of the opening does not, at least
it
> does not change the pressure in the tank. Since the flow of air into the
tanks
> is very low, the same as the fuel flow going out, the size of the vent
opening
> is not that critical (unless the vent becomes very, very small). Since
the vent
> is plumbed to both tanks, the fuel in both tanks should have the same
> overpressure aiding in feeding fuel.
>
> Where I get concerned is when I hear people talking about vented caps and
> separate vents for the two tanks. In the case of vented caps the slight
> differences in wings could cause the pressure in the two tanks to be
different.
> Worse still would be for the vent to be in an area of low pressure
causing the
> vent to inhibit fuel flow. When the vent is sucking instead of blowing
you can
> imagine the fuel feed might be different.
>
> With two vents you also face the problem of different pressure in the
tanks
> causing assymetric fuel flow. No matter how hard you try you are never
going to
> get both vents to provide the exact same pressure under all flight
regimes.
> Different pressures will yield different fuel flows from the tanks. If
you
> don't believe me, put a hole in the bottom of a cup with a cap, put a
straw
> through the cap, fill the cup, and then blow into the straw creating
different
> pressures. You will get more flow when you blow harder and no flow if you
apply
> just a little suction. The same applies to your fuel tanks.
>
> So if you want to ensure that your venting does not affect the flow from
both
> tanks you need to have a single point vent and feed that exact same
pressure to
> both tanks. Well gee golly, that is exactly what the Chinese did in the
stock CJ6A!
>
> Now, how could the vent cause problems? Perhaps looking at the Cessna
venting
> problem is worth considering. Cessna has a very similar single point vent
> feeding both tanks and they *have* had problems. Turns out that the
problem
> with the Cessna vent system is fuel filling the vent line between the two
tanks
> and starting a siphon. Once fuel gets into the vent line between the two
tanks
> the pressure is no longer equal. Is this what is happening? I have no
idea but
> I think it is possible.
>
> One way to eliminate fuel in the vent line would be to use a single point
vent
> that runs to a high point in the airframe, probably in the fuselage. From
there
> run the vent lines down hill to the vent ports in the tank, never letting
the
> vent lines slope downhill from the vent ports in the tank. (Funny, this
sounds
> an awful lot like the stock vent system with the exception of the vent
line
> splitting in the fuse instead of at one of the fuel tanks.) Can this be
done
> with the position of the tank in the outer wing section? Again, I don't
know.
> The tank does sit pretty low and it might be possible. OTOH, if you are
careful
> to ensure that your vent port is at the highest pressure point on the
airframe,
> there may be sufficient pressure to push any fuel in the vent line back
into the
> tank thus blowing the vent line clear of any fuel and ensuring that the
vent has
> only air/vapor and no liquid in it.
>
> So, given this analysis, I will not be using vented caps or separate tank
vents
> in any CJ6A I own that still feeds fuel from both tanks simultaneously.
>
> Now for a comment on the one situation where a vented cap is good. If the
> vented cap has a valve on the vent that allows air to flow into the tank
without
> allowing it to flow out you have a way to get fuel out of a tank that has
a
> plugged vent line. Still, if the pressure inside the wing is negative,
even the
> vented cap might not help you get fuel out of the tank.
>
> So I keep coming back to a well-maintained single-point vent system as
being the
> best way to ensure that fuel flows evenly from both tanks.
>
> You know what would solve all these problems tho? Put in a fuel selector
valve
> that lets you select left or right tank and then do away with the flapper
> valves. Now you can have dual vents without any problems. OK, you have
to
> switch tanks but I have been doing that for years on different airplanes,
> including Cessnas with a L/R/Both selector. The only problem with that is
if
> the fuel selector valve fails. (See, there ain't no such thing as a free
lunch.)
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel transfer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Craig Payne <cpayne@mc.net>
Brian,
Quite a learned treatise on venting. Now let's talk real world. A *whole
bunch* of AZ guys use the Cessna vent valve in their caps with many,
many hours of no ill effects. One mud wasp could ruin your whole day in
the standard system. It's that single point of failure thing again.
Joe Howse takes the prize on vent systems; his install runs out to the
rear of each wingtip. Arguably could be overkill...but in my experience,
it's still the trim.
Craig Payne
Brian Lloyd wrote:
> Angle can make a difference but the size of the opening does not, at least it
> does not change the pressure in the tank. Since the flow of air into the tanks
> is very low, the same as the fuel flow going out, the size of the vent opening
> is not that critical (unless the vent becomes very, very small). Since the vent
> is plumbed to both tanks, the fuel in both tanks should have the same
> overpressure aiding in feeding fuel.
>
> Where I get concerned is when I hear people talking about vented caps and
> separate vents for the two tanks. In the case of vented caps the slight
> differences in wings could cause the pressure in the two tanks to be different.
> Worse still would be for the vent to be in an area of low pressure causing
the
> vent to inhibit fuel flow. When the vent is sucking instead of blowing you can
> imagine the fuel feed might be different.
>
> With two vents you also face the problem of different pressure in the tanks
> causing assymetric fuel flow. No matter how hard you try you are never going
to
> get both vents to provide the exact same pressure under all flight regimes.
> Different pressures will yield different fuel flows from the tanks. If you
> don't believe me, put a hole in the bottom of a cup with a cap, put a straw
> through the cap, fill the cup, and then blow into the straw creating different
> pressures. You will get more flow when you blow harder and no flow if you apply
> just a little suction. The same applies to your fuel tanks.
>
> So if you want to ensure that your venting does not affect the flow from both
> tanks you need to have a single point vent and feed that exact same pressure
to
> both tanks. Well gee golly, that is exactly what the Chinese did in the stock
CJ6A!
>
> Now, how could the vent cause problems? Perhaps looking at the Cessna venting
> problem is worth considering. Cessna has a very similar single point vent
> feeding both tanks and they *have* had problems. Turns out that the problem
> with the Cessna vent system is fuel filling the vent line between the two tanks
> and starting a siphon. Once fuel gets into the vent line between the two tanks
> the pressure is no longer equal. Is this what is happening? I have no idea
but
> I think it is possible.
>
> One way to eliminate fuel in the vent line would be to use a single point vent
> that runs to a high point in the airframe, probably in the fuselage. From there
> run the vent lines down hill to the vent ports in the tank, never letting the
> vent lines slope downhill from the vent ports in the tank. (Funny, this sounds
> an awful lot like the stock vent system with the exception of the vent line
> splitting in the fuse instead of at one of the fuel tanks.) Can this be done
> with the position of the tank in the outer wing section? Again, I don't know.
> The tank does sit pretty low and it might be possible. OTOH, if you are careful
> to ensure that your vent port is at the highest pressure point on the airframe,
> there may be sufficient pressure to push any fuel in the vent line back into
the
> tank thus blowing the vent line clear of any fuel and ensuring that the vent
has
> only air/vapor and no liquid in it.
>
> So, given this analysis, I will not be using vented caps or separate tank vents
> in any CJ6A I own that still feeds fuel from both tanks simultaneously.
>
> Now for a comment on the one situation where a vented cap is good. If the
> vented cap has a valve on the vent that allows air to flow into the tank without
> allowing it to flow out you have a way to get fuel out of a tank that has a
> plugged vent line. Still, if the pressure inside the wing is negative, even
the
> vented cap might not help you get fuel out of the tank.
>
> So I keep coming back to a well-maintained single-point vent system as being
the
> best way to ensure that fuel flows evenly from both tanks.
>
> You know what would solve all these problems tho? Put in a fuel selector valve
> that lets you select left or right tank and then do away with the flapper
> valves. Now you can have dual vents without any problems. OK, you have to
> switch tanks but I have been doing that for years on different airplanes,
> including Cessnas with a L/R/Both selector. The only problem with that is if
> the fuel selector valve fails. (See, there ain't no such thing as a free lunch.)
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite =====================================================================
Message 22
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| Subject: | Russian Aircraft resource |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Yakjock" <Yakjock@msn.com>
I just met a man over the net that I think may be a wonderful resource on Russian
designers and airplanes. His name is Roy Cochrun and his internet site is
http://www.royfc.com/
Check it out!
Hal Morley
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel transfer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Craig Payne wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Craig Payne <cpayne@mc.net>
>
> Brian,
>
> Quite a learned treatise on venting. Now let's talk real world. A *whole
> bunch* of AZ guys use the Cessna vent valve in their caps with many,
> many hours of no ill effects. One mud wasp could ruin your whole day in
> the standard system. It's that single point of failure thing again.
That is why I added that a vented cap might be good *IF* it is a one-way valve
as it allows air into but not out of the tank. Since the main vent pressurizes
the tank, the one-way valve in the vented cap stays closed until the vent line
plugs. This is no guarantee that fuel will flow but it stands a much better
chance than if there is no vent at all.
> Joe Howse takes the prize on vent systems; his install runs out to the
> rear of each wingtip. Arguably could be overkill...but in my experience,
> it's still the trim.
Are you talking separate vents for the tanks? This would be a bad thing.
Having two vents might be OK if they are connected so as to supply a single vent
pressure to both tanks. Venting to the wingtip doesn't make a lots of sense to
me since that is not likely to be the highest pressure area on the airframe.
And, yes, I agree with you 100% that, in almost all cases, trim is the culprit.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel transfer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Jim Ivey <jim@jimivey.com>
I've been using a Cessna-type check valve vent cap on my CJ for years
with no problems. Came that way when I got it from previous US owner
and fuel feeds evenly. As Boeing test pilot Tex Johnston used to say,
"One good test is worth a thousand expert opinions".
Jim Ivey
Craig Payne wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: Craig Payne <cpayne@mc.net>
>
>Brian,
>
>Quite a learned treatise on venting. Now let's talk real world. A *whole
>bunch* of AZ guys use the Cessna vent valve in their caps with many,
>many hours of no ill effects. One mud wasp could ruin your whole day in
>the standard system. It's that single point of failure thing again.
>
>Joe Howse takes the prize on vent systems; his install runs out to the
>rear of each wingtip. Arguably could be overkill...but in my experience,
>it's still the trim.
>
>Craig Payne
>
>Brian Lloyd wrote:
>
>>Angle can make a difference but the size of the opening does not, at least it
>>does not change the pressure in the tank. Since the flow of air into the tanks
>>is very low, the same as the fuel flow going out, the size of the vent opening
>>is not that critical (unless the vent becomes very, very small). Since the vent
>>is plumbed to both tanks, the fuel in both tanks should have the same
>>overpressure aiding in feeding fuel.
>>
>>Where I get concerned is when I hear people talking about vented caps and
>>separate vents for the two tanks. In the case of vented caps the slight
>>differences in wings could cause the pressure in the two tanks to be different.
>> Worse still would be for the vent to be in an area of low pressure causing
the
>>vent to inhibit fuel flow. When the vent is sucking instead of blowing you can
>>imagine the fuel feed might be different.
>>
>>With two vents you also face the problem of different pressure in the tanks
>>causing assymetric fuel flow. No matter how hard you try you are never going
to
>>get both vents to provide the exact same pressure under all flight regimes.
>>Different pressures will yield different fuel flows from the tanks. If you
>>don't believe me, put a hole in the bottom of a cup with a cap, put a straw
>>through the cap, fill the cup, and then blow into the straw creating different
>>pressures. You will get more flow when you blow harder and no flow if you apply
>>just a little suction. The same applies to your fuel tanks.
>>
>>So if you want to ensure that your venting does not affect the flow from both
>>tanks you need to have a single point vent and feed that exact same pressure
to
>>both tanks. Well gee golly, that is exactly what the Chinese did in the stock
CJ6A!
>>
>>Now, how could the vent cause problems? Perhaps looking at the Cessna venting
>>problem is worth considering. Cessna has a very similar single point vent
>>feeding both tanks and they *have* had problems. Turns out that the problem
>>with the Cessna vent system is fuel filling the vent line between the two tanks
>>and starting a siphon. Once fuel gets into the vent line between the two tanks
>>the pressure is no longer equal. Is this what is happening? I have no idea
but
>>I think it is possible.
>>
>>One way to eliminate fuel in the vent line would be to use a single point vent
>>that runs to a high point in the airframe, probably in the fuselage. From there
>>run the vent lines down hill to the vent ports in the tank, never letting the
>>vent lines slope downhill from the vent ports in the tank. (Funny, this sounds
>>an awful lot like the stock vent system with the exception of the vent line
>>splitting in the fuse instead of at one of the fuel tanks.) Can this be done
>>with the position of the tank in the outer wing section? Again, I don't know.
>>The tank does sit pretty low and it might be possible. OTOH, if you are careful
>>to ensure that your vent port is at the highest pressure point on the airframe,
>>there may be sufficient pressure to push any fuel in the vent line back into
the
>>tank thus blowing the vent line clear of any fuel and ensuring that the vent
has
>>only air/vapor and no liquid in it.
>>
>>So, given this analysis, I will not be using vented caps or separate tank vents
>>in any CJ6A I own that still feeds fuel from both tanks simultaneously.
>>
>>Now for a comment on the one situation where a vented cap is good. If the
>>vented cap has a valve on the vent that allows air to flow into the tank without
>>allowing it to flow out you have a way to get fuel out of a tank that has a
>>plugged vent line. Still, if the pressure inside the wing is negative, even
the
>>vented cap might not help you get fuel out of the tank.
>>
>>So I keep coming back to a well-maintained single-point vent system as being
the
>>best way to ensure that fuel flows evenly from both tanks.
>>
>>You know what would solve all these problems tho? Put in a fuel selector valve
>>that lets you select left or right tank and then do away with the flapper
>>valves. Now you can have dual vents without any problems. OK, you have to
>>switch tanks but I have been doing that for years on different airplanes,
>>including Cessnas with a L/R/Both selector. The only problem with that is if
>>the fuel selector valve fails. (See, there ain't no such thing as a free lunch.)
>>
>>--
>>Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite =====================================================================
>>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Uneven fuel burn |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Lou Dakos" <lou_dakos@bordermail.com.au>
I have just started to run my cj6a after restoration and it is feeding from the
left tank only it hasn't been flown and it is sitting level so that elimates
trim I have not removed flappers yet (do they come out without removing tank?)
but when I bolted wings on I noticed the vent pipes were not pointing to each other
at the wing attachment point and I didn't want to try and bend the pipes
so the joining hoses are a lot longer and they hang very low I don't think this
will help venting.
Look at the photo of wing that Andrew Zheng posted on photo photoshare and you
will see yellow vent pipes faceing towards leading edge of wing that is the same
as my machine.
Lou
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel transfer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Jim Ivey wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Jim Ivey <jim@jimivey.com>
>
> I've been using a Cessna-type check valve vent cap on my CJ for years
> with no problems. Came that way when I got it from previous US owner
> and fuel feeds evenly. As Boeing test pilot Tex Johnston used to say,
> "One good test is worth a thousand expert opinions".
I think both you and Craig misunderstood (unintentionally or otherwise) what I
was saying about vented caps. I do not consider a cap with a one-way valve that
will open if the pressure in the tank drops below ambient to be a vented cap.
The cap remains sealed unless the vent system fails to pressurize the tank
therefore, during normal operation the vent system is the sole source of vent
pressure. Under normal operation the cap is sealed and the fuel system operates
as it was designed.
When I talk about vented caps I am talking about caps that vent the tank to
ambient pressure full-time. I have heard of people drilling holes in their fuel
caps in an attempt to even out fuel flow and this is likely to cause problems.
Now go back and read my original posting and see I said that there too.
And as for tests: it may work 99 times out of 100 but that one test might be the
one that kills you. It is important to *understand* too.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel transfer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Can someone explain to me this Cessna valve mod for the CJ cap??
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Ivey" <jim@jimivey.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Fuel transfer
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Jim Ivey <jim@jimivey.com>
>
> I've been using a Cessna-type check valve vent cap on my CJ for years
> with no problems. Came that way when I got it from previous US owner
> and fuel feeds evenly. As Boeing test pilot Tex Johnston used to say,
> "One good test is worth a thousand expert opinions".
>
> Jim Ivey
>
> Craig Payne wrote:
>
> >--> Yak-List message posted by: Craig Payne <cpayne@mc.net>
> >
> >Brian,
> >
> >Quite a learned treatise on venting. Now let's talk real world. A *whole
> >bunch* of AZ guys use the Cessna vent valve in their caps with many,
> >many hours of no ill effects. One mud wasp could ruin your whole day in
> >the standard system. It's that single point of failure thing again.
> >
> >Joe Howse takes the prize on vent systems; his install runs out to the
> >rear of each wingtip. Arguably could be overkill...but in my experience,
> >it's still the trim.
> >
> >Craig Payne
> >
> >Brian Lloyd wrote:
> >
> >>Angle can make a difference but the size of the opening does not, at
least it
> >>does not change the pressure in the tank. Since the flow of air into
the tanks
> >>is very low, the same as the fuel flow going out, the size of the vent
opening
> >>is not that critical (unless the vent becomes very, very small). Since
the vent
> >>is plumbed to both tanks, the fuel in both tanks should have the same
> >>overpressure aiding in feeding fuel.
> >>
> >>Where I get concerned is when I hear people talking about vented caps
and
> >>separate vents for the two tanks. In the case of vented caps the slight
> >>differences in wings could cause the pressure in the two tanks to be
different.
> >> Worse still would be for the vent to be in an area of low pressure
causing the
> >>vent to inhibit fuel flow. When the vent is sucking instead of blowing
you can
> >>imagine the fuel feed might be different.
> >>
> >>With two vents you also face the problem of different pressure in the
tanks
> >>causing assymetric fuel flow. No matter how hard you try you are never
going to
> >>get both vents to provide the exact same pressure under all flight
regimes.
> >>Different pressures will yield different fuel flows from the tanks. If
you
> >>don't believe me, put a hole in the bottom of a cup with a cap, put a
straw
> >>through the cap, fill the cup, and then blow into the straw creating
different
> >>pressures. You will get more flow when you blow harder and no flow if
you apply
> >>just a little suction. The same applies to your fuel tanks.
> >>
> >>So if you want to ensure that your venting does not affect the flow from
both
> >>tanks you need to have a single point vent and feed that exact same
pressure to
> >>both tanks. Well gee golly, that is exactly what the Chinese did in the
stock CJ6A!
> >>
> >>Now, how could the vent cause problems? Perhaps looking at the Cessna
venting
> >>problem is worth considering. Cessna has a very similar single point
vent
> >>feeding both tanks and they *have* had problems. Turns out that the
problem
> >>with the Cessna vent system is fuel filling the vent line between the
two tanks
> >>and starting a siphon. Once fuel gets into the vent line between the
two tanks
> >>the pressure is no longer equal. Is this what is happening? I have no
idea but
> >>I think it is possible.
> >>
> >>One way to eliminate fuel in the vent line would be to use a single
point vent
> >>that runs to a high point in the airframe, probably in the fuselage.
From there
> >>run the vent lines down hill to the vent ports in the tank, never
letting the
> >>vent lines slope downhill from the vent ports in the tank. (Funny, this
sounds
> >>an awful lot like the stock vent system with the exception of the vent
line
> >>splitting in the fuse instead of at one of the fuel tanks.) Can this be
done
> >>with the position of the tank in the outer wing section? Again, I don't
know.
> >>The tank does sit pretty low and it might be possible. OTOH, if you are
careful
> >>to ensure that your vent port is at the highest pressure point on the
airframe,
> >>there may be sufficient pressure to push any fuel in the vent line back
into the
> >>tank thus blowing the vent line clear of any fuel and ensuring that the
vent has
> >>only air/vapor and no liquid in it.
> >>
> >>So, given this analysis, I will not be using vented caps or separate
tank vents
> >>in any CJ6A I own that still feeds fuel from both tanks simultaneously.
> >>
> >>Now for a comment on the one situation where a vented cap is good. If
the
> >>vented cap has a valve on the vent that allows air to flow into the tank
without
> >>allowing it to flow out you have a way to get fuel out of a tank that
has a
> >>plugged vent line. Still, if the pressure inside the wing is negative,
even the
> >>vented cap might not help you get fuel out of the tank.
> >>
> >>So I keep coming back to a well-maintained single-point vent system as
being the
> >>best way to ensure that fuel flows evenly from both tanks.
> >>
> >>You know what would solve all these problems tho? Put in a fuel
selector valve
> >>that lets you select left or right tank and then do away with the
flapper
> >>valves. Now you can have dual vents without any problems. OK, you have
to
> >>switch tanks but I have been doing that for years on different
airplanes,
> >>including Cessnas with a L/R/Both selector. The only problem with that
is if
> >>the fuel selector valve fails. (See, there ain't no such thing as a
free lunch.)
> >>
> >>--
> >>Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite
=====================================================================
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel transfer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roy O. Wright" <roy@wright.org>
My Cherokee's fuel caps have a flapper valve which is a small hole in
the top with a piece of plastic riveted with a single rivet so the plastic
is normally flush with the bottom of the hole. Note, this is in addition
to individual tank vents.
Have fun,
Roy
At 07:58 PM 1/13/2003 -0500, Ernie wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
>
>Can someone explain to me this Cessna valve mod for the CJ cap??
>
>Ernie
',,'',,'',,',,'
Roy Wright 512.378.1234 mailto:royw@cisco.com
Cisco Systems import com.cisco.std-disclaimer
Message 29
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tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,
SUBJECT_IS_LIST,USER_AGENT_OE,USER_IN_WHITELIST
version=2.43
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <lannon@look.ca>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deon Esterhuizen" <desterhuizen@hyphos360.com>
Subject: Yak-List:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Deon Esterhuizen"
<desterhuizen@hyphos360.com>
>
> I have a very strange problem on my Yak-52. Intermittently when I flip
> the master switch on and then any other switch such as the engine
> instruments the power completely cuts out and every thing is dead -
> sometimes when I switch the master on this happens as well. Not a peep
> from the electrical system at all - as dead as a doornail - the over
> voltage protection button did not pop out. Try to start the plane with
> the toe lever but to no avail, everything is completely dead.
>
> I measured continuity between the positive lead of the battery
> (disconnect it from the battery) and the 30amp busbar located in the
> fiberglass relay box located on the right hand side of the firewall and
> found that there was a very high resistance between the battery lead and
> the busbar - it seems that there must be a current protection or
> something between the battery and the busbar, although the electrical
> schematic does not have an indication of such a device between the
> battery and the busbar.
Deon;
A continuity test between the battery + lead and the 30 amp bus as described
above should show no continuity since the battery relay is not energized and
the relay contacts are open. However, if the battery master switch is on,
there will be continuity through the relay coil and the meter will read the
coil resistance. Power for the relay coil is usually taken from the battery
cable (where it connects to the relay CONTACTOR terminal), directly to the
battery master switch and from there back to the relay COIL terminal. This
is a small wire, probably #20.
I would suspect a problem in that circuit, a loose or corroded connection,
broken wire or a faulty master switch. I have no specific knowledge of the
Yak 52 but this area is basic to any aircraft. It is possible that the
switch is a breaker type though that is not generally the case. If so the
breaker mechanism could be faulty.
Walt
>
>
Message 30
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
As yawl know I had a mag problem on the way home Saturday. I was able to get
some important business done very quickly and decided to look into what cause
the mag to go dead.
I took off the top cover which exposes the rotor and found that I could
rotate the rotor around and around and around and around.
I removed the mag and I opened the cap over the coil and a nut with it's lock
washer fell out.
Turns out that a key on the rotor's shaft where a fiber gear is keyed was
missing. There were no signs of it anywhere. All the gears were in good
shape and I could find no metal nor debris.
The local IA seem to think that the key may have never been there. Because
of the way the lock washer uses the fiber gear and the nut is dogged down on
the shaft's threads, it may have been enough to keep the gear tight to the
shaft for some 270 hours of operation. These are Chinese mags that were
overhauled when I got the airplane 9 years ago with the HS6 engine.
I went to the local Aircraft Component Emporium, and found a key that with
minor filing fit the key. I had to reindex the mag and of course retime it.
Tomorrow morning I'll test run the engine.
I'm having a set of regular M14 mags overhauled by Carl Hays which will be
put back on the engine.
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710@aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-503-9820cell
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel transfer |
tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,
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version=2.43
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <lannon@look.ca>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Fuel transfer
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
>
> I agree with everything you said, I swapped caps just to see if one cap
was
> in fact venting at all, didnt fix the prob.
> And since my vent goes into the right tank first and the left tank is the
> one draining faster, then I dont think the vent is the problem, (again
vent
> obstruction before the right tank would cause even pressure to both tanks,
> obstruction between tanks would cause right tank to drain easier)
Ernie;
I presume you are describing the CJ6 vent system. If it is the 52 I
apologize in advance since I know nothing about it.
The vent system is "T"eed to both LH & RH tanks immediately after the vent
inlet in the LH wing root.
The "T" at the RH tank connects the header tank to the vent system.
You note that the left tank is feeding first. I refer to this as a RH fuel
feed problem. If it is a vent problem, this indicates a problem in the RH
vent system. The same would also apply to a sticking flapper valve.
Cheers;
Walt
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Uneven fuel burn |
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version=2.43
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <lannon@look.ca>
G'Day Lou;
It is possible to remove and install the flapper valves without removing the
header tank BUT I would not recommend it. Break the valves loose with the
tank installed but don't turn more than a $%
& hair. Remove the tank and
position so the valve is at the bottom. Turn it out but don't force it if it
stops, give the tank a shake, rattle & roll and try again. Once out you will
see why.
The vent pipes from the wings should line up with the corresponding ones in
the center section. Unless they are seriously damaged you should be able to
massage them enough to line up. The connecting hoses should go on with
minimal deflection.
Cheers;
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lou Dakos" <lou_dakos@bordermail.com.au>
Subject: Yak-List: Uneven fuel burn
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Lou Dakos" <lou_dakos@bordermail.com.au>
>
> I have just started to run my cj6a after restoration and it is feeding
from the left tank only it hasn't been flown and it is sitting level so
that elimates trim I have not removed flappers yet (do they come out without
removing tank?)
> but when I bolted wings on I noticed the vent pipes were not pointing to
each other at the wing attachment point and I didn't want to try and bend
the pipes so the joining hoses are a lot longer and they hang very low I
don't think this will help venting.
> Look at the photo of wing that Andrew Zheng posted on photo photoshare and
you will see yellow vent pipes faceing towards leading edge of wing that is
the same as my machine.
>
> Lou
>
>
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