Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:46 AM - Re: Trim (Brian Lloyd)
2. 05:38 AM - Trim & Rigging (cpayne@mc.net)
3. 05:53 AM - Re: Trim & Rigging (Ernie)
4. 05:54 AM - Main Gear Oleos (Ernie)
5. 06:55 AM - Re: Trim & Rigging (Brian Lloyd)
6. 06:58 AM - Re: Trim & Rigging (Brian Lloyd)
7. 07:15 AM - Re: Trim & Rigging (Ernie)
8. 07:45 AM - Adding rudder and aileron trim (Was: Trim & Rigging) (Brian Lloyd)
9. 08:03 AM - Re: Trim & Rigging (A. Dennis Savarese)
10. 08:10 AM - test message (A. Dennis Savarese)
11. 08:35 AM - New books for homebuilders (sonja.englert@juno.com)
12. 08:46 AM - Trim & Trash Talk (cpayne@mc.net)
13. 08:49 AM - Re: Trim & Rigging (Ernie)
14. 09:35 AM - Re: Trim & Trash Talk (A. Dennis Savarese)
15. 09:37 AM - Re: Trim & Rigging (A. Dennis Savarese)
16. 10:22 AM - Re: Warbirds alive and well in SoCal (Jim Ivey)
17. 11:35 AM - More Trash (cpayne@mc.net)
18. 11:55 AM - Re: More Trash (A. Dennis Savarese)
19. 02:45 PM - Ballast (Lou Dakos)
20. 05:22 PM - Designation (Barry Hancock)
21. 05:35 PM - Re: Designation (A. Dennis Savarese)
22. 05:46 PM - Re: Ballast (cjpilot710@aol.com)
23. 05:46 PM - Re: Ballast (cjpilot710@aol.com)
24. 05:55 PM - Re: Main Gear Oleos (cjpilot710@aol.com)
25. 06:07 PM - Re: Ballast (Brian Lloyd)
26. 06:30 PM - That's what happens... (Barry Hancock)
27. 06:39 PM - test (Ernie)
28. 06:39 PM - Re: Designation (Ernie)
29. 06:39 PM - Re: Designation (Ernie)
30. 06:39 PM - Re: Ballast (Ernie)
31. 06:39 PM - Re: Ballast (Ernie)
32. 07:00 PM - ballast (Lou Dakos)
33. 07:41 PM - Re: That's what happens... (Craig Payne)
34. 07:42 PM - Re: Main Gear Oleos (Craig Payne)
35. 07:46 PM - Re: YPA website (Drew Blahnick)
36. 07:46 PM - Re: Designation (Craig Payne)
37. 08:54 PM - Re: ballast (Doug)
38. 09:52 PM - Re: test (Jim Selby)
Message 1
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Craig Payne wrote:
> I've trimmed mine for high cruise; lot's of folks don't realize how much
> trim affects performance.
Actually lots of folks don't realize how much *rigging* affects performance.
The idea is to be in trim with all three trim tabs neutral (no control
deflection) at your desired cruise. Any deflection of a trim tab results in a
deflection of the corresponding control surface which results in more drag.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 2
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@mc.net
Brian,
It would be great to have 3-axis trim on the CJ, NOT because of high control pressures
but rather because of LIGHT control pressures which
we adjust for out-of-trim conditions without thinking about it because
it's not a real problem. The result in cruise cost fuel and speed.
In formation I LIKE to hold back pressure on the stick to dampen any
over responses and turbulence.
Wasn't 3-axis trim something you were doing with the Project?
Homebuilders use MAC servos to good effect, coupled to a "coolie hat"
switch on the stick.
Craig Payne
Craig Payne wrote:
> I've trimmed mine for high cruise; lot's of folks don't realize how much
> trim affects performance.
Actually lots of folks don't realize how much *rigging* affects performance.
The idea is to be in trim with all three trim tabs neutral (no control
deflection) at your desired cruise. Any deflection of a trim tab results in a
deflection of the corresponding control surface which results in more drag.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Trim & Rigging |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
I remember bringing up this subject when I first bought the plane last year.
I have trim tabs on both ailerons, both bent upwards. I never figured out
the logic in that. I didnt want to bend them both straight, since I was
nervous about screwing something up, but now I'm more inclined to bend them
both flat, and then start from there.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: <cpayne@mc.net>
Subject: Yak-List: Trim & Rigging
> --> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@mc.net
>
> Brian,
>
> It would be great to have 3-axis trim on the CJ, NOT because of high
control pressures but rather because of LIGHT control pressures which
> we adjust for out-of-trim conditions without thinking about it because
> it's not a real problem. The result in cruise cost fuel and speed.
> In formation I LIKE to hold back pressure on the stick to dampen any
> over responses and turbulence.
>
> Wasn't 3-axis trim something you were doing with the Project?
> Homebuilders use MAC servos to good effect, coupled to a "coolie hat"
> switch on the stick.
>
> Craig Payne
>
> Craig Payne wrote:
> > I've trimmed mine for high cruise; lot's of folks don't realize how much
> > trim affects performance.
>
> Actually lots of folks don't realize how much *rigging* affects
performance.
> The idea is to be in trim with all three trim tabs neutral (no control
> deflection) at your desired cruise. Any deflection of a trim tab results
in a
> deflection of the corresponding control surface which results in more
drag.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
Message 4
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Has anyone replaced the oleo's on their CJ? I want to know what I'm gettin into,
I beleive I have leaky seals. Any advice gotchas woul be appreciated.
Ernie
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Trim & Rigging |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
cpayne@mc.net wrote:
> It would be great to have 3-axis trim on the CJ, NOT because of high control
pressures but rather because of LIGHT control pressures which
> we adjust for out-of-trim conditions without thinking about it because
> it's not a real problem. The result in cruise cost fuel and speed.
> In formation I LIKE to hold back pressure on the stick to dampen any
> over responses and turbulence.
Humans are fine for dynamic corrections but not good with static correction.
Trim tabs are much better for that.
>
> Wasn't 3-axis trim something you were doing with the Project?
> Homebuilders use MAC servos to good effect, coupled to a "coolie hat"
> switch on the stick.
That is one of the options. I believe Barry went with the all-eletric trim
option. I opted to stick with stock manual pitch trim and not add aileron trim.
I hadn't decided on whether or not to add rudder trim.
OTOH, if somone wanting the airplane wants three-axis eletric trim I will
certainly put it in.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Trim & Rigging |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Ernie wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
>
> I remember bringing up this subject when I first bought the plane last year.
> I have trim tabs on both ailerons, both bent upwards. I never figured out
> the logic in that.
With a pushrod type control system like the CJ6A has, it doesn't make any sense.
If you had control cables you might do that if they are not adjusted quite right.
> I didnt want to bend them both straight, since I was
> nervous about screwing something up, but now I'm more inclined to bend them
> both flat, and then start from there.
That is precisely what you should do. Fly it to see whether there is any
deflection of either aileron from trail (look to see of the trailing edge of the
aileron matches up with the wingtip). Adjust the tabs to get both ailerons in
trail and then go from there.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Trim & Rigging |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
How do you go about adding aileron and rudder trim on a CJ, sounds like a
major undertaking.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Trim & Rigging
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
> cpayne@mc.net wrote:
>
> > It would be great to have 3-axis trim on the CJ, NOT because of high
control pressures but rather because of LIGHT control pressures which
> > we adjust for out-of-trim conditions without thinking about it because
> > it's not a real problem. The result in cruise cost fuel and speed.
> > In formation I LIKE to hold back pressure on the stick to dampen any
> > over responses and turbulence.
>
> Humans are fine for dynamic corrections but not good with static
correction.
> Trim tabs are much better for that.
>
> >
> > Wasn't 3-axis trim something you were doing with the Project?
> > Homebuilders use MAC servos to good effect, coupled to a "coolie hat"
> > switch on the stick.
>
> That is one of the options. I believe Barry went with the all-eletric
trim
> option. I opted to stick with stock manual pitch trim and not add aileron
trim.
> I hadn't decided on whether or not to add rudder trim.
>
> OTOH, if somone wanting the airplane wants three-axis eletric trim I will
> certainly put it in.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Adding rudder and aileron trim (Was: Trim & Rigging) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Ernie wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
>
> How do you go about adding aileron and rudder trim on a CJ, sounds like a
> major undertaking.
There are three approaches common in experimental/amateur-built circles:
1. bias springs
2. push/pull cable trim tabs
3. small eletric servos
Vans Aircraft offer a simple lever and bias-spring trim system for the aileron
of the RV-series aircraft. The lever just moves spring to supply a continuous
force in the desired direction on the aileron actuator push-rod. This type of
trim should work very well on a CJ6A since the actuator mechanism and the
control pressures are comparable. See
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/parts.txt to get an idea of how much it costs.
Piper uses this same type of system to provide rudder trim in a number of their
aircraft. It is also quite effective.
Vans also uses a vernier control to move the elevator trim tab in their
aircraft. This would probably work for rudder trim as well but probably would
provide too much static drag for the aileron.
The most popular approach is the small electric servo trim system from Mac. I
don't have a pointer to them but here is a link to an identical system from
another manufacturer
(http://www.menzimeraircraft.com/products/trimsystems.html). These use very
small trim motors and actuators that mount inside the control surfaces. These
may be adapted to the CJ6A without too much trouble especially if you are
planning to recover the control surfaces.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Trim & Rigging |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
You go to your nearest CJ6 aileron and rudder trim store and buy these two
little people (about 4.5" tall) and place them in the wing and tail cone
with an ample supply of food. You'll also need micro-headsets for
communication to them. Then when you need to add aileron or rudder trim you
press the intercom PTT mic button and tell the appropriate micro-person to
add or take away defection of the applicable surface. If you decide you
want to use the optional "poor man's" autopilot, you communicate with both
simultaneously requesting them to hold position. :-)
Dennis Savarese
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Trim & Rigging
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
>
> How do you go about adding aileron and rudder trim on a CJ, sounds like a
> major undertaking.
>
> Ernie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian@lloyd.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Trim & Rigging
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
> >
> > cpayne@mc.net wrote:
> >
> > > It would be great to have 3-axis trim on the CJ, NOT because of high
> control pressures but rather because of LIGHT control pressures which
> > > we adjust for out-of-trim conditions without thinking about it because
> > > it's not a real problem. The result in cruise cost fuel and speed.
> > > In formation I LIKE to hold back pressure on the stick to dampen any
> > > over responses and turbulence.
> >
> > Humans are fine for dynamic corrections but not good with static
> correction.
> > Trim tabs are much better for that.
> >
> > >
> > > Wasn't 3-axis trim something you were doing with the Project?
> > > Homebuilders use MAC servos to good effect, coupled to a "coolie hat"
> > > switch on the stick.
> >
> > That is one of the options. I believe Barry went with the all-eletric
> trim
> > option. I opted to stick with stock manual pitch trim and not add
aileron
> trim.
> > I hadn't decided on whether or not to add rudder trim.
> >
> > OTOH, if somone wanting the airplane wants three-axis eletric trim I
will
> > certainly put it in.
> >
> > --
> > Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
> > brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> > +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
> >
> >
>
>
Message 10
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Dennis Savarese
Message 11
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| Subject: | New books for homebuilders |
--> Yak-List message posted by: sonja.englert@juno.com
Hi everyone,
I would like to introduce myself to this group. I am an aeronautical engineer,
pilot, airplane homebuilder and writer. I have written 3 new books for airplane
homebuilders, which you can check out on my web page www.caroengineering.com.
They are mainly for airplane homebuilders, but should be of interest to anyone
who wants to install engines, work with composites or flight test an airplane.
Cheers,
Sonja Englert
www.caroengineering.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | Trim & Trash Talk |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@mc.net
Dennis
Prior to 9/11, I wondered what it would cost to get some CJ mechanics
from China here on work visas to set up a couple of CJ's over here.
Just like the World Wide Warbirds in Deer Valley did with Romanians
and the L-39's.
I would pay a *modest* salary and provide all amenities:
Cots in the hanger, porta-potty nearby, shower curtain around the hose
spigot, weber grill, camp stove, a wok, plenty of rice....fast food. Oh yes, a
TV and VCR for Sunday afternoons when they could have off to rest.
Line up them CJ's for annual condition inspection. America, land of
the Entrepreneur.
Craig Payne
>
>You go to your nearest CJ6 aileron and rudder trim store and buy these two
>little people (about 4.5" tall) and place them in the wing and tail cone
>with an ample supply of food.....
>
>Dennis Savarese
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Trim & Rigging |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
You could ask them to both deflect upwards, and you'd have spoilers !
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Trim & Rigging
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
>
> You go to your nearest CJ6 aileron and rudder trim store and buy these two
> little people (about 4.5" tall) and place them in the wing and tail cone
> with an ample supply of food. You'll also need micro-headsets for
> communication to them. Then when you need to add aileron or rudder trim
you
> press the intercom PTT mic button and tell the appropriate micro-person to
> add or take away defection of the applicable surface. If you decide you
> want to use the optional "poor man's" autopilot, you communicate with both
> simultaneously requesting them to hold position. :-)
> Dennis Savarese
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Trim & Rigging
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
> >
> > How do you go about adding aileron and rudder trim on a CJ, sounds like
a
> > major undertaking.
> >
> > Ernie
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian@lloyd.com>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Trim & Rigging
> >
> >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
> > >
> > > cpayne@mc.net wrote:
> > >
> > > > It would be great to have 3-axis trim on the CJ, NOT because of high
> > control pressures but rather because of LIGHT control pressures which
> > > > we adjust for out-of-trim conditions without thinking about it
because
> > > > it's not a real problem. The result in cruise cost fuel and speed.
> > > > In formation I LIKE to hold back pressure on the stick to dampen any
> > > > over responses and turbulence.
> > >
> > > Humans are fine for dynamic corrections but not good with static
> > correction.
> > > Trim tabs are much better for that.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Wasn't 3-axis trim something you were doing with the Project?
> > > > Homebuilders use MAC servos to good effect, coupled to a "coolie
hat"
> > > > switch on the stick.
> > >
> > > That is one of the options. I believe Barry went with the all-eletric
> > trim
> > > option. I opted to stick with stock manual pitch trim and not add
> aileron
> > trim.
> > > I hadn't decided on whether or not to add rudder trim.
> > >
> > > OTOH, if somone wanting the airplane wants three-axis eletric trim I
> will
> > > certainly put it in.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite
201
> > > brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> > > +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Trim & Trash Talk |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Craig....simply outstanding! Just one thing though. Why provide a Weber
grill (quite expensive compared to everything else) when you already agree
to provide a camp stove? :-)
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: <cpayne@mc.net>
Subject: Yak-List: Trim & Trash Talk
> --> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@mc.net
>
> Dennis
>
> Prior to 9/11, I wondered what it would cost to get some CJ mechanics
> from China here on work visas to set up a couple of CJ's over here.
> Just like the World Wide Warbirds in Deer Valley did with Romanians
> and the L-39's.
>
> I would pay a *modest* salary and provide all amenities:
> Cots in the hanger, porta-potty nearby, shower curtain around the hose
> spigot, weber grill, camp stove, a wok, plenty of rice....fast food. Oh
yes, a TV and VCR for Sunday afternoons when they could have off to rest.
>
> Line up them CJ's for annual condition inspection. America, land of
> the Entrepreneur.
>
> Craig Payne
>
> >
> >You go to your nearest CJ6 aileron and rudder trim store and buy these
two
> >little people (about 4.5" tall) and place them in the wing and tail cone
> >with an ample supply of food.....
> >
> >Dennis Savarese
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Trim & Rigging |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Roger that! Neat idea Ernie! Also, on-command slip (forward or side) could
be engaged.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Trim & Rigging
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
>
> You could ask them to both deflect upwards, and you'd have spoilers !
>
> Ernie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Trim & Rigging
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
> >
> > You go to your nearest CJ6 aileron and rudder trim store and buy these
two
> > little people (about 4.5" tall) and place them in the wing and tail cone
> > with an ample supply of food. You'll also need micro-headsets for
> > communication to them. Then when you need to add aileron or rudder trim
> you
> > press the intercom PTT mic button and tell the appropriate micro-person
to
> > add or take away defection of the applicable surface. If you decide you
> > want to use the optional "poor man's" autopilot, you communicate with
both
> > simultaneously requesting them to hold position. :-)
> > Dennis Savarese
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Trim & Rigging
> >
> >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
> > >
> > > How do you go about adding aileron and rudder trim on a CJ, sounds
like
> a
> > > major undertaking.
> > >
> > > Ernie
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian@lloyd.com>
> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Trim & Rigging
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
> > > >
> > > > cpayne@mc.net wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > It would be great to have 3-axis trim on the CJ, NOT because of
high
> > > control pressures but rather because of LIGHT control pressures which
> > > > > we adjust for out-of-trim conditions without thinking about it
> because
> > > > > it's not a real problem. The result in cruise cost fuel and speed.
> > > > > In formation I LIKE to hold back pressure on the stick to dampen
any
> > > > > over responses and turbulence.
> > > >
> > > > Humans are fine for dynamic corrections but not good with static
> > > correction.
> > > > Trim tabs are much better for that.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Wasn't 3-axis trim something you were doing with the Project?
> > > > > Homebuilders use MAC servos to good effect, coupled to a "coolie
> hat"
> > > > > switch on the stick.
> > > >
> > > > That is one of the options. I believe Barry went with the
all-eletric
> > > trim
> > > > option. I opted to stick with stock manual pitch trim and not add
> > aileron
> > > trim.
> > > > I hadn't decided on whether or not to add rudder trim.
> > > >
> > > > OTOH, if somone wanting the airplane wants three-axis eletric trim I
> > will
> > > > certainly put it in.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite
> 201
> > > > brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> > > > +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Warbirds alive and well in SoCal |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Jim Ivey <jim@jimivey.com>
Camarillo is where I bought my CJ back in '99. Your description matches
my experience exactly. And since it's at sea-level near the coast
airplane performance is awesome (if you're from the hot high desert like
me).
Jim Ivey
Barry Hancock wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
>
>Well, went up to Camarillo today to show the Super Pickle to an
>interested party...and it turned into an airshow.
>
>First I got to demonstrate the go-around capabilities of a CJ when tower
>called a T-28 into "position and hold" when I was on a half mile final
>out of the overhead. As I taxied back, I watched another T-28 take off,
>followed by a Ryan PT-9. Not long after that Drew pulled up in #43. We
>were accompanied on the ramp by two MA-39's (only 5 in the world -
>they're an L-39 on steroids). After lunch with the prospective buyer,
>we walked back out to the airplanes and were greeted by the arrival of
>two more T-28's, an F8F Bearcat in the overhead, and then, as if to show
>Red Star aircraft we're out in numbers as well, a Yak-3 taxiied by for
>T.O. 20 minutes later, he ripped into the pattern and must have an in
>with the tower because there's no way he was doing anywhere close to 250
>knots. Finally, as Drew and I were briefing our flight back down south,
>the owner of the MA-39's (not sure I have the designation right, but I
>know for sure it's an L-39 on roids) drove up and introduced himself.
>Turns out he has 3 CJ's in Illinois.
>
>Drew and I blasted out of CMA with a formation TO and then a low
>transition over the hills of Malibu back down the coast. Over the top
>of LAX with a triple-7 on the roll, some wing work, a little tac form
>and some tail chase to cap off the day.
>
>Yes indeed, warbirds are alive and well in SoCal.
>
>Barry Hancock
>949.300.5510
>www.allredstar.com
>California Condors Squadron
>"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
>
>
Message 17
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@mc.net
Dennis;
Stray dogs.....
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Craig....simply outstanding! Just one thing though. Why provide a Weber
grill (quite expensive compared to everything else) when you already agree
to provide a camp stove? :-)
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: <cpayne@mc.net>
Subject: Yak-List: Trim & Trash Talk
> --> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@mc.net
>
> Dennis
>
> Prior to 9/11, I wondered what it would cost to get some CJ mechanics
> from China here on work visas to set up a couple of CJ's over here.
> Just like the World Wide Warbirds in Deer Valley did with Romanians
> and the L-39's.
>
> I would pay a *modest* salary and provide all amenities:
> Cots in the hanger, porta-potty nearby, shower curtain around the hose
> spigot, weber grill, camp stove, a wok, plenty of rice....fast food. Oh
yes, a TV and VCR for Sunday afternoons when they could have off to rest.
>
> Line up them CJ's for annual condition inspection. America, land of
> the Entrepreneur.
>
> Craig Payne
>
> >
> >You go to your nearest CJ6 aileron and rudder trim store and buy these
two
> >little people (about 4.5" tall) and place them in the wing and tail cone
> >with an ample supply of food.....
> >
> >Dennis Savarese
>
>
Message 18
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Gotch ya!
----- Original Message -----
From: <cpayne@mc.net>
Subject: Yak-List: More Trash
> --> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@mc.net
>
> Dennis;
>
> Stray dogs.....
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
>
> Craig....simply outstanding! Just one thing though. Why provide a Weber
> grill (quite expensive compared to everything else) when you already agree
> to provide a camp stove? :-)
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <cpayne@mc.net>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Trim & Trash Talk
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@mc.net
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> > Prior to 9/11, I wondered what it would cost to get some CJ mechanics
> > from China here on work visas to set up a couple of CJ's over here.
> > Just like the World Wide Warbirds in Deer Valley did with Romanians
> > and the L-39's.
> >
> > I would pay a *modest* salary and provide all amenities:
> > Cots in the hanger, porta-potty nearby, shower curtain around the hose
> > spigot, weber grill, camp stove, a wok, plenty of rice....fast food. Oh
> yes, a TV and VCR for Sunday afternoons when they could have off to rest.
> >
> > Line up them CJ's for annual condition inspection. America, land of
> > the Entrepreneur.
> >
> > Craig Payne
> >
> > >
> > >You go to your nearest CJ6 aileron and rudder trim store and buy these
> two
> > >little people (about 4.5" tall) and place them in the wing and tail
cone
> > >with an ample supply of food.....
> > >
> > >Dennis Savarese
> >
> >
>
>
Message 19
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Lou Dakos" <lou_dakos@bordermail.com.au>
Has anyone any suggestions where to place ballast in CJ6a, C of G man tells me
I need 25Kg (55lb) in tail, I think thats to much that far back so I will put
10Kg (22lb) in tail cone 15Kg (33lb) on loop antenna mount.
Are there any drawings on fitting toe operated hydraulic brakes on cj?
Lou
Message 20
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
List friend Jon Boede has informed me that the correct designation for
the L-39 on steroids is "L-39MA" I'm assuming that MA stands for
Massive kick in the A**.
B
Barry Hancock
949.300.5510
www.allredstar.com
California Condors Squadron
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
Message 21
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Then I guess we could call Craig's CJ6 a CJ6A-MA. What do you think Craig?
You agree?
Dennis Savarese
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Hancock" <radialpower@cox.net>
Subject: Yak-List: Designation
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
>
> List friend Jon Boede has informed me that the correct designation for
> the L-39 on steroids is "L-39MA" I'm assuming that MA stands for
> Massive kick in the A**.
>
> B
> Barry Hancock
> 949.300.5510
> www.allredstar.com
> California Condors Squadron
> "Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
>
>
Message 22
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
Lou,
I put 19 lbs in the tail skid and 34 lbs of bird shot in a bag in the tail
cone. Simple, easy, and been there almost 750 hours.
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710@aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-503-9820cell
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
Message 23
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 1/15/2003 5:46:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,
lou_dakos@bordermail.com.au writes:
> Are there any drawings on fitting toe operated hydraulic brakes on cj?
>
Why do you want to give up a perfectly good brake system?
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710@aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-503-9820cell
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Main Gear Oleos |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 1/15/2003 8:54:27 AM Eastern Standard Time,
ernest.martinez@oracle.com writes:
>
> Has anyone replaced the oleo's on their CJ? I want to know what I'm gettin
> into, I beleive I have leaky seals. Any advice gotchas woul be appreciated.
This is not as easy as it looks. If you want to replace the entire gear leg
maybe but than you have the problem of wear difference of the main gear pin.
If the strut is going soft due to a slight leak, you maybe able to correct or
cure this by adding a sealant to the hydraulic fluid in the strut. I can't
remember its name but its in the Aircraft Spruce & Specialty catalog. I had
the same problem, very common on such system, and this cured it right up.
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710@aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-503-9820cell
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
Message 25
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Lou Dakos wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Lou Dakos" <lou_dakos@bordermail.com.au>
>
> Has anyone any suggestions where to place ballast in CJ6a, C of G man tells
> me I need 25Kg (55lb) in tail, I think thats to much that far back so I will
> put 10Kg (22lb) in tail cone 15Kg (33lb) on loop antenna mount. Are there any
> drawings on fitting toe operated hydraulic brakes on cj?
Work the W&B. If the calculation says you need 25Kg in the tail you can't put
10Kg in the tail and 15Kg on the antenna and achieve the same CG. Perhaps 10 Kg
in the tail and maybe 25Kg at the ADF antenna might work tho'. (No, I didn't
work it out so please don't tell me I am wrong. Go work the W&B yourself to see
what produces the same CG.)
Toe brakes on a CJ6A? What's wrong with the pneumatic brakes?
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 26
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| Subject: | That's what happens... |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
...when you only have two brain cells. I said "L-39MA" and what I meant
was "L-39MS". Sheeesh. Sorry.
Barry Hancock
949.300.5510
www.allredstar.com
California Condors Squadron
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
Message 27
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Is this mike on????
Message 28
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
FOrgot to mention the L-59 also.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Hancock" <radialpower@cox.net>
Subject: Yak-List: Designation
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
>
> List friend Jon Boede has informed me that the correct designation for
> the L-39 on steroids is "L-39MA" I'm assuming that MA stands for
> Massive kick in the A**.
>
> B
> Barry Hancock
> 949.300.5510
> www.allredstar.com
> California Condors Squadron
> "Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 29
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Well, there are several, theres the L-39C which is your run of the mill
L-39, then the L-39ZA and L-39 ZAO whhich have strenghtening in the wings
for armament hardpoints, I beleive there are other modifications for combat
use, then theres the L-159 which is a serious L-39 on steroids.
http://www.aero.cz/eng/default.htm
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Hancock" <radialpower@cox.net>
Subject: Yak-List: Designation
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
>
> List friend Jon Boede has informed me that the correct designation for
> the L-39 on steroids is "L-39MA" I'm assuming that MA stands for
> Massive kick in the A**.
>
> B
> Barry Hancock
> 949.300.5510
> www.allredstar.com
> California Condors Squadron
> "Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
>
>
Message 30
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
I just reread your email. You cant just arbitrarily pick where you put the
weight. 55 lbs in the tail will create one moment 22 in the tail and 33
somewhere else will create a completely different moment. Some planes out
there have no weight in the tail, but have a scuba tank behind the ADF door.
Again, the proper amount of weight and where you put it depends solely on
you weighing the airplane and deriving a proper W&B.
If you look at the archives you will find a nauseating amount of info on W&B
about 6 months ago, when I brought up the same topic. In the end I got it
sorted out. Brian LLoyd published all the stations based on a datum 24"
ahead of the props axial plane. Here is enough info to get you going.
CG Range 17% - 24.1% of MAC
MAC = 68.78"
LEMAC = 116.23"
Nose Wheel 57"
Main gear 146.5"
Tail Skid 338"
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lou Dakos" <lou_dakos@bordermail.com.au>
Subject: Yak-List: Ballast
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Lou Dakos" <lou_dakos@bordermail.com.au>
>
> Has anyone any suggestions where to place ballast in CJ6a, C of G man
tells me I need 25Kg (55lb) in tail, I think thats to much that far back so
I will put 10Kg (22lb) in tail cone 15Kg (33lb) on loop antenna mount.
> Are there any drawings on fitting toe operated hydraulic brakes on cj?
>
>
> Lou
>
>
Message 31
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
If you have removed the radios and installed an M-14 then around 50 lbs is
in the ball park, if you have the Housai engine 25-30 lbs is in the
ballpark, but you wont know untill you weight the airplane. I have 30 lbs in
my tailcone with the stock housai engine, and I'm 3% forward of forward CG
with no GIB, and empty fuel.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lou Dakos" <lou_dakos@bordermail.com.au>
Subject: Yak-List: Ballast
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Lou Dakos" <lou_dakos@bordermail.com.au>
>
> Has anyone any suggestions where to place ballast in CJ6a, C of G man
tells me I need 25Kg (55lb) in tail, I think thats to much that far back so
I will put 10Kg (22lb) in tail cone 15Kg (33lb) on loop antenna mount.
> Are there any drawings on fitting toe operated hydraulic brakes on cj?
>
>
> Lou
>
>
Message 32
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Lou Dakos" <lou_dakos@bordermail.com.au>
The aircraft has been weighed and c of g calcuated but my lame was a bit concerned
about putting all the weight in the tail as he was unsure about spinning we
know we have to re-calculate but I didn't want to much weight on loop attenna
mount, we had already mounted battery back on the adf tray and moved both dc
to ac inverters on a tray above main air tank this makes front cockpit much quieter
and I have a very nice baggage compartment.
Nothing wrong with pnuematic brakes I was asked about hydraulic brakes after I
was seen doing my first taxi attempt.
Lou
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: That's what happens... |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Craig Payne <cpayne@mc.net>
"Ms"? Is that the Lady version? Them Commies were sooo democratic..
Craig Payne
>
> ...when you only have two brain cells. I said "L-39MA" and what I meant
> was "L-39MS". Sheeesh. Sorry.
>
> Barry Hancock
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Main Gear Oleos |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Craig Payne <cpayne@mc.net>
Granville Strut Seal
Craig Payne
cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
> If the strut is going soft due to a slight leak, you maybe able to correct or
> cure this by adding a sealant to the hydraulic fluid in the strut. I can't
> remember its name but its in the Aircraft Spruce & Specialty catalog. I had
> the same problem, very common on such system, and this cured it right up.
>
> Jim Goolsby
====================================================================
Message 35
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Drew Blahnick" <aapilot@adelphia.net>
Phone died, I will call you back, its late there, hows tomm mid morning?
Subj:
May 7-10 fast support?
Drew Allen Blahnick
310.386.9181
www.allredstar.com
California Condors Squadron
"Communism: Lousy Politics - Great Airplanes"
----- Original Message -----
From: <MFilucci@aol.com>
Subject: Yak-List: YPA website
> --> Yak-List message posted by: MFilucci@aol.com
>
> Fellow Yakers,
>
> The Yak Pilots Association's website will be down for maintenance for a
short
> time within the next day or so.
>
> Best wishes to all for the new year.
>
> Mike Filucci
>
>
Message 36
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Craig Payne <cpayne@mc.net>
Only one way to find out. Who will meet me on the field of honor? Last
year I trash talked in order to heat up the blood of all the young
Serria Hotel sticks but all I got was a lady who couldn't get insurance
for the event.
Go figger.
Craig Payne
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
>
> Then I guess we could call Craig's CJ6 a CJ6A-MA. What do you think Craig?
> You agree?
> Dennis Savarese
==============================================================
Message 37
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Actually Lou, I have done a set on my project CJ, as has Les Crowder of
McKinney Texas. If your really serious contact me off line. My feeling is
that it works well but after a couple hundred hours in the stock Yak 18
(same brakes as a CJ), I do not think it's necessary. The pneumatic brakes
are every bit as effective.......just a bit different.
Always Yakin,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lou Dakos" <lou_dakos@bordermail.com.au>
Subject: Yak-List: ballast
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Lou Dakos" <lou_dakos@bordermail.com.au>
>
> The aircraft has been weighed and c of g calcuated but my lame was a bit
concerned about putting all the weight in the tail as he was unsure about
spinning we know we have to re-calculate but I didn't want to much weight on
loop attenna mount, we had already mounted battery back on the adf tray and
moved both dc to ac inverters on a tray above main air tank this makes front
cockpit much quieter and I have a very nice baggage compartment.
> Nothing wrong with pnuematic brakes I was asked about hydraulic brakes
after I was seen doing my first taxi attempt.
>
>
> Lou
>
>
Message 38
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Selby" <alikatz@mbay.net>
Yes
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Subject: Yak-List: test
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
>
> Is this mike on????
>
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