Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:01 AM - Trim run away (Frank Stelwagon)
2. 12:44 AM - Re: Trim run away (Roy O. Wright)
3. 05:32 AM - Super Pickle II (cpayne@mc.net)
4. 06:07 AM - Re: Our rights... Interesting reading. (Brian Lloyd)
5. 06:11 AM - Re: burned valves (Brian Lloyd)
6. 06:14 AM - Re: Why electric trim? (cjpilot710@aol.com)
7. 06:20 AM - Re: Trim run away (Brian Lloyd)
8. 06:26 AM - rapid electric trim disconnect (Was: Why electric trim?) (Brian Lloyd)
9. 06:45 AM - Re: Chinese training (dabear)
10. 07:04 AM - Re: Trim run away (Ernie)
11. 07:38 AM - Re: Trim run away (Brian Lloyd)
12. 07:53 AM - Re: Trim run away (Ernie)
13. 09:02 AM - Re: Trim run away (Brian Lloyd)
14. 11:06 AM - Re: Chinese training (KingCJ6@aol.com)
15. 11:33 AM - Red Star East (Brian Lloyd)
16. 11:37 AM - Re: Chinese training (Brian Lloyd)
17. 12:01 PM - Re: Chinese training (dabear)
18. 12:50 PM - Sarcasm (cpayne@mc.net)
19. 12:54 PM - Re: Sarcasm (dabear)
20. 01:12 PM - trim safety (Barry Hancock)
21. 02:03 PM - Red Star East (Barry Hancock)
22. 02:03 PM - How many posts ? (Gus Fraser)
23. 02:07 PM - Panda-monium (was Super Pickle II) (Barry Hancock)
24. 02:16 PM - Heaters for those Non-Florida airplanes. (dabear)
25. 02:38 PM - Re: Red Star East (Brian Lloyd)
26. 02:38 PM - Re: Heaters for those Non-Florida airplanes. (Gus Fraser)
27. 02:51 PM - Re: Heaters for those Non-Florida airplanes. (Brian Lloyd)
28. 03:37 PM - Re: Heaters for those Non-Florida airplanes. (Ernie)
29. 04:09 PM - Re: Heaters for those Non-Florida airplanes. (Gus Fraser)
30. 04:30 PM - Re: Heaters for those Non-Florida airplanes. (DONALD ANDREWS)
31. 05:23 PM - Re: trim safety (Jim Ivey)
32. 05:35 PM - Re: trim safety (Craig Payne)
33. 05:38 PM - Re: burned valves (Walt Lannon)
34. 05:53 PM - Re: Yak 12 sold (ByronMFox@aol.com)
35. 06:53 PM - Re: Heaters for those Non-Florida airplanes. (Brian Lloyd)
36. 07:08 PM - Re: Heaters for those Non-Florida airplanes. (DONALD ANDREWS)
37. 07:22 PM - Re: Our rights... Interesting reading. (Walt Lannon)
38. 07:31 PM - Re: Heaters for those Non-Florida airplanes. (cjpilot710@aol.com)
39. 08:01 PM - NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS (Emu21@aol.com)
40. 09:51 PM - Re: Chinese training (Andrew Zheng \(China\))
Message 1
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon@earthlink.net>
Trim run away??? That's what the circuit breaker is there for as well as protection.
Pull it and the trim stops due to a shortage of electrons.
Frank N23021
pfstelwagon@earthlink.net
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Trim run away |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roy O. Wright" <roy@wright.org>
I believe the issue is verifying that one still has full control authority
when the trim is at maximum deflection (both directions) across the operating
speeds. This is primarily a function of trim tab size and deflection versus
control pressure.
I believe the scenario is the trim motor sticks on and positions the tab at
it's physical stop. Pilot then pop's the circuit breaker but the tab stays
at the stop. Hopefully you can apply enough control force to offset the
aerodynamic force being applied by the trim tab and have enough control
force margin to land.
Note, pulling the circuit breaker only causes the trim motor to stop changing
the position of the tab. On a run-away, it may also prevent the motor from
letting all that smoke and flames out too. <g>
Another purpose of testing the newly installed trim tabs across the operating
range is to verify that they don't introduce flutter. So it's important to
review emergency egress procedures prior to testing the trim tabs. <g>
Have fun,
Roy
At 12:00 AM 1/20/2003 -0800, Frank Stelwagon wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon@earthlink.net>
>
>Trim run away??? That's what the circuit breaker is there for as well as protection.
Pull it and the trim stops due to a shortage of electrons.
>
>Frank N23021
',,'',,'',,',,'
Roy Wright 512.378.1234 mailto:royw@cisco.com
Cisco Systems import com.cisco.std-disclaimer
Message 3
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@mc.net
Barry,
How about some pics of all these wonderful gadgets on the photoshare
server?
Craig Payne
>...
>I built this CJ with the intention of making it as functional as
>possible for my type of flying....form, X/C, aerobatics, ACM, airshows,
>and some IFR.
>....
>....
>And what's that naca scoop for? I know it's in backwards, but it just
>looked better that way.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Barry
>Barry Hancock
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Our rights... Interesting reading. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
At 11:05 PM 1/19/2003, you wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: Craig Payne <cpayne@mc.net>
>
>Terry,
>
>Check this on the Truth or Fiction.com site:
>http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/facecovered.htm
>
>Also interesting.
The other interesting thing to me is that the missive goes against much of
what the US stands for, e.g.:
the right to dress as you wish, the right to speak as you wish, the right
to worship as you wish, the right not to have someone else cram their ideas
of religion down your throat, etc.
We do speak English (unless you ask someone from the UK as they tend to
question the validity of that statement). We also speak almost every other
language on this earth. The bottom line though is that it is a lot more
efficient to do business in English. Wanna do business and make money in
the USoA? Speak English. If you don't want to speak English then accept
the fact that it will be a lot harder for you to get a job and, by the way,
don't cry about your inability to get a job due to a language limitation
because I am not interested in hearing about it. Regardless, you have the
right to speak any language you choose and I encourage you to do
so. Learned people speak more than one language.
I do not accept that, because our country was founded by people who were
predominantly of the Christian faith, we must forever accede to that
faith. For that matter the hate and discontent between the various sects
of the Christian faith is still evident and, I would hope, a source of
shame to those self-proclaimed right-thinking Christians. Many of the
biggest problems in this world today are the result of religious
intolerance. For examples you need only look at Iran, Afghanistan and the
Taliban, Lebanon, Israel and the Arab nations, and Northern Ireland.
And before you get on your high-horse about how tolerant we are here, think
back to the beginning. The US was founded on religious intolerance. The
Puritans had formed a virtual religious theocracy in England and finally
got their asses kicked out. They came over here so they could have their
own place where they could enforce their "Christian" religious beliefs on
an entire population. It is not clear that we have fully recovered from that.
So if you want to put "In God We Trust" on the school wall I am not going
to try to argue with you. If students want to get together at school and
pray, fine with me. But don't EVER tell *me* I am required to pledge
allegiance to that same God. Thank God you don't have the right to cram
your religion down my throat in the US and certainly not in a public school.
So don't preach to me about the anglo-judeo-christian-centric background of
the United States. Sure that is part of our background but the slavish
adherence to that as the "right way" sticks in my craw. I want to live in
a country where everyone is courteous and respects the rights and beliefs
of all other people, including people who do NOT share my
anglo-judeo-christian background.
No, I am not trying to be PC. If you are not Christian and walk up to you
and say, "Merry Christmas," I expect you to accept that as a token of good
will and my genuine wish that you have a pleasant holiday period, not that
I am trying to force Christian beliefs on you. Likewise I will be pleased
if you invite me to join you in a meal at the end of the day's fast during
Ramadan.
<sigh> Can we go back to talking about airplanes?
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Ste 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 +1.360.838.9669
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: burned valves |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Jon Boede wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@zoso.email.net>
>
> At my annual, 2 months and 65 hours ago, we replaced the exhaust valve on
> the #3 cylinder because it had a nice V burned into it. Recently my CJ-6A
> started making that sucking noise that makes you cringe when you pull the
> prop through, so we took a peek and found that the #2 cylinder now has a V
> growing in the exhaust valve.
>
> Anybody have any experience with valves turning up burned like this? At
> the annual #2 did a 78/80 on the compression check and the valve clearance
> seemed just fine tonight.
I was going to suggest you check the valve lash. Excessive lead and carbon
particles might prevent a valve from closing all the way. Perhaps running
unleaded mogas might help.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Why electric trim? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
Here is my $.02 worth.
Trim effectiveness is a function of its size in relation to the rest of the
control surface, and speed or dynamic pressure. Most are designed (in this
class of aircraft) that they cannot over come the stick forces that a pilot
is capable of. Uncomfortable yes, but not uncontrollable. The sizing of
trims on the CJ-6 look about average.
When I built my Pitts a trillion years ago, I wanted to put an elevator trim
on it. I approached Curtis Pitts who only live down the road from my home
town (We're both Florida boys). At the time, he was doing the STC stuff on
the S2C and I happened to walk in as he was stress testing the elevator trim.
At the time he told me that FAR require that the trim tab be a certain size
in relation to the elevator area, but one could get very good trim with a far
smaller trim tab. This turned out to be true in my case. I put on an
adjustable tab that was about 25% the size require by FARs. It was 4" x 2"
cord. It was extremely effect. AND like all trims can caused violent
elevator flutter. During testing, I dove the airplane to the Vne (203 mph if
I remember correctly), at some point during the flight, the trim tab control
wire had broken on the tab arm. When I applied up elevator for the recovery,
I experienced very rapid fore & aft flutter in the stick along with airframe
buffeting. It quit immediately on my closing the throttle.
Like everyone says you'll need to know what the effects of full tab
displacement has and this needs to be looked at up to and at Vne speeds.
Hay! flight testing is always fun!!
In the event of a "run away tab," you could have the trim system powered
though a significantly placed toggle switch or a red collard CB on an easy to
find part of a CB panel.
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710@aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-503-9820cell
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Trim run away |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Frank Stelwagon wrote:
> Trim run away??? That's what the circuit breaker is there for as well as
> protection. Pull it and the trim stops due to a shortage of electrons.
OK, let's look at this. You are flying along looking over your shoulder at
something when the airplane begins to pitch up. Your first reaction it to add
foward pressure on the stick which you do. But you realize after a couple of
seconds that you need to add more and more forward pressure and realize there is
a problem. Now you suffer about two seconds more of confusion before it dawns
on you that you have a runaway pitch trim servo. You look for the circuit
breaker (you know it was over there last week when you looked last) and reach
for it but miss it on the first pass. Finally you grab it and pull it but by
this time the trim servo has reached the stop and now you are flying the
airplane with full nose-up trim.
Now, can you fly to an airport and land the airplane safely with full nose-up or
nose-down pitch trim? If not, I would be looking for a way to add manual pitch
trim back into the system.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 8
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| Subject: | rapid electric trim disconnect (Was: Why electric trim?) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Taking a page from alternator overvoltage protection, you can put a crowbar-type
"trim disconnect" switch on the stick or throttle. (What about the unused PTT
button on the throttle?) This button just shorts the trim power line to ground
thus popping the breaker right now. No poking about the cockpit in order to
find the trim circuit breaker. What could be simpler?
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Chinese training |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "dabear" <dabear@damned.org>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock
<radialpower@cox.net>
>
>
> > Frankly, I would like to see the Chinese come over and do a
two-week
> > training
> > session on systems and maintenance of the CJ6A. It should cost
about
> > $2000 per
> > person attending.
>
> We'd love to see that as well. However, until such time that we
can get
> enough visas and translators to hop the pond, and a bunch of folks
> willing to dedicate two full weeks out of their schedules, and
dish out
> enough cash for a boat load of Tsing Tao, I think Red Star 'O3 is
a
> reasonable alternative... :)
>
Wow, this is the first time I've heard of this Red Star thing.
Sounds like a great idea. Good thing though that they are not
redundant in their messaging. Good thing also that no one will get
tired of their continued bleating about something they refuse to
bring to the east coast. Not that it makes those of us on the east
coast frustrated because they don't stop talking about it nor do
they send any delegation over her. No wouldn't be that.
Al
no, no nerve there. it's used to be a nerve.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Trim run away |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Wouldnt it be a simpler soution to just limit trim travel so in the event of
a runaway, it would just be an uncomfortable flight as opposed to a death
defying one. I mean, how much trim is required to trim out a little
pressure. The plane flys relatively hands off now as it is, all we're
talking about is adding a few extra ounces in one direction or another for
cruise configuration right? We dont need the amount of trim authority
required in the elevators do we?? If one keeps the elevator trim wheel along
with its electric counterpart, a simple clutch should be enough to over ride
the offending servo especially if it was connected to the trim wheel itself
as opposed to putting a servo in the elevator as was proposed.
Am I over simplifying things here??
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Trim run away
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
> Frank Stelwagon wrote:
> > Trim run away??? That's what the circuit breaker is there for as well
as
> > protection. Pull it and the trim stops due to a shortage of electrons.
>
> OK, let's look at this. You are flying along looking over your shoulder
at
> something when the airplane begins to pitch up. Your first reaction it to
add
> foward pressure on the stick which you do. But you realize after a couple
of
> seconds that you need to add more and more forward pressure and realize
there is
> a problem. Now you suffer about two seconds more of confusion before it
dawns
> on you that you have a runaway pitch trim servo. You look for the circuit
> breaker (you know it was over there last week when you looked last) and
reach
> for it but miss it on the first pass. Finally you grab it and pull it but
by
> this time the trim servo has reached the stop and now you are flying the
> airplane with full nose-up trim.
>
> Now, can you fly to an airport and land the airplane safely with full
nose-up or
> nose-down pitch trim? If not, I would be looking for a way to add manual
pitch
> trim back into the system.
>
> --
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Trim run away |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Ernie wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
>
> Wouldnt it be a simpler soution to just limit trim travel so in the event of
> a runaway,
The problem with that is that you probably then have insufficient trim authority
for all normal flight regimes.
> If one keeps the elevator trim wheel along
> with its electric counterpart, a simple clutch should be enough to over ride
> the offending servo especially if it was connected to the trim wheel itself
> as opposed to putting a servo in the elevator as was proposed
>
> Am I over simplifying things here??
No, I think you are right on the mark with this last statement. That is why I
am planning to put a servo on the existing pitch trim system as you suggest
rather than to put all my eggs into one eletric trim servo basket.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Trim run away |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Well thats my point, you really dont need much authority in cruise
configuration, I personally wont use any rudder or aileron trim for landing
configs or any other regimes I can think of. In cruise I would just need to
trim out that wee bit of pressure to keep her straight as an arrow.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Trim run away
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
> Ernie wrote:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
> >
> > Wouldnt it be a simpler soution to just limit trim travel so in the
event of
> > a runaway,
>
> The problem with that is that you probably then have insufficient trim
authority
> for all normal flight regimes.
>
> > If one keeps the elevator trim wheel along
> > with its electric counterpart, a simple clutch should be enough to over
ride
> > the offending servo especially if it was connected to the trim wheel
itself
> > as opposed to putting a servo in the elevator as was proposed
> >
> > Am I over simplifying things here??
>
> No, I think you are right on the mark with this last statement. That is
why I
> am planning to put a servo on the existing pitch trim system as you
suggest
> rather than to put all my eggs into one eletric trim servo basket.
> --
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Trim run away |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Ernie wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
>
> Well thats my point, you really dont need much authority in cruise
> configuration, I personally wont use any rudder or aileron trim for landing
> configs or any other regimes I can think of. In cruise I would just need to
> trim out that wee bit of pressure to keep her straight as an arrow.
You don't need much aileron trim authority at all. As you say, you just want to
trim out a tiny imbalance. You might want more rudder authority. You probably
want to trim out most of rudder input due to right-turning tendency on climb out.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Chinese training |
--> Yak-List message posted by: KingCJ6@aol.com
"Redundant" is simply building awareness through repeat exposure. This
practice is probably not necessary since there will never be any new Yak/CJ
owners or new list members.
I do understand why Drew, Barry and the other Red Star volunteers refuse to
"bring" the event to the East. Simply stated, they are just not spending
enough of their own time and money to stage the West coast event. They need
to invest more of their money and resources here before they take the show on
the road. Also, the event is so grossly profitable, if they were to expand
to the East, the liberals would just tax them into the poor house.
Dave
In a message dated 1/20/2003 6:46:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,
dabear@damned.org writes:
> Wow, this is the first time I've heard of this Red Star thing.
> Sounds like a great idea. Good thing though that they are not
> redundant in their messaging. Good thing also that no one will get
> tired of their continued bleating about something they refuse to
> bring to the east coast. Not that it makes those of us on the east
> coast frustrated because they don't stop talking about it nor do
> they send any delegation over her. No wouldn't be that
Message 15
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Hey Al! Why not cut a deal with Drew to franchise the Red Star operation and
put on Red Star East! You can do a better job than Drew and Barry and then lord
it over them.
Me? I worked with Drew getting it to happen last year. Man, I was able to just
line my pockets big time. My hourly rate was unbeliveable! I felt so ashamed
of myself for raking in that much money that I couldn't in good conscience do it
again this year.
But you would do a GREAT job Al. It is just like selling drugs to kiddies.
Pilots line up from all over the country to throw money at you. So go for it!
Make Red Star East a happenin' thing!
Don't worry about a thing. Drew will explain just how drop-dead easy it is.
You will be on easy street in no time!
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Chinese training |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
KingCJ6@aol.com wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: KingCJ6@aol.com
>
> "Redundant" is simply building awareness through repeat exposure. This
> practice is probably not necessary since there will never be any new Yak/CJ
> owners or new list members.
Of course not! That is the reason for this list. Prospective Yak/CJ owners
find the list, subscribe, get verbally abused and confused, drop off the list,
and drop their desire for a Yak/CJ. See, it works!
> I do understand why Drew, Barry and the other Red Star volunteers refuse to
> "bring" the event to the East. Simply stated, they are just not spending
> enough of their own time and money to stage the West coast event. They need
> to invest more of their money and resources here before they take the show on
> the road. Also, the event is so grossly profitable, if they were to expand
> to the East, the liberals would just tax them into the poor house.
Amen to that! I am getting ready to start doing my taxes and I'm afraid I am
going to have to declare all that income from last year.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Chinese training |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "dabear" <dabear@damned.org>
Just a note for those sarcastic impaired. The note was complete
sarcasm, I hope to make the west coast event. I did look at trying
to put on a east coast event under their supervision but I didn't
have the time to do it properly.
Al
> > > Frankly, I would like to see the Chinese come over and do a
> two-week
> > > training
> > > session on systems and maintenance of the CJ6A. It should
cost
> about
> > > $2000 per
> > > person attending.
> >
> > We'd love to see that as well. However, until such time that we
> can get
> > enough visas and translators to hop the pond, and a bunch of
folks
> > willing to dedicate two full weeks out of their schedules, and
> dish out
> > enough cash for a boat load of Tsing Tao, I think Red Star 'O3
is
> a
> > reasonable alternative... :)
> >
>
> Wow, this is the first time I've heard of this Red Star thing.
> Sounds like a great idea. Good thing though that they are not
> redundant in their messaging. Good thing also that no one will
get
> tired of their continued bleating about something they refuse to
> bring to the east coast. Not that it makes those of us on the
east
> coast frustrated because they don't stop talking about it nor do
> they send any delegation over her. No wouldn't be that.
>
>
> Al
>
> no, no nerve there. it's used to be a nerve.
>
>
====
>
====
>
====
>
====
>
>
Message 18
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@mc.net
Wok 'n Roll dude! Bring some of that Left Coast weather back East and
everyone would come. We could do a mass formation over Camp David and...
Craig Payne
--> Yak-List message posted by: "dabear" <dabear@damned.org>
Just a note for those sarcastic impaired. The note was complete
sarcasm, I hope to make the west coast event. I did look at trying
to put on a east coast event under their supervision but I didn't
have the time to do it properly.
Al
> > > Frankly, I would like to see the Chinese come over and do a
> two-week
> > > training
> > > session on systems and maintenance of the CJ6A. It should
cost
> about
> > > $2000 per
> > > person attending.
> >
> > We'd love to see that as well. However, until such time that we
> can get
> > enough visas and translators to hop the pond, and a bunch of
folks
> > willing to dedicate two full weeks out of their schedules, and
> dish out
> > enough cash for a boat load of Tsing Tao, I think Red Star 'O3
is
> a
> > reasonable alternative... :)
> >
>
> Wow, this is the first time I've heard of this Red Star thing.
> Sounds like a great idea. Good thing though that they are not
> redundant in their messaging. Good thing also that no one will
get
> tired of their continued bleating about something they refuse to
> bring to the east coast. Not that it makes those of us on the
east
> coast frustrated because they don't stop talking about it nor do
> they send any delegation over her. No wouldn't be that.
>
>
> Al
>
> no, no nerve there. it's used to be a nerve.
>
>
====
>
====
>
====
>
====
>
>
Message 19
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "dabear" <dabear@damned.org>
Anyone interested in practicing mock-air-ground attacks against a
certain location, please meet at MRB this weekend. :-)
Al
For those FBI/CIA/HS agents reading this email, note the subject
line and get a real sense of humor.
----- Original Message -----
From: <cpayne@mc.net>
Subject: Yak-List: Sarcasm
> --> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@mc.net
>
> Wok 'n Roll dude! Bring some of that Left Coast weather back East
and
> everyone would come. We could do a mass formation over Camp David
and...
>
> Craig Payne
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "dabear" <dabear@damned.org>
>
> Just a note for those sarcastic impaired. The note was complete
> sarcasm, I hope to make the west coast event. I did look at
trying
> to put on a east coast event under their supervision but I didn't
> have the time to do it properly.
>
> Al
>
> > > > Frankly, I would like to see the Chinese come over and do a
> > two-week
> > > > training
> > > > session on systems and maintenance of the CJ6A. It should
> cost
> > about
> > > > $2000 per
> > > > person attending.
> > >
> > > We'd love to see that as well. However, until such time that
we
> > can get
> > > enough visas and translators to hop the pond, and a bunch of
> folks
> > > willing to dedicate two full weeks out of their schedules, and
> > dish out
> > > enough cash for a boat load of Tsing Tao, I think Red Star 'O3
> is
> > a
> > > reasonable alternative... :)
> > >
> >
> > Wow, this is the first time I've heard of this Red Star thing.
> > Sounds like a great idea. Good thing though that they are not
> > redundant in their messaging. Good thing also that no one will
> get
> > tired of their continued bleating about something they refuse to
> > bring to the east coast. Not that it makes those of us on the
> east
> > coast frustrated because they don't stop talking about it nor do
> > they send any delegation over her. No wouldn't be that.
> >
> >
> > Al
> >
> > no, no nerve there. it's used to be a nerve.
> >
> >
> ====
> >
> ====
> >
> ====
> >
> ====
> >
> >
>
>
====
>
====
>
====
>
====
>
>
Message 20
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
>
>
> Taking a page from alternator overvoltage protection, you can put a
> crowbar-type
>
> "trim disconnect" switch on the stick or throttle. (What about the
> unused PTT
> button on the throttle?) This button just shorts the trim power line
> to ground
>
> thus popping the breaker right now. No poking about the cockpit in
> order to
> find the trim circuit breaker. What could be simpler?
Well, as I suspected the run-away trim issue is not really an issue with
the CJ - *provided* you follow basic aerodynamic principals. I spoke
with Rich Tichacek today, he's the first one to install the 3x trim. He
reported that you can easily overpower the rudder and elevator trim when
at their stops...he hasn't tested the aileron.
So while there is added complexity that needs to be weighed, a run-away
trim tab should not ruin your day.
This does not change the attitude I'm taking with them in my plane. I'm
still gonna test all the possibilities and expect something to go wrong.
Also, I don't have an unused PTT button on my throttle. Speaking of
buttons though, another advantage of the electric trim is that you never
have to take your hands off the controls to adjust trim...useful in
formation.
Again, none of this is *necessary*, but I think it adds to the enjoyment
of flying the airplane which, ultimately, is what it is all about.
Cheers,
Barry
Barry Hancock
949.300.5510
www.allredstar.com
California Condors Squadron
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
Message 21
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
> Wow, this is the first time I've heard of this Red Star thing.
> Sounds like a great idea. Good thing though that they are not
> redundant in their messaging. Good thing also that no one will get
> tired of their continued bleating about something they refuse to
> bring to the east coast. Not that it makes those of us on the east
> coast frustrated because they don't stop talking about it nor do
> they send any delegation over her. No wouldn't be that.
>
>
> Al
Al, Al, Al,
Let me just set a few things straight. First, there are new people
coming to the Yak-list all the time. Second, there are many people that
see something, get busy and forget to follow up, etc., etc., etc. Many
people are unaware of the scope that Red Star covers...it is unlike
anything that has heretofore been put on so part of making it successful
is educating people about what we do. Until now the CJ/Yak fly-ins have
been predominately (if not exclusively) formation clinics. Red Star has
set out to make it much more inclusive for the owners and operators of
our aircraft. Many things, including having some weight with the FAA,
can happen as a result of growing the community to include *all* things
Red Star.
No one has ever refused to bring Red Star to the East Coast, nor will we
ever refuse to do so. To do such directly contradicts our mission
statement (http://www.allredstar.com/Mission.asp). It is our intention
to make this a coast-to-coast entity, and beyond. Look at our web
site. The reason that Red Star is predominately on the West Coast
*right now* is because this is where Drew and I live. We don't have
time to travel around the country exclusively putting on Red Star
events. We need people in each of the regions listed on our web site to
take the bull by the horns and volunteer to head up that region. They
then need to build up their region through promoting local squadrons to
form and participate. The potential (fun, safety, lobbying power,
education, insurance, etc.) is HUGE for all of us, but the effort is not
small.
Drew has done the bulk of the work and, as his partner, I pitch in as
much (time, money, etc.) as I can to get this thing up and running.
Both of us are doing this part-time, in addition to our normal jobs. As
an event draws closer, the logistics pile up and it takes a full time
effort, or adding bodies to get things done. To "send a delegation" over
there, could certainly be arranged in order to help facilitate a Red
Star East, but understand that it takes literally SEVERAL HUNDREDS of
man hours to pull an event of this magnitude together. And each year,
as the event grows, we need more man hours, more people, etc. Our end
game in all of this is for each of the regions to have their own event
(like our West Coast Red Star event), and then have all the regions get
together once a year for a national convention. Can you imagine having
over 100 Red Star aircraft, Yaks, CJ's, MiG's, L-29/39/59's, etc. at one
place at one time? I can, but what it's going to take is for highly
dedicated/capable individuals to step up and devote a serious chunk of
time and resources to the cause. Drew and I firmly believe in what
we're doing, and that it will be a benefit to the entire community.
> Brian wrote:
> Me? I worked with Drew getting it to happen last year. Man, I was
> able to just
> line my pockets big time. My hourly rate was unbeliveable! I felt so
> ashamed
> of myself for raking in that much money that I couldn't in good
> conscience do it
> again this year.
Yeah, how else to you think Brian moved his family to the islands! :)
>
> But you would do a GREAT job Al. It is just like selling drugs to
> kiddies.
> Pilots line up from all over the country to throw money at you. So go
> for it!
>
> Make Red Star East a happenin' thing!
>
> Don't worry about a thing. Drew will explain just how drop-dead easy
> it is.
> You will be on easy street in no time!
Anyone who has ever tried to start their own business knows the hard
work, dedication, risk, long hours, etc., that it takes to make a go of
it. Red Star is no different in that aspect. Where we are a little
different is that we are trying to build an organization to benefit
everyone involved with the airplanes for which we all have a passion.
So, if you want to head up a region, or put on an event in your area,
just let us know and we'll do what we can to help.
Cheers,
Barry
Barry Hancock
949.300.5510
www.allredstar.com
California Condors Squadron
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
Message 22
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| Subject: | How many posts ? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
I am guessing that it is a poor weather weekend all over the country as the
number of posts is more. I suspect that there is a direct relationship
between the outside temp and the number of posts. Maybe I will do that
thesis after all :)
Great Yak weather up here in the NE -22 when I landed at Floyd Bennet field.
Yak heaters are good but I was still bloody cold when I landed after 2 hours
at 6.5
Gus
Message 23
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| Subject: | Panda-monium (was Super Pickle II) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
Craig,
No photos, yet. I don't want to cut into my ticket sales.
I'll be setting my ticket booth right next to Hal's at OSH. I'll even
have a "doggie bag" for the traditionalists... :)
Cheers,
Barry
Barry Hancock
949.300.5510
www.allredstar.com
California Condors Squadron
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
Message 24
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| Subject: | Heaters for those Non-Florida airplanes. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "dabear" <dabear@damned.org>
Pappy, you can ignore this post.
I had the standard heater in my Yak-52. I spent 1.1 hours at 10.5
one cold (-10F surface) IL day a few years back. I had on layers, I
was cold, but I was ok upon landing. My GIB on the other hand
needed to be thawed out for a while in the hot tub. There wasn't
much air leaking around the cockpit, but I would have liked more
airflow.
The CJ heater is..... um.... well there isn't one. That said, I
hope to have one installed into my airplane this week. :-) I'm
hearing great things about the prototype and its effectiveness
during these 10-20F days in DC in another CJ. I'll let you know how
it works once I get the chance to try it out. The weekend was nice
here, but very cold. I like flying in the cold clear air for the
obvious reasons.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gus Fraser" <fraseg@comcast.net>
Subject: Yak-List: How many posts ?
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
>
> I am guessing that it is a poor weather weekend all over the
country as the
> number of posts is more. I suspect that there is a direct
relationship
> between the outside temp and the number of posts. Maybe I will do
that
> thesis after all :)
>
> Great Yak weather up here in the NE -22 when I landed at Floyd
Bennet field.
> Yak heaters are good but I was still bloody cold when I landed
after 2 hours
> at 6.5
>
> Gus
>
>
====
>
====
>
====
>
====
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Red Star East |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Barry Hancock wrote:
> Many
> people are unaware of the scope that Red Star covers...it is unlike
> anything that has heretofore been put on
Oh gak. You have been doing PR too long.
> so part of making it successful
> is educating people about what we do. Until now the CJ/Yak fly-ins have
> been predominately (if not exclusively) formation clinics. Red Star has
> set out to make it much more inclusive for the owners and operators of
> our aircraft. Many things, including having some weight with the FAA,
> can happen as a result of growing the community to include *all* things
> Red Star.
>
> No one has ever refused to bring Red Star to the East Coast, nor will we
> ever refuse to do so.
Barry, I think your leg came off in his hand.
> To do such directly contradicts our mission
> statement (http://www.allredstar.com/Mission.asp).
And you are violating rule six.
(For those of you unfamiliar with Rule Six it states, "Never take yourself too
seriously.")
> It is our intention
> to make this a coast-to-coast entity, and beyond. Look at our web
> site. The reason that Red Star is predominately on the West Coast
> *right now* is because this is where Drew and I live. We don't have
> time to travel around the country exclusively putting on Red Star
> events. We need people in each of the regions listed on our web site to
> take the bull by the horns and volunteer to head up that region. They
> then need to build up their region through promoting local squadrons to
> form and participate. The potential (fun, safety, lobbying power,
> education, insurance, etc.) is HUGE for all of us, but the effort is not
> small.
This should be an html posting. We could have a MIDI version of "Battle Hymn of
the Republic" playing in the background right about now.
> Drew has done the bulk of the work and, as his partner, I pitch in as
> much (time, money, etc.) as I can to get this thing up and running.
> Both of us are doing this part-time, in addition to our normal jobs. As
> an event draws closer, the logistics pile up and it takes a full time
> effort, or adding bodies to get things done. To "send a delegation" over
> there, could certainly be arranged in order to help facilitate a Red
> Star East, but understand that it takes literally SEVERAL HUNDREDS of
> man hours to pull an event of this magnitude together. And each year,
> as the event grows, we need more man hours, more people, etc. Our end
> game in all of this is for each of the regions to have their own event
> (like our West Coast Red Star event), and then have all the regions get
> together once a year for a national convention. Can you imagine having
> over 100 Red Star aircraft, Yaks, CJ's, MiG's, L-29/39/59's, etc. at one
> place at one time? I can, but what it's going to take is for highly
> dedicated/capable individuals to step up and devote a serious chunk of
> time and resources to the cause.
> Drew and I firmly believe in what
> we're doing, and that it will be a benefit to the entire community.
You sound so serious!
In case Barry forgets to mention it, it is a heck of a lot of fun and you will
learn something in spite of yourself.
>>Brian wrote:
>>Me? I worked with Drew getting it to happen last year. Man, I was
>>able to just
>>line my pockets big time. My hourly rate was unbeliveable! I felt so
>>ashamed
>>of myself for raking in that much money that I couldn't in good
>>conscience do it
>>again this year.
>
>
> Yeah, how else to you think Brian moved his family to the islands! :)
That was it! <sigh> But I am getting precious little flying in these days and
flying the Aztec just isn't the same.
I am going to stop here. My tongue is getting just a bit too loose after a
couple of Guinness'.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Heaters for those Non-Florida airplanes. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
Interestingly I was flying up to George Coy's to get my gear fixed so I was
in convoy with a friend in his PA28-140 at 95 knts. I got uneven fuel burn
which I put down to my slower than normal cruise. So I left booted it to
force it to feed which sorted out the problem. My left foot (great name for
a movie) was dead when I got out and I was trembling so much I could not use
a mobile phone. Cheese burger and three coffees later I was on my way. You
just have to take your hat off to the early mail pilots in an open cockpit
Jenny.
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of dabear
Subject: Yak-List: Heaters for those Non-Florida airplanes.
--> Yak-List message posted by: "dabear" <dabear@damned.org>
Pappy, you can ignore this post.
I had the standard heater in my Yak-52. I spent 1.1 hours at 10.5
one cold (-10F surface) IL day a few years back. I had on layers, I
was cold, but I was ok upon landing. My GIB on the other hand
needed to be thawed out for a while in the hot tub. There wasn't
much air leaking around the cockpit, but I would have liked more
airflow.
The CJ heater is..... um.... well there isn't one. That said, I
hope to have one installed into my airplane this week. :-) I'm
hearing great things about the prototype and its effectiveness
during these 10-20F days in DC in another CJ. I'll let you know how
it works once I get the chance to try it out. The weekend was nice
here, but very cold. I like flying in the cold clear air for the
obvious reasons.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gus Fraser" <fraseg@comcast.net>
Subject: Yak-List: How many posts ?
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
>
> I am guessing that it is a poor weather weekend all over the
country as the
> number of posts is more. I suspect that there is a direct
relationship
> between the outside temp and the number of posts. Maybe I will do
that
> thesis after all :)
>
> Great Yak weather up here in the NE -22 when I landed at Floyd
Bennet field.
> Yak heaters are good but I was still bloody cold when I landed
after 2 hours
> at 6.5
>
> Gus
>
>
====
>
====
>
====
>
====
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Heaters for those Non-Florida airplanes. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Gus Fraser wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
>
> Interestingly I was flying up to George Coy's to get my gear fixed so I was
> in convoy with a friend in his PA28-140 at 95 knts. I got uneven fuel burn
> which I put down to my slower than normal cruise. So I left booted it to
> force it to feed which sorted out the problem. My left foot (great name for
> a movie) was dead when I got out and I was trembling so much I could not use
> a mobile phone. Cheese burger and three coffees later I was on my way. You
> just have to take your hat off to the early mail pilots in an open cockpit
> Jenny.
Never underestimate the power of fleece-lined leather. I have done some serious
cold-weather flying in my CJ6A sans heater and found a combination that was
quite comfortable.
long johns
jeans and flannel shirt
nomex flight suit
boots with two pair of socks
nomex gloves with silk glove liners
modified Navy flight jacket with fleece lining
helmet
Once I figured this out I didn't miss the heater a bit.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Heaters for those Non-Florida airplanes. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
:) God I love Florida
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Heaters for those Non-Florida airplanes.
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
> Gus Fraser wrote:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
> >
> > Interestingly I was flying up to George Coy's to get my gear fixed so I
was
> > in convoy with a friend in his PA28-140 at 95 knts. I got uneven fuel
burn
> > which I put down to my slower than normal cruise. So I left booted it to
> > force it to feed which sorted out the problem. My left foot (great name
for
> > a movie) was dead when I got out and I was trembling so much I could not
use
> > a mobile phone. Cheese burger and three coffees later I was on my way.
You
> > just have to take your hat off to the early mail pilots in an open
cockpit
> > Jenny.
>
> Never underestimate the power of fleece-lined leather. I have done some
serious
> cold-weather flying in my CJ6A sans heater and found a combination that
was
> quite comfortable.
>
> long johns
> jeans and flannel shirt
> nomex flight suit
> boots with two pair of socks
> nomex gloves with silk glove liners
> modified Navy flight jacket with fleece lining
> helmet
>
> Once I figured this out I didn't miss the heater a bit.
>
> --
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Heaters for those Non-Florida airplanes. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
Tell me that in the summer when your oil temp is in the red at 60% power
(I'm just jealous)
:)
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ernie
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Heaters for those Non-Florida airplanes.
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
:) God I love Florida
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Heaters for those Non-Florida airplanes.
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
> Gus Fraser wrote:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
> >
> > Interestingly I was flying up to George Coy's to get my gear fixed so I
was
> > in convoy with a friend in his PA28-140 at 95 knts. I got uneven fuel
burn
> > which I put down to my slower than normal cruise. So I left booted it to
> > force it to feed which sorted out the problem. My left foot (great name
for
> > a movie) was dead when I got out and I was trembling so much I could not
use
> > a mobile phone. Cheese burger and three coffees later I was on my way.
You
> > just have to take your hat off to the early mail pilots in an open
cockpit
> > Jenny.
>
> Never underestimate the power of fleece-lined leather. I have done some
serious
> cold-weather flying in my CJ6A sans heater and found a combination that
was
> quite comfortable.
>
> long johns
> jeans and flannel shirt
> nomex flight suit
> boots with two pair of socks
> nomex gloves with silk glove liners
> modified Navy flight jacket with fleece lining
> helmet
>
> Once I figured this out I didn't miss the heater a bit.
>
> --
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Heaters for those Non-Florida airplanes. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "DONALD ANDREWS" <dandmaz23@msn.com>
Brain,
Saturday we had our monthly B.Q. and fly-by at DVT (EAA Warbird Hanger#20) a
four ship CJ-6s looking good. Also T-34 AT-11 T-6's Stearman DVT Tower give
us the north runway for the option it was just great, clear Sky and fifty
miles/ temp 80/ but that's, AZ for you .Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Heaters for those Non-Florida airplanes.
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
> Gus Fraser wrote:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
> >
> > Interestingly I was flying up to George Coy's to get my gear fixed so I
was
> > in convoy with a friend in his PA28-140 at 95 knts. I got uneven fuel
burn
> > which I put down to my slower than normal cruise. So I left booted it to
> > force it to feed which sorted out the problem. My left foot (great name
for
> > a movie) was dead when I got out and I was trembling so much I could not
use
> > a mobile phone. Cheese burger and three coffees later I was on my way.
You
> > just have to take your hat off to the early mail pilots in an open
cockpit
> > Jenny.
>
> Never underestimate the power of fleece-lined leather. I have done some
serious
> cold-weather flying in my CJ6A sans heater and found a combination that
was
> quite comfortable.
>
> long johns
> jeans and flannel shirt
> nomex flight suit
> boots with two pair of socks
> nomex gloves with silk glove liners
> modified Navy flight jacket with fleece lining
> helmet
>
> Once I figured this out I didn't miss the heater a bit.
>
> --
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
Message 31
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Jim Ivey <jim@jimivey.com>
My only concern about many of the electric trims I've seen are similar
to Jim G's experience. If you wondered about what flutter is like you
WILL find out it if the trim tab control linkage fails or becomes
mechanically disconnected from the tab. This is especially critical on
ailerons but elevator trip flopping about will get your attention also.
If you do have one of these system closely inspect the clevis or ball
fittings (designs differ) for security. Also try to make sure the hinge
on the tab has a helical torsion spring keeping pre-load on the system
so any wear or slop in the hinge will be automatically be loaded out.
Like Barry, both of my PTT's are used: one for radio transmit and one
for cockpit/cockpit ICS when in PTT mode.
I for one am very satisfied without electric trim. But if somebody
wants to do it knock yourself out. It makes for an interesting topic.
Jim Ivey
Barry Hancock wrote:
>Also, I don't have an unused PTT button on my throttle. Speaking of
>buttons though, another advantage of the electric trim is that you never
>have to take your hands off the controls to adjust trim...useful in
>formation.
>
>Again, none of this is *necessary*, but I think it adds to the enjoyment
>of flying the airplane which, ultimately, is what it is all about.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Barry
>Barry Hancock
>949.300.5510
>www.allredstar.com
>California Condors Squadron
>"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
>
>
Message 32
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Craig Payne <cpayne@mc.net>
Barry,
Don't forget flutter testing, could be important *if* your CJ is capable
of cruising up near red line....This was the classic problem with early
Fork-Tailed Doctor Killers, they cruised up near red line and sometimes
turbulence or a quick descent caused empennage failure. You really don't
want them trim tabs "buzzing" out there in the breeze.
Craig Payne
> Well, as I suspected the run-away trim issue is not really an issue with
> the CJ - *provided* you follow basic aerodynamic principals.
>....
>I'm still gonna test all the possibilities and expect something to go wrong.
> .....
>
>
> Barry
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: burned valves |
tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,
SUBJECT_IS_LIST,USER_AGENT_OE,USER_IN_WHITELIST
version=2.43
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <lannon@look.ca>
Jon;
I have found two slightly burned exhaust valves so far (4 different CJ's
over the last 4 or 5 years), both showed a loss of pressure on the leakage
test and inadequate clearance. Since then I do a valve clearance check at
annual in addition to the leakdown and have found a number of exhaust valves
without enough clearance.
These are all Huosai engines.
Niether valve was burned as bad as you describe. They cleaned up nicely
after a minimal grind.
It is possible that your problem is also lack of clearance but it could also
be a mixture problem and/or overboost.
RPM for climb at rated power is 2250 at full throttle. Manifold press. after
a sea level take off would be about 820 dropping at approx. 27mm/1000 ft.
You would reach 720mm at about 4000 ft.
Don't know what altitude you start at but even though the RPM is low at 2100
it should not be overboosted at 720. Might be worth thinking about though.
Cheers;
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Boede" <jon@zoso.email.net>
Subject: Yak-List: burned valves
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@zoso.email.net>
>
> At my annual, 2 months and 65 hours ago, we replaced the exhaust valve on
> the #3 cylinder because it had a nice V burned into it. Recently my CJ-6A
> started making that sucking noise that makes you cringe when you pull the
> prop through, so we took a peek and found that the #2 cylinder now has a V
> growing in the exhaust valve.
>
> Woe is me. :-)
>
> Anybody have any experience with valves turning up burned like this? At
> the annual #2 did a 78/80 on the compression check and the valve clearance
> seemed just fine tonight.
>
> I hate to think it's something that I'm doing that's causing it. I
> usually pull it back to 720mm and 2100 @ 500' on take-off, then climb out
> at 720mm and 2100 until I run out of manifold pressure. After that, I
> cruise at 1950 but don't let the manifold pressure get above about 680mm
> at that RPM setting.
>
> Ideas?
>
> Jon
>
>
Message 34
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--> Yak-List message posted by: ByronMFox@aol.com
In a message dated 1/19/03 10:14:50 AM Pacific Standard Time,
lisa@kingscott1.freeserve.co.uk writes:
> I have sold my Yak 12.
>
Great airplane. Hope you find another soon. ...Blitz
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Heaters for those Non-Florida airplanes. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
DONALD ANDREWS wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "DONALD ANDREWS" <dandmaz23@msn.com>
>
> Brain,
> Saturday we had our monthly B.Q. and fly-by at DVT (EAA Warbird Hanger#20) a
> four ship CJ-6s looking good. Also T-34 AT-11 T-6's Stearman DVT Tower give
> us the north runway for the option it was just great, clear Sky and fifty
> miles/ temp 80/ but that's, AZ for you .Don
Heck, it is *always* 80 down here. Now I need a fun airplane to help me enjoy
it. (And I need to get this damned sailboat out of the boat yard.)
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Heaters for those Non-Florida airplanes. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "DONALD ANDREWS" <dandmaz23@msn.com>
Just doing are little thing.Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Heaters for those Non-Florida airplanes.
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
> DONALD ANDREWS wrote:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "DONALD ANDREWS" <dandmaz23@msn.com>
> >
> > Brain,
> > Saturday we had our monthly B.Q. and fly-by at DVT (EAA Warbird
Hanger#20) a
> > four ship CJ-6s looking good. Also T-34 AT-11 T-6's Stearman DVT Tower
give
> > us the north runway for the option it was just great, clear Sky and
fifty
> > miles/ temp 80/ but that's, AZ for you .Don
>
> Heck, it is *always* 80 down here. Now I need a fun airplane to help me
enjoy
> it. (And I need to get this damned sailboat out of the boat yard.)
> --
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Our rights... Interesting reading. |
tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_05_08,
SUBJECT_IS_LIST,USER_AGENT_OE,USER_IN_WHITELIST
version=2.43
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <lannon@look.ca>
Well said Brian!
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Our rights... Interesting reading.
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
> At 11:05 PM 1/19/2003, you wrote:
> >--> Yak-List message posted by: Craig Payne <cpayne@mc.net>
> >
> >Terry,
> >
> >Check this on the Truth or Fiction.com site:
> >http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/facecovered.htm
> >
> >Also interesting.
>
> The other interesting thing to me is that the missive goes against much of
> what the US stands for, e.g.:
>
> the right to dress as you wish, the right to speak as you wish, the right
> to worship as you wish, the right not to have someone else cram their
ideas
> of religion down your throat, etc.
>
> We do speak English (unless you ask someone from the UK as they tend to
> question the validity of that statement). We also speak almost every
other
> language on this earth. The bottom line though is that it is a lot more
> efficient to do business in English. Wanna do business and make money in
> the USoA? Speak English. If you don't want to speak English then accept
> the fact that it will be a lot harder for you to get a job and, by the
way,
> don't cry about your inability to get a job due to a language limitation
> because I am not interested in hearing about it. Regardless, you have the
> right to speak any language you choose and I encourage you to do
> so. Learned people speak more than one language.
>
> I do not accept that, because our country was founded by people who were
> predominantly of the Christian faith, we must forever accede to that
> faith. For that matter the hate and discontent between the various sects
> of the Christian faith is still evident and, I would hope, a source of
> shame to those self-proclaimed right-thinking Christians. Many of the
> biggest problems in this world today are the result of religious
> intolerance. For examples you need only look at Iran, Afghanistan and the
> Taliban, Lebanon, Israel and the Arab nations, and Northern Ireland.
>
> And before you get on your high-horse about how tolerant we are here,
think
> back to the beginning. The US was founded on religious intolerance. The
> Puritans had formed a virtual religious theocracy in England and finally
> got their asses kicked out. They came over here so they could have their
> own place where they could enforce their "Christian" religious beliefs on
> an entire population. It is not clear that we have fully recovered from
that.
>
> So if you want to put "In God We Trust" on the school wall I am not going
> to try to argue with you. If students want to get together at school and
> pray, fine with me. But don't EVER tell *me* I am required to pledge
> allegiance to that same God. Thank God you don't have the right to cram
> your religion down my throat in the US and certainly not in a public
school.
>
> So don't preach to me about the anglo-judeo-christian-centric background
of
> the United States. Sure that is part of our background but the slavish
> adherence to that as the "right way" sticks in my craw. I want to live in
> a country where everyone is courteous and respects the rights and beliefs
> of all other people, including people who do NOT share my
> anglo-judeo-christian background.
>
> No, I am not trying to be PC. If you are not Christian and walk up to you
> and say, "Merry Christmas," I expect you to accept that as a token of good
> will and my genuine wish that you have a pleasant holiday period, not that
> I am trying to force Christian beliefs on you. Likewise I will be pleased
> if you invite me to join you in a meal at the end of the day's fast during
> Ramadan.
>
> <sigh> Can we go back to talking about airplanes?
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Ste 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 +1.360.838.9669
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Heaters for those Non-Florida airplanes. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
Boy! I said it a million times.
If God meant man to live in snow and cold, He would have covered him in hair.
And yawl Yankee think we southerners are slow. :]
PS. We had a freeze last night. Second one this winter. 31 degrees F.
Orange picking weather. Day time temp went to 70F with crystal clear skies
and no wind.
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710@aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-503-9820cell
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
Message 39
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| Subject: | NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Emu21@aol.com
MY NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS IS -
emu21@sbcglobal.net
THANKS ,
RON KALEMBA
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Chinese training |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Andrew Zheng \(China\)" <cjcyak@163bj.com>
In my experience, Only the Chinese air force people have the best experience to
maintenance used CJs than other people in China. Does the people will come from
Chinese air force?
Andrew Zheng from China
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