Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:02 PM - Re: Be Aware FAA can pull anyone's license without recourse.. (Frank Haertlein)
2. 03:27 PM - Re: Be Aware FAA can pull anyone's license without (Roy O. Wright)
3. 05:02 PM - Re: Be Aware FAA can pull anyone's license without recourse.. (Walt Lannon)
4. 07:06 PM - Police states, etc. (Barry Hancock)
5. 07:21 PM - Re: Be Aware FAA can pull anyone's license without recourse.. (Gus Fraser)
6. 07:34 PM - Re: Police states, etc. (Gus Fraser)
7. 08:03 PM - Re: Police states, etc. (cjpilot710@aol.com)
8. 10:39 PM - Re: Police states, etc. (Frank Haertlein)
9. 10:51 PM - Re: Police states, etc. (Frank Haertlein)
10. 11:19 PM - What was this list for??? (Frank Stelwagon)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Be Aware FAA can pull anyone's license without recourse.. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Yakjok;
Do you look like an arab? Are from an arab country? If not, I wouldn't
be too worried about being called a security risk. If, on the other
hand, you are arabic, I want you checked out!
Sorry, but that's the reality we live in these days.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Yakjock
Subject: Yak-List: Be Aware FAA can pull anyone's license without
recourse..
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Yakjock" <Yakjock@msn.com>
I picked this up on the avionics list. This isn't the American way of
doing things that I treasure!
Time: 07:49:16 AM PST US
From: Hal Rozema <hartist1@cox.net>
business journal <phoenix@bizjournals.com>, CHANNEL 3
<scott@azfamily.com>,
Chuck Mulloy <cdmbam@yahoo.com>, drudge
<drudge@drudgereport.com>,
George W Bush <president@whitehouse.gov>,
Joe Norris EAA Information <jnorris@eaa.org>,
Mariann <info@arizonaaviation.com>, Mike DiFrisco
<mdifrisco@eaa.org>,
Paul Bessing kitlog <pbesing@yahoo.com>,
to send to Jodel Group <jodel@yahoogroups.com>,
ZENITH LIST <zenith-list@matronics.com>,
"rv-list@matronics.com" <rv-list@matronics.com>,
"avionics-list@matronics.com" <avionics-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse..
SECURITY
--> Avionics-List message posted by: Hal Rozema <hartist1@cox.net>
You're Grounded/Suspended: TSA Trumps FAA
TSA Takes Over Issuance/Maintenance of Certificates, in New NPRM
In the Federal Register Friday, 01.24.2003, you'll be able to see
that
you can be
knocked out of the air -- just like that -- if the TSA alleges
that you
pose
a 'security risk.' Pilots will be immediately grounded; mechanics,
DERs
--
everybody who holds a certificate of any kind from the FAA -- can
be
immediately out of a job.
The TSA will notify you that you are considered a 'security risk.'
It
will
notify the FAA; and the FAA will immediately suspend your
ticket(s),
pending
your 'appeal.'
You will then have to convince the TSA (which already declared you
a
'security risk') that you are not a 'security risk,' without your
knowing
why they think you are such a risk. Then, when the TSA issues its
final
ruling, the FAA will revoke your papers.
We wanted some confirmation on this, and called the TSA. Chris
Rhatigan,
in
the press office there, said, "You may have to talk to the FAA on
that."
We read her a part of the summary, which says, "This final rule
expressly
makes a person ineligible to hold FAA-issued airman certificates
if the
Transportation Security Administration notifies the FAA in writing
that
the
person poses a security threat."
As we continued reading, and noted that the TSA was calling the
shots,
she
said, "Hold on a second." She returned, and said, "This
[determination
that
you're a security threat] comes from an intelligence database." OK
--
so,
how do we know how big a threat, or how it's determined that one
even is
such a threat? "We don't tell people how to get on to that
database,"
she
said. In other words, if you're denied your certificate, you won't
be
able
to find out why -- just that someone, somewhere, thinks you're a
'security
risk.'
Ms Rhatigan informed us that everything would be spelled out in
the
NPRM,
and that we'd have to wait until Friday, to see what was getting
published
in the Federal Register. Well, folks the law goes into effect
Friday. No
NPRM. No discussion. Decree. Tough.
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Be Aware FAA can pull anyone's license without |
recourse..
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roy O. Wright" <roy@wright.org>
Here's a scenario:
Person A doesn't like, or is jealous of pilot B. A contacts a
security agency and anonymously reports that he overheard B
talking about how great Bin Laden is. Security agency places
B in a security risk database for further investigation.
TSA pulls B's ticket. B's life is seriously complicated or
ruined. B then tries to convince TSA that he is not a security
risk without knowing what he is accused of or by whom. Even
if B presents a good defense, can you see the TSA reversing
itself? Remember Hoover? A has a good laugh and looks for
someone else to report.
Sorry, this rule is seriously flawed. No due process, no right
to face accusers. Also what defines a "security risk"? Being
a political activist? Criticizing the feds? Ethnic background?
Being in debt? Gambling? All of these could be grounds for
denying or revoking a security clearance.
Besides what benefits does this rule provide? If a security
agency has enough info on a person to consider them a security
risk then they ought to have enough info to charge them. Punishing
someone without a trail is not what this country used to be about.
I know, habeas corpus is currently out of vogue, while torture is
back in. :-(
Will pulling a terrorist ticket really stop the terrorist? Anyone
remember how many of the terrorist had a ticket and were type
rated for the aircraft they used on 9/11?
Sorry, this is just one more step in the U.S. joining the ranks
of oppressive police states.
"In Germany they [the Nazis] came first for the Communists, and I didn't
speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and
I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade
unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then
they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a
Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to
speak up."
-- Pastor Martin Niemoeller, 1946
Fly safe,
Roy
At 02:02 PM 1/26/2003 -0800, Frank Haertlein wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
>
>Yakjok;
>Do you look like an arab? Are from an arab country? If not, I wouldn't
>be too worried about being called a security risk. If, on the other
>hand, you are arabic, I want you checked out!
>Sorry, but that's the reality we live in these days.
>
>Frank
',,'',,'',,',,'
Roy Wright 512.378.1234 mailto:royw@cisco.com
Cisco Systems import com.cisco.std-disclaimer
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Be Aware FAA can pull anyone's license without recourse.. |
tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,
SUBJECT_IS_LIST,USER_AGENT_OE,USER_IN_WHITELIST
version=2.43
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <lannon@look.ca>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Be Aware FAA can pull anyone's license without
recourse..
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
<yak52driver@earthlink.net>
>
> Yakjok;
> Do you look like an arab? Are from an arab country? If not, I wouldn't
> be too worried about being called a security risk. If, on the other
> hand, you are arabic, I want you checked out!
How soon we forget!
During WW2 Americans and Canadians of Japanese descent were rounded up and
placed in concentration camps. Their property, homes and busineses were
confiscated and sold at pennies on the dollar to the "right thinking". Not a
single one of the thousands of Japanese Canadians whose lives we destroyed
were ever charged for any disloyal activity. As far as I know the same
applies to the US experience.
Now you seem to be suggesting the same things be done to about 8 million US
citizens. Give your head a shake.
> Sorry, but that's the reality we live in these days.
If so it is people who think like you that are responsible for it.
Walt
>
> Frank
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Police states, etc. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
Well, the Super Bowl is anything *but* again, so if I may engage in a
little self-indulgence here...
> "In Germany they [the Nazis] came first for the Communists, and I didn't
> speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and
> I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade
> unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then
> they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a
> Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to
> speak up."
> -- Pastor Martin Niemoeller, 1946
The above is dead on the money WRT what is "wrong" (i.e. the cause of)
with the direction of the United States of America. The lack of action
and passion on the part of those of us who proclaim disdain for the
liberal agenda is the sole reason we find ourselves in this (declining,
if not down right destructive) state of affairs. I'm just as guilty as
the next guy when it comes to lack of action. I write my public
representatives, yet only occasionally, so I'm not going to get on the
bully pulpit here. However, if we want to save this country from
itself, action on the part of us who have similar feelings is the ONLY
way it can be prevented.
I have had private discussions with many of you on this list, and we all
have a genuine fear for the direction of this great nation. We only
need to compare the spirit and content of our Constitution to the
current state of affairs in this country to know how dangerously close
we are to becoming that very nation from which our forefathers fled.
As it directly pertains to the FAA, however, I'll use the certification
of my new CJ as a prime example. Without going into details, it clearly
states right in the FAR's that the CJ falls into a Special Rules
category WRT the display of "EXPERIMENTAL" in the cockpit. Simply put,
the FAR's clearly state that the CJ can be operated *without* the
"EXPERIMENTAL" placard in the aircraft if "NX" is used in the tail
number because it meets certain criterion. However, my DAR is so
fearful that the local FSDO will be in an uproar, "don't step on your
d**k" was his exact quote, that he wants me to get the plane certified
with the "boiler plate" Ops. Specs. to avoid "red tagging" my airplane
in the future. In other words, they'd make my life difficult because I
made them actually read and comply with the very regulations our tax
dollars pay them to understand. I will approach the FSDO after my plane
is flying to address this issue...until then I have other ways to play
the game, but that is not the point.
It is infuriating to me, but I'm not willing to delay certification nor
stir up a hornets nest and have the FAA make my life any more difficult
than it already is. They've done it to several people in the past and
know that we are powerless to change it...unless we are willing to spend
as much in legal fees as we have spent on our airplanes to fight it. It
is corrupt, plain and simple.
It is clear, Frank, that "the reality we live in these days" is one that
will eventually lead to the stripping of our rights, flying and
otherwise, to such an extent that the values that made this country the
greatest in the world will only be a sad memory. The *only* way this
will not happen, is if we each take it upon ourselves to stand up and be
counted as a voice of opposition to this bureaucratic FUBAR.
30 years from now, I can just hear my son's child "Yeah, my grand-daddy
flew warbirds." "You mean they used to let people *fly* those things?"
Barry Hancock
949.300.5510
www.allredstar.com
California Condors Squadron
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
Message 5
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| Subject: | Be Aware FAA can pull anyone's license without recourse.. |
Bob Warner <rnb01@northnet.net>, yak-list@matronics.com, pilots@nac.net
--> Yak-List message posted by: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
There is a history of this type of justice here before. I think it happened
in a little place called Salem and the target at that time were a bunch of
ladies who happened to know rather too much about herbs, cooking and child
birth. Maybe there will be a "guilt test" associated with this accusation
(ala ducking stool). Maybe you will be taken up to 20,000 feet and thrown
out. If you survive then God must have stepped in as you were innocent. If
not then damn it you are obviously a sinner and deserve to die.
Ladies and gentlemen. I just live here I am British but even in our darkest
days of jurisprudence I am not sure that the basic tenant of innocence until
proved guilt has been completely "forgotten"
I can only imagine how incensed this must make you feel.
This email will almost certainly qualify me for the 20,000 ft jump of truth
but this is ridiculous.
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Roy O. Wright
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Be Aware FAA can pull anyone's license without
recourse..
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roy O. Wright" <roy@wright.org>
Here's a scenario:
Person A doesn't like, or is jealous of pilot B. A contacts a
security agency and anonymously reports that he overheard B
talking about how great Bin Laden is. Security agency places
B in a security risk database for further investigation.
TSA pulls B's ticket. B's life is seriously complicated or
ruined. B then tries to convince TSA that he is not a security
risk without knowing what he is accused of or by whom. Even
if B presents a good defense, can you see the TSA reversing
itself? Remember Hoover? A has a good laugh and looks for
someone else to report.
Sorry, this rule is seriously flawed. No due process, no right
to face accusers. Also what defines a "security risk"? Being
a political activist? Criticizing the feds? Ethnic background?
Being in debt? Gambling? All of these could be grounds for
denying or revoking a security clearance.
Besides what benefits does this rule provide? If a security
agency has enough info on a person to consider them a security
risk then they ought to have enough info to charge them. Punishing
someone without a trail is not what this country used to be about.
I know, habeas corpus is currently out of vogue, while torture is
back in. :-(
Will pulling a terrorist ticket really stop the terrorist? Anyone
remember how many of the terrorist had a ticket and were type
rated for the aircraft they used on 9/11?
Sorry, this is just one more step in the U.S. joining the ranks
of oppressive police states.
"In Germany they [the Nazis] came first for the Communists, and I didn't
speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and
I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade
unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then
they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a
Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to
speak up."
-- Pastor Martin Niemoeller, 1946
Fly safe,
Roy
At 02:02 PM 1/26/2003 -0800, Frank Haertlein wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
<yak52driver@earthlink.net>
>
>Yakjok;
>Do you look like an arab? Are from an arab country? If not, I wouldn't
>be too worried about being called a security risk. If, on the other
>hand, you are arabic, I want you checked out!
>Sorry, but that's the reality we live in these days.
>
>Frank
',,'',,'',,',,'
Roy Wright 512.378.1234 mailto:royw@cisco.com
Cisco Systems import com.cisco.std-disclaimer
Message 6
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| Subject: | Police states, etc. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
Just a thought, those who do not listen to history are destined to repeat
it.
First they came for the Communists...
by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945
First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not
speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I
was neither, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews, but I was
not a Jew so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no
one left to speak out for me.
My point here is where is the line for each of us. What would be the trip
for us ? Hopefully it would not be when nobody was left to speak for us.
I spent 10 Years in the Royal Air Force during the cold war "defending
freedom". I am proud of what I did and consider the fact that I fly a
Russian aircraft proof that we won. I understand the wish to pass a law like
this by the authorities but the cost of such a law, in my mind, is just too
great. We enjoy the single biggest freedom a human being can experience. My
history teacher used to go ON AND ON about the cost of freedom and I never
really got it I suppose that the cost of freedom is having to make a lot of
difficult decisions as there is no one to blame but yourself.
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Barry Hancock
Subject: Yak-List: Police states, etc.
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
Well, the Super Bowl is anything *but* again, so if I may engage in a
little self-indulgence here...
> "In Germany they [the Nazis] came first for the Communists, and I didn't
> speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and
> I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade
> unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then
> they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a
> Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to
> speak up."
> -- Pastor Martin Niemoeller, 1946
The above is dead on the money WRT what is "wrong" (i.e. the cause of)
with the direction of the United States of America. The lack of action
and passion on the part of those of us who proclaim disdain for the
liberal agenda is the sole reason we find ourselves in this (declining,
if not down right destructive) state of affairs. I'm just as guilty as
the next guy when it comes to lack of action. I write my public
representatives, yet only occasionally, so I'm not going to get on the
bully pulpit here. However, if we want to save this country from
itself, action on the part of us who have similar feelings is the ONLY
way it can be prevented.
I have had private discussions with many of you on this list, and we all
have a genuine fear for the direction of this great nation. We only
need to compare the spirit and content of our Constitution to the
current state of affairs in this country to know how dangerously close
we are to becoming that very nation from which our forefathers fled.
As it directly pertains to the FAA, however, I'll use the certification
of my new CJ as a prime example. Without going into details, it clearly
states right in the FAR's that the CJ falls into a Special Rules
category WRT the display of "EXPERIMENTAL" in the cockpit. Simply put,
the FAR's clearly state that the CJ can be operated *without* the
"EXPERIMENTAL" placard in the aircraft if "NX" is used in the tail
number because it meets certain criterion. However, my DAR is so
fearful that the local FSDO will be in an uproar, "don't step on your
d**k" was his exact quote, that he wants me to get the plane certified
with the "boiler plate" Ops. Specs. to avoid "red tagging" my airplane
in the future. In other words, they'd make my life difficult because I
made them actually read and comply with the very regulations our tax
dollars pay them to understand. I will approach the FSDO after my plane
is flying to address this issue...until then I have other ways to play
the game, but that is not the point.
It is infuriating to me, but I'm not willing to delay certification nor
stir up a hornets nest and have the FAA make my life any more difficult
than it already is. They've done it to several people in the past and
know that we are powerless to change it...unless we are willing to spend
as much in legal fees as we have spent on our airplanes to fight it. It
is corrupt, plain and simple.
It is clear, Frank, that "the reality we live in these days" is one that
will eventually lead to the stripping of our rights, flying and
otherwise, to such an extent that the values that made this country the
greatest in the world will only be a sad memory. The *only* way this
will not happen, is if we each take it upon ourselves to stand up and be
counted as a voice of opposition to this bureaucratic FUBAR.
30 years from now, I can just hear my son's child "Yeah, my grand-daddy
flew warbirds." "You mean they used to let people *fly* those things?"
Barry Hancock
949.300.5510
www.allredstar.com
California Condors Squadron
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Police states, etc. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
I'm old enough to remember the black outs, rations stamps, Dad being gone,
hearing an uncle was wounded, and see a Jap Betty bomber on a flat bed
trailer at a war bond drive. I remember all the women in the house were
"Rosies" while my brother, my cousins, and I were taken care of by a black
lady who must have weighted 250 lbs.
It is OK to look back and second guess our WW2 actions as a country, but
remembering the fear and the doubts, I will not blame our countrymen for
that. They just didn't know. As for the Japanese American who were
dispossessed? So they gave up a little more than most, but a lot more gave
up everything. Their burden was the accident of their birth.
If you're Arab and a Moslem that's a problem for you. To me you have 3
choices.
One. Go out of your way to help to America eliminate the scumbags who
degraded your blood line and religion.
Two. Do nothing and never gain back respect nor ever be trusted again.
Three. Go against us, and reap the whirl wind.
I would have no problem with an Arab, who is a full law abiding, God fearing,
American citizen. I have no problem with other arab 'visitor' staying in a
'secure place'.
What bothers me, is who voted for these new rules? Which representative or
senator sponsored it? And if its a bureaucracy that is pushing its weight
around, who the Hell do we fire? That we let our rights (or what we perceive
as rights) be arbitrarily revoked, with out do process, is really crap!
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710@aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-503-9820cell
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
Message 8
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| Subject: | Police states, etc. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Let us open our arms and welcome all the peoples of the world. Let them
understand our passion for freedom. Let them understand our American
ways of justice for all, equality, freedom and all that America stands
for. We have freedom of speech, freedom of religion........all the
worlds religions understand that.....don't they? Our ways are the way of
the world....right? I mean....why would any religion want to destroy the
US and the freedoms it stands for? After all, they understand
freedom.......don't they? The founding fathers and their espousing
freedom of religion never envisioned the violent teachings of islam.
islam is incompatible with freedom. Either it is their way (theocracy)
or it is not valid as a form of governance. As some have said....."The
lack of action and passion on the part of those of us who proclaim
disdain for the liberal agenda is the sole reason we find ourselves in
this" is the exact reason we have this problem of arab axremists in this
country. Some belife sytems are totally incompatible with our concepts
of freedom. islam is one of those. It will forever breed violent
extremists bent on our destruction.
The extreme beleivers of islam hold this way of thinking close to their
heart. No resoned argument can disuade them from it. As 911 so clearly
demonstrates, they seek to kill as many Americans as possible.
So then as so many have said, let us practice tolerance towards the
practitioners of islam.....for, after all, they will understand our open
arms, our tolerance of other religions, our freedoms........and thus
they will become enlightened and thus never attack us (well BULL shit!).
I say....never hand your enemy a stick for he may beat over the pointed
head with it!
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Hancock
Subject: Yak-List: Police states, etc.
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
Well, the Super Bowl is anything *but* again, so if I may engage in a
little self-indulgence here...
> "In Germany they [the Nazis] came first for the Communists, and I
> didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the
> Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for
> the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade
> unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up
> because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no
> one was left to speak up."
> -- Pastor Martin Niemoeller, 1946
The above is dead on the money WRT what is "wrong" (i.e. the cause of)
with the direction of the United States of America. The lack of action
and passion on the part of those of us who proclaim disdain for the
liberal agenda is the sole reason we find ourselves in this (declining,
if not down right destructive) state of affairs. I'm just as guilty as
the next guy when it comes to lack of action. I write my public
representatives, yet only occasionally, so I'm not going to get on the
bully pulpit here. However, if we want to save this country from
itself, action on the part of us who have similar feelings is the ONLY
way it can be prevented.
I have had private discussions with many of you on this list, and we all
have a genuine fear for the direction of this great nation. We only
need to compare the spirit and content of our Constitution to the
current state of affairs in this country to know how dangerously close
we are to becoming that very nation from which our forefathers fled.
As it directly pertains to the FAA, however, I'll use the certification
of my new CJ as a prime example. Without going into details, it clearly
states right in the FAR's that the CJ falls into a Special Rules
category WRT the display of "EXPERIMENTAL" in the cockpit. Simply put,
the FAR's clearly state that the CJ can be operated *without* the
"EXPERIMENTAL" placard in the aircraft if "NX" is used in the tail
number because it meets certain criterion. However, my DAR is so
fearful that the local FSDO will be in an uproar, "don't step on your
d**k" was his exact quote, that he wants me to get the plane certified
with the "boiler plate" Ops. Specs. to avoid "red tagging" my airplane
in the future. In other words, they'd make my life difficult because I
made them actually read and comply with the very regulations our tax
dollars pay them to understand. I will approach the FSDO after my plane
is flying to address this issue...until then I have other ways to play
the game, but that is not the point.
It is infuriating to me, but I'm not willing to delay certification nor
stir up a hornets nest and have the FAA make my life any more difficult
than it already is. They've done it to several people in the past and
know that we are powerless to change it...unless we are willing to spend
as much in legal fees as we have spent on our airplanes to fight it. It
is corrupt, plain and simple.
It is clear, Frank, that "the reality we live in these days" is one that
will eventually lead to the stripping of our rights, flying and
otherwise, to such an extent that the values that made this country the
greatest in the world will only be a sad memory. The *only* way this
will not happen, is if we each take it upon ourselves to stand up and be
counted as a voice of opposition to this bureaucratic FUBAR.
30 years from now, I can just hear my son's child "Yeah, my grand-daddy
flew warbirds." "You mean they used to let people *fly* those things?"
Barry Hancock
949.300.5510
www.allredstar.com
California Condors Squadron
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Police states, etc. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
OOHPS!, Sorry! I meant to say.......never hand your enemy a stick for he
may beat you over the pointed head with it!
Frank
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
--> <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Let us open our arms and welcome all the peoples of the world. Let them
understand our passion for freedom. Let them understand our American
ways of justice for all, equality, freedom and all that America stands
for. We have freedom of speech, freedom of religion........all the
worlds religions understand that.....don't they? Our ways are the way of
the world....right? I mean....why would any religion want to destroy the
US and the freedoms it stands for? After all, they understand
freedom.......don't they? The founding fathers and their espousing
freedom of religion never envisioned the violent teachings of islam.
islam is incompatible with freedom. Either it is their way (theocracy)
or it is not valid as a form of governance. As some have said....."The
lack of action and passion on the part of those of us who proclaim
disdain for the liberal agenda is the sole reason we find ourselves in
this" is the exact reason we have this problem of arab axremists in this
country. Some belife sytems are totally incompatible with our concepts
of freedom. islam is one of those. It will forever breed violent
extremists bent on our destruction.
The extreme beleivers of islam hold this way of thinking close to their
heart. No resoned argument can disuade them from it. As 911 so clearly
demonstrates, they seek to kill as many Americans as possible.
So then as so many have said, let us practice tolerance towards the
practitioners of islam.....for, after all, they will understand our open
arms, our tolerance of other religions, our freedoms........and thus
they will become enlightened and thus never attack us (well BULL shit!).
I say....never hand your enemy a stick for he may beat over the pointed
head with it!
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Hancock
Subject: Yak-List: Police states, etc.
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
Well, the Super Bowl is anything *but* again, so if I may engage in a
little self-indulgence here...
> "In Germany they [the Nazis] came first for the Communists, and I
> didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the
> Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for
> the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade
> unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up
> because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no
> one was left to speak up."
> -- Pastor Martin Niemoeller, 1946
The above is dead on the money WRT what is "wrong" (i.e. the cause of)
with the direction of the United States of America. The lack of action
and passion on the part of those of us who proclaim disdain for the
liberal agenda is the sole reason we find ourselves in this (declining,
if not down right destructive) state of affairs. I'm just as guilty as
the next guy when it comes to lack of action. I write my public
representatives, yet only occasionally, so I'm not going to get on the
bully pulpit here. However, if we want to save this country from
itself, action on the part of us who have similar feelings is the ONLY
way it can be prevented.
I have had private discussions with many of you on this list, and we all
have a genuine fear for the direction of this great nation. We only
need to compare the spirit and content of our Constitution to the
current state of affairs in this country to know how dangerously close
we are to becoming that very nation from which our forefathers fled.
As it directly pertains to the FAA, however, I'll use the certification
of my new CJ as a prime example. Without going into details, it clearly
states right in the FAR's that the CJ falls into a Special Rules
category WRT the display of "EXPERIMENTAL" in the cockpit. Simply put,
the FAR's clearly state that the CJ can be operated *without* the
"EXPERIMENTAL" placard in the aircraft if "NX" is used in the tail
number because it meets certain criterion. However, my DAR is so
fearful that the local FSDO will be in an uproar, "don't step on your
d**k" was his exact quote, that he wants me to get the plane certified
with the "boiler plate" Ops. Specs. to avoid "red tagging" my airplane
in the future. In other words, they'd make my life difficult because I
made them actually read and comply with the very regulations our tax
dollars pay them to understand. I will approach the FSDO after my plane
is flying to address this issue...until then I have other ways to play
the game, but that is not the point.
It is infuriating to me, but I'm not willing to delay certification nor
stir up a hornets nest and have the FAA make my life any more difficult
than it already is. They've done it to several people in the past and
know that we are powerless to change it...unless we are willing to spend
as much in legal fees as we have spent on our airplanes to fight it. It
is corrupt, plain and simple.
It is clear, Frank, that "the reality we live in these days" is one that
will eventually lead to the stripping of our rights, flying and
otherwise, to such an extent that the values that made this country the
greatest in the world will only be a sad memory. The *only* way this
will not happen, is if we each take it upon ourselves to stand up and be
counted as a voice of opposition to this bureaucratic FUBAR.
30 years from now, I can just hear my son's child "Yeah, my grand-daddy
flew warbirds." "You mean they used to let people *fly* those things?"
Barry Hancock
949.300.5510
www.allredstar.com
California Condors Squadron
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 10
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| Subject: | What was this list for??? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon@earthlink.net>
Lets get back to planes, there are a lot of other web sites to solve the worlds
problems.
Frank
N23021
pfstelwagon@earthlink.net
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