Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:41 AM - availability and fragmentation of information (Brian Lloyd)
2. 05:37 AM - Re: availability and fragmentation of information (dabear)
3. 05:50 AM - Info Discussion (cpayne@mc.net)
4. 10:43 AM - Re: Florida in the CJ (Doug)
5. 12:44 PM - Re: availability and fragmentation of information: Red Star (Drew Blahnick)
6. 01:56 PM - Re: availability and fragmentation of information (Robert Mortara)
7. 05:27 PM - Re: availability and fragmentation of information: Red Star (Gus Fraser)
8. 06:34 PM - Re: availability and fragmentation of information: Red Star (Drew Blahnick)
9. 07:39 PM - S&F (cjpilot710@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | availability and fragmentation of information |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
When I first acquired my CJ6A there was no good way to get information. The
importers were somewhat closed-mouthed and not very forthcoming with information
when someone had a problem, especially if that person didn't buy his/her
airplane from that importer. This sometimes left the person who purchased one
from a private party out in the cold. To help aleviate this problem and to
further the dissemination of information I asked Matt to create the Yak-list and
I set up the CJ6 web site.
Now the CJ6A and Yak aircraft have become more popular and more information is
available. You can get on the Yak-list, ask a question, and get an answer.
Sometimes that answer is even correct. Sometimes the answer is accompanied by
a
detailed insight into an individual's personal philosophy. Sometimes the
response is totally information-content free. But what the heck, that is part
of being in a community.
But now I see others talking about creating web sites, chat rooms, and web-based
threaded messaging systems (sometimes called a BBS) independent of the yak-list
or YPA. My concern is that if many of these sites are created we are going to
fragment the sources of information and conversation, and that it will become
difficult to know where to ask questions or go for information. If the site or
sites are for-profit organizations and the operators get it into their heads
that the information has monetary value I fear we will go back to what we had in
the beginning.
Unfortunately I have done a poor job of keeping the information on the CJ6 web
site up-to-date so I can certainly see the desire for something more responsive.
Also we need something equivalent for the Yak aircraft, i.e. on-line
information references. It has to be some place where there are cash-flow and
human resources to maintain the information. Frankly, I think that the best
place to maintain this information is within the YPA since it has structure and
our dues can support the ecumenical distribution of information without concern
for someone's profit motive getting in the way. Also, the YPA as a formal
corporate entity provides a reasonable liability buffer should someone claim
that the information they received resulted in injury. The YPA shields
information providers from frivolous lawsuits and no one is likely to sue the
YPA since it really doesn't have any assets.
Regardless, there will undoubtedly be multiple sources of information. I would
like to see a concerted effort to cross-link the web sites so that someone going
to one site will be able to navigate to the others in their search for information.
Discussion?
(BTW, if someone wants to take over the CJ6.org web site and will maintain it,
I
will be happy to transfer the domain and content to him/her/it. Certainly it
would make sense for the YPA to maintain that.)
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: availability and fragmentation of information |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "dabear" <dabear@damned.org>
I have to agree with Brian, while multiple websites are a great idea
for most information, I'd like to see the discussions stay in one
place. I don't expect that I will spend the time to check more than
one email list, BBS, etc. Brian, if the YPA doesn't take the domain
and the site, I'll take it and run with it.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian@lloyd.com>
Subject: Yak-List: availability and fragmentation of information
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
> When I first acquired my CJ6A there was no good way to get
information. The
> importers were somewhat closed-mouthed and not very forthcoming
with information
> when someone had a problem, especially if that person didn't buy
his/her
> airplane from that importer. This sometimes left the person who
purchased one
> from a private party out in the cold. To help aleviate this
problem and to
> further the dissemination of information I asked Matt to create
the Yak-list and
> I set up the CJ6 web site.
>
> Now the CJ6A and Yak aircraft have become more popular and more
information is
> available. You can get on the Yak-list, ask a question, and get
an answer.
> Sometimes that answer is even correct. Sometimes the answer is
accompanied by a
> detailed insight into an individual's personal philosophy.
Sometimes the
> response is totally information-content free. But what the heck,
that is part
> of being in a community.
>
> But now I see others talking about creating web sites, chat rooms,
and web-based
> threaded messaging systems (sometimes called a BBS) independent of
the yak-list
> or YPA. My concern is that if many of these sites are created we
are going to
> fragment the sources of information and conversation, and that it
will become
> difficult to know where to ask questions or go for information.
If the site or
> sites are for-profit organizations and the operators get it into
their heads
> that the information has monetary value I fear we will go back to
what we had in
> the beginning.
>
> Unfortunately I have done a poor job of keeping the information on
the CJ6 web
> site up-to-date so I can certainly see the desire for something
more responsive.
> Also we need something equivalent for the Yak aircraft, i.e.
on-line
> information references. It has to be some place where there are
cash-flow and
> human resources to maintain the information. Frankly, I think
that the best
> place to maintain this information is within the YPA since it has
structure and
> our dues can support the ecumenical distribution of information
without concern
> for someone's profit motive getting in the way. Also, the YPA as
a formal
> corporate entity provides a reasonable liability buffer should
someone claim
> that the information they received resulted in injury. The YPA
shields
> information providers from frivolous lawsuits and no one is likely
to sue the
> YPA since it really doesn't have any assets.
>
> Regardless, there will undoubtedly be multiple sources of
information. I would
> like to see a concerted effort to cross-link the web sites so that
someone going
> to one site will be able to navigate to the others in their search
for information.
>
> Discussion?
>
> (BTW, if someone wants to take over the CJ6.org web site and will
maintain it, I
> will be happy to transfer the domain and content to him/her/it.
Certainly it
> would make sense for the YPA to maintain that.)
>
> --
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza,
Suite 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
====
>
====
>
====
>
====
>
>
Message 3
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@mc.net
Brian,
The CJ-6 site works well and served a critical need. It is interesting to
note that many of those same importers are no longer in business, at
least the CJ business. The strongest survived; same with the Yak business.
Look at all the GA Type clubs, they serve as a clearing house for news
and info. The YPA as an org works well if judged by it's mission statement.
However, there is room for commercial interest, that is the place where
ideas can be turned into reality, driven by the profit motive.
BTW, I still remember the @#*holes who wouldn't talk to me because I did
not buy my airplane from them.
Craig Payne
>When I first acquired my CJ6A there was no good way to get information. >The
>importers were somewhat closed-mouthed and not very forthcoming with >information
>when someone had a problem, especially if that person didn't buy his/her
>airplane from that importer. This sometimes left the person who purchased >one
>from a private party out in the cold. To help aleviate this problem and >to
>further the dissemination of information I asked Matt to create the >Yak-list
and
>I set up the CJ6 web site.
>
>...
>Discussion?
>
>
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Florida in the CJ |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Dabear wrote:
> Now, if any of them want a PR person, please let me know. I'm
> available but I'm not cheap.
But Al, if you go on the payroll you wont be able to post, cuz it would be
spam!! :>) Thanks for the ataboy. I guess your fired before your hired.
Always yakin,
Doug Sapp
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: availability and fragmentation of information: Red Star |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Drew Blahnick" <aapilot@adelphia.net>
Ok, on communication fragmentation:
I here ya on the communication, and keeping people together. I need to speak
to my friends out there on that and some other subjects.
No kidding guys, I hope everyone who reads this has an idea/or understanding
of the activities for our web site project for this community, much of
which aren't public until Feb 15th now. After leaving active duty, I wanted
to explore other pursuits and hobbies; for me it's airplanes, formation and
other tactical flying, history, art, technology, and business development.
I wanted to do something along these lines for this community, keep my brain
active on the 5 hour hops back and forth to New York, but it couldn't be for
the dollar, the passion is in airplanes, organizations, art, history, and
throwing big parties ;) The financials should be a positive effort, and
offset the incredible amount of time dedicated to the project.
That project was to bring a community together, military trainer, warbird,
sport and aerobatic - jet to prop, and everything in-between, and without
losing focus on any one member of the community - not easy!
Over the last 14 months, well over a 1000 hours have been spent on All Red
Star and several thousand dollars. The Red Star event helped with some of
this financial burden, and I was pleased to hear those who attended felt it
was worth the event fee (see red ball - white ball discussion below). I've
saved thousands by spending untrackable hours in front of my desk designing
artwork, web pages and making more phone calls than I could ever count. And
yes, some times it seems things take a long time to develop, that the
concept is delivered and we wait impatiently for the substance. I can't
help you there, when it's out you can improve on it, add to it, change it;
it's built for that very purpose.
It's a real challenge to make something that brings a community of
individuals and different aircraft together, while not diluting their
specific needs. But that's been the driving goal of this project. Another
goal from day one of Red Stars development concerns the cost of these
efforts, I think this is important for you to hear: Imagine you have a Red
Billiard Ball in one hand and a White Billiard Ball in the other, if you
played in the Red Star Crud tournament, you might be able to picture this,
well when it comes to you all, and every pilot, aircraft owner, enthusiast,
vendor, supplier or sponsor in this community, that red ball is the product
(event, website services, logo shirt, whatever); it's what you get out of
it. What that product costs, that's the white ball. My goal, from
spear-heading Red Star to building www.allredstar.com is that damn Red Ball
better be three times the size as the White Ball. I can't give this
community anymore not-for-profit philosophy than that, and yes, we are knee
deep in the qualified not-for-profit process (not as fun as flying a
cloverleaf !). By the way, you will see the following statement requesting
your altruism on the web, Feb 15th: The one way we keep costs down is to
ask people who attend a Red Star event or visit the web site, is to always
A) have a good time and B) be a volunteer, volunteer to instruct, help,
teach, share and contribute, for 10 times the effort has gone on behind the
scenes to provide that platform, or that really good time.
I really like what this list (yak list) can do, and remember that guy who
said such tasteless things about Fred after his death? I'm glad this list
was here to bear witness to that exchange; perhaps that person will remember
in the future that in death, a mans entire life is a record, not simply the
singular event you choose or were present to bear witness to; and a
community with values demands that of others. That seemed to shine through
because of this forum. This concept is a great forum for the exchange of
information to help, share and teach. I have no intention of removing that
concept in the community, I think you will see this project does the
opposite.
And I also want to recognize Brian lloyds volunteer work on setting up this
list in the beginning and he was also pivotal in helping get the first Red
Star event going to include a few twin engine flights to help me site survey
California locations, not a cheap form of transpo! I owe ya one still...
The web project we are pushing for a Feb 15th opening has from the beginning
stressed an on line magazine format where anyone can be the editor, and we
have that technology built in, it works quite well. For a reasonable cost
Absolute Internet Solutions in Torrance CA has provided state of the art
communication technology; as long as we don't have a fire at the server, the
chat program allows immediate, real time communication, no-updating delay,
something like AOL. And the BBS has a jet and prop division (any divisions
can be made, but to start it's as general and all-inclusive as possible, we
go from there). You may not use all these features, but since it
contributes to the over-all goal of the project, it will be there. Again,
the idea of the site is to bring the parts of the community of aviators and
aircraft owners together; we'll just have to wait and see how well the
objectives have been met. And if it needs changing, you can change it.
Thanks folks,
Drew Allen Blahnick
All Red Star
310.386.9181
www.allredstar.com
"Communism: Lousy Politics - Great Airplanes"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian@lloyd.com>
Subject: Yak-List: availability and fragmentation of information
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
> When I first acquired my CJ6A there was no good way to get information.
The
> importers were somewhat closed-mouthed and not very forthcoming with
information
> when someone had a problem, especially if that person didn't buy his/her
> airplane from that importer. This sometimes left the person who purchased
one
> from a private party out in the cold. To help aleviate this problem and
to
> further the dissemination of information I asked Matt to create the
Yak-list and
> I set up the CJ6 web site.
>
> Now the CJ6A and Yak aircraft have become more popular and more
information is
> available. You can get on the Yak-list, ask a question, and get an
answer.
> Sometimes that answer is even correct. Sometimes the answer is
accompanied by a
> detailed insight into an individual's personal philosophy. Sometimes the
> response is totally information-content free. But what the heck, that is
part
> of being in a community.
>
> But now I see others talking about creating web sites, chat rooms, and
web-based
> threaded messaging systems (sometimes called a BBS) independent of the
yak-list
> or YPA. My concern is that if many of these sites are created we are
going to
> fragment the sources of information and conversation, and that it will
become
> difficult to know where to ask questions or go for information. If the
site or
> sites are for-profit organizations and the operators get it into their
heads
> that the information has monetary value I fear we will go back to what we
had in
> the beginning.
>
> Unfortunately I have done a poor job of keeping the information on the CJ6
web
> site up-to-date so I can certainly see the desire for something more
responsive.
> Also we need something equivalent for the Yak aircraft, i.e. on-line
> information references. It has to be some place where there are cash-flow
and
> human resources to maintain the information. Frankly, I think that the
best
> place to maintain this information is within the YPA since it has
structure and
> our dues can support the ecumenical distribution of information without
concern
> for someone's profit motive getting in the way. Also, the YPA as a formal
> corporate entity provides a reasonable liability buffer should someone
claim
> that the information they received resulted in injury. The YPA shields
> information providers from frivolous lawsuits and no one is likely to sue
the
> YPA since it really doesn't have any assets.
>
> Regardless, there will undoubtedly be multiple sources of information. I
would
> like to see a concerted effort to cross-link the web sites so that someone
going
> to one site will be able to navigate to the others in their search for
information.
>
> Discussion?
>
> (BTW, if someone wants to take over the CJ6.org web site and will maintain
it, I
> will be happy to transfer the domain and content to him/her/it. Certainly
it
> would make sense for the YPA to maintain that.)
>
> --
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | availability and fragmentation of information |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Robert Mortara" <robmortara@robinhill.com>
I think is would be a good idea to link all the websites togeather. May be
only 1 bbs or chat room.
I have the domain www.cj-6.com which I posted some information about my CJ
for my friends who are all ways asking about my Chinese plane. As the other
sites get up and running I will put links on my site. As I get more time I
will add to the site.
Message 7
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| Subject: | availability and fragmentation of information: Red Star |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
Drew,
I think that what you have, and continue to do, is great. Thanks for all the
hard work.
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Drew Blahnick
Subject: Re: Yak-List: availability and fragmentation of information:
Red Star
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Drew Blahnick" <aapilot@adelphia.net>
Ok, on communication fragmentation:
I here ya on the communication, and keeping people together. I need to speak
to my friends out there on that and some other subjects.
No kidding guys, I hope everyone who reads this has an idea/or understanding
of the activities for our web site project for this community, much of
which aren't public until Feb 15th now. After leaving active duty, I wanted
to explore other pursuits and hobbies; for me it's airplanes, formation and
other tactical flying, history, art, technology, and business development.
I wanted to do something along these lines for this community, keep my brain
active on the 5 hour hops back and forth to New York, but it couldn't be for
the dollar, the passion is in airplanes, organizations, art, history, and
throwing big parties ;) The financials should be a positive effort, and
offset the incredible amount of time dedicated to the project.
That project was to bring a community together, military trainer, warbird,
sport and aerobatic - jet to prop, and everything in-between, and without
losing focus on any one member of the community - not easy!
Over the last 14 months, well over a 1000 hours have been spent on All Red
Star and several thousand dollars. The Red Star event helped with some of
this financial burden, and I was pleased to hear those who attended felt it
was worth the event fee (see red ball - white ball discussion below). I've
saved thousands by spending untrackable hours in front of my desk designing
artwork, web pages and making more phone calls than I could ever count. And
yes, some times it seems things take a long time to develop, that the
concept is delivered and we wait impatiently for the substance. I can't
help you there, when it's out you can improve on it, add to it, change it;
it's built for that very purpose.
It's a real challenge to make something that brings a community of
individuals and different aircraft together, while not diluting their
specific needs. But that's been the driving goal of this project. Another
goal from day one of Red Stars development concerns the cost of these
efforts, I think this is important for you to hear: Imagine you have a Red
Billiard Ball in one hand and a White Billiard Ball in the other, if you
played in the Red Star Crud tournament, you might be able to picture this,
well when it comes to you all, and every pilot, aircraft owner, enthusiast,
vendor, supplier or sponsor in this community, that red ball is the product
(event, website services, logo shirt, whatever); it's what you get out of
it. What that product costs, that's the white ball. My goal, from
spear-heading Red Star to building www.allredstar.com is that damn Red Ball
better be three times the size as the White Ball. I can't give this
community anymore not-for-profit philosophy than that, and yes, we are knee
deep in the qualified not-for-profit process (not as fun as flying a
cloverleaf !). By the way, you will see the following statement requesting
your altruism on the web, Feb 15th: The one way we keep costs down is to
ask people who attend a Red Star event or visit the web site, is to always
A) have a good time and B) be a volunteer, volunteer to instruct, help,
teach, share and contribute, for 10 times the effort has gone on behind the
scenes to provide that platform, or that really good time.
I really like what this list (yak list) can do, and remember that guy who
said such tasteless things about Fred after his death? I'm glad this list
was here to bear witness to that exchange; perhaps that person will remember
in the future that in death, a mans entire life is a record, not simply the
singular event you choose or were present to bear witness to; and a
community with values demands that of others. That seemed to shine through
because of this forum. This concept is a great forum for the exchange of
information to help, share and teach. I have no intention of removing that
concept in the community, I think you will see this project does the
opposite.
And I also want to recognize Brian lloyds volunteer work on setting up this
list in the beginning and he was also pivotal in helping get the first Red
Star event going to include a few twin engine flights to help me site survey
California locations, not a cheap form of transpo! I owe ya one still...
The web project we are pushing for a Feb 15th opening has from the beginning
stressed an on line magazine format where anyone can be the editor, and we
have that technology built in, it works quite well. For a reasonable cost
Absolute Internet Solutions in Torrance CA has provided state of the art
communication technology; as long as we don't have a fire at the server, the
chat program allows immediate, real time communication, no-updating delay,
something like AOL. And the BBS has a jet and prop division (any divisions
can be made, but to start it's as general and all-inclusive as possible, we
go from there). You may not use all these features, but since it
contributes to the over-all goal of the project, it will be there. Again,
the idea of the site is to bring the parts of the community of aviators and
aircraft owners together; we'll just have to wait and see how well the
objectives have been met. And if it needs changing, you can change it.
Thanks folks,
Drew Allen Blahnick
All Red Star
310.386.9181
www.allredstar.com
"Communism: Lousy Politics - Great Airplanes"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian@lloyd.com>
Subject: Yak-List: availability and fragmentation of information
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
> When I first acquired my CJ6A there was no good way to get information.
The
> importers were somewhat closed-mouthed and not very forthcoming with
information
> when someone had a problem, especially if that person didn't buy his/her
> airplane from that importer. This sometimes left the person who purchased
one
> from a private party out in the cold. To help aleviate this problem and
to
> further the dissemination of information I asked Matt to create the
Yak-list and
> I set up the CJ6 web site.
>
> Now the CJ6A and Yak aircraft have become more popular and more
information is
> available. You can get on the Yak-list, ask a question, and get an
answer.
> Sometimes that answer is even correct. Sometimes the answer is
accompanied by a
> detailed insight into an individual's personal philosophy. Sometimes the
> response is totally information-content free. But what the heck, that is
part
> of being in a community.
>
> But now I see others talking about creating web sites, chat rooms, and
web-based
> threaded messaging systems (sometimes called a BBS) independent of the
yak-list
> or YPA. My concern is that if many of these sites are created we are
going to
> fragment the sources of information and conversation, and that it will
become
> difficult to know where to ask questions or go for information. If the
site or
> sites are for-profit organizations and the operators get it into their
heads
> that the information has monetary value I fear we will go back to what we
had in
> the beginning.
>
> Unfortunately I have done a poor job of keeping the information on the CJ6
web
> site up-to-date so I can certainly see the desire for something more
responsive.
> Also we need something equivalent for the Yak aircraft, i.e. on-line
> information references. It has to be some place where there are cash-flow
and
> human resources to maintain the information. Frankly, I think that the
best
> place to maintain this information is within the YPA since it has
structure and
> our dues can support the ecumenical distribution of information without
concern
> for someone's profit motive getting in the way. Also, the YPA as a formal
> corporate entity provides a reasonable liability buffer should someone
claim
> that the information they received resulted in injury. The YPA shields
> information providers from frivolous lawsuits and no one is likely to sue
the
> YPA since it really doesn't have any assets.
>
> Regardless, there will undoubtedly be multiple sources of information. I
would
> like to see a concerted effort to cross-link the web sites so that someone
going
> to one site will be able to navigate to the others in their search for
information.
>
> Discussion?
>
> (BTW, if someone wants to take over the CJ6.org web site and will maintain
it, I
> will be happy to transfer the domain and content to him/her/it. Certainly
it
> would make sense for the YPA to maintain that.)
>
> --
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: availability and fragmentation of information: Red Star |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Drew Blahnick" <aapilot@adelphia.net>
Thanks Gus, I needed that about now.
Drew Allen Blahnick
All Red Stars
310.386.9181
www.allredstar.com
"Communism: Lousy Politics - Great Airplanes"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gus Fraser" <fraseg@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: availability and fragmentation of information: Red
Star
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
>
> Drew,
> I think that what you have, and continue to do, is great. Thanks for all
the
> hard work.
>
> Gus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Drew Blahnick
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: availability and fragmentation of information:
> Red Star
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Drew Blahnick" <aapilot@adelphia.net>
>
> Ok, on communication fragmentation:
>
> I here ya on the communication, and keeping people together. I need to
speak
> to my friends out there on that and some other subjects.
>
> No kidding guys, I hope everyone who reads this has an idea/or
understanding
> of the activities for our web site project for this community, much of
> which aren't public until Feb 15th now. After leaving active duty, I
wanted
> to explore other pursuits and hobbies; for me it's airplanes, formation
and
> other tactical flying, history, art, technology, and business development.
> I wanted to do something along these lines for this community, keep my
brain
> active on the 5 hour hops back and forth to New York, but it couldn't be
for
> the dollar, the passion is in airplanes, organizations, art, history, and
> throwing big parties ;) The financials should be a positive effort, and
> offset the incredible amount of time dedicated to the project.
>
> That project was to bring a community together, military trainer, warbird,
> sport and aerobatic - jet to prop, and everything in-between, and without
> losing focus on any one member of the community - not easy!
>
> Over the last 14 months, well over a 1000 hours have been spent on All Red
> Star and several thousand dollars. The Red Star event helped with some of
> this financial burden, and I was pleased to hear those who attended felt
it
> was worth the event fee (see red ball - white ball discussion below). I've
> saved thousands by spending untrackable hours in front of my desk
designing
> artwork, web pages and making more phone calls than I could ever count.
And
> yes, some times it seems things take a long time to develop, that the
> concept is delivered and we wait impatiently for the substance. I can't
> help you there, when it's out you can improve on it, add to it, change it;
> it's built for that very purpose.
>
> It's a real challenge to make something that brings a community of
> individuals and different aircraft together, while not diluting their
> specific needs. But that's been the driving goal of this project.
Another
> goal from day one of Red Stars development concerns the cost of these
> efforts, I think this is important for you to hear: Imagine you have a
Red
> Billiard Ball in one hand and a White Billiard Ball in the other, if you
> played in the Red Star Crud tournament, you might be able to picture this,
> well when it comes to you all, and every pilot, aircraft owner,
enthusiast,
> vendor, supplier or sponsor in this community, that red ball is the
product
> (event, website services, logo shirt, whatever); it's what you get out of
> it. What that product costs, that's the white ball. My goal, from
> spear-heading Red Star to building www.allredstar.com is that damn Red
Ball
> better be three times the size as the White Ball. I can't give this
> community anymore not-for-profit philosophy than that, and yes, we are
knee
> deep in the qualified not-for-profit process (not as fun as flying a
> cloverleaf !). By the way, you will see the following statement
requesting
> your altruism on the web, Feb 15th: The one way we keep costs down is to
> ask people who attend a Red Star event or visit the web site, is to always
> A) have a good time and B) be a volunteer, volunteer to instruct, help,
> teach, share and contribute, for 10 times the effort has gone on behind
the
> scenes to provide that platform, or that really good time.
>
> I really like what this list (yak list) can do, and remember that guy who
> said such tasteless things about Fred after his death? I'm glad this list
> was here to bear witness to that exchange; perhaps that person will
remember
> in the future that in death, a mans entire life is a record, not simply
the
> singular event you choose or were present to bear witness to; and a
> community with values demands that of others. That seemed to shine
through
> because of this forum. This concept is a great forum for the exchange of
> information to help, share and teach. I have no intention of removing that
> concept in the community, I think you will see this project does the
> opposite.
>
> And I also want to recognize Brian lloyds volunteer work on setting up
this
> list in the beginning and he was also pivotal in helping get the first Red
> Star event going to include a few twin engine flights to help me site
survey
> California locations, not a cheap form of transpo! I owe ya one still...
>
> The web project we are pushing for a Feb 15th opening has from the
beginning
> stressed an on line magazine format where anyone can be the editor, and we
> have that technology built in, it works quite well. For a reasonable cost
> Absolute Internet Solutions in Torrance CA has provided state of the art
> communication technology; as long as we don't have a fire at the server,
the
> chat program allows immediate, real time communication, no-updating delay,
> something like AOL. And the BBS has a jet and prop division (any divisions
> can be made, but to start it's as general and all-inclusive as possible,
we
> go from there). You may not use all these features, but since it
> contributes to the over-all goal of the project, it will be there. Again,
> the idea of the site is to bring the parts of the community of aviators
and
> aircraft owners together; we'll just have to wait and see how well the
> objectives have been met. And if it needs changing, you can change it.
>
> Thanks folks,
>
>
> Drew Allen Blahnick
> All Red Star
> 310.386.9181
> www.allredstar.com
> "Communism: Lousy Politics - Great Airplanes"
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian@lloyd.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: availability and fragmentation of information
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
> >
> > When I first acquired my CJ6A there was no good way to get information.
> The
> > importers were somewhat closed-mouthed and not very forthcoming with
> information
> > when someone had a problem, especially if that person didn't buy his/her
> > airplane from that importer. This sometimes left the person who
purchased
> one
> > from a private party out in the cold. To help aleviate this problem
and
> to
> > further the dissemination of information I asked Matt to create the
> Yak-list and
> > I set up the CJ6 web site.
> >
> > Now the CJ6A and Yak aircraft have become more popular and more
> information is
> > available. You can get on the Yak-list, ask a question, and get an
> answer.
> > Sometimes that answer is even correct. Sometimes the answer is
> accompanied by a
> > detailed insight into an individual's personal philosophy. Sometimes
the
> > response is totally information-content free. But what the heck, that
is
> part
> > of being in a community.
> >
> > But now I see others talking about creating web sites, chat rooms, and
> web-based
> > threaded messaging systems (sometimes called a BBS) independent of the
> yak-list
> > or YPA. My concern is that if many of these sites are created we are
> going to
> > fragment the sources of information and conversation, and that it will
> become
> > difficult to know where to ask questions or go for information. If the
> site or
> > sites are for-profit organizations and the operators get it into their
> heads
> > that the information has monetary value I fear we will go back to what
we
> had in
> > the beginning.
> >
> > Unfortunately I have done a poor job of keeping the information on the
CJ6
> web
> > site up-to-date so I can certainly see the desire for something more
> responsive.
> > Also we need something equivalent for the Yak aircraft, i.e. on-line
> > information references. It has to be some place where there are
cash-flow
> and
> > human resources to maintain the information. Frankly, I think that the
> best
> > place to maintain this information is within the YPA since it has
> structure and
> > our dues can support the ecumenical distribution of information without
> concern
> > for someone's profit motive getting in the way. Also, the YPA as a
formal
> > corporate entity provides a reasonable liability buffer should someone
> claim
> > that the information they received resulted in injury. The YPA shields
> > information providers from frivolous lawsuits and no one is likely to
sue
> the
> > YPA since it really doesn't have any assets.
> >
> > Regardless, there will undoubtedly be multiple sources of information.
I
> would
> > like to see a concerted effort to cross-link the web sites so that
someone
> going
> > to one site will be able to navigate to the others in their search for
> information.
> >
> > Discussion?
> >
> > (BTW, if someone wants to take over the CJ6.org web site and will
maintain
> it, I
> > will be happy to transfer the domain and content to him/her/it.
Certainly
> it
> > would make sense for the YPA to maintain that.)
> >
> > --
> >
> > Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
> > brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> > +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
> >
> >
>
>
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
A reminder folks that Sun & Fun is now less than 2 month away.
Those who are planning to come and hang out with us, want to make sure that
you get your room reservation in.
We are planning to stay at the :
Howard Johnson in Winter Heaven (863-294-7321)
A group rate is setup under the Yak Pilots group.
We will be operating out of BOW, Bartow Municipal located about 6 south of
the hotel and about 10 ESE of LAL.
I plan on arriving the afternoon of April 1 to set up things.
Those that are planning to come please let me know.
I'd like to get a list of Wing rated pilot who are up to do some instruction
and act as safety pilots.
We don't have the services of Rus this year to wip people into flights, so
you may have me or SOMEONE ELSE ? doing the honors. Like to get a leg up on
this.
I'd like to get list of those also who are coming for the formation training.
When you send me the info, please include, your aviation background,
tickets, total time, time in type, etc. This will give us an idea of where
to start with you.
Also you first timers, the formation manual can be down loaded from the
Yakpilots.org web site for studying BEFORE you get there. Also all the
requirements for Wing Man write off. Please check it out.
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710@aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-503-9820cell
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
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