Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:24 AM - Re: CJ speed (Brian Lloyd)
2. 05:54 AM - CJ Gear Speed (cpayne@mc.net)
3. 07:56 AM - Yak / Nanchang Session at National Warbird Operator Conference this month (Tom Johnson)
4. 12:17 PM - YPA & All Red Star (MFilucci@aol.com)
5. 02:58 PM - B & C Alternator...again... (Jeff Linebaugh)
6. 04:34 PM - Re: YPA & All Red Star (Craig Payne)
7. 04:56 PM - Re: YPA & All Red Star (cjpilot710@aol.com)
8. 05:26 PM - YPA & All Red Star (MFilucci@aol.com)
9. 05:39 PM - YPA & All Red Star (MFilucci@aol.com)
10. 06:51 PM - Re: YPA & All Red Star (Drew Blahnick)
11. 08:28 PM - Re: YPA & All Red Star (cjpilot710@aol.com)
Message 1
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Mark Jefferies wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Jefferies" <mark@yakuk.com>
>
> CJ6 owners!!
>
> can someone advise me of the speed difference between gear up and gear down.
> IOW when at cruise and the gear is lowered how much speed reduction occurs.
> Accurate figures through test would be really appreciated. Gear up____ gear
> down____ no power change.
It depends on the other configuration of the aiplane and the IAS you start with.
I know the speed decrease from drag reduction in landing patter if that will
help you.
From flying formation I find that a consistent pattern entry helps a lot. I
try to enter the overhead at about 150 kts (275 kph) IAS from a very slight
dive. I am normally carrying about 25" (635 mm) MAP and 2000 RPM. In the break
the 2G level 180 degree turn will bleed off the speed to 130 kts (240 kph), gear
speed. The gear comes down as I roll level and I reduce to 20" (500 mm) MAP.
Maintaining level flight in this configuration results in a speed reduction to
108 kts (200 kph) which is flap speed. This also happens just about the time
you come abeam the touchdown point if you have initiated the pitch out about
1500' down the runway. At that point the flaps come down and I reduce the MAP
to 15" (380 mm). As soon as the flaps are down I start my turn to final and
maintain 80 kts. I can't give you speed changes with just gear deployment since
I combine several factors to get the performance I am seeking.
But I do a drag demonstration with the gear and flaps prior to doing simulated
emergency landing practice in the pattern. I take the student up and we reduce
the power to idle and establish a steady-state descent at 80 kts. We then check
the rate-of-descent. Once we have established the rate for a clean airplane I
have the student extend the gear. We then reestablish the glide at 80 kts and
check RoD again. We repeat the process with the gear up, flaps down, and then
again with both gear and flaps down. It very quickly gets the point across that
the flaps generate a lot more drag than the gear and that you are unlikely to
make your touchdown point if you have the flaps down with the power off.
I also teach that once you have put the gear down, leave them down since at 80
kts they don't generate that much more drag and you are far more likely to screw
up and leave the gear up if you get busy with an emergency landing and try to
save gear deployment for the last moment.
Go out and try the drag demo for yourself. Just climb up to a comfortable
altitude first to give yourself plenty of time to clean up and fly out. Be sure
to use the gill louvers to keep the engine warm. Open the throttle periodically
to clear the engine so that you still have good throttle response when you need
it.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 2
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@mc.net
Mark,
I'm not sure what your question is about but my IAS with gear down and
70% cruise power is about 115-120 KIAS vs about 150 KIAS gear up at the
same power setting. I can cruise *much* faster at higher settings
but I usually lower my gear at or below 120 KIAS as higher speeds will
tear at the gear sealing strips I installed. In fact I favor 100 KIAS but
it is difficult to bleed off speed in pattern entry, hence, the overhead
break as Brian suggested.
Craig Payne
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Mark Jefferies wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Jefferies" <mark@yakuk.com>
>
> CJ6 owners!!
>
> can someone advise me of the speed difference between gear up and gear down.
> IOW when at cruise and the gear is lowered how much speed reduction occurs.
> Accurate figures through test would be really appreciated. Gear up____ gear
> down____ no power change.
It depends on the other configuration of the aiplane and the IAS you start with.
I know the speed decrease from drag reduction in landing patter if that will
help you.
From flying formation I find that a consistent pattern entry helps a lot. I
try to enter the overhead at about 150 kts (275 kph) IAS from a very slight
dive. I am normally carrying about 25" (635 mm) MAP and 2000 RPM. In the break
the 2G level 180 degree turn will bleed off the speed to 130 kts (240 kph), gear
speed.
>
>
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 3
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| Subject: | Yak / Nanchang Session at National Warbird Operator Conference |
this month
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
Dear fellow Yak / CJ pilots, owners and supporters:
Cannon Aviation Insurance is a sponsor and Conference Director for the National
Warbird Operator Conference here in Phoenix February 27 to March 2, 2003 at the
Sheraton Mesa, Arizona. ( http://www.nwoc.homestead.com/ )
This year there will be a breakout session to discuss Yak / Nanchang aircraft issues
with those interested. In previous years there has not been good representation
for our type at the conference and the conference was not setup to support
our type, except under the slightly less flattering "Other" category.
This has changed. As a Yak owner under the employ of the Conference Director,
I have volunteered to facilitate the first annual breakout session.
Unfortunately we won't have a private room this year, so we will have to meet in
the lobby of the hotel and make do. But next year we will have a private room
of our own and appropriate representation from the group.
I realize this announcement is both too little and too late, but after reviewing
with Mike Filucci we have agreed that it is worth making an announcement at
the conference and to the users by email. We will gauge interest in the conference
this year, and have a formal program setup for next year.
I'm glad to provide additional details and suggestions for topics.
************************************
Tom Johnson
1983 Yak 52, N524TJ
Senior Account Executive
Cannon Aviation Insurance
Tel: 800-851-2997
Fax: 480-951-1455
Cell: 602-628-2701
Message 4
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| Subject: | YPA & All Red Star |
--> Yak-List message posted by: MFilucci@aol.com
Drew Blahnick and I have fielded a number of questions lately about the
relationship between the Yak Pilots Association and All Red Star. The two
organizations are on a parallel course with the common goal of supporting the
warbird community. The organizations are structured differently, but share
key functions-the YPA is a nonprofit, educational organization and signatory
to F.A.S.T., whereas All Red Star (Red Stars, Inc.) is a C corporation with a
strong brand and marketing capability that focuses on flight- safety
training, event production, and web-based communication.
Because the two organizations have a common goal and because each has unique
capabilities, we are able to collaborate with and support one another to the
benefit of all warbird drivers. An example of this collaborative effort is
the upcoming All Red Star gathering at Castle. Cannon Aviation Insurance has
very generously contributed $1500.00 to YPA-sponsored events this
year-$500.00 of this is earmarked for the Castle clinic. The YPA will conduct
the F.A.S.T. ground school, provide instructors and Check Pilots, and provide
F.A.S.T. certification for those who successfully complete the training. Skip
Slyfield will likely contribute his LSO talents to the "carrier landing"
event as well. All Red Star will host the event and handle all the logistical
support, marketing, and recruitment of additional sponsors-a monumental task.
This year, just as with the 2002 event, All Red Star is also spearheading and
managing a wide range of training and safety programs that further benefit
and expand our community of experimental/exhibition aircraft. The end result
will be a more valuable training experience, heavily fortified with fun and
camaraderie for all participants, at a very reasonable cost.
"Reasonable cost" is the operative phrase here because we've been looking at
training programs offered by other organizations and have been surprised by
the cost-the Bonanza Society charges approximately $2000.00 for a three-day
clinic, and that does not include the participants' logistical costs. Warbird
drivers in Europe report that comparable fly-ins there can cost close to
$1500.00 (US).
One of the keys to our future as warbird operators is going to be in the
development of the apparatus to fund programs that continue to benefit our
members. The continuing joint effort between the YPA and All Red Star
provides the means to develop just such a fund-generating apparatus. This
will allow us to expand and develop our programs and still keep costs at an
affordable level. A very successful model for this type of symbiotic
relationship already exists between the Aircraft Owners and Pilots
Association (AOPA) and the nonprofit Air Safety Foundation (ASF). The ASF is
able to produce and offer a variety of safety programs, including CFI
refresher courses-all at a very reasonable cost.
As we move forward with our plans to develop additional training and support
programs for our members, you will continue to see a collaborative effort
between the YPA and All Red Star to deliver the most bang for your buck.
Fly safe, fly smart,
Mike Filucci and Drew Blahnick
Message 5
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| Subject: | B & C Alternator...again... |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jeff Linebaugh" <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
Well, seems the B & C Alternator that I tried to promote for a friend a
couple of weeks ago is available again.
It is a 10 AMP B & C Alternator for the M14P. New- in the box. He wants
$475 which is well below B&Cs retail price.
Contact Gary Austin directly at Retro Aviation. (901) 353-1040.
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: YPA & All Red Star |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Craig Payne <cpayne@mc.net>
Mike,
Thanks for clarity on this issue, the relationship is something that I
have wondered about and you have now laid out the framework for a good
operating relationship.
That being said, I might point out a developing opportunity that I have
urged our local warbird squadron to address but I haven't been too
persuasive so far: numerous communities in my area at least, have a
desire for military type flyovers for their public events and have the
budget to do so. An example; my own hometown paid $500 per airplane for
flyovers, that's $2K for a 4-ship making a couple of passes but none of
participants had an appropriate business to provide this. Solution: our
local air museum (I'm an officer in) accepted a donation from the
pilot's as a 501c3 and issued letters of donation for tax purposes.
I believe that the warbird community could effectively market their
formation skills and hardware, recoup their direct expenses, have fun,
and make money for 501c3 orgs that turn around and host events to meet
their mission goals and create more opportunity for fun.
No one gets rich but the edge on costs is blunted and everyone has fun.
Craig Payne
MFilucci@aol.com wrote:
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: MFilucci@aol.com
>
> Drew Blahnick and I have fielded a number of questions lately about the
> relationship between the Yak Pilots Association and All Red Star. The two
> organizations are on a parallel course with the common goal of supporting the
> warbird community. The organizations are structured differently, but share
> key functions-the YPA is a nonprofit, educational organization and signatory
> to F.A.S.T., whereas All Red Star (Red Stars, Inc.) is a C corporation with a
> strong brand and marketing capability that focuses on flight- safety
> training, event production, and web-based communication.
>
> Because the two organizations have a common goal and because each has unique
> capabilities, we are able to collaborate with and support one another to the
> benefit of all warbird drivers.
>
....
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: YPA & All Red Star |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 2/12/2003 7:35:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, cpayne@mc.net
writes:
The CAF down here at Datona Beach, has contacts with a number of funeral
homes. Lately the WW2 vets are dying off (the nature of things) and the CAF
is often contacted to fly a Missing Man formation during a grave side
service. About $100.00 per aircraft that is donated right to our unit.
If the funeral homes, know that is available, they might be able to provide
that service at no cost to them, with the idea, that the vet's family would
not mind that cost knowing its a donation. Something to think about, and one
way to say goodby to those we owe a lot.
> Solution: our
> local air museum (I'm an officer in) accepted a donation from the
> pilot's as a 501c3 and issued letters of donation for tax purposes.
>
> I believe that the warbird community could effectively market their
> formation skills and hardware, recoup their direct expenses, have fun,
> and make money for 501c3 orgs that turn around and host events to meet
> their mission goals and create more opportunity for fun.
>
> No one gets rich but the edge on costs is blunted and everyone has fun.
>
> Craig Payne
>
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710@aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-503-9820cell
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
Message 8
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| Subject: | YPA & All Red Star |
--> Yak-List message posted by: MFilucci@aol.com
In a message dated 2/12/03 7:35:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, cpayne@mc.net
writes:
> I believe that the warbird community could effectively market their
> formation skills and hardware, recoup their direct expenses, have fun,
> and make money for 501c3 orgs that turn around and host events to meet
> their mission goals and create more opportunity for fun.
>
Craig,
You are right. There are many opportunities to showcase our aircraft and
those owner/pilots that do so should get paid. As we all know,
owning/operating a warbird costs real money. The marketing arm of All Red
Star is well suited to promoting the aircraft and the nonprofit YPA provides
a channel to "write off" the donation for the paying customer.
Mike
Message 9
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| Subject: | YPA & All Red Star |
--> Yak-List message posted by: MFilucci@aol.com
In a message dated 2/12/03 7:57:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,
cjpilot710@aol.com writes:
> If the funeral homes, know that is available, they might be able to provide
> that service at no cost to them, with the idea, that the vet's family would
>
> not mind that cost knowing its a donation. Something to think about, and
> one
> way to say goodby to those we owe a lot.
>
As long as we don't get the reputation of being ambulance chasers!
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: YPA & All Red Star |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Drew Blahnick" <aapilot@adelphia.net>
Folks,
Missing man formations are certainly a growing opportunity for our members
to serve their community. Our local aero-club here at my Air Force Base has
a team of T-34's with constant requests for this vital function.
I've been considering how to organize our national community to get the word
out. Here's where I would like to start, the set-up for step one will be
done tonight, since this is the time to do:
Step One:
When allredstar.com reopens, if you have, or are about to field, a missing
man formation team, please submit, through the sites "Submit Content" form,
your units point of contact, a team list and their fast/formation
qualifications, and the central airport that defines your area of
responsibility (AOR). We can collect this information in a database. The
web site has a section called "Squadron Operations", where we are advocating
the formation of local squadrons, I will link the Missing Man Team web page
there, since if you are flying often enough as a team, you have pretty much
formed your squadron by default (Squadron, Group, Hanger, etc.). This step
takes minimal effort. If the response is good (several teams from a few
regions), we will host an allredstar.com/missing_man_formation stand alone
advertising section designed for those who would like to enlist a team for
their funeral service, with team point of contact, non-profit donation
requirements, members training and qualifications, military service bios,
formation photos, etc.
Step Two:
At some time in the very near future, if we have a few teams registered, we
will determine advertising opportunities, by region, to the local and
national funeral service industry, churches, as well as government
facilities. The most cost effective advertising is you. Even without a
team, word of mouth and volunteer phone advertising by concerned members to
their local communities, funeral homes and churches, will effectively get
the word out. We can put a marketing document for Missing Man Formation
Services in PDF for you to download, print and post at your church or give
to local funeral homes, it will direct them to the web site where they can
choose such services.
Last year I advertised Mass Formation and Missing Man Training on Sunday, we
omitted the missing man due to time. This year let's stick to our guns, I
have the managing editor of Pilot Journal & Airplane Pilot Magazine and
several newspapers attending, this is photo I would like representing us;
let's hope this damn war is over with minimal casualties, and this year
let's make this a priority, low and loud over the Saturday banquet.
On another note:
When www.allredstar.com opens you will find:
1. Web pages that look like they need content, galleries that need pictures,
member rolls that need names: There's a reason for that, the site is member
driven, you supply that information right through the web by clicking on
"Submit Content", the form will guide you the rest of the way. If you
supplied me an article or picture in the past, it's probably posted, if not,
resubmit via "Submit Content" after we open, the information is saved on the
server, even I can't loose it now ;)
2. Me asking for feedback, especially on 56K download times and bug reports.
I've left out most flash, especially for you guys still using Internet
Explorer 1.0 (get 4.0 or later, live large), and if you are using Netscape
Navigator, god help you, after Microsoft beat them in the markets, they
picked up their crayons and left the party, you'll be lucky your computer
doesn't blow up.
3. If my USAF unit gets activated within days, Barry Hancock will be
actively updating the site, blame him ;)
Drew Allen Blahnick
All Red Stars
Office310-372-6328
Cell310-386-9181
www.allredstar.com
"Communism: Lousy Politics - Great Airplanes"
----- Original Message -----
From: <MFilucci@aol.com>
Subject: Yak-List: YPA & All Red Star
> --> Yak-List message posted by: MFilucci@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 2/12/03 7:35:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, cpayne@mc.net
> writes:
>
>
> > I believe that the warbird community could effectively market their
> > formation skills and hardware, recoup their direct expenses, have fun,
> > and make money for 501c3 orgs that turn around and host events to meet
> > their mission goals and create more opportunity for fun.
> >
>
> Craig,
>
> You are right. There are many opportunities to showcase our aircraft and
> those owner/pilots that do so should get paid. As we all know,
> owning/operating a warbird costs real money. The marketing arm of All Red
> Star is well suited to promoting the aircraft and the nonprofit YPA
provides
> a channel to "write off" the donation for the paying customer.
>
> Mike
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: YPA & All Red Star |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 2/12/2003 9:51:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
aapilot@adelphia.net writes:
>
> 3. If my USAF unit gets activated within days, Barry Hancock will be
> actively updating the site, blame him ;)
>
>
You an't called up yet?
Jim Goolsby
cjpilot710@aol.com
386-467-3313 voice
386-467-3193 fax
386-503-9820cell
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
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