---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 02/19/03: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:45 AM - ADF panel (Brian Lloyd) 2. 07:03 AM - Turbine Oil (Ernie) 3. 07:19 AM - YPA membership (MFilucci@aol.com) 4. 07:33 AM - Re: YPA membership (Brian Lloyd) 5. 07:35 AM - Re: YPA membership (Brian Lloyd) 6. 07:43 AM - Re: Re: Yak-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 02/17/03 (Mike Plecenik) 7. 07:51 AM - Re: Re: Yak-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 02/17/03 (Terry Calloway) 8. 09:39 AM - Re: YPA membership (Walt Fricke) 9. 09:40 AM - Re: YPA membership (Walt Fricke) 10. 09:48 AM - Re: Re: Yak-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 02/17/03 (Doug) 11. 09:49 AM - Re: YPA membership list on YPA website in PDF form: (Mark Schrick) 12. 11:12 AM - Re: YPA membership (A. Dennis Savarese) 13. 11:21 AM - YPA membership list on YPA website in PDF form (MFilucci@aol.com) 14. 12:06 PM - Re: YPA membership list on YPA website in PDF form (cpayne@mc.net) 15. 12:34 PM - M-14 Prop and Yak 18 spinner for sale (Patrick Scofield) 16. 12:56 PM - Re: Turbine Oil (FOUGAPILOT@aol.com) 17. 01:08 PM - Yak 52 electrical schematics (Tom Johnson) 18. 03:01 PM - Re: Turbine Oil (Ernie) 19. 03:23 PM - Re: Yak 52 electrical schematics (A. Dennis Savarese) 20. 05:54 PM - Re: YPA membership (Walt Fricke) 21. 06:01 PM - Re: YPA membership (A. Dennis Savarese) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:45:22 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Yak-List: ADF panel --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd Ernie wrote: > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" > > LOL, I wonder if Dzuz fasterners can be used instead of screws. No. They don't provide nearly the strength for the shear loads. (The skin is in tension there.) It is possible to build a structure around the hole to carry the loads around the skin at that point but it is easier and probably safer to leave things the way they are. -- Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201 brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802 +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:16 AM PST US From: "Ernie" Subject: Yak-List: Turbine Oil --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" This is aimed at you Jet guys out there. Does anyoneknow the exact specification for the ROYCO turbine Oil I should be using in my L-29. I have a sheet that says ROYCO SHELL 3 but the ROYCO distributor never heard of it. I'm currently using Exxon 2380 which is a bad thing in my engine. Ernie ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:16 AM PST US From: MFilucci@aol.com Subject: Yak-List: YPA membership --> Yak-List message posted by: MFilucci@aol.com Fellow YPA Members, Craig Payne is putting the final touches on the 2003 Yak Pilots Association membership directory. Last year a number of pilots were upset that they were not included in the directory when, in most cases, they simply had not renewed their membership in time for the publishing deadline. If you have not renewed your membership for 2003 and you are planning on doing so, I suggest you not procrastinate any longer. I will be sending the 2003 membership file to Craig next week. Regards, Mike ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:59 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: Yak-List: YPA membership --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd MFilucci@aol.com wrote: > not included in the directory when, in most cases, they simply had not > renewed their membership in time for the publishing deadline. I don't know if I am current. Could you check for me please? Also, would the YPA like to have the CJ6.org domain? I will give it to you if the documentation will remain on-line. If you are worried about liability I will keep it there myself. Doug Sapp has asked for cj6.com. I can split them and give that to him while YPA keeps cj6.org. -- Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201 brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802 +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:48 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: Yak-List: YPA membership --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd MFilucci@aol.com wrote: > not included in the directory when, in most cases, they simply had not > renewed their membership in time for the publishing deadline. I don't know if I am current. Could you check for me please? --Sorry, that was supposed to be a private message.-- -- Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201 brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802 +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:43 AM PST US From: "Mike Plecenik" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 02/17/03 --> Yak-List message posted by: "Mike Plecenik" My CJ arrived from China with Dzuz fasteners on the ADF access panel and on the panels for access to the rear of the instruments. The openings have no additional reinforcement as compared to my last CJ. Don't know how long they've been there but the panels have no holes for screws so, I'd guess quite a while. I have found no distortion in those areas. Panels in stressed skin requires special screws and, if the screws that were used in my last CJ are any indication, I would have to conclude that the skin doublers used in these areas are sufficient. BUT, I would not modify one with screws to this configuration. - Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernie" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 02/17/03 > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" > > LOL, I wonder if Dzuz fasterners can be used instead of screws. > > Ernie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 02/17/03 > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Skipsly@aol.com > > > > In a message dated 02/18/2003 3:59:50 AM Atlantic Standard Time, > > yak-list-digest@matronics.com writes: > > > > > > > I agree that its structural, I'm wondering if anyone has modified the > door to > > > where it maintains its structural integrity and can be opened and closed > > > easily. > > > > > > > Ernie, > > > > I seem to recall a CJ that had a door added to the ADF panel that rendered > it > > un-airworthy because it does, in fact, impact structural integrity. I > suggest > > you get an electric screwdriver... > > Sly > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:08 AM PST US From: "Terry Calloway" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 02/17/03 --> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry Calloway" Mike could you post some digital photos on the site http://www.matronics.com/photoshare tc --> Yak-List message posted by: "Mike Plecenik" My CJ arrived from China with Dzuz fasteners on the ADF access panel and on the panels for access to the rear of the instruments. The openings have no additional reinforcement as compared to my last CJ. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:39:31 AM PST US From: Walt Fricke Subject: Re: Yak-List: YPA membership --> Yak-List message posted by: Walt Fricke Is there someplace to check to see if we are current? I can never remember. tried to do it once on the paypal but got lost in the program and don't know if it took. I WANT TO BELONG! --- MFilucci@aol.com wrote: > --> Yak-List message posted by: MFilucci@aol.com > > Fellow YPA Members, > > Craig Payne is putting the final touches on the 2003 > Yak Pilots Association > membership directory. Last year a number of pilots > were upset that they were > not included in the directory when, in most cases, > they simply had not > renewed their membership in time for the publishing > deadline. If you have not > renewed your membership for 2003 and you are > planning on doing so, I suggest > you not procrastinate any longer. I will be sending > the 2003 membership file > to Craig next week. > > Regards, > > Mike > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:40:32 AM PST US From: Walt Fricke Subject: Re: Yak-List: YPA membership --> Yak-List message posted by: Walt Fricke shoot! didn't mean to make that last post public. Srooy for the static. --- MFilucci@aol.com wrote: > --> Yak-List message posted by: MFilucci@aol.com > > Fellow YPA Members, > > Craig Payne is putting the final touches on the 2003 > Yak Pilots Association > membership directory. Last year a number of pilots > were upset that they were > not included in the directory when, in most cases, > they simply had not > renewed their membership in time for the publishing > deadline. If you have not > renewed your membership for 2003 and you are > planning on doing so, I suggest > you not procrastinate any longer. I will be sending > the 2003 membership file > to Craig next week. > > Regards, > > Mike > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:56 AM PST US From: "Doug" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 02/17/03 --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug" Ernie and all, Over the years this question of rather or not duz fasteners can be used in place of screws in these areas has popped up from time to time. I am not a structural engineer, I don't even play one on the list, but I firmly believe that the sub structure which reinforces the cut out, being a formed part with flanges, is made that way to replace the strength which was lost when the hole was cut. This same procedure is used when installing a camera hole in a aircraft. Check out the ADF cut out in the belly of the CJ6. This hole is in the middle of a formed skin, no alu door is used, only plexi, which has very little strength. If there were a problem with this type of a cut out being weak this area would be the first to show indications of loose or working rivets, skin buckling or sub members cracking due to the huge loads being placed on the tail cone. So personally I do not agree that duz fasteners absolutely cannot be substituted for the screw/nutplates. I have seen stock CJ6 aircraft which have nothing more that a Cessna style "oil door" snap lock type system on ALL panels. One was imported by Marcus Bates Sr. in the late 1980's. If I recall correctly it was a 70's or 80's model. I think I recall Randy Webb's Blue Cj6 having this style of inspection panel fasteners. Having said all this, would I go to the trouble to make the change NO! Do I feel that the aircraft is "less strong" with duz fasteners, yes probably but only very slightly, but will that lack of strength effect you adversely? Probably not unless your doing Yak 50 style aerobatics. But I would err to the safe side on this issue, and do agree with the previous post--buy yourself an electric screw driver. Always yakin, Doug Sapp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Plecenik" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 02/17/03 > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Mike Plecenik" > > My CJ arrived from China with Dzuz fasteners on the ADF access panel and on > the panels for access to the rear of the instruments. The openings have no > additional reinforcement as compared to my last CJ. Don't know how long > they've been there but the panels have no holes for screws so, I'd guess > quite a while. I have found no distortion in those areas. Panels in stressed > skin requires special screws and, if the screws that were used in my last CJ > are any indication, I would have to conclude that the skin doublers used in > these areas are sufficient. BUT, I would not modify one with screws to this > configuration. - Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ernie" > To: > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 02/17/03 > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" > > > > LOL, I wonder if Dzuz fasterners can be used instead of screws. > > > > Ernie > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 02/17/03 > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Skipsly@aol.com > > > > > > In a message dated 02/18/2003 3:59:50 AM Atlantic Standard Time, > > > yak-list-digest@matronics.com writes: > > > > > > > > > > I agree that its structural, I'm wondering if anyone has modified the > > door to > > > > where it maintains its structural integrity and can be opened and > closed > > > > easily. > > > > > > > > > > Ernie, > > > > > > I seem to recall a CJ that had a door added to the ADF panel that > rendered > > it > > > un-airworthy because it does, in fact, impact structural integrity. I > > suggest > > > you get an electric screwdriver... > > > Sly > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:34 AM PST US From: Mark Schrick Subject: RE: Yak-List: YPA membership list on YPA website in PDF form: SUGGESTION --> Yak-List message posted by: Mark Schrick SUGGESTION: Why could we not provide the YPA member list in PDF form to down load and update quarterly. This way everyone is up to date and can get involved with YPA members in there local area. This should not be hard to keep up each quarter and provide at least one phone number and email address if they wish to be published. Just a thought but it could raise attendance and group activities if available. Any thoughts on the subject??? Mark (SHREK) Schrick Yak owner 966 Wallace Drive San Jose, CA 95120 408) 391-6664 cell -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Walt Fricke Subject: Re: Yak-List: YPA membership --> Yak-List message posted by: Walt Fricke Is there someplace to check to see if we are current? I can never remember. tried to do it once on the paypal but got lost in the program and don't know if it took. I WANT TO BELONG! --- MFilucci@aol.com wrote: > --> Yak-List message posted by: MFilucci@aol.com > > Fellow YPA Members, > > Craig Payne is putting the final touches on the 2003 > Yak Pilots Association > membership directory. Last year a number of pilots > were upset that they were > not included in the directory when, in most cases, > they simply had not > renewed their membership in time for the publishing > deadline. If you have not > renewed your membership for 2003 and you are > planning on doing so, I suggest > you not procrastinate any longer. I will be sending > the 2003 membership file > to Craig next week. > > Regards, > > Mike > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:40 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: YPA membership --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" Walt, You are most welcome to use MY paypal account to find out if you're doing it correctly. Send me $30 and I'll let you know if you did it correctly. :-) Dennis Savarese ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walt Fricke" Subject: Re: Yak-List: YPA membership > --> Yak-List message posted by: Walt Fricke > > Is there someplace to check to see if we are current? > I can never remember. tried to do it once on the > paypal but got lost in the program and don't know if > it took. I WANT TO BELONG! > --- MFilucci@aol.com wrote: > > --> Yak-List message posted by: MFilucci@aol.com > > > > Fellow YPA Members, > > > > Craig Payne is putting the final touches on the 2003 > > Yak Pilots Association > > membership directory. Last year a number of pilots > > were upset that they were > > not included in the directory when, in most cases, > > they simply had not > > renewed their membership in time for the publishing > > deadline. If you have not > > renewed your membership for 2003 and you are > > planning on doing so, I suggest > > you not procrastinate any longer. I will be sending > > the 2003 membership file > > to Craig next week. > > > > Regards, > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > Contributions > > any other > > Forums. > > > > latest messages. > > List members. > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm > > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:21:01 AM PST US From: MFilucci@aol.com Subject: Yak-List: YPA membership list on YPA website in PDF form --> Yak-List message posted by: MFilucci@aol.com Mark and All, We expect to have an online database this year in addition to the hardcopy version. All members will have access and can do a search to track other members, etc. The online version will be updated as the membership data comes in so it will be the most up-to-date information possible. Mike ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:06:18 PM PST US From: cpayne@mc.net Subject: RE: Yak-List: YPA membership list on YPA website in PDF form --> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@mc.net Also note that the 5" x 8" hard copy edition is somewhere between palm and laptop size, requires no battery charge or A/C aux power, and requires no bootup time. Fits in your side rack and is not vibration sensitive while rated for g-forces beyond A/C limit. Specially designed to fit in the leg pocket of your Jet Jammies, and gets updated about as frequently as most web site databases! Craig Payne Mark and All, We expect to have an online database this year in addition to the hardcopy version. All members will have access and can do a search to track other members, etc. The online version will be updated as the membership data comes in so it will be the most up-to-date information possible. Mike ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:34:58 PM PST US Subject: Yak-List: M-14 Prop and Yak 18 spinner for sale From: Patrick Scofield --> Yak-List message posted by: Patrick Scofield Gents and Ladies, It looks like I am going to the three bladed prop on my M-14 powered, fire breathing, macho machine. Sooo, I will have a V -Period Prop and Yak18T Style Spinner available within about a month. If you are doing the big engine CJ-6 conversion, or need this for your Yak-52, this will set you up. Prop: V-Period, Purchased New from George Coy about 3 years ago, has approx. 200 hours TTSN $4,000 US, FOB Falcon Field (FFZ), Original shipping crate included. Spinner: Yak 18T type, Obtained new from Russia, Repainted in spiral pattern (Yellow and Black) Smooth finish has approx. 200 hours TTSN $1,400 US, FOB Falcon Field (FFZ) Both sold together for $5,250 US, FOB Falcon Field (FFZ) BTW I also have a JS-9 prop (original Nanchang prop) with about 600 hours TT if anyone is interested. Regards all, Patrick Scofield CJ-6P N4184W "Alien Invasion" L-39ZA N399ZA "Strong like Ox, Smart Like tractor!" (Old Russian Proverb) 2550 N. Thunderbird Circle, Suite 302 Hangar E Falcon Field Airport (FFZ) Mesa, AZ 85215 Phone: 480.968.4125 Mobile:480.227.4125 Fax: 480.968.4126 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:56:45 PM PST US From: FOUGAPILOT@aol.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Turbine Oil --> Yak-List message posted by: FOUGAPILOT@aol.com I have the same problem with my Fouga. It uses Shell 5 or Shell 7 Turbo oil. My Shell oil dealer here has never heard of either. They are manufactured in Europe. One Fouga dealer does have a stock. I would recommend you ask the people who sold you the airplane or any European owner/operator. Sorry I couldn't be of more help. Dan ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:20 PM PST US From: "Tom Johnson" Subject: Yak-List: Yak 52 electrical schematics --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" I'd like to discuss Yak 52 electrical system with somebody who knows it really well. I'm trying to locate some of the electrical busses, both power and ground in the aircraft. I've got the wiring diagrams, but have trouble figgering out what all the little symbols mean. Please email if you got the goods. ************************************ Tom Johnson 1983 Yak 52, N524TJ Senior Account Executive Cannon Aviation Insurance Tel: 800-851-2997 Fax: 480-951-1455 Cell: 602-628-2701 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:01:54 PM PST US From: "Ernie" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Turbine Oil --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" I found a source in PA. I require the Mil spec mineral oil. They carry the Royco 481 which should work in your Fouga also.. http://www.lanclube.com/aviation.html Ernie ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Yak-List: Turbine Oil > --> Yak-List message posted by: FOUGAPILOT@aol.com > > I have the same problem with my Fouga. It uses Shell 5 or Shell 7 Turbo oil. > My Shell oil dealer here has never heard of either. They are manufactured > in Europe. One Fouga dealer does have a stock. I would recommend you ask > the people who sold you the airplane or any European owner/operator. > > Sorry I couldn't be of more help. > > Dan > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:23:30 PM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak 52 electrical schematics --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" Tom, Give me a call at either my office or at home in the evening. I'm on central time. Hopefully I can assist. I'd be interested in hearing what kind of problem you have as well. Take care. Dennis Savarese 334-285-2141 office 334-546-8182 cell 334-285-6263 home ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Johnson" Subject: Yak-List: Yak 52 electrical schematics > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" > > I'd like to discuss Yak 52 electrical system with somebody who knows it really well. > > I'm trying to locate some of the electrical busses, both power and ground in the aircraft. > I've got the wiring diagrams, but have trouble figgering out what all the little symbols mean. > > Please email if you got the goods. > > ************************************ > Tom Johnson > 1983 Yak 52, N524TJ > Senior Account Executive > Cannon Aviation Insurance > Tel: 800-851-2997 > Fax: 480-951-1455 > Cell: 602-628-2701 > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:54:06 PM PST US From: Walt Fricke Subject: Re: Yak-List: YPA membership --> Yak-List message posted by: Walt Fricke Did you get it?? The field was too big for just 30.00 so I added some more zeroes. Call me when it gets there and I'll give you a fax number to send it back to. > Walt, > You are most welcome to use MY paypal account to > find out if you're doing it > correctly. Send me $30 and I'll let you know if you > did it correctly. :-) > Dennis Savarese > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:54 PM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: YPA membership --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" Nope! Didn't get it yet. Glad to hear you did add the necessary zeros though. The zeros MUST be in front of the decimal point though you know! Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walt Fricke" Subject: Re: Yak-List: YPA membership > --> Yak-List message posted by: Walt Fricke > > Did you get it?? The field was too big for just 30.00 > so I added some more zeroes. Call me when it gets > there and I'll give you a fax number to send it back > to. > > > Walt, > > You are most welcome to use MY paypal account to > > find out if you're doing it > > correctly. Send me $30 and I'll let you know if you > > did it correctly. :-) > > Dennis Savarese > > > >