Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:53 AM - Re: air show (Brian Lloyd)
2. 04:26 AM - Re: air show (Brian Lloyd)
3. 05:42 AM - Re: air show (Genzlinger, Reade)
4. 06:06 AM - Re: Air compressors (Jim Selby)
5. 06:28 AM - air show compensation (Mike McCoy)
6. 06:57 AM - Re: air show (cjpilot710@aol.com)
7. 07:08 AM - Re: air show compensation (Mike Plecenik)
8. 07:12 AM - Re: air show (cjpilot710@aol.com)
9. 07:20 AM - Re: air show compensation (cjpilot710@aol.com)
10. 07:20 AM - Who dun it? (Alan Cockrell)
11. 07:31 AM - Re: air show compensation (Ernie)
12. 08:05 AM - Re: air show compensation (Mike McCoy)
13. 08:46 AM - Air Show Money (cpayne@mc.net)
14. 12:31 PM - Updated parts list (Doug)
15. 03:18 PM - Re: air show (Frank Haertlein)
16. 04:21 PM - Re: air show (Ernie)
17. 04:33 PM - Re: Air compressors (Gus Fraser)
18. 05:25 PM - Re: air show (A. Dennis Savarese)
19. 05:38 PM - Re: air show (Craig Payne)
20. 05:42 PM - Re: air show (EyeBLS@aol.com)
21. 05:57 PM - Re: air show (Brian Lloyd)
22. 08:25 PM - Re: air show compensation (Richard Basiliere)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: e: Yak-List:air show |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Jon Boede wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@zoso.email.net>
>
> Well of course... it's only dangerous when you actually start flying it! :-)
>
> I mean, Good God, one of these things could actually descend from the air
> above and land on The People... and everyone would have to fill out More
> Paperwork.
This comes about by virtue of several things:
1. They don't know the difference between the words "could" and "would". After
all, there is only one letter difference!
2. They don't understand statistical probability.
3. They don't understand that we are all exposed to risk all the time. This
one strikes almost everyone, like the guy who drives down to buy plastic
sheeting and duct tape but doesn't wear his seatbelt, the person who takes LSD
but eats only organic food because the processed stuff can kill you, or the
person who is afraid of flying so drives his/her car instead.
> More Jaded By Every FAA Interaction,
"We have met the enemy and it is us."
Walt Kelly "Pogo"
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: e: Yak-List:air show |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Ernie wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
>
> Jim,
>
> Can you clarify on the commercial ticket requirement. I was under the
> understanding that you only need a commercial ticket for either taking
> passengers, or doing commercial work like ag spraying or hauling mail etc. I
> didnt think parking your plane on a ramp and getting some pro-rata fuel was
> enough grounds for requiring a comercial ticket.
It is not so much what the Commercial ticket says you can do so much as it is
what the private ticket says you can't do. In the most rigid interpretation of
the privileges of the private ticket the fuel you are given could be construed
as compensation. They make a big point of that at the OSH fly-in.
Now my take on it is I was going anyway so they shared my cost (permitted under
a private ticket) but just the thought of having to prove my point to an
administrative law judge because some brainless FAA person has his/her nose
out-of-joint that day causes me to err on the conservative side. And in case
someone thinks I am picking on just the FAA, I apply this to anyone in the
"business" of creating and enforcing administrative law. Heck, HR people in big
corporations are just as bad.
Just remember: you may be right but but they can still make your life miserable.
Remember Bob Hoover.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 3
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| Subject: | E: Yak-List:air show |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Genzlinger, Reade" <ReadeG@Cairnwood.com>
Rob:
Compensation aside, the Angel Flight org. is worth supporting regardless in
my humble opinion. Wings Field, Blue Bell, PA does a benefit each year for
AF and I've been able to attend for several years with my Yak-52. It's in
September and is very well organized - they invite not only antique/unusual
aircraft but also antique cars. They line the cars up between the planes
which makes the walk down each row very interesting. They offer the same
deal - free lunch to participants (which may be considered compensation as
noted in the other posts).
Reade Genzlinger
Cairnwood Cooperative Corporation
215.914.0370
215.790.6212 fax
readeg@cairnwood.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Mortara [mailto:robmortara@robinhill.com]
Subject: RE: Yak-List:air show
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Robert Mortara" <robmortara@robinhill.com>
I have been invited to display my CJ at Pennridge air show on June 14 2003 .
They are not offering very much. I have a pdf copy of the invitation
www.robinhill.com/penn.pdf . What are most people getting paid or comped to
display their aircraft at a show. I would welcome any suggestions.
rob
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Air compressors |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Selby" <alikatz@mbay.net>
Thanks
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air compressors
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>
> Jim, can't attach photos on the list. Gotta go off list.
>
> Doug Sapp
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Selby" <alikatz@mbay.net>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air compressors
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Selby" <alikatz@mbay.net>
> >
> > Don,
> > Here are more photos on the Pumps.
> >
> > Jim
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Don Boardman" <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Yak-List: Air compressors
> >
> >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Don Boardman <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
> > >
> > >
> > > More infor is welcome.
> > > Yes, send me a photo of your units.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Don B.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | ak-List:air show compensation |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mike McCoy" <mike@aircraftsales.com>
Rob,
Almost all of the warbirds that I know of here in Ohio won't go to a show
for static display unless they get at least $500 per weekend plus fuel,
hotel, car, food, etc. When I first got my CJ many years ago, the local T-6
guys came to me and asked me not to go to these airshows for free. They
were getting paid for the shows and wanted to let me know that I should be
getting paid also.
Airshows are BIG business. Before 911, they were the number 2 spectator
event behind baseball. I don't know if that is still true, but the point is
that airshows are big business and the airshow promotors are making a lot of
money for putting on the shows.
If you think about the airshow from a business standpoint, the airshow
promoter is the owner. The owner takes all the risk and makes a good profit
if everything goes right (weather, attendance, etc). Although making a
profit is obviously not looked upon with favor by many members of this list,
this is still the reality. Airshows are a business. The crowd attends the
show to see the planes, and therefore the planes (and flying) are the
service that is being sold. The pilots (airplane owners) that attend the
show are the employees and certainly are getting paid for providing the
service. The fact that there are a few people taking their airplanes for
free just shows that the airshow promotor is trying to maximize his profit
(as well he should). In fact, I have frequently been at airshows for static
display where my CJ was parked next to other CJs. At the very same show, I
was being paid $500 plus fuel, hotel, car, food, etc, and was invited to the
performer's party and other functions. The other CJ owners were getting
paid nothing for the show and were paying for their own fuel, hotel, rental
car, etc. They were not invited to the performer's party or other
functions. Everyone in this airshow business should be making money. The
promoter will make the big money if the airshow is a success and the
airplane owner will make a reasonable amount of money for providing his
aircraft for display.
I don't mean to say that every show only pays $500 for static displays.
There are many shows that pay more than this. You should talk to other
professional warbird pilots and find out what they are getting paid BEFORE
talking to the airshow promoter if possible.
In addition to the obvious advantage of getting paid, you should consider
the tax advantages of getting paid for displaying your aircraft. If you own
a company that provides an aircraft for display (for the purpose of making a
profit), then your business expenses are tax deductible. You may be able to
have your airplane pay for itself under this scenario.
It is a hard decision for many on this list to make. You can go to airshows
and pay for the privilege of doing so, or you can get paid for going to
airshows and deduct your expenses as a bonus. Like I said, it's a tough
decision!
Don't get discouraged by the comments of those that do it for free. I have
sold CJ's to MANY pilots who are successfully doing exactly what I described
above. One of those pilots told me that his accountant said that using his
airplane as a business was the best thing he had ever done to improve his
tax situation. You won't be hearing from these people, because nany of
these successful people are too busy making money to spend every waking
minute typing on this list. Those that CAN - DO, those that CAN'T - Talk
on the Yak List.
Mike McCoy
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: e: Yak-List:air show |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 2/25/2003 9:22:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ernest.martinez@oracle.com writes:
> Jim,
>
> Can you clarify on the commercial ticket requirement. I was under the
> understanding that you only need a commercial ticket for either taking
> passengers, or doing commercial work like ag spraying or hauling mail etc.
> I
> didnt think parking your plane on a ramp and getting some pro-rata fuel was
> enough grounds for requiring a comercial ticket.
>
> Ernie
>
The FAA's view is that ANY compensation (a hotel room, fuel, oil, food, or a
car) requires a commercial ticket and a CURRENT 2nd class physical. At TICO
about 4 years ago, I saw the MCO FSDO start to site a private pilot, flying
in the show, for eating the sandwiches in the pilot briefing tent. He backed
off, when it was pointed out that all the volunteers (ramp rats and such)
were also allowed to eat there free also. The FAA does watch this fairly
close and in most briefings it is pointed out to the participating pilots.
OTOH If the show is for charity, you can deduct all your fuel, and oil cost
from your taxes. I'm quite sure if you can also deduct car, room, and food
while there.
Jim
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: e: Yak-List:air show compensation |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mike Plecenik" <nanchang@zipnet.us>
Whatever happened to the FAA reg. about Experimental aircraft not being
allowed to be used in any commercial endeavor nor allowed compensation for
use of that aircraft.? Has it been superceded? I need to know what you know.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: e: Yak-List:air show |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 2/26/2003 9:59:51 AM Eastern Standard Time,
cjpilot710@aol.com writes:
> OTOH If the show is for charity, you can deduct all your fuel, and oil cost
> from your taxes. I'm quite sure if you can also deduct car, room, and food
>
> while there.
>
>
This should read "I'm NOT quite sure if you can also deduct car, room, and
- - - - "
Jim
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: e: Yak-List:air show compensation |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 2/26/2003 10:09:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
nanchang@zipnet.us writes:
> Whatever happened to the FAA reg. about Experimental aircraft not being
> allowed to be used in any commercial endeavor nor allowed compensation for
> use of that aircraft.? Has it been superceded? I need to know what you
> know.
>
>
I think technically, if you charge a fee or receive monies that could be
construed as to pay off an airplane's lean, cover its insurance, or
maintenance cost, than it cannot be experimental. That "$500" fee is going
to the pilot technically. That is how they get around it.
Jim
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
Message 10
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Alan Cockrell <YakDriver@comcast.net>
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mike McCoy" <mike@aircraftsales.com>
I heard that there was another CJ accident in Florida over the last day or
two. Does anyone have the details?
I have a pool going on a couple of the weaker members our group and wondered
if it was time to collect my money!
Mike McCoy
I flew with a guy in my squadron in the Air Force who had an attitude just like
yours. He was the last guy anybody wanted flying their wing.
Alan Cockrell
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: e: Yak-List:air show compensation |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
If you dont like this list there are alternatives. Please try
http://www.darwinawards.com/
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike McCoy" <mike@aircraftsales.com>
Subject: Yak-List:air show compensation
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Mike McCoy" <mike@aircraftsales.com>
>
> Rob,
>
> Almost all of the warbirds that I know of here in Ohio won't go to a show
> for static display unless they get at least $500 per weekend plus fuel,
> hotel, car, food, etc. When I first got my CJ many years ago, the local
T-6
> guys came to me and asked me not to go to these airshows for free. They
> were getting paid for the shows and wanted to let me know that I should be
> getting paid also.
>
> Airshows are BIG business. Before 911, they were the number 2 spectator
> event behind baseball. I don't know if that is still true, but the point
is
> that airshows are big business and the airshow promotors are making a lot
of
> money for putting on the shows.
>
> If you think about the airshow from a business standpoint, the airshow
> promoter is the owner. The owner takes all the risk and makes a good
profit
> if everything goes right (weather, attendance, etc). Although making a
> profit is obviously not looked upon with favor by many members of this
list,
> this is still the reality. Airshows are a business. The crowd attends
the
> show to see the planes, and therefore the planes (and flying) are the
> service that is being sold. The pilots (airplane owners) that attend the
> show are the employees and certainly are getting paid for providing the
> service. The fact that there are a few people taking their airplanes for
> free just shows that the airshow promotor is trying to maximize his profit
> (as well he should). In fact, I have frequently been at airshows for
static
> display where my CJ was parked next to other CJs. At the very same show,
I
> was being paid $500 plus fuel, hotel, car, food, etc, and was invited to
the
> performer's party and other functions. The other CJ owners were getting
> paid nothing for the show and were paying for their own fuel, hotel,
rental
> car, etc. They were not invited to the performer's party or other
> functions. Everyone in this airshow business should be making money. The
> promoter will make the big money if the airshow is a success and the
> airplane owner will make a reasonable amount of money for providing his
> aircraft for display.
>
> I don't mean to say that every show only pays $500 for static displays.
> There are many shows that pay more than this. You should talk to other
> professional warbird pilots and find out what they are getting paid BEFORE
> talking to the airshow promoter if possible.
>
> In addition to the obvious advantage of getting paid, you should consider
> the tax advantages of getting paid for displaying your aircraft. If you
own
> a company that provides an aircraft for display (for the purpose of making
a
> profit), then your business expenses are tax deductible. You may be able
to
> have your airplane pay for itself under this scenario.
>
> It is a hard decision for many on this list to make. You can go to
airshows
> and pay for the privilege of doing so, or you can get paid for going to
> airshows and deduct your expenses as a bonus. Like I said, it's a tough
> decision!
>
> Don't get discouraged by the comments of those that do it for free. I
have
> sold CJ's to MANY pilots who are successfully doing exactly what I
described
> above. One of those pilots told me that his accountant said that using
his
> airplane as a business was the best thing he had ever done to improve his
> tax situation. You won't be hearing from these people, because nany of
> these successful people are too busy making money to spend every waking
> minute typing on this list. Those that CAN - DO, those that CAN'T - Talk
> on the Yak List.
>
> Mike McCoy
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: e: Yak-List:air show compensation |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mike McCoy" <mike@aircraftsales.com>
> I think technically, if you charge a fee or receive monies that could be
> construed as to pay off an airplane's lean, cover its insurance, or
> maintenance cost, than it cannot be experimental. That "$500" fee is
going
> to the pilot technically. That is how they get around it.
This is just plain wrong. FAR 91.39 says "No person may operate an aircraft
that has an experimental certificate... carrying persons or property for
compensation or hire." Provided that your operating limitations don't
prohibit it, you absolutely CAN use an experimental aircraft for
compensation for static display, flying airshows, movie productions, etc.
Mike McCoy
Message 13
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@mc.net
I have noticed an airshow trend in the last few years in the area where I live:
cash compensation for ancillary players, as in
those not covered under contract for a performance. Other trend consists of all
fuel being billed to a single account, lunch
and dinner tickets/buttons handed out to key volunteers, performers, and guests
rather than being logged on a "list" for
the FAA.
Another trend, and a negative one, is the local FSDO maintenance guys want all
kinds of paperwork on the aircraft,
including details that have no relevance for a static display. One of our 'listers
got busted for his parachute being out
of pack date....even though he had no actual need for a 'chute, as he was NOT flying
formation or aerobatics. More
than one pilot has walked away from briefings when this stuff started.
My compensation? Don't ask and I won't tell.
Craig Payne
Message 14
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| Subject: | Updated parts list |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Folks,
The 2003 parts list is completed and available to anyone who contacts me off
line.
Always yakin,
Doug Sapp
Message 15
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| Subject: | E: Yak-List:air show |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Yakkers.......
As regards air shows and compensation:
I think that flying for money or compensation is a commercial activity.
But then NOTHING has been said about static displays. Personally, I'm
going to charge what the market will bear when I do a static display of
my plane. The flying part I'll do for free because to charge for it
would be a commercial related FLYING activity. The FAA has little
jurisdiction over static display aircraft at air shows. It is not
illegal charge the air show operators or get your free gas for the
static display of your airplane!
Frank
N911OM
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: e: Yak-List:air show |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
I agree......I'm not using my plane for hire, they're paying for ME to be
there, what I decide to use for transportation is my business, and if people
like to come and look at my airplane, then fine..
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Yak-List:air show
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
<yak52driver@earthlink.net>
>
> Yakkers.......
> As regards air shows and compensation:
>
> I think that flying for money or compensation is a commercial activity.
> But then NOTHING has been said about static displays. Personally, I'm
> going to charge what the market will bear when I do a static display of
> my plane. The flying part I'll do for free because to charge for it
> would be a commercial related FLYING activity. The FAA has little
> jurisdiction over static display aircraft at air shows. It is not
> illegal charge the air show operators or get your free gas for the
> static display of your airplane!
>
> Frank
> N911OM
>
>
Message 17
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
Jim can you send some to me as well.
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Selby
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air compressors
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Selby" <alikatz@mbay.net>
Don,
Here are more photos on the Pumps.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Boardman" <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Air compressors
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Don Boardman <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
>
>
> More infor is welcome.
> Yes, send me a photo of your units.
>
> Regards,
> Don B.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: e: Yak-List:air show |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
I'd like to challenge you on that Frank. But before I jump out there with
both feet and get my head chopped off, I'm going to address the question to
an aviation attorney whom I know very well and see what his opinion is since
he's dealt with similar FAA enforcement situations in the past. This of
course assumes no commercial ticket. With a commercial ticket and current
2nd class medical, it's a mute point.
Dennis Savarese
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Yak-List:air show
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
<yak52driver@earthlink.net>
>
> Yakkers.......
> As regards air shows and compensation:
>
> I think that flying for money or compensation is a commercial activity.
> But then NOTHING has been said about static displays. Personally, I'm
> going to charge what the market will bear when I do a static display of
> my plane. The flying part I'll do for free because to charge for it
> would be a commercial related FLYING activity. The FAA has little
> jurisdiction over static display aircraft at air shows. It is not
> illegal charge the air show operators or get your free gas for the
> static display of your airplane!
>
> Frank
> N911OM
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: e: Yak-List:air show |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Craig Payne <cpayne@mc.net>
Wishful thinking guys but you will be dealing with the FAA, not
rational, thinking persons. That's why cold cash is swapping hands
rather than checks.
Craig Payne
Ernie wrote:
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
>
> I agree......I'm not using my plane for hire, they're paying for ME to be
> there, what I decide to use for transportation is my business, and if people
> like to come and look at my airplane, then fine..
>
> Ernie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List:air show
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
> <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
> >
> > Yakkers.......
> > As regards air shows and compensation:
> >
> > I think that flying for money or compensation is a commercial activity.
> > But then NOTHING has been said about static displays. Personally, I'm
> > going to charge what the market will bear when I do a static display of
> > my plane. The flying part I'll do for free because to charge for it
> > would be a commercial related FLYING activity. The FAA has little
> > jurisdiction over static display aircraft at air shows. It is not
> > illegal charge the air show operators or get your free gas for the
> > static display of your airplane!
> >
> > Frank
> > N911OM
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: e: Yak-List:air show |
--> Yak-List message posted by: EyeBLS@aol.com
The prohibition of commercial activity for experimental aircraft is carrying
passengers or cargo for compensation or hire. Flying in an airshow is not
prohibited. A group from Deer Valley flew at the Yuma Air Show. We received
compensation.
Several air show pilots flew acrobatic acts in experimental aircraft.
(Actually all the acro acts used experimental aircraft.) The Feds were there
and checked all the paperwork. No problems. The only problem comes when you
have only a private license or a class three medical.
eyeballs
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: e: Yak-List:air show |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
>
> I'd like to challenge you on that Frank. But before I jump out there with
> both feet and get my head chopped off, I'm going to address the question to
> an aviation attorney whom I know very well and see what his opinion is since
> he's dealt with similar FAA enforcement situations in the past. This of
> course assumes no commercial ticket. With a commercial ticket and current
> 2nd class medical, it's a moot point.
The problem is that, unless you are an airshow performer, you probably aren't
getting enough money from the airshow folks to make a living out of going. It
just reduces the cost so that showing up doesn't hurt so much and you probably
would show up anyway because you want to look at the other airplanes and talk
with like-minded people. So that says it sure as heck is not an
economically-viable enterprise so it really isn't commercial.
But the FAA doesn't look at it that way. They cannot depend on common sense to
make the decision so they have to have rules. Common sense works this way,
"Let's see, you met them at the airport, you flew to the place they wanted to
go, you waited there for them, then returned. They paid you for your time and
the operating cost of your airplane so you ended up with $300 in your pocket at
the end of the day. Yup, smells commercial to me." And then there is this
scenario, "You got in your airplane to go to an airshow you wanted to attend.
You got half the fuel you needed to get there and back and you got a couple of
slices of pizza and a coke. You hung around all day to talk with other airplane
enthusiasts and then flew home. You lost money on the deal but you had a good
time. Doesn't smell very commercially viable to me."
But the FAA doesn't have people working that way. They have a huge book of
rules to test by and many of those rules are pretty stupid. Giving some guy a
sandwich or a slice of pizza doesn't sound like commercial compensation to me
but it does have some value so there is a technical transfer of goods with
value. If you really want to be literal it could be construed as commercial if
you aren't too rational. The amazing thing is that there are people in the FAA
who *really* *care* about this kind of piddly stuff. And what galls me more is
that *I* am paying them to do it through my taxes.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: e: Yak-List:air show compensation |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Richard Basiliere" <BasiliereR@ci.boulder.co.us>
Mike; I have NEVER heard of and FAR that reads as you state. I have
given dual instruction since 1996 with my Russian a/c (Yak-52, SU-29)
for compensation with the full knowledge and blessing of the DEN FSDO.
So if you can site FAR on this I would be very interested i.e that
Experimental/Exhibition aircraft are precluded from doing anything
except carrying a person for HIRE. Thanks and Respectfully; Rick
>>> nanchang@zipnet.us 02/26/03 08:07AM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mike Plecenik" <nanchang@zipnet.us>
Whatever happened to the FAA reg. about Experimental aircraft not
being
allowed to be used in any commercial endeavor nor allowed compensation
for
use of that aircraft.? Has it been superceded? I need to know what you
know.
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