Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:25 AM - Re: Tyndall AFB airshow. (Ernie)
2. 11:25 AM - Re: air show (Ernie)
3. 11:34 AM - Re: Tyndall AFB airshow. (Ernie)
4. 12:29 PM - Re: Tyndall AFB airshow. (KingCJ6@aol.com)
5. 08:02 PM - Tyndall AFB (cjpilot710@aol.com)
6. 09:27 PM - Air Speed Indicator Range Markings (General Equipment Company)
7. 11:05 PM - Re: air show compensation (jackron@att.net)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Tyndall AFB airshow. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Ok Jim
So did we just get NOT invited to the airshow??????
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: <cjpilot710@aol.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Tyndall AFB airshow.
> --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
>
> Florida fliers,
>
> Please note the USAF people have limited the number and type of aircraft
to
> attend the show on March 21,22,23.
> However u's guys can't go. Me, however? Well, if war brakes out between
now
> and than, the show WILL be canceled, and I won't go either.
>
> I am not an anti-war protester.
>
> Jim
>
> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
> deserve neither liberty nor safety"
> Benjamin Franklin 1759
> "With my shield, or on it"
> Trojan Warriors BC
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: e: Yak-List:air show |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
You're missing the point....go to the airshow and display your airplane,
just dont take money. What you're saying makes perfect sence, but it may not
be the case. Take parachutes for instance....if I was parked, not engaged in
flying, and I got ramp checked and my chutes were out of date, I could be
summoned. I wasnt flying the airplane, I was just sitting in it.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Yak-List:air show
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
<yak52driver@earthlink.net>
>
> Jon;
> Interesting reply. My answer to that is to ask if the FAA allows you to
> attend air shows with your "EXPERIMENTAL EXHIBITION" as a private pilot?
> Why of course the answer is YES. The FAA allows me to use my
> "EXPERIMENTAL" for "EXHIBITION"! Just look at my operating limitations
> as issued by the FAA and the program letter I must submit each year. It
> is obvious that I have the permission of the FAA to attend the listed
> air shows or fly-ins. You may, indeed, attend with your experimental
> aircraft and use it for "EXHIBITION"......that is clear enough. BUT, I
> am clearly prohibited from engaging in "FLYING" activities that are
> commercial. What you do once you LAND your aircraft is up to you. Hell,
> I could hire a wreaking ball to have my plane crushed as part of the air
> show and charge people to see the "EXHIBITION"........if I want. It's
> totally up to me. What is the FAA going to do if I use a wreaking ball
> to crush my airplane during the air show? Does it affect the SAFETY OF
> FLIGHT" for commercial purposes? Does it endanger any persons engaged in
> flying for compensation or hire? I hardly think so. With a static
> display model, once on the ground, I can do anything I want with it!
> It's all in how you look at it.
>
> Frank
> N911OM
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Boede
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List:air show
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@zoso.email.net>
>
> Frank... what you say makes perfect sense; unfortunately, *that* has
> nothing to do with it. :-)
>
> Unless you trailered your aircraft to the show on a flatbed truck,
> you're going to find that the FAA considers your taking gas, money, a
> hotel room, or "pilots only" hotdogs to be "compensation" for FLYING
> there and if you just have a private ticket, or don't have a current
> Class II medical -- you could very easily find yourself on the receiving
> end of an enforcement action by the FAA. And, statistically, they win
> 98% of those.
>
> Have fun rolling the dice... but, uh, _you asked_ and, uhhhh, "we told
> you so". :-)
>
> Jon
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
> > <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
> >
> >
> > Eyeballs, Brian
> >
> > Look........I don't charge for flying to the air show, I don't charge
> > for the aerobatic sequences or formation flying I do. If it relates in
>
> > any way to actual flying I don't charge for it. Do you thus agree that
>
> > I am not engaged in a commercial "flying" activity?
> >
> > So then, what is wrong with charging for a "STATIC DISPLAY" model?
> >
> > Answer.......NOTHING
> >
> > Frank
> > N911OM
>
>
> direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Tyndall AFB airshow. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Jim,
Are you going to Tyco??
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Tyndall AFB airshow.
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
>
> Ok Jim
>
> So did we just get NOT invited to the airshow??????
>
> Ernie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <cjpilot710@aol.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Tyndall AFB airshow.
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
> >
> > Florida fliers,
> >
> > Please note the USAF people have limited the number and type of aircraft
> to
> > attend the show on March 21,22,23.
> > However u's guys can't go. Me, however? Well, if war brakes out
between
> now
> > and than, the show WILL be canceled, and I won't go either.
> >
> > I am not an anti-war protester.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
> > deserve neither liberty nor safety"
> > Benjamin Franklin 1759
> > "With my shield, or on it"
> > Trojan Warriors BC
> >
> >
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Tyndall AFB airshow. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: KingCJ6@aol.com
To save us all bandwidth and to make e-mail management easier, consider
sending or replying to e-mails that are directed only to one individual just
to them, not the entire yak list. When you hit "reply" it sends your message
to the complete list.
An example would be "...Bob, care to meet Saturday for a flight & burger?".
While most of us are pleased you and Bob may get together, it takes time to
open, read and delete these personal messages.
Thanks, Dave
In a message dated 2/28/2003 11:36:21 AM Pacific Standard Time,
ernest.martinez@oracle.com writes:
> Subj:Re: Yak-List: Tyndall AFB airshow.
> Date:2/28/2003 11:36:21 AM Pacific Standard Time
> From:<A HREF="mailto:ernest.martinez@oracle.com">ernest.martinez@oracle.com
> Reply-to:<A HREF="mailto:yak-list@matronics.com">yak-list@matronics.com
> To:<A HREF="mailto:yak-list@matronics.com">yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent from the Internet
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
>
> Jim,
>
> Are you going to Tyco??
>
> Ernie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Tyndall AFB airshow
Message 5
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
Florida flyers,
The Tyndall AFB show was very iffy because of the Gulf stuff going on. My
contact was though my CAF HMFIC. Anyway the AF contact kind of peeved him,
he (CAF) just canceled us all. I don't know all the details but I now have
that week end free. I do believe there is something happening at Punta Gordo
that same weekend. Hopefully I'll have my mags fixed by than.
Jim
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
Message 6
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| Subject: | Air Speed Indicator Range Markings |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "General Equipment Company" <general@generalequip.com>
I am in the process of installing two new air speed indicators in my CJ. Even with
all the written data and postings in front of me, I have not been able to
determine if a yellow (caution) speed range was ever established. White (flap)
range, yes. Max gear extension speed, yes. Green (operational), yes. Yellow,
no. Red (Never exceed), yes. Does anyone have any further information? Thanks.
Dennis Von Ruden
general@generalequip.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: e: Yak-List:air show compensation |
--> Yak-List message posted by: jackron@att.net
Mike,
Again, you paint with too wide a brush. I admit I don't know how they do it in
Ohio, or anywhere else for that matter, but I can tell you that not all
airshows are big business. Every two years we put on an airshow here in
Juneau. There are about 15 of us that work our tails off, without any
compansation. We have raffles, accept donations from local hotels, rental
cars, etc. We don't pay anybody anything. We give them a room, a car and some
gas. We had over 100 airplanes at our last show including the Snowbirds. We
had t-28s, T-6s, A military Goose, a AN-2, my CJ, etc, etc. Everybody had a
great time. It's not always about money. There are some great prople in the
warbird community, and the aviation community as a whole. Most of them are
generous to a fault, thank goodness!!
Ron Swanson
--
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Mike McCoy" <mike@aircraftsales.com>
>
> Rob,
>
> Almost all of the warbirds that I know of here in Ohio won't go to a show
> for static display unless they get at least $500 per weekend plus fuel,
> hotel, car, food, etc. When I first got my CJ many years ago, the local T-6
> guys came to me and asked me not to go to these airshows for free. They
> were getting paid for the shows and wanted to let me know that I should be
> getting paid also.
>
> Airshows are BIG business. Before 911, they were the number 2 spectator
> event behind baseball. I don't know if that is still true, but the point is
> that airshows are big business and the airshow promotors are making a lot of
> money for putting on the shows.
>
> If you think about the airshow from a business standpoint, the airshow
> promoter is the owner. The owner takes all the risk and makes a good profit
> if everything goes right (weather, attendance, etc). Although making a
> profit is obviously not looked upon with favor by many members of this list,
> this is still the reality. Airshows are a business. The crowd attends the
> show to see the planes, and therefore the planes (and flying) are the
> service that is being sold. The pilots (airplane owners) that attend the
> show are the employees and certainly are getting paid for providing the
> service. The fact that there are a few people taking their airplanes for
> free just shows that the airshow promotor is trying to maximize his profit
> (as well he should). In fact, I have frequently been at airshows for static
> display where my CJ was parked next to other CJs. At the very same show, I
> was being paid $500 plus fuel, hotel, car, food, etc, and was invited to the
> performer's party and other functions. The other CJ owners were getting
> paid nothing for the show and were paying for their own fuel, hotel, rental
> car, etc. They were not invited to the performer's party or other
> functions. Everyone in this airshow business should be making money. The
> promoter will make the big money if the airshow is a success and the
> airplane owner will make a reasonable amount of money for providing his
> aircraft for display.
>
> I don't mean to say that every show only pays $500 for static displays.
> There are many shows that pay more than this. You should talk to other
> professional warbird pilots and find out what they are getting paid BEFORE
> talking to the airshow promoter if possible.
>
> In addition to the obvious advantage of getting paid, you should consider
> the tax advantages of getting paid for displaying your aircraft. If you own
> a company that provides an aircraft for display (for the purpose of making a
> profit), then your business expenses are tax deductible. You may be able to
> have your airplane pay for itself under this scenario.
>
> It is a hard decision for many on this list to make. You can go to airshows
> and pay for the privilege of doing so, or you can get paid for going to
> airshows and deduct your expenses as a bonus. Like I said, it's a tough
> decision!
>
> Don't get discouraged by the comments of those that do it for free. I have
> sold CJ's to MANY pilots who are successfully doing exactly what I described
> above. One of those pilots told me that his accountant said that using his
> airplane as a business was the best thing he had ever done to improve his
> tax situation. You won't be hearing from these people, because nany of
> these successful people are too busy making money to spend every waking
> minute typing on this list. Those that CAN - DO, those that CAN'T - Talk
> on the Yak List.
>
> Mike McCoy
>
>
>
>
>
>
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