Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:30 AM - New yak-website Available! (robert de vries)
2. 04:42 AM - Welcome (cjpilot710@aol.com)
3. 07:31 AM - Re: DefendAmerica News - Thanks for signing America's T (Petri, David S. CDR NNSOC)
4. 08:22 AM - OSH House - hand off (Barry Hancock)
5. 08:28 AM - OSH House - hand off (Barry Hancock)
6. 08:31 AM - OSH House - hand off (Barry Hancock)
7. 08:32 AM - OSH House - hand off (Barry Hancock)
8. 08:33 AM - OSH House - hand off (Barry Hancock)
9. 09:07 AM - SeaFest + S&F (cjpilot710@aol.com)
10. 04:59 PM - Re: External power adapter (Jim Shanks)
11. 05:32 PM - Re: External power adapter (cjpilot710@aol.com)
12. 05:37 PM - Re: External power adapter (FOUGAPILOT@aol.com)
13. 06:03 PM - Re: External power adapter (Jim Shanks)
14. 06:55 PM - Re: External power adapter (Jim Griffin)
15. 07:09 PM - Things that go "boom" in the night (Walt Fricke)
16. 07:10 PM - Re: External power adapter (Craig Payne)
17. 07:18 PM - Spinner on stock CJ6A (Brian Lloyd)
18. 07:48 PM - Re: External power adapter (Jim Griffin)
19. 07:53 PM - Re: External power adapter (cjpilot710@aol.com)
20. 07:58 PM - Re: Spinner on stock CJ6A (cjpilot710@aol.com)
21. 08:34 PM - Tach problem (Gus Fraser)
22. 09:56 PM - Re: Welcome (D Zeman)
Message 1
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| Subject: | New yak-website Available! |
--> Yak-List message posted by: robert de vries <redyak52@compuserve.com>
Hello Yakkers!
With a little help I finally build a website for my 'Redyak52'.
It is a non-commercial/entertainment only site.
Also targeted at airshow display directors/commentators to get some info on
Yak-52's and me flying displays.
In case you did not already find it on the net;here is the url:
http://home.hccnet.nl/g.vander.maas/redyak52/
I hope ya'll enjoy the site and I am looking forward to suggestions to
improve it.
The site was build 'lean' to keep fast download speeds possible for the 56k
modem users (the vast majority of this world & laptoppers)
If you recognise you own stuff: indeed I 'stole' some pick's and text from
existing site's to build my site.
Again, suggestions are welcome indeed!!
From the 'old country'
Robert de Vries
Holland
Message 2
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 3/10/2003 11:18:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,
aircraftmanager@msn.com writes:
> appreciated. Be gentle..lol
>
> Mark Morgan, a new Yak daddy.
>
>
Welcome aboard Mark! You should bought a CJ. ;-]
Jim
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
Message 3
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| Subject: | DefendAmerica News - Thanks for signing America's T |
hank-you note!
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Petri, David S. CDR NNSOC" <David.Petri@ARSPACE.ARMY.MIL>
I'm currently trying to do the same thing with our chapter here in Colorado
Springs. We have have a rather large population of personnel deployed from
our local area.
Cheers,
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Gus Fraser [mailto:fraseg@comcast.net]
Subject: RE: Yak-List: DefendAmerica News - Thanks for signing America's
Thank-you note!
--> Yak-List message posted by: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
Ernie,
I have suggested to EAA that they organize some national young eagles
sessions specifically aimed at the children of those serving abroad. I was
very upset to hear that these children have been getting picked on at school
because their parent are not around. What does the group think about this as
an idea.
Gus
Message 4
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| Subject: | OSH House - hand off |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
Gang,
There has not been enough interest in the OSH house to make it viable(it
is a deal if you can get 8-10 people, but my urgings only produced 3
commits). I'd love to just commit to it and pick up whatever is not
covered but I'm not in a position to do so. That being said, I'm going
to turn the house over to whom ever wants to volunteer to head up the
effort. Please contact me off list and I will give you the contact info
for the house. It is my hope that someone can drum up enough people to
keep the house as the hosts are very nice people, it's a nice place and
a good location.
Cheers,
Barry
Barry Hancock
Red Stars, Inc.
949.300.5510
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
Message 5
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| Subject: | OSH House - hand off |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
Gang,
There has not been enough interest in the OSH house to make it viable(it
is a deal if you can get 8-10 people, but my urgings only produced 3
commits). I'd love to just commit to it and pick up whatever is not
covered but I'm not in a position to do so. That being said, I'm going
to turn the house over to whom ever wants to volunteer to head up the
effort. Please contact me off list and I will give you the contact info
for the house. It is my hope that someone can drum up enough people to
keep the house as the hosts are very nice people, it's a nice place and
a good location.
Cheers,
Barry
Barry Hancock
Red Stars, Inc.
949.300.5510
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
Message 6
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| Subject: | OSH House - hand off |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
Gang,
There has not been enough interest in the OSH house to make it viable(it
is a deal if you can get 8-10 people, but my urgings only produced 3
commits). I'd love to just commit to it and pick up whatever is not
covered but I'm not in a position to do so. That being said, I'm going
to turn the house over to whom ever wants to volunteer to head up the
effort. Please contact me off list and I will give you the contact info
for the house. It is my hope that someone can drum up enough people to
keep the house as the hosts are very nice people, it's a nice place and
a good location.
Cheers,
Barry
Barry Hancock
Red Stars, Inc.
949.300.5510
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
Message 7
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| Subject: | OSH House - hand off |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
Gang,
There has not been enough interest in the OSH house to make it viable(it
is a deal if you can get 8-10 people, but my urgings only produced 3
commits). I'd love to just commit to it and pick up whatever is not
covered but I'm not in a position to do so. That being said, I'm going
to turn the house over to whom ever wants to volunteer to head up the
effort. Please contact me off list and I will give you the contact info
for the house. It is my hope that someone can drum up enough people to
keep the house as the hosts are very nice people, it's a nice place and
a good location.
Cheers,
Barry
Barry Hancock
Red Stars, Inc.
949.300.5510
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
Message 8
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| Subject: | OSH House - hand off |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
Gang,
There has not been enough interest in the OSH house to make it viable(it
is a deal if you can get 8-10 people, but my urgings only produced 3
commits). I'd love to just commit to it and pick up whatever is not
covered but I'm not in a position to do so. That being said, I'm going
to turn the house over to whom ever wants to volunteer to head up the
effort. Please contact me off list and I will give you the contact info
for the house. It is my hope that someone can drum up enough people to
keep the house as the hosts are very nice people, it's a nice place and
a good location.
Cheers,
Barry
Barry Hancock
Red Stars, Inc.
949.300.5510
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
Message 9
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
Florida Flyers,
So far I have a 3 ship formation for SeaFest on the 29th. Looking for more
airplanes.
Plan so far is to meet at either TIX or Merrit Island, fly the sortie around
1700L (very short), and depart home.
Contact me off list please.
S&F:
Just checked with HoJos about rooms. We have 20 reservations on the books.
The hotel informed me that they are sold out for April 4th, they have open
rooms on all other days. Remember, March 15th ( 4 days ) is the cut off day
for the discount ($69./nite).
Howard Johnson Winter Heaven, Fl. 863-294-7321 ask for Sandy (day time) and
book under "YPA" or "Yak Pilots Association".
Jim
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: External power adapter |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Shanks" <shankeroid@attbi.com>
Thanks again for the info, Doug. Two questions about props:
1. Is there a 3-bladed prop made for the Housai Engine?
2. If not, who makes a spinner for the standard 2-bladed prop?
I have not seen a picture of a CJ with either of the above. Thanks again.
Jim Shanks shankeroid@attbi.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: External power adapter
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>
> Jim,
> I built one from scratch on my lathe, used a chunk of hard black plastic
> that I had bought at a Boeing surplus center, made the contacts out of
> brass, soldered 2-- 8 foot welder leads into it, attached 2 battery clamps
> and it works great! But the down side was that if you count my lathe time
> as worth even 25 bucks an hour, I have about 200 bucks into it plus the
> clamps and cables which cost me another $45.00. The four or five trips to
> town chasing parts are not considered!! After doing it I think that if
I
> had it to do again I would buy a common (Cessna or Beech or Piper) one
that
> had the correct contactor size and make only the plug in portion on the
> lathe, it would me much easier.---and quicker.
>
> Good luck,
> Doug
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Shanks" <shankeroid@attbi.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: External power adapter
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Shanks" <shankeroid@attbi.com>
> >
> > Hi Yakheads,
> > I'm a new guy that just bought into a 4-way partnership on a '67
CJ-6
> based out of Roanoke, Texas. Heckuva airplane, flies a lot like the T-34
> from my Navy days, but sure is different in every other way. I'm getting
> lots smarter thanks to this forum.
> > First of many questions: Does there exist an adapter to mate the
> electrical power receptacle on the CJ with a standard power cord on the
> typical external power carts found at most FBO's? If so, what is the
> step-by-step procedure for hooking up external power to run the electrics?
> I am mainly concerned with powering the aux air compressor on the ground
in
> the event of low or no air.
> > Thanks and looking forward to chattin with you all.
> >
> > Jim Shanks
> > shankeroid@attbi.com
> >
> >
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: External power adapter |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 3/11/2003 8:00:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,
shankeroid@attbi.com writes:
>
>
> Thanks again for the info, Doug. Two questions about props:
>
> 1. Is there a 3-bladed prop made for the Housai Engine?
> 2. If not, who makes a spinner for the standard 2-bladed prop?
>
> I have not seen a picture of a CJ with either of the above. Thanks again.
>
> Jim Shanks shankeroid@attbi.com
>
There is a 3 bladed prop for the Housai, however I believe it is still in the
testing stage. Part of the CJ-6G advertisement from the Eaglet
Aero-Technology Inc. offered one as an add on I think. I'm not sure if it
had been tested or already approved. Hal Morley may know more about it than
I at this point.
I've never seen a spinner for the standard 2 bladed prop. The Housai has a
spline shaft which makes adding spinner a little more difficult.
Jim
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: External power adapter |
--> Yak-List message posted by: FOUGAPILOT@aol.com
Last summer at OSH, Victoria air maintenance had a 3-bladed prop for sale for
a standard CJ. If my memory serves me right, it was approved for the 285hp.
Dan
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: External power adapter |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Shanks" <shankeroid@attbi.com>
I wonder why this isn't a more popular upgrade - all the 3-bladed props
I see on the 'Chang are with the M-14 conversion. Anyone out there have a
3-bladed prop on their Chinese motor?
----- Original Message -----
From: <FOUGAPILOT@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: External power adapter
> --> Yak-List message posted by: FOUGAPILOT@aol.com
>
> Last summer at OSH, Victoria air maintenance had a 3-bladed prop for sale
for
> a standard CJ. If my memory serves me right, it was approved for the
285hp.
>
> Dan
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: External power adapter |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Griffin" <jgriffint28@cox.net>
I have a spinner on my 2 blade prop on a Housai engine.My CJ was built by
Steve Culp. He had a cut down P-51 spinner adapted to it. Engine temps are
good Winter and Summer and it will cruise at about 155 knots. I am not sure
but I believe it was Nelson Ezell that made the spinner.
I am very happy with it.
Jim Griffin
CJ6-A 273SC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Shanks" <shankeroid@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: External power adapter
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Shanks" <shankeroid@attbi.com>
>
> Thanks again for the info, Doug. Two questions about props:
>
> 1. Is there a 3-bladed prop made for the Housai Engine?
> 2. If not, who makes a spinner for the standard 2-bladed prop?
>
> I have not seen a picture of a CJ with either of the above. Thanks again.
>
> Jim Shanks shankeroid@attbi.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: External power adapter
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
> >
> > Jim,
> > I built one from scratch on my lathe, used a chunk of hard black plastic
> > that I had bought at a Boeing surplus center, made the contacts out of
> > brass, soldered 2-- 8 foot welder leads into it, attached 2 battery
clamps
> > and it works great! But the down side was that if you count my lathe
time
> > as worth even 25 bucks an hour, I have about 200 bucks into it plus the
> > clamps and cables which cost me another $45.00. The four or five trips
to
> > town chasing parts are not considered!! After doing it I think that
if
> I
> > had it to do again I would buy a common (Cessna or Beech or Piper) one
> that
> > had the correct contactor size and make only the plug in portion on the
> > lathe, it would me much easier.---and quicker.
> >
> > Good luck,
> > Doug
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jim Shanks" <shankeroid@attbi.com>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Yak-List: External power adapter
> >
> >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Shanks" <shankeroid@attbi.com>
> > >
> > > Hi Yakheads,
> > > I'm a new guy that just bought into a 4-way partnership on a '67
> CJ-6
> > based out of Roanoke, Texas. Heckuva airplane, flies a lot like the
T-34
> > from my Navy days, but sure is different in every other way. I'm
getting
> > lots smarter thanks to this forum.
> > > First of many questions: Does there exist an adapter to mate the
> > electrical power receptacle on the CJ with a standard power cord on the
> > typical external power carts found at most FBO's? If so, what is the
> > step-by-step procedure for hooking up external power to run the
electrics?
> > I am mainly concerned with powering the aux air compressor on the ground
> in
> > the event of low or no air.
> > > Thanks and looking forward to chattin with you all.
> > >
> > > Jim Shanks
> > > shankeroid@attbi.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Things that go "boom" in the night |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Walt Fricke <walterfricke@yahoo.com>
France announced today that it plans to ban fireworks
at Euro Disney,
following last night's display that caused soldiers at
a nearby French army garrison
to surrender.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: External power adapter |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Craig Payne <cpayne@mc.net>
Jim,
I'm sure the answer to that is obvious; why would anyone invest in a
3-blade for a 285 Huosai? The 400HP chinese engine, sure, the 360/400HP
Russian engines, OK.
BTW, there was/is a spinner for the 2-bladed prop; a very large metal
job made for a while in Texas by Les Crowder. No longer being made but
one came up for sale last fall. Brian Lloyd had one on his CJ, looked
great but no shutters could be fitted.
Good Luck,
Craig Payne
Jim Shanks wrote:
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Shanks" <shankeroid@attbi.com>
>
> I wonder why this isn't a more popular upgrade - all the 3-bladed props
> I see on the 'Chang are with the M-14 conversion. Anyone out there have a
> 3-bladed prop on their Chinese motor?
>
===============================================================
Message 17
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| Subject: | Spinner on stock CJ6A |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
> I've never seen a spinner for the standard 2 bladed prop. The Housai has a
> spline shaft which makes adding spinner a little more difficult.
Jim, if you recall, my CJ6A had a spinner on the stock prop. I am not sure
where Fred Ihlenburg got it but Dennis Sanders told me they were made by an
outfit in Texas. Unfortunately, I forget the name of the company. It made the
airplane look good but it added no performance insofar as I could tell and I was
never completely comfortable with its balance. Still, it was on the stock
engine/prop combination and it did look good.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: External power adapter |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Griffin" <jgriffint28@cox.net>
Craig is right, it was Les Crowder that made the spinner that is on my
plane.
Jim G
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Griffin" <jgriffint28@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: External power adapter
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Griffin" <jgriffint28@cox.net>
>
> I have a spinner on my 2 blade prop on a Housai engine.My CJ was built by
> Steve Culp. He had a cut down P-51 spinner adapted to it. Engine temps are
> good Winter and Summer and it will cruise at about 155 knots. I am not
sure
> but I believe it was Nelson Ezell that made the spinner.
> I am very happy with it.
>
> Jim Griffin
> CJ6-A 273SC
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Shanks" <shankeroid@attbi.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: External power adapter
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Shanks" <shankeroid@attbi.com>
> >
> > Thanks again for the info, Doug. Two questions about props:
> >
> > 1. Is there a 3-bladed prop made for the Housai Engine?
> > 2. If not, who makes a spinner for the standard 2-bladed prop?
> >
> > I have not seen a picture of a CJ with either of the above. Thanks
again.
> >
> > Jim Shanks shankeroid@attbi.com
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: External power adapter
> >
> >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
> > >
> > > Jim,
> > > I built one from scratch on my lathe, used a chunk of hard black
plastic
> > > that I had bought at a Boeing surplus center, made the contacts out of
> > > brass, soldered 2-- 8 foot welder leads into it, attached 2 battery
> clamps
> > > and it works great! But the down side was that if you count my lathe
> time
> > > as worth even 25 bucks an hour, I have about 200 bucks into it plus
the
> > > clamps and cables which cost me another $45.00. The four or five
trips
> to
> > > town chasing parts are not considered!! After doing it I think that
> if
> > I
> > > had it to do again I would buy a common (Cessna or Beech or Piper) one
> > that
> > > had the correct contactor size and make only the plug in portion on
the
> > > lathe, it would me much easier.---and quicker.
> > >
> > > Good luck,
> > > Doug
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Jim Shanks" <shankeroid@attbi.com>
> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Yak-List: External power adapter
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Shanks" <shankeroid@attbi.com>
> > > >
> > > > Hi Yakheads,
> > > > I'm a new guy that just bought into a 4-way partnership on a '67
> > CJ-6
> > > based out of Roanoke, Texas. Heckuva airplane, flies a lot like the
> T-34
> > > from my Navy days, but sure is different in every other way. I'm
> getting
> > > lots smarter thanks to this forum.
> > > > First of many questions: Does there exist an adapter to mate
the
> > > electrical power receptacle on the CJ with a standard power cord on
the
> > > typical external power carts found at most FBO's? If so, what is the
> > > step-by-step procedure for hooking up external power to run the
> electrics?
> > > I am mainly concerned with powering the aux air compressor on the
ground
> > in
> > > the event of low or no air.
> > > > Thanks and looking forward to chattin with you all.
> > > >
> > > > Jim Shanks
> > > > shankeroid@attbi.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: External power adapter |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 3/11/2003 9:56:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jgriffint28@cox.net writes:
> I have a spinner on my 2 blade prop on a Housai engine.My CJ was built by
> Steve Culp. He had a cut down P-51 spinner adapted to it. Engine temps are
> good Winter and Summer and it will cruise at about 155 knots. I am not sure
> but I believe it was Nelson Ezell that made the spinner.
> I am very happy with it.
>
> Jim Griffin
> CJ6-A 273SC
>
Jim,
How is it attached?
Jim
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Spinner on stock CJ6A |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 3/11/2003 10:19:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
brian@lloyd.com writes:
> Jim, if you recall, my CJ6A had a spinner on the stock prop. I am not sure
> where Fred Ihlenburg got it but Dennis Sanders told me they were made by an
> outfit in Texas. Unfortunately, I forget the name of the company. It made
> the
> airplane look good but it added no performance insofar as I could tell and
> I was
> never completely comfortable with its balance. Still, it was on the stock
> engine/prop combination and it did look good.
>
>
How could I forget the "Hose Nose"? I now remember that John Finley had one
on his too. I never did get a close look at how they were attached. I must
have had a 'senior moment'.
Jim Goolsby
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
Message 21
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
Well,
I checked out the aircraft and the coil in the tach was fine. I checked the
wiring back to the gauge from the engine and the resistance was fine. I
re-soldered the plug, no improvement. So, I pulled the generator. The shaft
that connects the accessory drive to the generator magnet was rotating in
the magnet so the shaft was rotating with the magnet standing still. It was
not obvious at first but if you spin the drive end fast there is a securing
nut inside that moves more slowly than the shaft. The symptoms for this was
a gradual failure over about half an hour. The first indication was that the
tach was pulsing. It would dip down about 20% once a second.
If you had a generator blow a coil I would be interested in getting hold of
it as the coil in mine is fine it is just mechanical in the other half.
If you have an old one please call me on 732 822 4807.
I will send pictures to the photoshare soon.
Gus Fraser
Message 22
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--> Yak-List message posted by: D Zeman <curious_wings@yahoo.com>
> Welcome aboard Mark! You should bought a CJ. ;-]
Yea, good one Jim. Nice way to start things off with a
new list member; stifle them from the start!
Because - really, new people on the list bring new
ideas and new ways of thinking - who needs that!
You should really think about running for a Yak
Pilot's Association (YPA) director position - oh, wait
a minute, no need. Glad you are there to help promote
Yaks and Yak similar aircraft!
Cheerio,
D. Zeman
BTW, I saw the winky, wink - no change.
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